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  #1  
Old 08-26-2005, 06:29 AM
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Questions about Names, Styles and Titles

After his father died the new Comte de Paris awarded his wife and himself the title of "Duc [and Duchesse] de France", but although he refers to her as Duchesse de France, he still calls himself Comte de Paris. Any idea why? And did he create Prince Charles-Philippe d'Orléans Duc d'Anjou just to cause trouble and/or undermine Louis Alfonso?
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Old 08-26-2005, 07:15 AM
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Of course he is going to try to undermine Louis Alfonso. These two branches of the French Royal Family have been at loggerheads for so long.

I don't understand the titles of Duc et Duchesse de France. These are titles are without precedent. In Austria and Russia, you had Grandduchesses of the country, but in France there has never been anything like this.
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Old 08-26-2005, 10:01 AM
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The title Duke of France is supposed to be a reference to the old title duke of the Francs bore by French royals who don't even belongs to his dynasty.

As far as French law is concerned, Louis Borbon is the only Duke of Anjou (it's written on his passport, according to Wikipedia). The other one is an impostor.

I personally think Henry use Cont of Paris because it's the most prestigious title, and because it's acknowledged even by the president of the republic.

PS:Who is the proper heir? I'm so lost!!
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Old 07-11-2006, 10:39 PM
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Duke of Normandy?

Hello,

Can somebody help answer: "Who is the present Duke of Normandy?"
Is there such a title in present day royalty, noblility or aristocracy?

I know that William the Conqueror was Duke of Normandy and his descendants continued to be that also. But, what happened after the 100 Years Wars and France reclaiming Normandy. Calais fell back to France in Mary Tudor's reign.
Did France reinstate a new Duke of Normandy?

Also, there was a French nobleman in the 20's called 'The Marquis de la Falaise de Coudray. He married movie stars Gloria Swanson and Constance Bennett but returned to France during WWII.
What happened to him? Is he part of the Norman nobility?

Thank you for any answers that you can give me.

Regards,
Larry
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Old 07-12-2006, 08:43 AM
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King James II (1635-1701) titles: Duke of York (1633-85), Earl of Ulster (1659), Duke of Normandy (1660), Duke of Albany (1660-85), King of England (1685-88), King of Scotland (1685-88), King of Ireland (1685-88).

Duc de Normandie http://geneweb.inria.fr/roglo?lang=e...p=de+Normandie
Some informations here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_of_Normandy
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  #6  
Old 11-15-2008, 09:20 AM
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So Queen Elizabeth II of Great Britain ie the British monarch still carries the title Duke of Normandy?
And the Channel Islands are considered French and part of Normandy vs part of England?

Im kinda confused by the Wikipedia article.........
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Old 11-15-2008, 05:42 PM
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Queen Elizabeth II is the Duke of Normandy - a title the Kings/Queens of England (and then subsequently of the United Kingdom) have held since William I who was the Duke of Normandy. However the Duchy of Normandy is now only recognised as being that of the Channel Islands and not Normandy itself in France from which the title originated.
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Old 11-30-2008, 08:30 PM
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Hugues Capet used the title, Duke of France, as well as Count of Paris.
So both of these titles, used nowadays by the head of the Bourbon house, are originally Capetian.

Please note - the Bourbons descend in a direct male line from Hugh Capet. The present Comte de Paris descends directly from Henry IV, first Bourbon King of France, and he himself descends directly from Robert Capet, a younger son of King St Louis, who married the heiress of the Bourbon title and founded the junior Capetian branch of Bourbon.

---------------------

William the Conqueror was Duke of Normandy and the title was held by his descendants, as a fief of the French Crown.
From the time of Edward III onwards, the English king also styled himself "King of France".
So Queen Elizabeth is not only Duchess of Normandy but also Queen of France.
Both her "Kingdom of France" and "Duchy of Normandy" are limited to the Channel Islands, since the rest obviously has been lost long ago Kinda like Taiwan, I believe, who style themselves "China" although they lost mainland China long time ago.


However, I do believe that there were a number of French princes who held the title "Duc de Normandie" throughout the ages, although I don't believe any of them survived to adulthood or had any issue.
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Old 12-10-2008, 06:14 PM
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In fact, during the 100-year-war, the title of duke of Normandy that had been heired by kings of England through William the Conqueror, but that stil depended of the king of France (the king of England had some duties to the king of France for the duchy of Normandy) was confiscated to them for treason, it was the feudal rule. Only the islands (Jersey, Guernsey...) remained in possession of the kings of England, this is why they continue wearing the title.
Later, the title was given by kings of France to princes close to the crown.
The three first ones held effectively the duchy, while the last only wore the title :
- the elder son of king of France Philip VI, future John II;
- his elder son, future Charles V the Wise;
- Charles VII's second son, also duke of Berry;
- Louis XVI's second son, later Louis XVII, dead in the Temple.
The title has none helder now.
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Old 12-09-2013, 03:08 PM
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Prince Philippe of Orleans, the Count of Paris, was a claimant to the throne of France. He was actually Louis Philippe Albert. I know he was the grandson of Louis Philippe I, King of the French. I have seen him listed as Philippe VII in the Orleanist pretenders. Wikipedia mentioned "in 1848 to put him on the throne under the name of Louis-Philippe II, with his mother Helene as Regent,". Why is Philippe listed as Philippe VII in Orleanist claimants and not as Louis Philippe II?

Will Francois, Count of Clermont be recognized as Francois III?
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Old 12-09-2013, 05:56 PM
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In 1848 he was the successor of Louis Philippe (I), King of the French. At that time there was another claimant to the French Throne, the Count of Chambord, whose regnal name would be Henry V, King of France. In 1883 the Count of Chambord died and the Count of Paris was his successor.
So basically the Count of Paris would have been Louis Philippe II as King of the French and Philippe VII as King of France. Since 1883 he was the claimant to both titles, under different regnal names.
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Old 01-01-2018, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla View Post
Will Francois, Count of Clermont be recognized as Francois III?
I doubt it. His father the Count of Paris is still alive. Her brother Jean, Duke of Vendome is now recognized as the Dauphin.
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Old 01-01-2018, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla View Post
Will Francois, Count of Clermont be recognized as Francois III?
No. If he had out lived his father, he would have been recognized as Francois III by those who support their claim to the French throne. But his father out lived him. It will be his brother Jean who will be titular king of France (for the orleanist claim that is). Its the same with a reigning monarchy. If Charles died before his mother, we wouldn't expect him to be recognized as Charles III.
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Old 11-20-2018, 06:05 PM
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Prince Gaston of Orleans, Count of Eu (1842-1922) was married to Princess Isabel, heiress to the Brazilian throne. Prince Foulques of Orleans, born in 1974, has the titles of Duke of Aumale and Count of Eu. Why did not any of Prince Gaston's three sons get the title of Count of Eu?
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Old 12-11-2018, 10:42 AM
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Philippe de France, Duke of Orléans, Louis XIV’s brother, was originally styled Duke of Anjou. Did he give up the title of Duke of Anjou upon becoming Duke of Orléans ? If, on the other hand, he retained the title of Duke of Anjou, why didn’t the title pass to his male descendants ?

Thanks for answering.
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Old 12-14-2018, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Philippe de France, Duke of Orléans, Louis XIV’s brother, was originally styled Duke of Anjou. Did he give up the title of Duke of Anjou upon becoming Duke of Orléans ? If, on the other hand, he retained the title of Duke of Anjou, why didn’t the title pass to his male descendants ?

Thanks for answering.
I am not sure, but per Heraldica, Duke of Anjou was only a nominal title with which the brother of Louis XIV was styled and carried with it no physical duchy which could be inherited by his heirs. The same applied to the next Duke of Anjou, who took the Spanish throne as King Felipe V. I assume that is why the Spanish royal family became "de Borbón" rather than "de Anjou".
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Old 12-17-2018, 07:04 AM
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The title of Duke of Orléans when available was bestowed upon the second son of a French king or the younger brother of the King.

Example the future Henri II was Duke of Orléans up until the death of the his older brother the Dauphin.

Monsieur was Duke of Anjou up until 1660 as his uncle,Gaston was Duke of Orléans ,after his death in 1660,Louis XIV bestowed on Philippe.The lower title of Anjou was then bestowed upon a younger son of Louis XIV.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip..._Duke_of_Anjou
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Old 12-17-2018, 07:28 AM
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That whole Comte de Paris and Duc de France is laughable. Prince Henri is the head of the proud and illustrious Maison d'Orléans and should be Monseigneur le Duc d'Orléans. That is a real, legal and historic title. What is wrong with that?

I hope Prince Jean will end his (grand)father's vaudeville and simply style himself Duc d'Orléans indeed:
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Old 12-17-2018, 08:16 AM
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Titles of the sons of Henri II and Catherine de Médicis

Francois,Dauphin of France (later King)
Charles,Duke of Orleans (later King)
Henri,Duke of Anjou and Angouleme (later King)
François ,Duke of Alençon .
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Old 12-17-2018, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
That whole Comte de Paris and Duc de France is laughable. Prince Henri is the head of the proud and illustrious Maison d'Orléans and should be Monseigneur le Duc d'Orléans. That is a real, legal and historic title. What is wrong with that?

I hope Prince Jean will end his (grand)father's vaudeville and simply style himself Duc d'Orléans indeed:

That Title was alreaday given to his uncle Jacques by his grandfather the late Comte de Paris, so it is not availible for Prince Jean.
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