Jean, Comte de Paris, Head of the Royal House of France, Wife & Family, Feb 2019 - - Page 6

Sancia · #**101** 04-28-2020, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

But in the end Philomena is no noble as her father was no noble. Nobility is inherited via the paternal line.

Indeed but she is not a "plain commoner" with no noble ancestors at all. Many nobles, even Gotha-related ones, have married a noble woman whose mother was a noble, or even a royal. The former Philomena de Tornos belonged to the same social circles than the non-reigning prince she finally married. This was not a surprising marriage.

Moonmaiden23 · #**102** 04-28-2020, 10:04 AM

Is Philomena's birth family comparable to the Mora y Aragon, the family of Queen Fabiola?

Duc_et_Pair · #**103** 04-28-2020, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by titiromi

The political elites in France come mainly from post-baccalaureate schools that we call "les Grandes Ecoles".

To enter these schools, one has to pass very difficult competitive exams that are prepared in preparatory classes (two years of preparatory classes). There are three kinds of preparatory classes: scientific preparatory classes, commercial preparatory classes, and literary preparatory classes. There are also grandes écoles which can be entered directly after secondary school following a competitive entrance examination but without a mandatory preparatory class.

To enter these preparatory classes, one needs an excellent academic record during one's secondary studies (high school and middle school), as well as very good grades in French baccalaureate. The problem is that not all high schools and middle schools are the same in France. Often, private schools are the ones that best prepare students to have an excellent record to enter these preparatory classes (with two or three exceptions in Paris). The difference between private Catholic schools and public schools is especially relevant for secondary education (before college). President Macron, for example, attended a private Catholic high school under contract with the state before entering the Lycée Henri IV (a very prestigious public high school which is one of the exceptions to the domination of private schools). He then entered literary preparatory classes, was admitted to Sciences Po (a "Grande Ecole" in political and social sciences) before being admitted to the Ecole Nationale d'Administration (another particularly elitist "Grande Ecole").

Studies have shown, for example, that 80% of the students who have managed to enter Polytechnique, which is the most prestigious military engineering school in France, come from 10 high schools and these high schools are all private Catholic high schools under contract with the state.

The school of Gaston is really different, it is not especially known to be one of those schools that get children into the Grandes Ecoles after high school. It is one of theses schools where children from very Catholic families who want to preserve their children are sent. France is secular yes but what determines parents to send their children to private Catholic schools under contract with the State depends not on their religiousness, but rather on the capacity of these schools to properly teach their children and to provide a more studious atmosphere. Whereas what determines parents to send their children to a private Catholic school independant from the state is defiance of the state school program (especially the teaching of gender theory), the willingness to give a very Catholic education to their children, and a traditional practising Catholic environment.

I have been on strictly Catholic schools from 4 to 11 years old. And on boarding school from 12 to 19 years old. I have been an altar boy, and later an acolyte. I can assure you: I am as libertarian as remotely possible.

But... the discipline, the structure, the rigid schedule of lessons, the daily homework under surveillance from 16.00 until 18.00 o'clock, the sports, art and music which was offered, it all gave me a great fundament for university and my career.

And Sweet Jesus, Virgin Mary and the whole circus? I shred it all from my shoulders: pfffwwwwt, like so many people have done. Nevertheless this Catholic knowledge helped me to understand art, architecture, literature, music, history. So I am grateful for the education and I have never attend a single Holy Mass anymore, out of free will, since I left College.

And all my classmates: all the same. It is not that we are all devout Conservative folks. All attempts by Father Oremus, Father Liduinus, Father Theobertus, Father Falco to make us devout Catholics: all failed.

So I do not have slightest worry that Gaston d'Orléans will become a Catholic zealot. His father is not. And his late grandfather was not either, seeing his divorce and remarriage. It is just an expectation in certain milieus to send their children to specific schools.

Sancia · #**104** 04-28-2020, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

I have been on strictly Catholic schools from 4 to 11 years old. And on boarding school from 12 to 19 years old. I have been an altar boy, and later an acolyte. I can assure you: I am as libertarian as remotely possible.

