The Duke and Duchess of Vendôme: June 2009-Feb 2019

[amedea]

I not only don't blame the DoV, but I am in some way happy that he didn't support his father's wedding, that I found unfortunate too. Jean demonstrate in this way also sympathy for his mother, who in my opinion is the real victim of the situation.

 

[Emeralds and Opals]

Revolution was a 'mistake' says French 'King' - Telegraph

 

[MAfan]

Well, at least in one thing Jean seems to be in accordance with his father: in disinheriting Prince François...

 

[maria-olivia]

Prince François doesn' t deserve your sentence MAfan.

 

[MAfan]

No, no, my sentence is not against Prince François; I know he doesn't have any fault...my sentence refers to the rift between Henri and Jean (and maybe other members of the Family).

 

[claypoint2]

For my part, I believe I understood your meaning, MAfan. You were not criticizing poor Prince François, but you were pointing out (with some irony) the fact that Jean may disagree with his father on many things, but somehow he doesn't mind having gained dynastic precedence. On that point he doesn't fight with his father.

As for their disagreement about the religious marriage of the Comte de Paris, I can honestly see things from both sides. What I find perplexing is the change in Jean's attitude. After all, Henri was invited and present -- along with his second wife -- at Jean's marriage to Philomena de Tornos in May. Henri's religious marriage had already been announced at that point... so why all the fireworks now?

As I've said elsewhere in these forums, the only (sad) reason that I can imagine for this change on Jean's part is his mother's illness. Perhaps the health of the Duchesse de Montpensier has taken a turn for the worse, and her son wishes to show solidarity with her? After all, her initial hospitalization took place on the eve of Jean's wedding -- the same wedding to which Henri & Micaela were invited & attended -- so perhaps Jean feels unconsciously guilty for his mother's illness. Of course, this is nothing more than pure speculation on my part.

 

[MAfan]

Yes, Claypoint2, you have understood what I mean; and I can add that the French Royal Family seems not to have clair ideas...
Btw, I wonder if the missed attendance to the last wedding of most of the members of the Royal Family was only due to the e-mail of Jean or also due to other reasons...

 

[Marengo]

Personally I find it rather odd that a 44 y/o man would rebel against his fathers remarriage after the father has been divorced for 25 (!) years AND the Vatican has annulled the first marriage. And it is even odder that this is played out in the open. As the count of Paris says, the duke of Vendome is forgetting who is the father and who is the son.

I also find it odd that the duke, who claims to be very religious, does not understand the basics of christianity: forgiveness, compassion and love. And the ten commendmends also have something to say about honouring your parents, both your parents.

ANother classic Orleans rift. Now if we figure out which cousin sent the email to STephane Bern (there was only one cousin present at the wedding I believe, so that seems pretty easy - esp. since that prince has frequent contacts with the press) the feud will be even bigger. Bravo prince Jean!

 

[amedea]

Between Catholics, like I am, it is not uncommon a certain unease about some marriage annulements such as the one of the count of Paris. While crowds of people work hard to go on with their marriages, it seems that if you are rich and barefaced enough to insist in church courts you finally get your annulement. I really don't know if this is the feeling of the Duke of Vendome, but I wanted to answer to people in this forum surprized at the idea that the duke could also criticize the second wedding of his father on religious purposes.

 

[Al_bina]

Personally I find it rather odd that a 44 y/o man would rebel against his fathers remarriage after the father has been divorced for 25 (!) years AND the Vatican has annulled the first marriage. And it is even odder that this is played out in the open. ... [snipped]

Marengo,
I have read your post multiple times and fail to understand whether you applaud Prince Jean's actions or castigate Prince Jean for somewhat childish behaviour. Although I think that Duke of Vendome has his reasons to be frustrated with his father's actions, I wish they maintained decorum.

 

[Marengo]

Well, although one never knows what happens in families, I find it rather odd that the prince goes public with all this and that he breaks of all contact with his father because he married religiously a lady with whom he has been for 25 years, AND after the vatican annulled his first wedding. So I am not applauding the prince at all, quite the contrairy. Though again, we don't know what exactly happened between father and son during the last years/decades.

 

[Al_bina]

Thanks for providing additional clarifications!
Well, you are right to note that Prince Jean's actions are odd. I am sure that the rift is extremely deep. Prince Jean feels offended because his mother's feelings were dragged through the mud. The religious ceremony is an extra reminder of his mother's public humiliation ... in my personal opinion.

 

[Katrianna]

I'm also perplexed at Prince Jean's opinions now. As pointed out, his father's second marriage has been going on for 25 yr. and the first was annulled. The religious marriage was announced prior to Prince Jean's religious marriage and by the pictures, all was well with father and son. Why the sudden pronouncement against his father now? I can only offer the explanation that during the summer between religious marriages of son and father, there must have been a falling out between them over what, we won't know, because it's family business. Perhaps Prince Jean's mother is very ill or dying and it's opened all the wounds and bitterness of the past. Just my guess.

 

[maria-olivia]

What hurts me is the immediate public reply by press of the Count de Paris.

 

[Al_bina]

What was Count's of Paris reply to his son? I wonder why Count of Paris opted to continue the public feud. It does not matter what he says or does now, Duchess of Montpensier was wronged by his actions. At the same time, I would say that Prince Jean should just ignore his father, if they can not maintain civil relationships.

