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  #81  
Old 03-16-2017, 09:58 PM
Fürstin Taxis's Avatar
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Originally Posted by Stefan View Post
An interesting documentary about the Family from a few years ago
https://vimeo.com/87259683?ref=fb-share&1
Fantastic docu and I had to chuckle several times about Richards story times and language. He was a typical old, Westphalian man
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  #82  
Old 03-16-2017, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Hans-Rickard View Post
I thought the swedish King and Queen would attend Prince Richard's funeral but they are both busy on Tuesday. The swedish RF is close to the Berleburgs so i would be quite surprised if no one attends.
Considering the ties between the Swedes and Benediktes family, I would think some showing. If the king can't reschedule, I'd think he will send a child. Possibly Madeleine if she is able. Benedikte is her godmother, she may go to support her and represent her parents.

Was Richard close to his Swedish family? I read that while they were in exile, he was raised at the castle if his maternal grandfather in Sweden. His mother had three siblings, and they all seem to have living children.
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  #83  
Old 03-17-2017, 04:16 AM
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Originally Posted by WreathOfLaurels View Post
I was talking about the aryan clause not the equal birth one, given that the concept of Aryanism it's basically pseudoscience. I was raising the point that the marriage clauses in a lot of these wills are often based on shaky logic by today's standards and that in some cases unreasonable clauses can be overridden with out necessary invalidating the entire will - meaning the estates would not be split up under current inherentance law; or that they might be overriddedn by certain elements of EU human rights law or German constitutional law which would take precedent over the will - the fact the will was made under the nazi's must count for something under German law as there is often a lot of clauses over the nullity of certain things done under 'criminal regimes' i.e. The nazi's and East German communists.
But the Aryan clause (= no Jewish partner) is only a theory. It is written on paper. And we all know that paper has a lot of patience. There needs to be a real case first to contest this clause.

With other words: Prince Gustav needs to find a Jewish fiancée which meets the aristiocrat requirement. Then the couple has grounds to start a lawsuit against this condition, most likely with success

When Ms Carina Axelsson was Jewish, then Prince Gustav could have fought the "Aryan clause" but still the condition set by the deceased owner of the properties that the benefactor of his worldy goods must contract a marriage in line with the House Laws to enjoy inheritance still stands.

There are a plenty of Jewish nobles: Rotschild (France/Germany), Teixeira de Mattos (Dutch), Hofmann von Hofmannstal (Austria), Cholmondeley (UK), etc.
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  #84  
Old 03-17-2017, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
But the Aryan clause (= no Jewish partner) is only a theory. It is written on paper. And we all know that paper has a lot of patience. There needs to be a real case first to contest this clause.

With other words: Prince Gustav needs to find a Jewish fiancée which meets the aristiocrat requirement. Then the couple has grounds to start a lawsuit against this condition, most likely with success

When Ms Carina Axelsson was Jewish, then Prince Gustav could have fought the "Aryan clause" but still the condition set by the deceased owner of the properties that the benefactor of his worldy goods must contract a marriage in line with the House Laws to enjoy inheritance still stands.

There are a plenty of Jewish nobles: Rotschild (France/Germany), Teixeira de Mattos (Dutch), Hofmann von Hofmannstal (Austria), Cholmondeley (UK), etc.
I was under the impression that Aryan meant Northern European not just 'not-Jewish', and that Carina Axelsson's heritage not just her birth was part of the problem. I am aware that other families still follow this pattern and have similar clauses in their wills, but the fact that the late Prince Richard and Gustav himself have tried previously to have these clauses nullified in the German courts, and that it wasn't successful is interesting.
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  #85  
Old 03-17-2017, 09:46 AM
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In general a lawsuit to challenge the validity of a testament can only be filed by people who would be personally and financially affected by the terms of it. The late Prince Richard and Prince Gustav enjoy(ed) greath wealth due to the very same testament of their grandfather. Neither the late Prince nor the current Prince have been cut out nor has seen their share of the estate reduced.

So while already enjoying the (rich) fruits of the testament for decades, the Princes had to establish before Court that the very same testament is invalid for some reason. As Courts and legislation generally feel a strong obligation to uphold the final wishes of a deceased owner of a fortune and that a testament accurately reflects the wishes of the person who wrote it, the chances on success are minimal.

The testament was (and is) enjoyed to the fullest and the only "problem" came when Prince Gustav found a partner who was not meeting the condition as set down in the testament: that the House Treaty has to be respected. That Erbverbrüderungvertrag (Hereditary Confraternization Treaty) of 20 November 1607 between the branches of the House says: no marriage is allowed with geringeren Standespersonen (read: non-noble partners).

The grandfather of the current Prince conditioned in his testament that this legal document, which has been enforced for generations, must be respected. It will be very hard to convince a Court that this is an illegal condition, that the testament is unlawful and that the House Treaty has no jurisdiction anymore.
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  #86  
Old 03-17-2017, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WreathOfLaurels View Post
I was under the impression that Aryan meant Northern European not just 'not-Jewish', and that Carina Axelsson's heritage not just her birth was part of the problem. I am aware that other families still follow this pattern and have similar clauses in their wills, but the fact that the late Prince Richard and Gustav himself have tried previously to have these clauses nullified in the German courts, and that it wasn't successful is interesting.
"Aryan", technically speaking, is someone who, thousands of years ago, was, I suppose, from the region which now includes parts of northern India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Iran. Whatever "Aryan" means in Nazi pseudoscience is, however, open to interpretation. That is why I find it odd that such clauses are still found in post-Nazi Germany.
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  #87  
Old 03-17-2017, 11:47 AM
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Princess Maria Olympia of Greece posted a photo of herself today in Copenhagen. I wonder if she is accompanied by her parents and if they will continue on to Germany for the funeral of their uncle/great-uncle.
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  #88  
Old 03-17-2017, 12:34 PM
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from the DRF, the Queen and Prince Henrik, Crown Prince Couple Frederik and Mary, and Prince Joachim and Princess Marie will attend the funeral on Tuesday, March 21st
Regentparret, Kronprinsparret og D.K.H. Prins Joachim og Prinsesse Marie deltager i bisættelsen af H.H. Prins Richard | Kongehuset

according to this article in Billedbladet, As long as the Queen or regent return the same day, there is no need for another regent to be named
Dronning Margrethe tager hele familien med til prins Richards bisættelse | BILLED-BLADET
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  #89  
Old 03-17-2017, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by crm2317 View Post
Princess Maria Olympia of Greece posted a photo of herself today in Copenhagen. I wonder if she is accompanied by her parents and if they will continue on to Germany for the funeral of their uncle/great-uncle.
I believe that King Constantine and Queen Anne Marie should be in Copenhagen this weekend, obviously the reason is to give condolences and accompany Princess Benedikte and her family in these sad moments ,Taking advantage of the fact that her grandparents are in Denmark, and accompanied by her parents, she is mainly visiting her grandparents and also presenting her condolences. I do not think she will be in funeral, I think in funeral will be Queen Anne-Marie and her children
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  #90  
Old 03-17-2017, 03:02 PM
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BB has compiled a well-illustrated obituary of Prince Richard, which you can find here: https://app.box.com/s/1ac1ed7rkzxv6r9p9tdcvc938fgozsqx

There are a number of brief details about Prince Richard's life, but mainly about his affiliation with the DRF.
The problems about the will and who will eventually inherit Berleburg is also mentioned, but members here on this thread are much more well-informed and can provide much more comprehensive information than a summary from me.
The article does mention that Princess Nathalie with family also live at Berleburg. I was under the impression that they lived some distance away.
However Princess Alexandra and family live near Mainz.
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  #91  
Old 03-17-2017, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
The article does mention that Princess Nathalie with family also live at Berleburg. I was under the impression that they lived some distance away.
However Princess Alexandra and family live near Mainz.
I visted Schloss Berleburg 2 years ago and saw Nathalie getting back from the horse ride.

Apart from her, Gustav also lived in the Castle. They have apartments in the right wing of the Castle, if we look on this picture. On the left side is a museum.

Prince Richard and Princess Benedikte actually did not live in the Castle, but in a manor(house) in front of the Castle.

You can see it in this picture:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/...89_634x433.jpg

The Castle and the white manor on the right in front of the Castle.
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  #92  
Old 03-17-2017, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
The article does mention that Princess Nathalie with family also live at Berleburg. I was under the impression that they lived some distance away.
However Princess Alexandra and family live near Mainz.
January this year, when Princess Nathalie was appointed the new national coach of the Danish dressage team it was said : "lives at Berleburg but later in the year the family will move to Hamburg"

Dansk Ride Forbund - Prinsesse Nathalie zu Sayn-Wittgenstein ny landstræner for det danske dressurlandshold
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  #93  
Old 03-17-2017, 05:41 PM
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According to the Norwegian Royal Calendar, Martha Louise will attend the funeral. Iceland begins a State Visit to Norway on the 21st

