Auction of the Estate of the late Count and Countess of Paris, 2008 / 2015


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
It is just so depressing to see royals sale their heirlooms and instead of keeping them
in the family.But it is their decision and just have to deal with it.Hoping that all the
people who won a piece of history treasure it forever.
 
Congratulations maria olivia! You made a very nice acquisition there.
I was in Paris to see the exhibition before the sale of the Succession de feus Monseigneur le Comte de Paris et Madame la Comtesse de Paris. So nice!
Yesterday, in France, there was a TV programm talking about the sale. If you want to watch it, click here : Patrimoine : Des enchères royales chez Christie's - REVOIR UNE EMISSION - Vidéos
 
Thank you so much VFH, it was almost as good as being there. I felt very sad to see Prince Jean outbid even though the buyer was very nice and showed great respect for the Prince.
I saw a glimpse at the beginning of those beautiful bracelets with portraits of family children. I wonder where they will go.
After seeing this I can´t think but how lucky Maria Olivia is to have managed to buy something. Congratulations again.
I remember well the family here in Portugal, such beautiful blonde children and so many of them. I think the only piece I would not have like to have owned is the razor....
Thanks again for this, I am now going to watch again.
Menarue
 
Cany anyone help me with this please- I have this little pewter brooch that I think probably started life as a button. At first I thought it was the emblem of Chambord but now I find it isn´t. I saw an embroidered cushion with this same pattern amongst the Comtesse de Paris´s belongings in a picture taken when she was still alive.
I would love to know more about it.

PB110997.jpg
 
Thanks a lot VFH 78 for the TV program concerning the royal auction , very interesting and sad to see. Friday I go to Christies/Paris to take my royal item.
The afternoon I will see the Van Dijck's Exhibition at the Jacquemart André Museum.That will be a royal day !
 
To Menarue and all the others , I went yesterday to Christies/Paris. I have my royal box.
In the official catalogue (sold out) they was a mistake: an other small box was printed with the good explanation and they made a new certificate. This is perhaps the reason why I could have the item ?
Nevertheless my certificate is with the coloured arms of feux le Comte de Paris et la Comtesse de Paris..
 
Congratulations Maria-Olivia, that is wonderful. What a terrific souvenir you have and you were very lucky by the sound of it.
Luck like that doesn´t happen that often.......
 
To Menarue and all the others , I went yesterday to Christies/Paris. I have my royal box.
In the official catalogue (sold out) they was a mistake: an other small box was printed with the good explanation and they made a new certificate. This is perhaps the reason why I could have the item ?
Nevertheless my certificate is with the coloured arms of feux le Comte de Paris et la Comtesse de Paris..


Congratulations Maria Olivia.
There was a scathing letter to the Point de Vue by a lady who was furious. She saw the photos of the children and grandchildren laughing during the auction. She wondered how they let a painting of Madame be sold to strangers and how France did not step in to buy some of the items. A Quatari apparently bought Marie Antoinette's purse.:eek:
 
It is always difficult to deal with these knid of matters : family heirlooms, heritage and so on...
First, let's keep in mind that none of the family members had the financial means to keep all the things and give the money to the other heirs. That is life.
Then, princesse Chantal and princesse Claude declared on french tv it was wrong to say they were selling everything, which is true.
Concerning the museums and their "not buying" things, you have to keep in mind that in order to buy something a museum, at least in France has to report to it's authority (ministry of culture) in order to prove the importance of the object and the need to buy it. Then a maximum price is established; I know for sure that The french museums wanted to buy 35 objects, but they really could not step in as the prices for the lots which interested them went to high. No one could have foreseen the interest this auction would have provoked. I know it is sad in a way but understandable.
I can't comment a lot on the following, but let's say that many, (i mean many) very important jewels and sceals have been bought by a french collectionneur who will cherish the and keep them safe and even told me he would gladly lend them for exhibitions. So everything is not lost.
And so many grandchildren of the late comte and comtesse de Paris managed to buy some items they really wanted, as well as a lot of the children. And they did it in perfect harmony with each other which is nice to know. Finally so many anonymous persons (even one on this board) managed to buy something they will cherish.
We might not be happy about the selling, but considering it could not have been done another way, let's be happy it went in a smooth and nice way and proved the french royal family is still popular with it's followers.
The funniest thing is that so many people who had resisted buying something during the auction, were trying to buy back from the lucky bidders after the auction.
 
I agree with you, Vincent about the delicate nature of these types of situations. I would imagine that the family did not feel joyous at the selling of their family heirlooms. It is a very unfortunate situation. Does anyone know if the any of the lucky bidders donated any of their purchases back to the family?
 
Sold is sold , I am proud about my royal item which was expensive.
A friend of mine said "The Comtesse de Paris would be happy you had it"
 
Sold is sold , I am proud about my royal item which was expensive.
A friend of mine said "The Comtesse de Paris would be happy you had it"

You have a part of history which is fantastic. When Princess Margaret's items went on sale I had my eye on one piece but the price far exceeded what I wanted to pay. You are lucky you got what you wanted. Cherish it!:flowers:
 
It was reported in a UK newspaper a few months ago that main reason for the auction was that the late Comte de Paris had squandered alot of the family fortune on his misstress Mrs Monique Friesz & the house they shared.
There were estimates that the fortune had been vastly reduced to around £10 million or less.
Fingers were pointed in the direction of Mrs Monique Friesz & the lavish refurbishment of the house.
I hope that they are able to recoup what has been lost.
 
