Vatican City State: Pope Benedict XVI, January 2006 - February 2013

[Warren]

Pranter, scooter is correct.

It's never good form to shoot off a post declaring "you are wrong" as it comes across as quite rude and in this case it demonstrates that you haven't checked your facts.

[HRHHermione]

Originally Posted by Pranter

You are wrong.


LaRae

No she's not. Celibacy took a long time to fully take hold in the priesthood. It was recommended as early as the fourth century, but Scooter is perfectly correct in asserting that in the 12th century, the majority of priests and bishops were married, and were indeed leaving church assets to their families, which did help compel reform.

Clerical celibacy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As to your earlier assertion that one must not participate in the sacraments if one disagrees with certain social teachings of the church: That's also incorrect. One cannot receive the sacraments if one is in a state of mortal sin. Disagreement with church policy about matters that don't contradict major church teachings is not a mortal sin, it's venial at worst. I'd say most of the things it is vital for a Catholic to believe are summed up in the Nicene creed very nicely and I think any Catholic who believes in those tenets and has not committed a mortal sin since their last confession may receive the sacraments.

If doubt in the wisdom of church leaders was a mortal sin, there'd be almost no Catholics left.

Believing that gay people have the right to marry is not a mortal sin and certainly does not prohibit one from taking part in the sacraments.

[Warren]

Any further posts that have no relevance to the topic of Pope Benedict XVI, his failings and achievements, and where the Church goes from here, will be deleted.

Warren
TRF Admin

[scooter]

I am really hoping for a modernizing pope. The church is serious need. It has been hemorrhage ing members for a generation. I would also like to see the ordination of women, which would certainly cut back on the pedophilia issues. Even factions within the members of the clergy are calling for reform, such as the leadership council of women religious.

[Pranter]

The Church, of course, will never recognize so called 'gay marriage'. What the local/civil courts do is their own business. Neither should government force Churches to recognizes or participate in these things.


LaRae

[HRHHermione]

Originally Posted by Pranter

The Church, of course, will never recognize so called 'gay marriage'. What the local/civil courts do is their own business. Neither should government force Churches to recognizes or participate in these things.

LaRae

And that's exactly why Cardinal Dolan would do wise to keep his nose out of secular politics and focus on his church. No one has ever advocated forcing churches to participate, but the church has certainly advocated against changes to civil law that would change a lot of people's lives in a very positive way. Cardinal Dolan particularly would do well to remember that in America, civil law can not be based on or influenced by religious law, and to butt out of politics.

I think he'd be a terrible choice of pope. Exactly the wrong direction for the church to take.

[Pranter]

The Church is always going to be involved to some degree with politics because they cross over into religion.

[NGalitzine]

Originally Posted by Pranter

The Church is always going to be involved to some degree with politics because they cross over into religion.

If they want to get involved in politics, and campaign against civil laws and politicians fine.......just start paying taxes for the privilege, otherwise keep their traps shut.
.

[scooter]

Originally Posted by NGalitzine

If they want to get involved in politics, and campaign against civil laws and politicians fine.......just start paying taxes for the privilege, otherwise keep their traps shut.

Exactly so. I could not agree more.

[Princess Robijn]

With the election of the new Pope Francis, this thread is now closed.

The new thread, for Pope Francis and the Vatican City State, can be found HERE.