 

[Odette]

The Count of Paris has in the past, published letters that were addressed to his father when the late Conte de Paris, bypassed him and made the now Duc de Vendome his heir.
It is sad when the family feuds between family members become public knowledge.
BTW I just received the Point de Vue about the wedding of C & Css de Paris and I was moved by the obvious love he has for her. The family always fascinated and frustrated me at the same time and the current issues are no exception.

 

[iceflower]

Pics 14.10.2009

Prince Jean d'Orleans, Duke of Vendome poses with his new book
''Un Prince Francais" (A French prince) published by Pygmalion,
Paris, France, October 14, 2009
The work suggests that the 1789 revolution was a mistake, that
the French Republic is inherently unstable and that France should
renew ties with ancestral tradition.


** Pic 1 ** Pic 2 **

 

[Odette]

I am sure a lot of French will take his findings badly.
220 years later and with a country like France today, it may seem like a self serving book to ingite some support for the restoration of the Orleans family.

 

[Al_bina]

I have to agree with you.While one might understand Prince Jean's intentions to highlight the importance of French royalty as a uniting power, his views on the subject are very biased. Furthermore, it is worth noting that France came full circle of political regimes: absolute monarchy -revolution/republic -Napoleon I's empire -restoration (i.e., the July Monarchy) -revolution/republic. This means that most Frenchmen preferred to live in a republic.

 

[claypoint2]

I agree with both Odette and Al bina. As others in this thread (Marengo, MAfan) have also pointed out, Prince Jean's actions are very inconsistent. The most recent example is that Jean believes the revolution was a mistake, he wishes to restore the old order, and yet he married someone who (though blameless and by all accounts a lovely and discreet person) would have been deemed entirely unacceptable only 40-50 years ago. It is very convenient to choose those aspects of history that suit you, while disregarding those that don't.

As for the inconsistent actions regarding his father -- notably, that Henri and Micaela were invited to Jean's wedding this past May, and yet Jean is now acting with such venom towards his father because he married Micaela in accordance with the rites of the Roman Catholic church -- perhaps I can understand it in the context of his mother's illness. The Duchess of Montpensier became gravely ill on the eve of Jean's wedding, and I wonder if the son feels responsible... or, at a minimum, he feels that he has to ally in solidarity with his mother because of her illness. But I've said this already... and, once again, it is only speculation on my part.

 

[Warren]

I am sure a lot of French will take his findings badly.

Probably. Apart from that, is anyone aware of what Pr Jean is actually proposing? An ancien régime-style absolute monarchy or a constitutional monarchy?
Surely he's not a reincarnation of the comte de Chambord.

 

[amedea]

Probably. Apart from that, is anyone aware of what Pr Jean is actually proposing? An ancien régime-style absolute monarchy or a constitutional monarchy?
Surely he's not a reincarnation of the comte de Chambord.

Yes, the intresting thing is that Jean seems to support the ancien régime, while the Orléans in the past opposed it: Philippe-Egalité during the revolution, Louis-Philippe in 1830.
Jean can decide if claim the throne as King of France (as a successor of the comte de Chambord, so a successor of Charles X) or as King of the French (as a successor of Louis-Philippe). From what he has stated in the book it seems he prefers the first one.

 

[iceflower]

Prince Jean d'Orleans and Princess Marie-Therese of Orleans, Duchess
of Montpensier, during the gala Andre-Charles Boule Exhibition " A new
style for Europe" at the old Opera in Frankfurt, Germany, October 27.
2009.
The Duchess of Vendome did not attend, quite understandable with
the baby coming soon..


** Pic 1 ** Pic 2 **

 

[Al_bina]

Thanks for photos!
Given the health-related rumours, it is a pleasure to see Duchess of Montpensier attending a public event alongside her son. I have to say that she looks truly regal.

 

[MAfan]

Yes, Al bina, I was thinking the same of your; it's nice to see her again, and she looks quite well, considering the very bad news about her health of the last May.

 

[amedea]

I am very pleased that the Princess' health is good enough to allow her to attend society events. I confess they are the first pics of her I've ever seen after the ones of her wedding. She's an elegant and dignified lady (well Al-bina has said it right: "regal"). Thanks very much iceflower!

 

[rominet09]

Delighted to see her, and well enough to attend an event.... long may she lives !

 

[Patra]

Duchess of Montpensier is elegant indeed. Good to see her out with her son. Regarding family squabbles, NEVER a good idea to play them out in the press/public. Everyone tends to get "mud in their eye", imho.

 

[iceflower]

Prince Jean d'Orleans, the Duke of Vendome, presented his book
''Un Prince Francais" at the Paroisse de Notre Dame de Passy, Paris,
France, November 6, 2009.

The Princess was present as well, which is nice to see, on pic 4
you can also see Prince Eudes and Princess Marie Liesse, Duke and
Duchess of Angouleme.


** Pic 1 ** Pic 2 ** Pic 3 ** Pic 4 **

 

[Renata4711]

The Count of Paris has his own Facebook site:
Le comte de Paris et Duc de France, Mgr Henri d'Orléans, de jure Henri VII | Facebook