Well, I think they are unlikely to restore the ancient fortune of the family, as it is reported to have been mainly lost much before this person met the late count of Paris.
 
I believe Ms. Friesz and the late count met in 1976, according to Vincent Meylan's book that is. In the early nineties the count sold several items, and later it was discovered he did so far under market value.

Still, most money he lost was due to his lifestyle before that (residences in Brazil, Belgium, Portugal, France), the financing of his various political causes and not to mention having 11 children....
 
Also, two of his financial councillors fleed with his money, in the late 50es and the 60es.
And I think he didn't inherit as much as one could have expected as a descendant of Louis-Philippe, who had granted truely enormous fortunes to his sons, and to his grandson the count of Paris. But, first, they had numerous families (6 married children for the count of Paris, four for the dukes of Guise, parents of the late count of Paris), they tried to remedy this problem by marrying between descendents of Louis-Philippe; secondly, the dukes of Guise are said to have spent very large amounts of money, both for political and vanity reasons, so that the fortune of the Orléans was not so considerable.
 
The huge orléans fortune was largely spent before the late comte de Paris inherited what was left of it. To give you an idea, i translated the amount of money inherited by the comte de Paris' uncle, the duc d'Orléans, in euros and it amounts to about 100 millions euros.

Nothing if you compare it to the fortune of the billionaires we have today; But this equivalence in money only (francs of 1900 into euros of 2009) does not take in account the huge variations in prices. For example, in 1900 a female servant was paid around 500 francs a year, which represents around 5000 euros of today.

Furthermore, there were no income taxes...
Therefore what the duc d'Orléans could afford in 1900 for a sum which equivalent in today's money is 100 millions euros, was much much more that what you would get today.

So it can be said the duc d'Orléans was a really rich prince. When he died in 1926 he left 10% of his original fortune. The huge estates in normandy, about 50 000 acres of woods, had been sold, as well as the château d'Eu, Wood norton manor in england and the main part of the shares he had inherited from his father and his uncle the duc d'Aumale.
And he left that very small fortune to his sister queen amélie of Portugal, includin gjewelry and heirlooms.

His younger brother, the duc de Montpensier died absolutely broke havin spent all his fortune. The only things left were the château de Randan and a few jewels he left to his widow.

When the comte de Paris's father, the duc de Guise, became the french heir to the crown, he owned around the equivalent of 50 millions euros in today's money. And when he died in 1940, that money was shared EQUALLY between his 4 children.
The comte de Paris got a quarter of this, and furthermore he had to wait untill his mother died in 1960 to get the main part of it.
Therefore most of the brilliant life, he, his wife and their 11 children led between 1950 and 1960 at the manoir du coeur Volant was led on credit, selling goods, parts of the forests they owned. And furthermore at the same time the comte de Paris made very bad investments which cost him at least one third of his estate( figures given by the comtesse de Paris).

The only raise in his level of fortune was the considerable changes which occured in the 60s, 70s and 80s, in the value of works of art. This is the reason why he stared selling.
He did not sell under market value, except for one thing, the famous parure inherited by queen marie amélie and which is now in the louvre in Paris. And for a very commendable reason, he AGREED to sell it to the museum at "stones value" before the auction which should have been conducted by Sotheby's in Geneva in 1985. Many rubbish has been said and written about this, but this has been confirmed officially by sotheby's who added that president Mitterrand had given the official authorization to sell the jewels in swizzerland to the comte de Paris.

When the comte de Paris died in 1999, his estate was valued around 16 or 18 millions euros (all included) and his 10 heirs shared it among them. The succession is not over yet because there is a second part of that fortune which consists of 75 works of art given by the comte and the comtesse de Paris to the fondation Saint Louis who owns the château d'Amboise, the chapelle royale de Dreux and the building in Paris where the comtesse de Paris used to live.
The story of the fondation is very long, but one thing is certain these buildings and châteaux were never the personal property of the comte de Paris, they belonged to the société civile du domaine de Dreux of which the comte de Paris was a very minor shareholder. The other shares belonged to all the other descendants of king LOuis PHilippe : the belgium, spanish, bulgarian, brazilian, portuguese and wurtemberg royal families. They all gave their shares in order to establish the fondation.

Coming back to the works of art, the fondation and the heirs have been talking for ten years about their future, but no agreement has been reached yet. As the gift was never officialized by a written act, the 10 heirs have a right of property on these objects. Should they be given some money, in lieu of, or should the objetct be given back to them ? This is all the question.

One thing is sure the value of these object should be established in millions euros. For example, the 40 drawings by Louis XIV, in a red leather album bearing his coat of arms, are priceless. Much more than the wallet embroided by Marie Antoinette which was the main lot of the last auction. Talking about Marie Antoinette, there is also a writing table which used to belong to her...

The 10 heirs have a good chance to inherit one day a sum of money, or some works of art worth that sum, which could bring them as much as what they have allready received.

If you compare this to the value of mme Friesz small house (around 300 000 euros) and the insurance she received (around 300 000 euros), you can draw your own conclusions. Furthermore it has to be said, that mme friesz estate has been largely examined by the french justice and it has been officially stated that she did not own anything more than what is mentionned above.

Sorry to be a bit long, but this thing is a bit (very) personal for me. And it has nothing to do with my writing a book about these persons. The comte de Paris was not a good businessman, he was not a good politician either, his relations with his family are his, and his children's business, but he was a very sweet, charming, fascinating and kind man who has a very special place in my memory.

Furthermore, and i know this might seem strange, he had a very special and strange charm, almost hypnotic, any member of his family or entourage wold confirm this.
And then, of course, he was such a "grand seigneur". His wife, the late comtesse de Paris, used to say "henri would look like a king even if he was sitting on a wood box".
I can still hear his very strange voice and it is amazing that ten years after he died, all the people who knew him, i mean staff, bankers, journalists, some of his children and grandchildren, not to mention his many nephews, still think about him as someone who really left a mark on us.

A few days ago, i was in a restaurant in paris with one of his grand children and a very famous writer came to us because he had recognized the grandson; First thing he said was : "Oh i do remember your grandfather so well, he was such a grand seigneur.."

P S : I did not say anything about the late comtesse de Paris because she does not need to be defended, you all know she was so unique, in a different way. And i am sure she would have agreed with all the lines i have written above.
 
Thank you Vincent about the posting. Regardless of what your relation was with the late comte, the writing was fascinating and informative.
From all I read so far, obviously from people who did not know him, the comte was a very difficult ,demanding, capricious man. You made me think again about how much we actually know from what we read in books and magazines.
 
Thank you Vincent about the posting. Regardless of what your relation was with the late comte, the writing was fascinating and informative.
From all I read so far, obviously from people who did not know him, the comte was a very difficult ,demanding, capricious man. You made me think again about how much we actually know from what we read in books and magazines.
I think this is a problem regarding maybe all royals...for example King Baudouin was said to be a sad man, but several sources assert the contrary, and the same is about Prince Philippe...
 
I think this is a problem regarding maybe all royals...for example King Baudouin was said to be a sad man, but several sources assert the contrary, and the same is about Prince Philippe...

Very true. I suppose this goes for almost everyone who does not go infront of the cameras to tell their own story.
 
I suppose that the two articles you (vincent) wrote for Point de Vue a few years ago discussed the matter too? I have read one of the articles, which was quite a struggle as my French isn't what it ought to be.

My memory of the late count and Ms Friesz is from articles that made it to my Dutch newspaper, which found it rather saucy to tell a story of a prince, selling the family heirlooms to finance a female friend and upsetting his children in the process. Now I suppose that newspaper (as well as many others) overreacted in order to make a juicy story for their readers.

Funny you should mention the 'grand seigneir' part of the late count. That was indeed the impression he made on me, judging from only a few photos. I believe he was the only non-reigning royal on the cover of the book 'De Europese vorstenhuizen : de gekroonde families die het oude continent maakten' by Christian Cannuyer (I guess because the late count wrote the prefix of the book) and he looked more royal than most reigning monarchs that were included there!
 
Last edited:
Thank you all for your comments. Very happy Marengo that you noticed the "grand seigneur" style of the comte de Paris. Let it be clear that i am not saying that he was perfect, fahr from this. Simply a
 
Vincent your book is fantanstic, I read it in two days ( french is not my language), I must congratulate you. I am a fan of the French Royal Family, in special of Madame and Monseigneur, they were such a unique couple.
Again thank yo so much for giving us such a marvellous book!!!
Do you know if there is a book with photos of the Royal family, the grand children and great grand children of Louis-PHilippe I ?
 
I have not checked this entry on the board for months and Claudia i do apologize for taking such a long time to answer you. Thks for your compliments. You are absolutely right in saying they were such a unique couple.
I do not think such a book as the one you are mentionning does exist. The closer you could find would be the album published by HRH prince Michael of Greece uisng his oncle's photographical archives (which sadly have all been sold). It is called :
"Henri, comte de Paris, mon album de famille".
Strangely, it seems i have some difficulties to leave them. I am currently writing another book which has nothing to do with the orléans family. The title is "Secret archives" Boucheron : 1958-2008. The idea is to explore the archives of that jeweller and explain all the customers (i mean from the past) what they bought and so on...
And guess who i found around in the archives books from the year 1950s ? The Comte and the comtesse de Paris who were very regular customers...
I guess some stories never end...
 
Thank you so much Vincent for all the interesting things that you tell us.
Please let us know when your new book will be published because I will be one of the first to buy it, no matter if I live at the south of the world.
 
200 items are not a lot but some of them are called "monument historique" et may not leave the Country (France)
 
To day September 29 th at 7.00 p.m. and to morrow at 10.30, after 10 days exhibition in Paris ,Sotheby's sells the very last Estate of Monseigneur et Madame le Comte et la Comtesse de Paris.
3 Items may not leave France.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom