Nobility of France


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
See posts with no answers
How awful.

All the best for her.
 
Such awful news - I hope she makes an eventual recovery. Worrying for her family especially given the times we're in.
 
:previous:

How sad...So young.. And the poor children, 15 and 17 only..

"Hermione left us at 10.45 am this Friday after a month in a coma at the Kremlin Bicêtre Hospital after a tragic motorcycle accident. She died surrounded by her whole family," her brother Aynard von Clermont-Tonnerre and her ex-husband Alastair Cuddefort said in the press release.


May she rest in peace.
 
Very, very sad news.

May she rest in peace...
 
:sad: I had been confident that she would recover from the accident but it was not meant to be. What a tragedy for her poor children.:sad:
 
I thought that no news was good news but I was wrong, may she rest in peace.
 
Such tragic news. I feel so sorry for her family - especially given the difficult time we've all been having this year. :sad:
 
Princess Maria del Pilar Murat attended the birthday party for Massimo Gargia at the Hotel de Paris in Saint-Tropez, France, on August 20:



** Pic 1 ** Pic 2 **
 
Prince Joachim Murat attended the "Die on stage" : Christos Markogiannakis' Book Signing at the Greece Embassy in Paris on September 28:


** Pic **
 
The French Republic does not recognize titles but still employs a Garde des Sceaux de France (more or less comparable with the Lord Privy Seal in the UK). One of the duties of the Garde des Sceaux de France is to examine and verify -on request- if a person has a legal and valid claim to a title.

It comes down to a conflict about Nicolas de Broglie, son of the late 8e duc de Broglie, 7e prince de Broglie who was born out of wedlock. Nevertheless Nicolas inherited all from his father: from the enormous family fortune to the ancestral estates et al, but not the title Duc de Broglie.

Nicolas went to the Conseil d'État to complain about the decision of the Garde des Sceaux de France that he was no heir to his father's titles. The Letters Patent of Louis XV de France from June 1752 to the first Duke spoke about pour lui et l'aîné de ses mâles nés et à naître de lui en légitime mariage (for him and for the eldest of males born to him in a legitimate marriage).

Because Nicolas was not born inside a marriage, the title went to his father's younger brother Philippe-Maurice, now the 10th Duke. However, this 60 years old uncle of Nicolas is unmarried. His younger brother Louis-Albert has no sons either. This means the title risks to go to a remote relative somewhere.

Nicolas de Broglie argued that since 2005 the Code Civil no longer distincts between chidren born inside or outside a marriage. Therefore the Letters Patent of Louis XV was an infringement to law.

The Conseil d'État ruled: "The acts conferring, confirming or maintaining titles of nobility prior to the establishment of the Republic constitute acts of the sovereign authority in the execution of its administrative power, including the establishment, where appropriate, of rules of transmission for these titles. Consequently, the Letters Patent of King Louis XV of June 1742 are not among the legislative provisions liable to be referred to the Constitutional Council in application of article 61-1 of the Constitution."

(With other words: The King can do no wrong. The French Republic does not recognize titles. It is willing to attest to the practice (in which titles are still used) but in this case without importing the law of the Republic into the practice of nobility. Louis XV can rest in peace. His royal Letters Patent remain patent under the law of the Republic.


https://www.conseil-etat.fr/fr/arianeweb/CE/decision/2021-02-12/440401

Nicolas de Broglie owns the Château de Broglie, 500 hectare of forest and two maisons in Paris.
https://mecenatmh.fr/wp-content/upl...de-broglie-eure-demeure-historique-france.jpg

His eldest uncle Philippe-Maurice de Broglie, the current Duke, owns the monumental Grand-Hôtel de Tours.
https://cf.bstatic.com/images/hotel/max1024x768/260/260032524.jpg

His youngest uncle Louis-Albert de Broglie owns the Château de la Bourdaisière.
https://montjoye.net/images/Centre-...7/bourdaisiere/chateau-de-la-bourdaisiere.JPG
 
Last edited:
Do these French aristocracy have ambassador roles for France?
 
France is a republic. the former nobility have no role in politics.
 
