Auction of the Estate of the late Count and Countess of Paris, 2008 / 2015 - Page 2

latin · #21 10-11-2008, 04:41 PM

Last treasures of the French royal family go under the hammer in Paris - Europe, World - The Independent

Menarue · #22 10-11-2008, 05:14 PM

Well at last it has been said. That is where the enormous fortune the Comte de Paris inherited is said to have gone. I had heard this years ago.
I saw a picture in Point de Vue of the purse and Queen Marie Antoinette did exquisite needlework. We can only hope that these things will stay in France.

auntie · #23 10-11-2008, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by latin

Last treasures of the French royal family go under the hammer in Paris - Europe, World - The Independent

It's stories like this which make my blood boil!

The old git, (royal or not) probably was sure his mistress was in love with him! wealthy old men just cannot see how foolish they look in the eyes of the world by hooking up to younger woman.

HRH Kerry · #24 10-11-2008, 08:19 PM

The estimated return on all of the treasures will not even equate to 1% of the original fortune inherited by the count. How sad.

maria-olivia · #25 10-13-2008, 01:32 PM

In a French newspaper of to-day " Vide-grenier historique."
The Countess de Paris died 5 years ago , Why this auction now?
The answer is : it is easier for her 10 Heirs (her 9 children and her grandson Robert de la Marche, son of the late Prince Thibault) to sell all .
Afterwards they will share and will have all the same money..
They expect 3 millions euros!

Menarue · #26 10-13-2008, 01:41 PM

I am with you auntie

Carminha Stalker · #27 10-13-2008, 02:02 PM

It´s sadly true, but how silly some old men (royal or not) are because of a woman. In this case, it makes your stomach turn and your hear ache. After all , many of those objects were historical and like somebody said here: poor Marie Antoinette if she could see her stuff sold by an heir of Philippe Egalité.

Odette · #28 10-13-2008, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auntie

It's stories like this which make my blood boil!

The old git, (royal or not) probably was sure his mistress was in love with him! wealthy old men just cannot see how foolish they look in the eyes of the world by hooking up to younger woman.

Auntie the Conte de Paris had a 30+ years relationship with the lady. He lived separated by his wife for a long long time. When he met the paramour he was not old.
His son and the current Conte did the same thing with his wife and children. The only difference was that he married her.

Odette · #29 10-13-2008, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Menarue

Well at last it has been said. That is where the enormous fortune the Comte de Paris inherited is said to have gone. I had heard this years ago.
I saw a picture in Point de Vue of the purse and Queen Marie Antoinette did exquisite needlework. We can only hope that these things will stay in France.

When the Comte was still alive the couple wanted to sell some of their property and the children went to court to stop them. There was an interview with Madame who said that they would go to court and ask their children to provide them with an income so they could pay their bills. If one imagines what was inherited, given or squandered it is a sad state of affaires. The 9 children and the grandson who inherited the estate have already kept a lot of items and property. Out of the entire lot the one that makes me the saddest is the purse Marie Antoinette embroidered.
On another note Gerstende D'Orleans the daughter in law of Madame has gone to court to force her 3 brothers to sell the castle her family owned and lived in for centuries, so she could get her share. The castle has been sold sometime ago and apparently each heir got their share.
The French friends on this thread can help us with this. I believe France has a law that property deemed to belong to France's inheritance cannot leave the country. This is how the Louvre aquired the jewels. Is this still the law? I hope so. I would really loved to see the purse in the Louvre someday.

pamk · #30 10-13-2008, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Odette

Auntie the Conte de Paris had a 30+ years relationship with the lady. He lived separated by his wife for a long long time. When he met the paramour he was not old.
His son and the current Conte did the same thing with his wife and children. The only difference was that he married her.

How true. And the poor ex-wife, Marie-Therese Duchess of Menpensier, had to raise their kids herself - two of whom are mentally handicapped.

Odette · #31 10-13-2008, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pamk

How true. And the poor ex-wife, Marie-Therese Duchess of Menpensier, had to raise their kids herself - two of whom are mentally handicapped.

I was shocked when the old Compte made Michaella a Princess de Joinville. He always was a bit bitter and vindictive. Madame must have had a rough road with him. If she could only see her property up for sale I am sure she'd be very upset.

maria-olivia · #32 10-13-2008, 04:46 PM

And the first book Madame wrote was : "Tout m'est Bonheur"..
Was she really happy ?? She always had an unbelievable royal look ..and...

Odette · #33 10-13-2008, 04:51 PM

I believe she learnt early on to put up with the Conte and she was busy raising her family. She had given a lot of interviews and she mentioned that some thought she was an "airhead" or something to this effect. I believe she was a strong woman a true aristocrat. She had a lot of tragedies in her life and she persevered. If she could watch her stuff being auctioned off she would not be happy at all.

pamk · #34 10-13-2008, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Odette

I was shocked when the old Compte made Michaella a Princess de Joinville. He always was a bit bitter and vindictive. Madame must have had a rough road with him. If she could only see her property up for sale I am sure she'd be very upset.

Michaella may have been made a Princess, but Marie Therese was made a Duchess, and I had always believed that the rank of a royal French Duchess trumped a French Princess.
It is funny how the press always refers to Henri, present Comte de Paris, as "The Comte de Paris and his wife." I have maybe seen just once where Michaella is referred to as the Comtesse de Paris.
Didn't Henri concoct a perfume line using the Orleans name in order to make some money?

maria-olivia · #35 10-13-2008, 05:29 PM

There was only one Comtesse de Paris and she died 5 years ago.
Michaella is just Princesse de Joinville.
Normely Comtess is less than Princess or Duchess , but la Comtesse de Paris is like in Spain the Countess de Barcelone .. Both deserve to be the heir's wife..

