Popularity of the Monarchy Luxembourg

[RoyaltyPortuguese]

News and information about the popularity and the future of the monarchy of Luxembourg.

[Blog Real]

How is the popularity of the monarchy in Luxembourg?

[Blog Real]

https://www.luxprivat.lu/news/detail...monarchie.html

[Lee-Z]

doesn't sound good, but can i just ask what type of publication this is? Gossip? High quality?

[Blog Real]

Luxemburger Wort - Monarchie oder Republik

70% of the Luxembourgers are in favour of keeping the monarchy.

[Blog Real]

Originally Posted by Lee-Z

doesn't sound good, but can i just ask what type of publication this is? Gossip? High quality?

I don't think it's a serious publication. But someone here knows this publication?

[tommy100]

I'm not an expert but from what I have seen on this forum and others LuxPrivat doesn't seem to count as a trustworthy news source, more instead a gossipy magazine that, it seems, makes up lots of stories. Over the years I've noticed a number of stories which are simply factually wrong. I wouldn't put much, if any, trust in its articles.
Instead Luxemburger Wort is a much more factual, trustworthy source based on facts and real news and not gossip or make believe.

[melina premiere]

Privat is a tabloid, I think

[Prisma]

"A petition calling for the establishment of a Republic in Luxembourg will soon be opened for signature on the website of the Chamber of Deputies. Met on Monday, the committee has validated the proposal filed by a resident of the country. It wants to hold a "referendum" in the context of the constitutional review in progress.
[...]
Petition No. 703, should be open to signatures in a few days after the approval of the Conference of Presidents." (partial Google translation)

More: L'essentiel Online - Et si le Luxembourg devenait une République? - Luxembourg

[Blog Real]

This is a petition but I doubt that this go forward. The Kingdom of Luxembourg is very popular and people like the Grand Ducal Family. The monarchy is the image of Luxembourg. Long live the monarchy.


Yes the Grand Duke Henri and Grand Duchess Maria Teresa are popular, it is a fact. And from what I read on the internet about this subject, people continue to prefer the monarchy to Republic in Luxembourg, so I think the monarchy is safe in this country.

Petition calls for referendum on scrapping Luxembourg monarchy
Luxemburger Wort - Petition calls for referendum on scrapping Luxembourg monarchy

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Blog Real

This is a petition but I doubt that this go forward. The Kingdom of Luxembourg is very popular and people like the Grand Ducal Family. The monarchy is the image of Luxembourg. Long live the monarchy.

How do you know the grand-ducal family is 'popular'?

Besides that: popularity does not mean that people embrace a form of state in which the head of state is delivered by hereditary succession. I think the personal popularity of the Benelux monarchs Philippe & Mathilde, Willem-Alexander & Máxima and Henri & María Teresa is great but that is not the question which is asked. The question is if the citizens support a continuation of the present form of state, yes or no.

I would not put my hand in the fire for a 'secure result' of such a referendum. In all three the Benelux monarchies the status-quo is just as it is: "It has always been as it is". But no one was ever asked. When people really can answer in all honesty, in the privacy of the polling station, I would not be so sure about the outcome.

Such referendums also have a domino-effect: when Luxembourg succeeds to hold a referendum, Belgium and Spain -with strong separatist movements- will press for a referendum too. The Netherlands for so far only has corrective recerendums. There needs to be an Act to hold a referendum about: when a Parliament has approved an Act, the people can eventually "correct it". Until now it is not possible to hold a referendum when a topic is not in procedure in the States-General (Parliament). That is a hindrance for people wanting to question the monarchy, but I think the Dutch monarchy has a chance to fall indeed, despite the great personal popularity of several royals.

The often made wrong conclusion on these boards is that personal popularity = support for the form of state on base of hereditary succession. That conclusion is not correct. It is not one on one.

In Romania former King Michael has approval ratings any politician can only dream about. But there is no majority for the restoration of the monarchy, which proves that a personal popularity does not mean the form of state is popular too.

For an example: I am a conservative dude. Can a monarchy count on my support? Hmmm... I am not so sure. The so-called royal families have become more and more like any ordinary family, which brings the question forward: why vote for them? Just make a republic, then I can elect my own commoner as head of state. Fair enough.

[lucien]

Originally Posted by Blog Real

Petition calls for referendum on scrapping Luxembourg monarchy
Luxemburger Wort - Petition calls for referendum on scrapping Luxembourg monarchy

Couleur locale,or better it's cucumbertime in media and bananaland!
It will ride with wear.

[Michiru-Kaiou]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

Just make a republic, then I can elect my own commoner as head of state. Fair enough.

