Prince Jean and Family, News and Events Part 1: June 2003 -

[Tatiana Maria]

The titles, if any, of his wife and son are unclear.

Under the terms of the house laws as they stand, the marital male-line descendants of the Head of the House, and their wives, are entitled to the title HRH Prince or Princess of Nassau only if the marriages follow the house law (§ 3b). Apparently, that means that the Grand Duke must grant his permission in writing (§ 3).

Without his written permission, they only become Count or Countess of Nassau.

We do not know whether the couple married with the Grand Duke's written permission.

And with Constantin it is even more vague, given that his own parents married without the official permission of Grand Duke Jean, and their children were only made HRH Princess and Prince of Nassau by the decree of Grand Duke Henri in 2004.

Décret grand-ducal du 18 juin 2012 portant coordination du Statut de famille du 5 mai 1907. - Legilux
https://www.luxarazzi.com/2014/01/fa...se-law-of.html

[Biri]

[QUOTE=Tatiana Maria;2362693]

We do not know whether the couple married with the Grand Duke's written permission.
/QUOTE]

I highly doubt the Grand Duke wouldn't have given it, giving that they have been living as a family since a few years
And Grand Duke's own son had a child first and later married.

[REAL COUNTESS]

What a surprise, a nice one at that. Best wishes for the young couple. Very nice dress. Little Felix is cute .

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by Biri

I highly doubt the Grand Duke wouldn't have given it, giving that they have been living as a family since a few years
And Grand Duke's own son had a child first and later married.

The Grand Duke did not give his official permission to the marriage of one of his own sons, who as you stated, also had a child first and later married. Had Prince Louis married with permission, his wife Tessy would have automatically become a Princess of Luxembourg under the terms of the house laws, both then and now. But he married without the written permission and Tessy was only granted her title three years into the marriage.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

The Grand Duke did not give his official permission to the marriage of one of his own sons, who as you stated, also had a child first and later married. Had Prince Louis married with permission, his wife Tessy would have automatically become a Princess of Luxembourg under the terms of the house laws, both then and now. But he married without the written permission and Tessy was only granted her title three years into the marriage.

As far as i remember it it was agreed that Prine Louis would not ask for permission. So the Grand Duke did not refuse to grant it.

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by Stefan

As faras i remember it it was agreed that Prine Louis would not ask for permission. So the Grand Duke did not refuse to grant it.

And likewise it is possible that Prince Constantin and Kathryn did not ask for permission.

[Somebody]

It would be a rather weird situation if a prince who is not in the line of succession would need permission to marry only to arrange a title for his new wife...

As Luxarazzi states 'the house law of 2012 muddles the waters' (see FAQ 9) but my interpretation would be that she will now be entitled to the surname 'zu/de Nassau'; and probably to the title 'Countess of Nassau' - just like her stepmother-in-law who also isn't known as a princess; because Henri did NOT give his brother formal permission to marry his second wife (like his father before him did not give permission for his first marriage) - which again, seems a rather moot point if you were already kicked out of the line of succession.

But, more importantly, congratulations to the couple and their son!

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by Somebody

It would be a rather weird situation if a prince who is not in the line of succession would need permission to marry only to arrange a title for his new wife...

Everything is possible with the poorly-written Nassau house laws, but in my view it would be "weirder" if the wives of princes who were never in the line of succession automatically became princesses with or without permission, while wives of princes who are/were in the line of succession need permission to marry (or else a subsequent gift of a title, as with Tessy) to become a princess.

Originally Posted by Somebody

As Luxarazzi states 'the house law of 2012 muddles the waters' (see FAQ 9) but my interpretation would be that she will now be entitled to the surname 'zu/de Nassau'; and probably to the title 'Countess of Nassau' - just like her stepmother-in-law who also isn't known as a princess; because Henri did NOT give his brother formal permission to marry his second wife (like his father before him did not give permission for his first marriage) - which again, seems a rather moot point if you were already kicked out of the line of succession.

I think the house law of 2012 is less muddled than the 2004 decree, but indeed it is vague how titles will work in Jean's branch of the family. My guess would be that Kathryn and her son will be Countess and Count of Nassau if formal permission wasn't given and Princess and Prince of Nassau if it was. Unfortunately, we have no knowledge of whether formal permission was given.

[maria-olivia]

I don't remember quite well what happened with Prince Jean ? He married Hélène Vestur after having a daughter before.
He had to renonce to his rights at that time when Grand Duke Jean was head of State and I think He did not attend the wedding ??

