Royals Visiting The Pope - Page 11

amedea · #**201** 10-20-2009, 01:51 PM

so the day came and queen Paola was in WHITE!
deredactie.be: Koningspaar ontvangen door paus
quite funny that she is caught by cameras while checking that the veil is ok before entering the Pope's audience room.

MARG · #**202** 05-25-2010, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snowflower

Queen Elisabeth visiting the Pope in 1961 (from Corbis). I am kind of surprised by this outfit , the dress and the veil seems a little " overdramatic" on her - not that they are bad (I think they are wonderful), they just don't seem very QEII to me

She is a Head of State Officially visiting another Head of State, thus her black veil was attached by the Kokoshnik Tiara teamed with long the appropriate long dress and Prince Philipp is in full Military Dress.

Sort of the Anglican version of this: Queen Sofia Of Spain Pictures - Pope Benedict XVI Holds First Mass In Saint Peter's Square - Zimbio

Kotroman · #**203** 08-07-2010, 07:18 PM

I know that only the Queen of Spain, the Queen of the Belgians, Queen Fabiola of Belgium, Italian princesses and the Grand Duchess of Luxembourg are allowed to wear white in Vatican City. All others must wear black. Can you post photographs of them using their privilege?

Here is one of the Queen of Spain.http://www.life.com/image/54750733
In this one, the Grand Duchess of Luxembourg exercises her right.http://www.life.com/image/57555374
The Queen of Spain and the Grand Duchess of Luxembourg together.http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/RSaap...Sofia+Of+Spain
And this one features the Queen of the Belgians wearing white in Vatican.http://www.life.com/image/91728477
Finally, Queen Fabiola of Belgium wearing white in Vatican.http://www.life.com/image/51386544

Have they ever chosen to wear black? Why haven't the Princes of Monaco and Liechtenstein been granted the honour of Catholic Monarchs (which would enable their wives to wear white)? Is it true that Italian princesses can wear white?

And if I understand the privilege, it is not granted by the Pope to an individual but to any holder of the office. So, the Princess of Asturias and the Duchess of Brabant will both gain the privilège du blanc when their husbands ascend the throne, right?

And what if a monarch from a now abolished monarchy has been granted the honour of Catholic Monarch? Do the wives of their heirs enjoy the privilege today?

EmpressRouge · #**204** 08-07-2010, 11:37 PM

There are lots of photos and information in this thread.
http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...pope-2809.html

RoyalistRiley · #**205** 08-11-2010, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kotroman

I know that only the Queen of Spain, the Queen of the Belgians, Queen Fabiola of Belgium, Italian princesses and the Grand Duchess of Luxembourg are allowed to wear white in Vatican City. All others must wear black. Can you post photographs of them using their privilege?

So why do these monarchs get the privelige? Is it because they are Catholic?

Lumutqueen · #**206** 08-11-2010, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyalistRiley

So why do these monarchs get the privelige? Is it because they are Catholic?

Yes, because they are Catholic Monarchs they wear white.

As of July 2010, those to whom the privilège du blanc extends are Queen Sofia of Spain, Queen Paola of Belgium, Queen Fabiola of Belgium, and Grand Duchess Maria Teresa of Luxembourg. Consorts to French pretendants to the throne of France have also in the past appeared dressed in white before the Pope.

Kotroman · #**207** 08-11-2010, 10:10 AM

Being Catholic and being a monarch (or a monarch's wife) does not grant you the right to go to Vatican wearing white. As lumutqueen said, only those granted the title of "Catholic Monarch" have that privilege. The Princesses of Monaco and Liechtenstein, for example, do not have that privilege. They have to wear black, even though they are Catholic and royal, because the the title of "Catholic Monarch" has not been granted to rulers of Monaco and Liechtenstein.

EmpressRouge · #**208** 08-11-2010, 12:45 PM

Also, certain (non-reigning) families in Italy were granted the rights. Princesses from the House of Savoy can wear white (not just the queens). I'm still am not sure about Hapsburg Archduchesses of Austria. Has anyone seen pictures Princess Astrid of Belgium or Marie-Astrid of Luxembourg visiting the Pope?

amedea · #**209** 08-11-2010, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmpressRouge

Also, certain (non-reigning) families in Italy were granted the rights. Princesses from the House of Savoy can wear white (not just the queens). I'm still am not sure about Hapsburg Archduchesses of Austria. Has anyone seen pictures Princess Astrid of Belgium or Marie-Astrid of Luxembourg visiting the Pope?