Or not. We (Germany) are a republic and I still don't get to have a say in who will be our head-of-state. We get him (or her, if it comes to it someday) dumped on our heads if we want him or not. And at one time we had five former Presidents who enjoyed their retirement (one of them is in his fifties and was in office for not even full two years) and are/ were paid quite generously by the state. And our President has about the same amount of political power as any European monarch. Our system can really disillusion you when it comes to republics.

best wishes Michiru

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by Michiru-Kaiou

And at one time we had five former Presidents who enjoyed their retirement (one of them is in his fifties and was in office for not even full two years) and are/ were paid quite generously by the state. And our President has about the same amount of political power as any European monarch. Our system can really disillusion you when it comes to republics.

best wishes Michiru

And recently our former president Walter Scheel died 37 years after having left office. For all this years he (like all former Presidents) still got money from the State and usualy the get an office provided by the State with Secretary, Referent and Office-director. And a Car with chaffeur.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Michiru-Kaiou

Or not. We (Germany) are a republic and I still don't get to have a say in who will be our head-of-state. We get him (or her, if it comes to it someday) dumped on our heads if we want him or not. And at one time we had five former Presidents who enjoyed their retirement (one of them is in his fifties and was in office for not even full two years) and are/ were paid quite generously by the state. And our President has about the same amount of political power as any European monarch. Our system can really disillusion you when it comes to republics.

best wishes Michiru

Of course Germans have a choice. The Bundespräsident is elected by a giant forum consisting of the Bundestag and the parliaments of all the German states. Yes, neither Joachim Gauck nor Richard von Weiszäcker had to campaign and were selected after being nominated by their parties. But in the end it were the representants of all Germans, in the federation and in the different states, making a vote for the Bundespräsident.

Even Obama has never been elected by the US people. The people of the different states vote for representants in an electoral college per state and they elect the President. I think Germany is actually a great example of a honourable citizen being elected and representing the state with great style in that splendid Schloss Bellevue.

When it comes to that argument, the Grand-Duke will always loose because at least the Bundespräsident has a (indirect) democratic mandate, which he -per definition- does not have. We have sern with the Brexit, the Scottish independence, Catalonia, the various EU treaties, etc. that there is no secure outcome. In my personal opinion the three Benelux monarchs have wobbly thrones. Note that a monarchy which wins the referendum with a narrow margin also is in danger. The monarchs themselves always speak about "being born by the people" but when the support is 51-49% then that victory will be a Pyrrhus victory.

Note that the Luxembourgers are (almost) outnumbered by immigrants who do not have that emotional attachment to the grand-ducal family. When your roots are in republican Portugal where they have kicked the King out and you were formed in a republican state, it is not sure that they will vote for maintaining a monarchy.

[Marengo]

Are foreign nationals allowed to vote in a referendum? Of course the Portuguese must be the 2nd or 3rd generation by now, so it is likely most are Luxembourg nationals. I do not know how people from immigrant backgrounds regard the monarchy in Luxembourg. In my own country the monarchy is especially well regarded by immigrants.

Referendums in Luxembourg are non-binding AFAIK (as they are in the UK). I find referendums in general problematic in parlementary democracies as it means mob-rule, ignoring parlement -which is elected to represent the will of the people- and thus is thoroughly undemocratic. It is a favourite tool used by dictators and demagogues.

Another problem with a referendum is that it usually attracts people to the voting booth that want to vote 'no' against the system and are disgruntled for many reasons, not perse the monarchy. The results are not neseccarily a reflection of the will of the people either. The amount of signatures needed for such a referendum is usually set far too low, as in these days of internat petitions you can find a high number of signatures rather easily. Another other problem is that there is a clear system on one hand (present monarchy) and something unclear on the other hand: a president, but what powers, what costs, how will he/she be elected, what will be the costs of changing the system? People will project their hopes and wishes on the unknown, while in reality a republic is likely to be more costly for starters.

I agree with the possible domino-effect of such a referendum. Dark forces in at least the rest of the Benelux will probably seek a simular referendum. These days 40% of the voters seem continuously disaffected with any kind of authority and 'power', which is worrysome indeed. Although I am confident that in The Netherlands the monarchy is stable enough to overcome such a referendum, these discussions are never good for the institution. The last thing Europe needs right now is more unstabily, considering all the more pressing matters that are going on already.

[Michiru-Kaiou]

Originally Posted by Stefan

And recently our former president Walter Scheel died 37 years after having left office. For all this years he (like all former Presidents) still got money from the State and usualy the get an office provided by the State with Secretary, Referent and Office-director. And a Car with chaffeur.

Yeah. And going by the young age of Christian Wulff (and yep, I do wish him a long life) this could easily be surpassed.

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

Of course Germans have a choice. The Bundespräsident is elected by a giant forum consisting of the Bundestag and the parliaments of all the German states. Yes, neither Joachim Gauck nor Richard von Weiszäcker had to campaign and were selected after being nominated by their parties. But in the end it were the representants of all Germans, in the federation and in the different states, making a vote for the Bundespräsident.

Do you really think, that any German voter has the Federal President in mind when s/he casts his/ her vote in the Bundestag or Landtag elections? Surveys in quite a few elections suggested, that the candidate, that happened to have the best chances in the Bundesversammlung wouldn't gain a majority if elected directly. Latest examples were Joachim Gauck himself and Gesine Schwan, who both would have most likely won over their opponents in a direct vote. Not Horst Köhler, or Christian Wulff.

Even Obama has never been elected by the US people. The people of the different states vote for representants in an electoral college per state and they elect the President.

Correct me, if I'm wrong, but as far as I know, the electors are bound to vote for the candidate they were elected to elect in at least the first round.

I think Germany is actually a great example of a honourable citizen being elected and representing the state with great style in that splendid Schloss Bellevue.

You have a higher opinion of our Presidential system than many Germans. I'd love to say a lot about Wulff, but I guess that'd stretch the "no politics" rule of this forum too far. And it wouldn't add anything to the "why abandoning monarchy is a bad idea" discussion on this thread.

When it comes to that argument, the Grand-Duke will always loose because at least the Bundespräsident has a (indirect) democratic mandate, which he -per definition- does not have.

I still remember the one time Horst Köhler refused to sign a law. The ruckus he caused with that decision was phenomenal with not few politicians questioning whether he even had the right to refuse the decision made by the Bundestag and Bundesrat.

Originally Posted by Marengo

Another problem with a referendum is that it usually attracts people to the voting booth that want to vote 'no' against the system and are disgruntled for many reasons, not perse the monarchy.

This. I still think many Brexit voters woke up the next morning and thought: "Oops, that's not what I wanted."

Well, another reason why I'd really recommend Luxembourg to stick with what they have is, that it at least brings about stability. In a monarchy you know what you have and what comes afterward. Republics don't have that luxury. And monarchies have heads-of-state who are supposed to be neutral and unifying. Something you cannot really say about republics. Even in our system, where the Federal President is supposed to be neutral, too, you will always know where he came from.

best wishes Michiru

[Duc_et_Pair]

That is why I hope and pray that the petition in Luxembourg will not attract enough signatures: for the domino effect. "Hey... if they can so progressive in that sleepy grand-duchy to hold a referendum, why deny the Dutch or the Belgians a say about their form of state?"

That a referendum is "advisory" means nothing. The latest "advisory referendum" in the Netherlands (on the EU Association Treaty with Ukraine) only attracted 32% of the voters but all parties in Parliament promised "to respect the outcome" of that referendum. So "advisory" is only in name, it will always be pretty decisive.

I also object against petitioning via one mouse-click. In some countries there is a digital entrance to the Government. You have to log in with an account to do your tax assessment, to manage your health service, to communicate with the municipality, etc. If people petition via that specific digital entrance, okay... But just going to a website: "Away with the monarchy: sign here!" and then present 40.000 internet signatures to enfore a referendum...

[Moonmaiden23]

The people of the US do not directly elect the President, it's true Duc. But their electors from the Electoral College determine who to cast their electoral ballots based on whom the people of those respective states have voted for.

And all States are not created equal in the College. To be quite blunt for example, California, New York, Ohio, Texas and Pennsylvania carry more Electoral clout than Montana or Alaska. So who the people of those states vote for determine who their Electors cast their ballots for.

In a roundabout way the people of the US ultimately do indeed elect the President of the US.

Except for in 2000, which is a subject we will agree not to delve into.

[BeatrixFan]

This seems to be a problem with this new idea of online petitions being significant enough to warrant either a referendum or parliamentary time. In the UK, the suggestions for various petitions range from the emotional to the downright loopy but very few actually ever get debated. I imagine that it's a numbers issue, Luxembourg doesn't have a very large population and so maybe the barrier for when such a petition becomes a topic for debate or a vote is set too low? Either way, it seems to me that one bored republican has managed to grab the attention of people who are just generally disaffected with the government and have signed up using the Grand Ducal family as a scapegoat.

Which can be very dangerous, as the Brexit vote here proved. Before this sort of online petition business started, the government would look at polls and assess the need for a parliamentary debate. And with the Grand Duke's approval rating being consistently high and support for the monarchy in Luxembourg being equally impressive, perhaps it would never have got a headline, let alone a serious possibility of an actual referendum being held?