King Louis XVI (1754-1793) and Marie Antoinette of Austria (1755-1793)

[redrose_2121]

Marie Antoinette

I am soooo surprised not to find a thread devoted solely to Marie Antoinette! If anyone would like to discuss anything at all about her, I would be more than thrilled! She is a very intriguing character.

 

[redrose_2121]

sorry about the above quote. I don't know how it got in here, or how i misses this thread before. My apologies.

 

[silverstar]

with regards to Marie Antoinette, redrose,
you might find this lady very interesting
go here
Celebheaven • View topic - Mme Campan

 

[silverstar]

quote
I am soooo surprised not to find a thread devoted solely to Marie Antoinette!
end quote...
this is basically the Marie Antoinette thread

 

[redrose_2121]

Has anyone read Madam Campan's memoirs on Marie Antoinette? I have and thought they were very revealing. What did everyone else think? Also, @rosemilk, Marie Antoinette and Tsarina Alexandra were indeed distantly related. I forget exactly how, but I will try to find it for you.
@silverstar: yes, I realize that now. I didn't mean to post it in this thread, as I didn't realize that this thread existed until today. I don't know how I missed it! Sorry about that.

 

[monica17]

I've read that Madame Campan's memoirs are not totally reliable. She omitted many things (I think there was no mention at all of Count Fersen, strange.....) and many think she deliberately made the memoirs more positive so as to court the favour of the Bourbons, who were restored to the throne of France (they were displeased with her associating with Napoleon). I think Stefan Zweig and Antonia Fraser also disputed some of Madame Campan's accounts. So as far as accuracy is concerned, I don't think it would rank way up high in terms of reliability/ balanced view on Marie Antoinette and Louis XVI.

 

[silverstar]

Married at age 14 in 1770...
Marie became the new Dauphine of France.
She must have been a novelty at the French court... and everyones favourite.... certainly beloved by the King... King Louis 15 .
With her love of music... singing... playing the harpsichord.... she must have been quite charming


If only King Louis 15 had lived for another 10 years, it might have given Marie and the Dauphin
time to mature and be ready to take on the high office of King and Queen of France.


Marie, shortly after her marriage in 1770

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[LouisXVI]

King Louis XVI was NOT an imbecile!!! Louis XV of france kept his heir Louis-Ferdinand de France,away from the happenings of running a country and did a piss poor job of it. The people hated him after living such a happier time with Louis XIV. Louis-Ferdinand de Francedied when Louis XVI was 12 and was left to be instructed by none other then Louis XV. So he had No instruction and was made king when he was still a young man.

So having next to no knowledge of how to run a country.

Left with Louis XV impression of austrians stemming from HIS fathers views.

Louis XVI was married to an austrian who he thought was enemy, one cannot place judgement on this mans intelligence due to lack of education.

Blame the system, NOT the person who was created from it.

im·be·cile
n. 1. A stupid or silly person; a dolt.
2. A person whose mental acumen is well below par.
3. A person of moderate to severe mental retardation having a mental age of from three to seven years and generally being capable of some degree of communication and performance of simple tasks under supervision. The term belongs to a classification system no longer in use and is now considered offensive.

Louis XVI was none of this and was a real person.

 

[MAfan]

The people hated him after living such a happier time with Louis XIV.

As far as I know, people really hated Louis XIV, and even tried to hold his funeral cortege up on the way from Versailles to Paris.

Luois died when Louis XVI was 12 and was left to be instructed by none other then Louis XV. So he had No instruction and was made king when he was still a young man.

I'm sorry, but there are too many Louis in this phrase for my taste...Who is the Louis died when L. XVI was 12?

 

[LouisXVI]

As far as I know, people really hated Louis XIV, and even tried to hold his funeral cortege up on the way from Versailles to Paris.

His country had wealth when he was king. I'm talking more or ruling types then actual persons.

I'm sorry, but there are too many Louis in this phrase for my taste...Who is the Louis died when L. XVI was 12?

Louis-Ferdinand de France, his father.

 

[LouisXVI]

Alot of MA fans on here. One question that i must ask. In all the defense of her character and lack of education, does anyone here acknowledge the fact she was an adulterer?. I know its stated she isn't perfect, no body is. I just need to understand why this is always taken as a positive thing. She cheated on her husband cause he didn't pay much attention to her. Fersen was the love of her life blah blah blah.

I'm sorry, but if my husband broke with tradition and refused a mistress, was god fearing, intelligent ( even though people think he wasn't cause of indecisivness) and had no real addictions I wouldn't be running of with handsome soldiers, just cause I didn't get much loven.

I just think after all she put him through, even though he wasn't a saint either, he was the one who asked for forgiveness. I have never read anything on her saying "sorry Louis that I couldn't stay faithfull, or stop cashing in chips".

Having said that now heres another quandry. If she said that she would "Die at the feet of the king" who by all historic accounts isn't her lover of her life, why would she do that?. Was her lessons in being at the kings side always, instilled by her mother, that strong that she would die at the kings feet even thow she didn't love him?

I sure as hell wouldn't die for anyone I only had a strong attachment to. They would have to a supreme ultimate soulmate.