Odette · #36 10-13-2008, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pamk

Michaella may have been made a Princess, but Marie Therese was made a Duchess, and I had always believed that the rank of a royal French Duchess trumped a French Princess.
It is funny how the press always refers to Henri, present Comte de Paris, as "The Comte de Paris and his wife." I have maybe seen just once where Michaella is referred to as the Comtesse de Paris.
Didn't Henri concoct a perfume line using the Orleans name in order to make some money?

Marie was of a Ducal House before she married Henri. The old Comte sided with her before he sided with Michaela. Then again he passed the son over for the grandson and then changed his mind again.......

It is funny but when they'd ask the old Comte what did his heir do with his time he was saying "he paints"

I never warmed up to Michaela but the Orleans boys have strange tastes......
What sort of perfumes is he peddling??
Has anyone checked the Christie's catalogue??

maria-olivia · #37 10-13-2008, 06:25 PM

Twenty years ago Henri d'Orléans (son) was a painter and sold a perfume called Duc d' Orléans...
At this moment the Count of Paris ordered that only Jacques still remained Duc d' Orléans but his other 3 sons were not Orléans anymore.
Henri was Comte de Mortain ; Michel,Comte d'Evreux and Thibault,Comte de la Marche : the last two because of their non -accepted weddings.
He changed his mind for Henri , now Comte de Paris..
what a story ...

vincent · #38 10-13-2008, 06:32 PM

Just to make a few things clear :

The late comte de Paris did not dy broke;He left a fortune around 15 to 20 millions euros; Most of it has been divided among the 10 heirs, with, in plus around 2 millions euros left to the grandson the present duke of Vendôme.
Most of the 10 heirs got around 1,5 millions euros.
They kept the jewels which have been divided among them; Princess Claude for example got the diamond rivière (70 diamonds) and princess chnatal received a huge diamond brooch... and so on
The auction was dicided by them:
1) because they did receive items long time before, manly silver things and some paintings.
2)Because the collection was absolutely impossible to evaluate and therefor divide between the 10 heirs. Most of the objets have very low commercial value and a very high historical one;
3)Furthermore, many of the chiildren will be buyng things at the auction. They won't have to spend money because the amount of their purchase will be taken from their share of the global result of the auction;
as one of you said ,that auction is a wonderful opportunity for french museums to buy so many historical things, and they will; It is also a unique opportunity to view these objets for the first time; The four days of public visit have been a triumph for chritie's thousands of people have comme to see the collection.
Then, believe me or not, the best part is yet to be seen; the treasures which are worth many millions euros are still to be seen. Believe me.

pamk · #39 10-13-2008, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Odette

When the Comte was still alive the couple wanted to sell some of their property and the children went to court to stop them. There was an interview with Madame who said that they would go to court and ask their children to provide them with an income so they could pay their bills. If one imagines what was inherited, given or squandered it is a sad state of affaires. The 9 children and the grandson who inherited the estate have already kept a lot of items and property. Out of the entire lot the one that makes me the saddest is the purse Marie Antoinette embroidered.
On another note Gerstende D'Orleans the daughter in law of Madame has gone to court to force her 3 brothers to sell the castle her family owned and lived in for centuries, so she could get her share. The castle has been sold sometime ago and apparently each heir got their share.
The French friends on this thread can help us with this. I believe France has a law that property deemed to belong to France's inheritance cannot leave the country. This is how the Louvre aquired the jewels. Is this still the law? I hope so. I would really loved to see the purse in the Louvre someday.

Or maybe the purse could be obtained by the Carnavalet Museum which
has items used by the royal family while imprisoned in the Temple - this would be the perfect place as it might get lost in the Louvre which has so much on display

HRH Kerry · #40 10-13-2008, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vincent

Just to make a few things clear :

The late comte de Paris did not dy broke;He left a fortune around 15 to 20 millions euros; Most of it has been divided among the 10 heirs, with, in plus around 2 millions euros left to the grandson the present duke of Vendôme.
Most of the 10 heirs got around 1,5 millions euros.
They kept the jewels which have been divided among them; Princess Claude for example got the diamond rivière (70 diamonds) and princess chnatal received a huge diamond brooch... and so on
The auction was dicided by them:
1) because they did receive items long time before, manly silver things and some paintings.
2)Because the collection was absolutely impossible to evaluate and therefor divide between the 10 heirs. Most of the objets have very low commercial value and a very high historical one;
3)Furthermore, many of the chiildren will be buyng things at the auction. They won't have to spend money because the amount of their purchase will be taken from their share of the global result of the auction;
as one of you said ,that auction is a wonderful opportunity for french museums to buy so many historical things, and they will; It is also a unique opportunity to view these objets for the first time; The four days of public visit have been a triumph for chritie's thousands of people have comme to see the collection.
Then, believe me or not, the best part is yet to be seen; the treasures which are worth many millions euros are still to be seen. Believe me.

Some of your answers definitely shed light on many questions that have been asked especially why sell now. So it seems that some of these treasures will be kept in the family as well. Best is that France can retain some of the precious treasures for herself.