But... the discipline, the structure, the rigid schedule of lessons, the daily homework under surveillance from 16.00 until 18.00 o'clock, the sports, art and music which was offered, it all gave me a great fundament for university and my career.

And Sweet Jesus, Virgin Mary and the whole circus? I shred it all from my shoulders: pfffwwwwt, like so many people have done. Nevertheless this Catholic knowledge helped me to understand art, architecture, literature, music, history. So I am grateful for the education and I have never attend a single Holy Mass anymore, out of free will, since I left College.

And all my classmates: all the same. It is not that we are all devout Conservative folks. All attempts by Father Oremus, Father Liduinus, Father Theobertus, Father Falco to make us devout Catholics: all failed.

So I do not have slightest worry that Gaston d'Orléans will become a Catholic zealot. His father is not. And his late grandfather was not either, seeing his divorce and remarriage. It is just an expectation in certain milieus to send their children to specific schools.

I would be surprised when prince Gaston d'Orléans would not become a religious people, very pious and a practising Christian. His parents undoubtedly are, and the kind of school he has been sent to, although they are not the one in which I would send my children - and I am a practising Catholic -, is not among the favourite schools for upper-wanting-to-display-a-Catholic-habit-classes.

titiromi · #**105** 04-28-2020, 12:19 PM

Upper class children usually attend the local private catholic school under contract with the state near home when they are little. At age 11, they go to a good or even prestigious catholic middle school and high school (they are known and are situated in cities known for their poshness, Blanche de Castille high school and middle school in Versailles for example). When they are also practicing catholic, they usually are also scouts in the european movement or unitarian movement, they participate in chaplaincies, make pilgrimages for young catholics but still attend catholic schools under contract with the State.
Gaston went directly from being home schooled until the age of 8/9 (even if there are catholic schools in Dreux) to being sent in a boarding catholic school independant from the State and very far from his home. His school is not particularly prestigious.

Sancia · #**106** 04-28-2020, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by titiromi

Upper class children usually attend the local private catholic school under contract with the state near home when they are little. At age 11, they go to a good or even prestigious catholic middle school and high school (they are known and are situated in cities known for their poshness, Blanche de Castille high school and middle school in Versailles for example). When they are also practicing catholic, they usually are also scouts in the european movement or unitarian movement, they participate in chaplaincies, make pilgrimages for young catholics but still attend catholic school under contract with the State.
Gaston went directly from being home school until the age of 8/9 (even if there are catholic schools in Dreux) to being sent in a boarding catholic school independant from the State and very far from his home. His school is not particularly prestigious.

And let us not forget that the Comtesse de Paris comes from a traditionalist family : her father's Requiem mass was celebrated in a Society of Saint Pius X chapel.

Moonmaiden23 · #**107** 04-28-2020, 12:43 PM

Interesting, that HRH's family is affiliated with the ultra-right Society of Pius X.
I have a friend who has been trying(unsuccessfully) for years to get me to join.
I consider myself a fairly committed Catholic but these people take it to another level. I know that the Holy See lifted the excommunication of their founder Lefebvre, but I don't know their status today.

Have the new Count and Countess of Paris been granted an audience with the current Pope? Would they even accept one?

titiromi · #**108** 04-28-2020, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sancia

And let us not forget that the Comtesse de Paris comes from a traditionalist family : her father's Requiem mass was celebrated in a Society of Saint Pius X chapel.

Gaston's school is also managed by the Society of Saint Pius X.

titiromi · #**109** 04-28-2020, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23

Interesting, that HRH's family is affiliated with the ultra-right Society of Pius X.
I have a friend who has been trying(unsuccessfully) for years to get me to join.
I consider myself a fairly committed Catholic but these people take it to another level. I know that the Holy See lifted the excommunication of their founder Lefebvre, but I don't know their status today.

Have the new Count and Countess of Paris been granted an audience with the current Pope? Would they even accept one?

I think the Count of Paris is a committed catholic, traditional but not part of the Society of Pius X (his wife I don't know). The Count of Paris is close to Bishop Dominique Rey (who celebrated the late Count of Paris's funeral), this bishop launched along with Father Fabrice Loiseau the Society of the Missionaries of Divine Mercy, a society that celebrates Mass according to the Extraordinary Rite while remaining incardinated in the diocese.