Is anyone confused yet?

 

[Furienna]

I might be totally wrong here, but I've heard about both Louis and MA being unfaithful.

 

[LouisXVI]

I might be totally wrong here, but I've heard about both Louis and MA being unfaithful.

my dear Louis would never be unfaithful. He's too precious! besides it took him seven years to consumate his marriage, i think playing on the side is the last thing he would do.

 

[Furienna]

You're right, I've heard about his... hm... sexual problems. I probably mixed him up with his grandfather, Louis XV (but didn't he become a widower rather early, so his later affairs can't be called unfaithfulness either).

 

[MAfan]

No, Louis XV's wife Queen Marie died when he was 58; he started cheating on her a lot of years before, and at least 8 of his illegitimate children were born during Queen Marie's lifetime.

 

[EmpressRouge]

Alot of MA fans on here. One question that i must ask. In all the defense of her character and lack of education, does anyone here acknowledge the fact she was an adulterer?

No one knows exactly for sure, and different biographers offer different opinions. But IMO (and many biographers') they probably had a serious flirtation but the relationship remained platonic. It would have been VERY hard for a Queen of France (always surrounded by courtiers, even in bed) to have pulled off a sexual liaison w/o somebody knowing. Second, Marie Antoinette grew up in her mother's court. And while her father did have some dalliances, Maria Theresa had a very strict moral code for herself, her court and her family. The notion of being physically unfaithful to her husband was probably impossible to MA.

But despite what historians say, movies tend to portray MA and Count Fersen having a full-blown love affair. First of all, it's Hollywood, and they like to sensationalize everything. Through the modern eyes, it's hard to believe that such a charming, vivacious MA could have stayed in a marriage w/ the dull Louis XVI w/o looking outside for love. If MA was so indulgent w/ fashion, parties, and gambling, why wouldn't she indulge in an affair? Modern audiences don't understand the strong sense of duty royals had and that not all politically arranged marriages meant the couple never got along. MA and Louis did develop a strong bond later towards their marriage, despite all his short comings, and they led an exemplary family life very different from his predecessors.

 

[Furienna]

No, Louis XV's wife Queen Marie died when he was 58; he started cheating on her a lot of years before, and at least 8 of his illegitimate children were born during Queen Marie's lifetime.

Okay, thanks for the information.

By the way, if you don't mind answering an off topic question, how many children did Louis XV have totally?

 

[MAfan]

I don't mind at all!
As far as I know, he had 11 children (in 11 years!) from his wife and at least 8 more children from six of his mistresses.

 

[LouisXVI]

Does anyone know about the alias used by them in the attempted escape? Were they just made up names or was it a acronym of some sort?

 

[monica17]

my dear Louis would never be unfaithful. He's too precious! besides it took him seven years to consumate his marriage, i think playing on the side is the last thing he would do.

Well, the author of Marie Therese: Child of Terror seems to think so otherwise, with a reference to a dispatch by Count Mercy in Vienna that Marie Antoinette was bearing the situation (with Gabrielle de Polignac, of all people) well, that her mother would've been proud of her.

Here is the link where I found said information... please read the comments below the post for the book author's note to the blog owner as to her explanation for said insinuation.

Tea at Trianon: Marie-Thérèse, Child of Terror

 

[monica17]

Does anyone know about the alias used by them in the attempted escape? Were they just made up names or was it a acronym of some sort?

I think the adults used Russian names although Louis-Charles was dressed up as a girl, and was called "Amelie".

 

[JulieS]

King Louis XVI was NOT an imbecile...

I agree with you. His education as king was bad and he lacked confidence because of this, but he was a good person. I think he was not happy as a king but he tried to do his best.

 

[silverstar]

Just a wonderful painting of Marie and her children
....
Celebheaven • View topic - Marie Antoinette


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[gogm]

For a set of Marie Antoinette images, please see:
SUBALBUM: Marie Antoinette, née Archduchess Maria Antonia | Grand Ladies | gogm

 

[IloveCP]

‘Marie Antoinette: The Scapegoat Queen’: A Documentary About the Last Queen of France. Plus, other Films about the French Monarchy | The Royal Correspondent

 

[silverstar]

thanks for the link
looks very interesting !

 

[HM King Edward VII]

No, I have not seen the movie, but happen to know a lot about this affair. The movie may have added a few minor lies to the storyline but otherwise the movie would be a good source of information. To formally answer your question, yes the movie is true.

 

[HM King Edward VII]

You are totally wrong. His Majesty King Louis XVI never cheated on Her Majesty Queen Marie Antoinette. He fully excepted the fact that she did though.

 

[HM King Edward VII]

Well, His Majesty King Louis XV, on the day he became widowed, it was his royal duty to try and find a wife suitable to be queen. Not to fool around and have sex with every girl he laid his eyes on. To be blunt, he was foolish.

 

[HM King Edward VII]

Well, I could not find anything about actual names used but I know the characters used to escape. Madame Tourzel(the Dauphin's Governess) was a Russian Baroness, the Queen and the King's sister played her maids, the King her butler, and the children played the Baroness' children.