The same for his second Wedding with Diane de Guerre ?

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

Everything is possible with the poorly-written Nassau house laws, but in my view it would be "weirder" if the wives of princes who were never in the line of succession automatically became princesses with or without permission, while wives of princes who are/were in the line of succession need permission to marry (or else a subsequent gift of a title, as with Tessy) to become a princess.

Sure, to me it wouldn't really make sense of Jean's daughter-in-law would become a princess while his wife is only a countess...

I think the house law of 2012 is less muddled than the 2004 decree, but indeed it is vague how titles will work in Jean's branch of the family. My guess would be that Kathryn and her son will be Countess and Count of Nassau if formal permission wasn't given and Princess and Prince of Nassau if it was. Unfortunately, we have no knowledge of whether formal permission was given.

You would think that it should be possible to write clear and consistent house rules, so I wonder whether it was intentionally was left vague or that they intended for it to be clear but it just wasn't (a bit like the situation in Belgium).

Originally Posted by maria-olivia

I don't remember quite well what happened with Prince Jean ? He married Hélène Vestur after having a daughter before.
He had to renonce to his rights at that time when Grand Duke Jean was head of State and I think He did not attend the wedding ??

The same for his second Wedding with Diane de Guerre ?

I don't think Jean asked anybody's permission to marry Diane de Guerre; they wed in a civil ceremony in Roermond with very few people present - and nobody from his brothers/sisters or father. She only became a countess when the new house law came into effect.

[An Ard Ri]

Congratulations to the happy couple ,the children of Prince Jean must be very discreet and live quietly.

[Countessmeout]

Congratulations to the couple and whole family

Their son is adorable.

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

The titles, if any, of his wife and son are unclear.

Under the terms of the house laws as they stand, the marital male-line descendants of the Head of the House, and their wives, are entitled to the title HRH Prince or Princess of Nassau only if the marriages follow the house law (§ 3b). Apparently, that means that the Grand Duke must grant his permission in writing (§ 3).

Without his written permission, they only become Count or Countess of Nassau.

We do not know whether the couple married with the Grand Duke's written permission.

And with Constantin it is even more vague, given that his own parents married without the official permission of Grand Duke Jean, and their children were only made HRH Princess and Prince of Nassau by the decree of Grand Duke Henri in 2004.

Décret grand-ducal du 18 juin 2012 portant coordination du Statut de famille du 5 mai 1907. - Legilux
https://www.luxarazzi.com/2014/01/fa...se-law-of.html

In its article on the family reunion to commemorate the 100th anniversary of Grand Duke Jean's birth, the Court mentions Kathryn as HRH Princess Kathryn of Nassau.

https://monarchie.lu/fr/actualites/r...hateau-de-berg

This could signify that the couple asked and received permission for their marriage or that the Grand Duke made a decision to bestow a title on Kathryn.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

In its article on the family reunion to commemorate the 100th anniversary of Grand Duke Jean's birth, the Court mentions Kathryn as HRH Princess Kathryn of Nassau.

https://monarchie.lu/fr/actualites/r...hateau-de-berg

This could signify that the couple asked and received permission for their marriage or that the Grand Duke made a decision to bestow a title on Kathryn.

Their son is also described as HRH Prince Felix of Nassau in the photo description.

[maria-olivia]

His wife Diane is missing again such as Prince Nicholas of iiechtenstein

[Biri]

Prince Carl-Johann of Nassau (b.15 August 1992) [youngest of four children of Prince Jean of Luxemburg (b.1957) & his first wife Helene Vestur (b.1958)] & his girlfriend Ivana Jamin became parents this year!
Name and sex of the child are currently unknown.

Source: Descendants of Duke Wilhelm of Nassau

[sjetajiem]

On the official guest list of Marie-Astrid's wedding Ivana is listed as Ivan(n)a of Nassau.
The couple might be married.

[maria-olivia]

Princess Diane was not at the Family Gatering in Luxembourg but well at Princess Marie Astrid Wedding.
Is She no welcome in Luxembourg ?

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by maria-olivia

Princess Diane was not at the Family Gatering in Luxembourg but well at Princess Marie Astrid Wedding.
Is She no welcome in Luxembourg ?

Don't think so as she has attended several Events in Luxemburg. Prince Nikolaus was also not at the Family gathering.

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by sjetajiem

On the official guest list of Marie-Astrid's wedding Ivana is listed as Ivan(n)a of Nassau.
The couple might be married.

Where may we read the official guest list?