Denville said:
France is a republic. the former nobility have no role in politics.
Click to expand...

I know but I am asking if they would want to have an ambassador role just to bring awareness to French culture, charities, history would the Gov't accept?
 
Kitty1224 said:
I know but I am asking if they would want to have an ambassador role just to bring awareness to French culture, charities, history would the Gov't accept?
Click to expand...

Im not sure what you mean. France is a very republican country, and I can't see anyone giving anyone a job just because tehir families once held a title. Ambassadors represent the French Goverment..not the arts....
 
Denville said:
France is a republic. the former nobility have no role in politics.
Click to expand...

There are many aristocrats acting as minister, ambassador, member of the Assemblée, Prefect or Mayor.

Victor-François de Broglie, 8e duc de Broglie (the father of this Nicolas de Broglie who started the lawsuit for the ducal title) was Mayor of Broglie and was vice-president of the Department de l'Eure (Normandy).

Nicolas' uncle Jean de Broglie, prince de Broglie, was a minister in four Cabinets. He was assassinated in 1976 by an extreme right group holding the Government responsible for "herds of blacks invading France".

https://www.franceinter.fr/emissions/affaires-sensibles/affaires-sensibles-07-decembre-2016

Valéry Giscard d'Estaing, the former President whom recently passed away, belonged to the haute bourgeoisie. His widow Anne-Aymone is noble: a daughter of a comte Sauvage de Brantes and of a princesse de Faucigny-Lucinge et de Coligny.

Another still alive widow of a former President is Bernadette Chirac, also a noble as a daughter of a baron Chodron de Courcel and of a comtesse de Brondeau de Uretières.

Former President Nicolas Sarkozy is born as Nicolas Paul Stéphane Sarközy de Nagy-Bocsa, nobility from Austria-Hungary. It shows that in the Republic the nobility still is apparent in the veins. Especially in the military, the magistrature, the prefecture, the diplomacy but also in politics.

The system of the Grandes Écoles is helpful for the next generations of the "us knows us". Let us say: a De Broglie easily enters this highway to the prestigious institutions of the Republic. Someone in a concrete block in a banlieue can only dream about it.

But of course you are right: no one is appointed as an Ambassador because of having a title. Not even monarchies do that, let alone republics.
 
Last edited:
Denville said:
Im not sure what you mean. France is a very republican country, and I can't see anyone giving anyone a job just because tehir families once held a title. Ambassadors represent the French Goverment..not the arts....
Click to expand...

Well obviously I wasn’t implying it was just because of their titles but if they wanted to have an ambassador role to represent France I think they could likely be given it just because there’s so much rich history within these families. You can be an ambassador of the French arts by appointment of the government though.
 
Duc_et_Pair said:
There are many aristocrats acting as minister, ambassador, member of the Assemblée, Prefect or Mayor.

Victor-François de Broglie, 8e duc de Broglie (the father of this Nicolas de Broglie who started the lawsuit for the ducal title) was Mayor of Broglie and was vice-president of the Department de l'Eure (Normandy).

Nicolas' uncle Jean de Broglie, prince de Broglie, was a minister in four Cabinets. He was assassinated in 1976 by an extreme right group holding the Government responsible for "herds of blacks invading France".

https://www.franceinter.fr/emissions/affaires-sensibles/affaires-sensibles-07-decembre-2016

Valéry Giscard d'Estaing, the former President whom recently passed away, belonged to the haute bourgeoisie. His widow Anne-Aymone is noble: a daughter of a comte Sauvage de Brantes and of a princesse de Faucigny-Lucinge et de Coligny.

Another still alive widow of a former President is Bernadette Chirac, also a noble as a daughter of a baron Chodron de Courcel and of a comtesse de Brondeau de Uretières.

Former President Nicolas Sarkozy is born as Nicolas Paul Stéphane Sarközy de Nagy-Bocsa, nobility from Austria-Hungary. It shows that in the Republic the nobility still is apparent in the veins. Especially in the military, the magistrature, the prefecture, the diplomacy but also in politics.