As you can see here (canonization of Charles I) all archduchesses, the princess of Liechtenstein etc wear black. Queen Fabiola is very recognizable for wearing white. I would like to see if Zita used to wear white visiting the Pope. Did Sissi ever visited him?

4Pam · #**210** 08-11-2010, 05:41 PM

Is it only non reigning and reigning Catholic monarchs or can a wife president of a Catholic country wear white too?

amedea · #**211** 08-11-2010, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Pam

Is it only non reigning and reigning Catholic monarchs or can a wife president of a Catholic country wear white too?

It is only reigning (female) sovereigns of the countries that have the privilege. No president wife has the privilege.

EmpressRouge · #**212** 08-11-2010, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amedea

As you can see here (canonization of Charles I) all archduchesses, the princess of Liechtenstein etc wear black. Queen Fabiola is very recognizable for wearing white. I would like to see if Zita used to wear white visiting the Pope. Did Sissi ever visited him?

Are you referring to the photo on the previous page of the thread? Queen Paola is not wearing white but has the privilege, so I wonder if only Queen Fabiola chose to wear white that day?

Lalla Meriem · #**213** 08-12-2010, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmpressRouge

Also, certain (non-reigning) families in Italy were granted the rights. Princesses from the House of Savoy can wear white (not just the queens). I'm still am not sure about Hapsburg Archduchesses of Austria. Has anyone seen pictures Princess Astrid of Belgium or Marie-Astrid of Luxembourg visiting the Pope?

Princess Marie-Astrid always wears black. She attended the events around the beautification of Blessed Karl. She also visited numerous times with her bother and parents.

Kotroman · #**214** 08-12-2010, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amedea

It is only reigning (female) sovereigns of the countries that have the privilege. No president wife has the privilege.

It's not only reigning female sovereigns whose ancestors were proclaimed Catholic Monarchs that have the privilege. The consorts and widows of Catholic Monarchs can also wear white, and I am quite sure that former female sovereigns can also wear white. Did Grand Duchess Charlotte visit the Pope after her abdication?

amedea · #**215** 08-12-2010, 09:11 AM

Oh well yes, former sovereigns will wear white (such as Fabiola now..). I meant that usually the privilege is not used by members of former ruling royal families that had the privilege.

EmpressRouge · #**216** 08-12-2010, 11:19 AM

Marina, Princess of Naples wore white to see the Pope in 2003, as a princess of the deposed Savoy family.
http://www.angelfire.com/realm3/casa.../nineteen.html (scroll to the last picture)

Kotroman · #**217** 08-12-2010, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amedea

Oh well yes, former sovereigns will wear white (such as Fabiola now..). I meant that usually the privilege is not used by members of former ruling royal families that had the privilege.

By sovereign, I meant monarch (as opposed to consort). Anyway, it seems that princesses of Savoy and members of some other deposed royal families wear white, which would make sense, since no government can take away an honour granted by the head of another state (in this case, the Pope).

amedea · #**218** 08-12-2010, 04:43 PM

Marina of Savoy wore white once and she was heavily criticized for that.
The honour of the Pope is not granted to the head of families, but to sovereigns. Just as these pretendants don't use the title of king or queen if they were never actually sovereign, they do not have the privilege du blanc.
I don't think there is a difference if the queen or the grand duchess is the sovereign or the consort as far as this privilege is concerned.

Kotroman · #**219** 08-12-2010, 06:43 PM

Criticised by whom, if I may ask? Italian republicans? Supporters of the Duke of Aosta? Or Vatican officials?

Anyway, it seems that the Princess of Naples would disagree with your interpretation of the privilege. Someone also said they saw photographs of spouses of French pretendents wearing white.

amedea · #**220** 08-13-2010, 01:05 PM

Repubblica.it/Galleria di immagini: Il rientro dei Savoia:
Savoia junior & Bush senior cena d' affari per pochi intimi - Repubblica.it » Ricerca
In the first link above you'll see Marina wearing black visiting the Pope. What's her interpretation??
In the second one there is an article about the time she wore white, it was a Mass in St Peter Square and the Savoys didn't have direct acces to the Pope in that occasion. The article reports that, however, "someone" talked about this as a "gaffe", because even in this kind of occasion she was expected to wear black.
I remember having read at the time some more critical articles, too.