Tatiana Maria · #**110** 04-28-2020, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23

I thought that Philomena, Comtesse de Paris was from a Spanish aristocratic background, though an obscure one?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

But in the end Philomena is no noble as her father was no noble. Nobility is inherited via the paternal line.

Surely that can't be the case for the Spanish aristocracy, which practices equal succession?

Sancia · #**111** 04-28-2020, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by titiromi

Gaston's school is also managed by the Society of Saint Pius X.

Yes. That is widely known, even though not official.

HereditaryPrincess · #**112** 04-29-2020, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23

I thought that Philomena, Comtesse de Paris was from a Spanish aristocratic background, though an obscure one?

I cannot imagine Jean marrying a complete commoner. Not at all.

Exactly. Philomena is from a Spanish/Austrian background of noble descent - she's actually a distant relative of her husband via Bohemian connections. Originally the Spanish side of her family were from the Basque county

Duc_et_Pair · #**113** 05-03-2020, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

Surely that can't be the case for the Spanish aristocracy, which practices equal succession?

Yes but Philomena's father was no nobleman. Her Spanish grandmother and her Austrian grandparents are/were noble, but her father was not.

That does not take away Doña Philomena de Tornos y Steinhart absolutely comes from a certain milieu, seeing her own union and that of her sister. They are used to mingle in traditional circles.

Having said that: as long as Jean d'Orléans and Luis Alfonso de Borbón mingle with ultra-conservative and Catholic fringe groups, they can forget any chance to return to the centre, but my assessment is both gentlemen know their case is dead and only alignment with fringe groups give them some "importance". But as France is a more and more secular state, with the overwhelming mainstream being atheïst or non-practicing citizens, it is a choice for a vegetative state of orléanism or légitimism.

**Marengo** · #**114** 05-03-2020, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duc et Pair

my assessment is both gentlemen know their case is dead and only alignment with fringe groups give them some "importance"

That is my exactly feeling as well and for more than just the French royal families. What is a pity for the Count of Paris is that these ultra-conservatives usually support the claim of Don Luis Alfsonso de Borbon.

maria-olivia · #**115** 05-03-2020, 01:07 PM

i am Member of a Royal Association. In less than 10 years a great part of our Members will alas pass away. They asked our Children to join but they don't want !
I think for France it is the same for the ultra conservatives etc.. Their case for both is dead !

Duc_et_Pair · #**116** 05-03-2020, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marengo

That is my exactly feeling as well and for more than just the French royal families. What is a pity for the Count of Paris is that these ultra-conservatives usually support the claim of Don Luis Alfsonso de Borbon.

The Comte de Paris still keeps a relatively lower profile than Don Luis Alfonso who is more visible in Catholic rallies. That the Comte sends his son Prince Gaston to a SSPX school indeed is back to tradition: but let us keep it in perspective: until the 1970's all French Catholic schools, were like that. The SSPX simply does not accept the renewals of Vaticanum II and has essentially placed a glass dome over an era in which garçons with short trousers went to Sacré Collèges, to get drilled by strict teachers. I mean: Louis de Funès, Charles de Gaulle, Rainier de Monaco: all have exactly experienced that schooling.

It is back to old school France. But hey: the last Bourbon King ended in 1848, that is almost alike pre-history now. No surprise that Gaston goes to a strict school, but he still has the secondary and academic educations to go, which will only enrich his world view. His father also had military service, so all by all it gives a wide spectrum: from ultra-catholics in La Profonde France to hedonistic libertarians at the Sorbonne. No worries.

eya · #**117** 05-14-2020, 11:43 AM

**Somebody** · #**118** 05-14-2020, 11:49 AM

So, Louise-Marguerite goes by 'Louise' (and knows how to curtsey) :) and Gaston is left-handed.

And great pics of the little ones with the animals...

Duc_et_Pair · #**119** 05-14-2020, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eya

Wonderful idyllic pictures.

HereditaryPrincess · #**120** 05-14-2020, 06:12 PM

It seems the family are taking home schooling very seriously - I like the way they've set up an informal classroom for them! Love the photos of them with the animals too.