The system of the Grandes Écoles is helpful for the next generations of the "us knows us". Let us say: a De Broglie easily enters this highway to the prestigious institutions of the Republic. Someone in a concrete block in a banlieue can only dream about it.

But of course you are right: no one is appointed as an Ambassador because of having a title. Not even monarchies do that, let alone republics.
Click to expand...


Admission to the "Grandes Écoles" is not based on family name though, but rather on competitive entrance exams. As Denville said, France is a very republican country.


In the UK on the other hand, wasn't it customary in the past for people to get imperial jobs like Governor/ Governor General or ambassador based on family name? Lots of peers and sometimes even royals filled those posts, didn't they?



In fact, not so long ago, being a peer automatically gave you a seat in the UK Parliament and as member of the House of Lords, one could become a government minister or even a cabinet member. Margaret Thatcher still had hereditary peers in her cabinet for example. And individuals who were not peers themselves, but came from families in the peerage (sometimes younger sons or grandsons) were abundant in the civil service, the intelligence community and in royal household offices.



Of course there was also some involved meritocracy, but family name was an important element in the British social system. How is it today?
 
but this is about France and France has been a republic for about 150 years...
 
Mbruno said:
Admission to the "Grandes Écoles" is not based on family name though, but rather on competitive entrance exams. As Denville said, France is a very republican country.

[....]
Click to expand...

That is the theory. But in practice those from a school in a banlieue and not from an expensive private Catholic Collège (as Nicolas de Broglie in this case) or not having the means to arrange additional leasons, a private tutor, a remedial teacher or even a special preparation camp for the admission exams to the Grandes Écoles, have a massive disadvantage.

These Grandes Écoles are in the very heart of the tensions between the Republic's meritocratic ideals and the creation of a self-perpetuating, predominantly white elite on these bastions of "entre nous" that excludes many students from the provinces and France’s banlieues with high concentrations of immigrant communities.

The nobility, the haute bourgeoisie, the "old money" families, the notables in La France profonde, they still make it to the very veins of the almighty State or to France's powerhouses (the judiciary, the prefectures, Air France, Banque Paribas, the military academies, Total, Société Générale, etc.).
 
Kitty1224 said:
So what do these aristocracy of France do?
Click to expand...

Living their lifes. Like we all do. Sometimes in splendid circumstaces. In many French villaged you still see castles and mansions with the local noble family living there for centuries. There are also nobles who are in poor state.

In an investigation it was concluded that since the current parliamentary system started in 1870 (Third Republic) there have been 260 members from the aristocraty elected, which is a lot as it only represents the tiniest possible fraction of the population. It shows the elite knowing how to preserve. Interesting is that over this period the strongest representation came from the régions in the west of the country: Hauts-de-France, Normandie, Bretagne, Pays-de-la-Loire, Aquitaine.
 
Duc_et_Pair said:
Living their lifes. Like we all do. Sometimes in splendid circumstaces. In many French villaged you still see castles and mansions with the local noble family living there for centuries. There are also nobles who are in poor state.

In an investigation it was concluded that since the current parliamentary system started in 1870 (Third Republic) there have been 260 members from the aristocraty elected, which is a lot as it only represents the tiniest possible fraction of the population. It shows the elite knowing how to preserve. Interesting is that over this period the strongest representation came from the régions in the west of the country: Hauts-de-France, Normandie, Bretagne, Pays-de-la-Loire, Aquitaine.
Click to expand...

Interesting thank you! Some also does charities too or support the arts?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Blog Real
King Louis XVIII of France and Marie Joséphine of Savoy
Replies
2
Views
595
An Ard Ri
An Ard Ri
M
Family Bylaws Concerning the House Law of the House of Luxembourg-Nassau
Replies
1
Views
420
Tatiana Maria
T
Blog Real
King Philippe IV/I of France and Navarre and Joan I of Navarre
Replies
3
Views
422
An Ard Ri
An Ard Ri
M
Laws of the House of Grimaldi
Replies
3
Views
458
Tatiana Maria
T
Somebody
The Princess of Orange's preparation for her role as queen
Replies
20
Views
3K
kalnel
K

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom