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03-14-2017, 09:03 PM
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Majesty
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: City, Kazakhstan
Posts: 8,013
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Condolences to the family.
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03-14-2017, 09:55 PM
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Courtier
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Somewhere in Germany, Germany
Posts: 934
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Who will be the next heir after Gustavs death since he won't have children with Carina?
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03-14-2017, 10:28 PM
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Majesty
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: City, Kazakhstan
Posts: 8,013
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If my memory serves me correctly ...
If Prince Gustav were childless, the succession line would be moved to Prince Robin, Prince Richard's younger brother, and his children.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince...tein-Berleburg
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03-14-2017, 11:14 PM
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Imperial Majesty
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: alberta, Canada
Posts: 12,699
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Is it just the title that goes to robin? Or the money and everything else that goes with it? I know little of German titles. I know with many aristocratic titles, thohgh the title was list or past to another branch, the personal fortune remained with the family.
Anyways truly sad news. Sad that it was so sudden that Benedikte was not home with him. My condolences to his wife, children and grandchildren
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03-15-2017, 03:57 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: -, France
Posts: 22,976
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When does the funeral expect to take place?
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03-15-2017, 04:02 AM
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Serene Highness
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Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: New Orleans, United States
Posts: 1,302
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Condolences to his loved ones.
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03-15-2017, 05:49 AM
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Nobility
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 261
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Terribly sad news - Condolences to Bene and family.
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03-15-2017, 06:55 AM
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Royal Highness
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: philadelphia, United States
Posts: 1,656
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Countessmeout
Is it just the title that goes to robin? Or the money and everything else that goes with it?
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Vast money and estates which are connected to the title of Fürst.
Gustav wouldn't lose his title of Prince, Carina would be Princess in case of marriage, but would not be considered as Fürst, Head of the family. The money and estates that go with it also, by personal will of his grandfather.
So, Gustav is not forbidden to marry by any means. It is just said that he wouldn't inherit personal wealth of his grandfather if he doesn't marry kind of girl his grandfather wanted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al_bina
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The clause was that the Heir to Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg estate has to be married to Protestant Aryan noble girl, which excludes Prince Robin and his descendants.
So, the next in line who should inherit would be Prince Bernhart zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg(adopted Sayn-Wittgenstein-Hohenstein) who lives in Berleburg and was/is married to Countess Katharina von Podewils-Dürnitz.
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03-15-2017, 10:02 AM
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Aristocracy
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Sansepolcro, Italy
Posts: 147
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Sad news, my condolences to Princess Benedikte and her family.
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03-15-2017, 10:13 AM
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Majesty
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: City, Kazakhstan
Posts: 8,013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc23
... [snipped]
The clause was that the Heir to Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg estate has to be married to Protestant Aryan noble girl, which excludes Prince Robin and his descendants.
So, the next in line who should inherit would be Prince Bernhart zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg(adopted Sayn-Wittgenstein-Hohenstein) who lives in Berleburg and was/is married to Countess Katharina von Podewils-Dürnitz.
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Thanks for the clarification!
The clause situation is very complicated. I wonder what should happen for it to be annulled.
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03-15-2017, 12:19 PM
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Imperial Majesty
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Eastern Jutland, Denmark
Posts: 13,947
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BB reports that Princess Benedikte and her children are gathered at Berleburg. They are understandably distressed and are now preparing the funeral: Benedikte og børnene samlet på Berleburg | BILLED-BLADET
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03-15-2017, 12:23 PM
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Heir Apparent
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Malmö, Sweden
Posts: 3,241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc23
Vast money and estates which are connected to the title of Fürst.
Gustav wouldn't lose his title of Prince, Carina would be Princess in case of marriage, but would not be considered as Fürst, Head of the family. The money and estates that go with it also, by personal will of his grandfather.
So, Gustav is not forbidden to marry by any means. It is just said that he wouldn't inherit personal wealth of his grandfather if he doesn't marry kind of girl his grandfather wanted.
The clause was that the Heir to Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg estate has to be married to Protestant Aryan noble girl, which excludes Prince Robin and his descendants.
So, the next in line who should inherit would be Prince Bernhart zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg(adopted Sayn-Wittgenstein-Hohenstein) who lives in Berleburg and was/is married to Countess Katharina von Podewils-Dürnitz.
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Would it really exclude Prince Robin? Although not a very prominent one, his first wife and mother of his heir, Birgitta af Klercker does come from a Swedish noble family.
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03-15-2017, 01:47 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: , Germany
Posts: 55,868
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It was announced today that the funeral mass will be held next Tuesday, March 21, at 2 pm at the Evangelische Stadtkirche in Bad Berleburg, Germany:
** BB: Prins Richard begraves på tirsdag i Berleburg ** translation **
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**** Welcome aboard! ****
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03-15-2017, 01:47 PM
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Imperial Majesty
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 10,701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarlita
Very sad for HRH Princess Benedikte and her family. I suppose poor Richard became increasingly frustrated and perhaps a little bitter over the years due to the weird terms of his fathers Will. I really do hope that Prince Gustav can claim his birthright in a proper manner - legally- sooner rather than later. That is;- that the German courts overturn the relevant parts of the grandfathers Will.
Many Thanks to Muhler and others for information given on Richard and his family.
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The new Fürst is not witheld his birthright. He is the successor to his father as the new head of the princely House Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg. He is also not barred at all to marry Ms Carina Axelsson. This means that none of his rights are infringed at all.
A Will is an expression of the wish of the deceased owner of the properties involved. Such a Will can come with conditions. For an example: the grandchildren receive a stipendium upon graduating from university. You did not graduate? Too bad for you: no stipendium. You simply did not met the condition for receiving the stipendium.
Prince Gustav's grandfather wanted to ensure that the head of his illustrious House keeps loyal to the standards and traditions of the House, that an alliance must be befitting the prestige and the dignity of the House. Anno 2017 this condition might sound outdated but it is not against any human right. After all no one blocks Prince Gustav to marry. Yes, it can have consequences that Ms Axelsson does not meet the requirement that she must be of equal standing (of noble birth) but it is up to Prince Gustav to make his own choice in this.
Note that requirements are of all times. In most monarchies a successor can not marry without permission of the Sovereign. Until recently a successor to the British throne would loose his rights when marrying a "papist". In the Netherlands Parliament even has to vote on a Bill of Consent when a successor wants to engage in marriage (which goes with an official counsel, a reading in commission and a plenary debate even, mind you... only because A wants to marry B).
So when the dot meets the i, no any right of Prince Gustav is harmed. That is also why they have problems to fight the Will. For the same money Prince Gustav's grandfather could have donated everything to a Foundation for Veterans of the Wehrmacht deployed at the Russian East Front... For so far the very same Will has made it able to the late Prince Richard and now Prince Gustav to have a very, very privileged life in great wealth.
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03-15-2017, 03:11 PM
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Imperial Majesty
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Eastern Jutland, Denmark
Posts: 13,947
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In this video from BB, Joachim express his sadness over the death of Prince Richard and his sympathy for Princess Benedikte and her children.
VIDEO: Prins Joachim i sorg over prins Richard | BILLED-BLADET
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03-15-2017, 03:19 PM
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Majesty
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: *******, Canada
Posts: 8,910
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I'm confused. Wouldn't Princess Benedikte be a member of his family and not the other way around?
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03-15-2017, 04:01 PM
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Super Moderator
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Esslingen, Germany
Posts: 5,119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR76
Would it really exclude Prince Robin? Although not a very prominent one, his first wife and mother of his heir, Birgitta af Klercker does come from a Swedish noble family.
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It depends on the Will. We don't know if only the heir of Fürst Gustav Albrecht is required to marry a noble, protestant and arian lady or ar also the second heir like it was in the Prussia Case. If it is only his heir then Prince Robin and his descendantsd would not be excluded.
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Stefan
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03-15-2017, 04:57 PM
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Majesty
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Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 6,554
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan
It depends on the Will. We don't know if only the heir of Fürst Gustav Albrecht is required to marry a noble, protestant and arian lady or ar also the second heir like it was in the Prussia Case. If it is only his heir then Prince Robin and his descendantsd would not be excluded.
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Excuse me, but what is an "Aryan lady" exactly ? Was Prince Richard's father a Nazi or something like that ?
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03-15-2017, 05:10 PM
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Royal Highness
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: philadelphia, United States
Posts: 1,656
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno
Excuse me, but what is an "Aryan lady" exactly ? Was Prince Richard's father a Nazi or something like that ?
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Probably means from German/Austrian noble family...
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03-15-2017, 05:12 PM
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Royal Highness
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: philadelphia, United States
Posts: 1,656
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair
The new Fürst is not witheld his birthright. He is the successor to his father as the new head of the princely House Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg. He is also not barred at all to marry Ms Carina Axelsson. This means that none of his rights are infringed at all.
A Will is an expression of the wish of the deceased owner of the properties involved. Such a Will can come with conditions. For an example: the grandchildren receive a stipendium upon graduating from university. You did not graduate? Too bad for you: no stipendium. You simply did not met the condition for receiving the stipendium.
Prince Gustav's grandfather wanted to ensure that the head of his illustrious House keeps loyal to the standards and traditions of the House, that an alliance must be befitting the prestige and the dignity of the House. Anno 2017 this condition might sound outdated but it is not against any human right. After all no one blocks Prince Gustav to marry. Yes, it can have consequences that Ms Axelsson does not meet the requirement that she must be of equal standing (of noble birth) but it is up to Prince Gustav to make his own choice in this.
Note that requirements are of all times. In most monarchies a successor can not marry without permission of the Sovereign. Until recently a successor to the British throne would loose his rights when marrying a "papist". In the Netherlands Parliament even has to vote on a Bill of Consent when a successor wants to engage in marriage (which goes with an official counsel, a reading in commission and a plenary debate even, mind you... only because A wants to marry B).
So when the dot meets the i, no any right of Prince Gustav is harmed. That is also why they have problems to fight the Will. For the same money Prince Gustav's grandfather could have donated everything to a Foundation for Veterans of the Wehrmacht deployed at the Russian East Front... For so far the very same Will has made it able to the late Prince Richard and now Prince Gustav to have a very, very privileged life in great wealth.
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Spot on! :-)
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