"21/03/2017 Funeral
Princess Martha Louise represents the Royal Family at the funeral of Prince Richard of Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg from Evangelische Stadtkirche, Bad Berleburg, Germany"
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  #94  
Old 03-18-2017, 06:57 PM
eya eya is offline
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"Some old photos in the memory of Prince Richard."
" Every year at this time the beginning of July, organized a big folk festival in the town of Berleburg and the princely family castle, a festival with music, dances, and many other entertainment ... a lot of beer! In celebration of 1967 would participate for the first time and the fiancee of Prince , Princess Benedikte with her mother Queen Ingrid and her sister Queen Anna-Maria"

https://www.royalchronicles.gr/wp-co...E%BF%CE%BA.jpg
https://www.royalchronicles.gr/wp-co...93-768x518.jpg
https://www.royalchronicles.gr/wp-co...4-745x1024.jpg
https://www.royalchronicles.gr/wp-co...E%BF%CE%BA.jpg
https://www.royalchronicles.gr/wp-co...-4-768x516.jpg
https://www.royalchronicles.gr/wp-co...93-768x516.jpg

And after that Princes Richard and Benedikte came in Greece and staying for 10 days

https://www.royalchronicles.gr/wp-co...99%CE%9B-5.jpg
https://www.royalchronicles.gr/wp-co...92-768x586.jpg

"How close Wittgensteiner felt to Richard Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg became more and more evident at the weekend in Bad Berleburg, because the opportunity to meet personally in the castle chapel by the boss of the traditional " Adelshauses was very lively - despite the miserable weather with rain and wind on Saturday and Sunday. People were uninterruptedly on the way to the chapel, where the coffin of the Wittgenstein Wisent project was laid under a flag. Sometimes it was individuals, but also families or groups. The fact that large delegations of the Berneburg and Berghausen shooting clubs as well as the volunteer fire brigade belonged to the mourners also underscores the fact that Prince Richard always showed himself as a citizen and interested in life in his hometown. Many people also took the opportunity to perpetuate a last greeting in one of the available condolence books."


Siegener Zeitung :: LOKALES :: Letzte Ehre für Prinz Richard

https://translate.googleusercontent....82eoCRv2EHrVBA

Live from Berleburg https://www.facebook.com/billedbladet/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED …

https://www.billedbladet.dk/kongelig...lser-til-prins

Here the guest list

https://twitter.com/Rick_Evers/statu...54693299437569

Silvia, Madeleine

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7cYoR5X0AAOVDC.jpg

Greek Royals

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7cYoR5XgAEoBv9.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7cYoR4XgAEtSY6.jpg

Joachim, Marie

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7cZEI9XQAAXXqN.jpg

Dutch Royals

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7cW-EUWkAEo5MU.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7cW-EYXwAI_WNU.jpg
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  #95  
Old 03-18-2017, 07:02 PM
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Oh, how sad and sudden. May he rest in peace.
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  #96  
Old 03-18-2017, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
"Aryan", technically speaking, is someone who, thousands of years ago, was, I suppose, from the region which now includes parts of northern India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Iran. Whatever "Aryan" means in Nazi pseudoscience is, however, open to interpretation. That is why I find it odd that such clauses are still found in post-Nazi Germany.
I was personally under the impression that a lot of legal stuff from that time period had been declared null and void post 1945 surrender. But it was pointed out above that its their older house laws that are still in effect from 1607 as well. The fact that treaties governing marriage pre 1919 are still in effect doesn't actually suprise me as as these treaties were technically international law (ie agreements made between sovereign states) at the time and that their obligations were inherited by the mediatized families post Vienna Congress and German Unifaction makes sense. At least I think that's what's happened here...
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  #97  
Old 03-20-2017, 09:30 AM
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Queen Silvia has dropped out of Stockholm Peace Talks tomorrow (Victoria will go instead), which could mean that Silvia will attend the funeral.
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  #98  
Old 03-20-2017, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Minister of Court View Post
Queen Silvia has dropped out of Stockholm Peace Talks tomorrow (Victoria will go instead), which could mean that Silvia will attend the funeral.
Queen Silvia has also dropped out of other engagements tomorrow, like the audience for the President of Croatia.
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  #99  
Old 03-20-2017, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Kingen View Post
Queen Silvia has also dropped out of other engagements tomorrow, like the audience for the President of Croatia.
The Queen and Princess Madeleine will attend the funeral, a representative from the press department of the royal court told expressen. however the event has not been listen on the court calendar yet, perhaps because it is considered as a private family event
Silvia och Madeleine till kungliga begravningen | Kvällsposten
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  #100  
Old 03-20-2017, 12:10 PM
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And the NRF will be represented by Princess Märtha Louise. Prinsesse Märtha Louise deltager i prins Richards bisættelse | BILLED-BLADET
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