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  #121  
Old 04-01-2020, 06:45 PM
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Why? All over the world, husbands don't share their wives' titles, so why is it specifically unfair to Alexandra?

Even within her own family: Her cousin Marie Christine's husband is still a count (not an archduke) and her cousin Marie-Gabrielle's husband is mr Willms (not HRH prince Antonius of Nassau).
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  #122  
Old 04-01-2020, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
But in Belgium (offspring of Astrid), the Netherlands (offspring of Margriet) and Sweden (offspring of Madeleine), in hindsight, they regret the ease with which the princely titles have been distributed, with a flood of Von Österreich-Estes, Van Vollenhovens and O'Neills being a member of the Royal House and having a princely title. Not for nothing in all three named countries the titulature has been limited, basically to children of the King and children of the Heir, regardless the gender. Luxembourg will undoubtedly go the same way. If Alexandra marries a prince de Lobkowicz, her children will be princes and princess de Lobkowicz anyway. She has it in her own hand if she is attached to titles for her offspring.
Probably at some point but so far Henri created more princes and princesses of Nassau instead of fewer (Jean's children and Louis' former wife and children). Moreover, the new house law already provides a limitation/a rather easy solution: by not approving a marriage wife and children will become counts/countesses of Nassau instead of princes/princesses of Nassau.

I believe Gabriel and Noah's titles are personal titles that cannot be passed on (as they would need a recognized marriage for that to happen, which is impossible; so their wives and children will be countess and counts/countesses if I am not mistaken).
Amalia cannot pass on her title (the only exception would be if she had been the heir apparent but with the upcoming birth of her cousin that's not likely to happen). So, Liam is currently the only one who can pass on his title in his generation. If they would want to limit the titles, his grandfather or uncle could decide not to approve his marriage. It will probably depend on whether Guillaume and Stephanie will have more than one child and whether his sister will have offspring (so depending on how secure the succession is).
In addition, Sebastien might have sons but as he isn't married yet, we'll have to wait and see.

Prince Guillaume's three sons could also pass on their 'prince of Nassau' titles, however, I wouldn't be surprised if Henri would 'suggest' they don't ask for permission. Unless, we should interpret the house law not to apply to them as they are male line descendants of the former head of the house, not of the current one.
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  #123  
Old 04-01-2020, 07:40 PM
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Well said. Grand Duke Henri was responsible for manufacturing the "flood" of princes and princesses of Nassau (in addition, he created Prince Robert's children at the same time as Prince Jean's), so it is unlikely he would be sympathetic to limiting this title to children of the Grand Duke and the Heir.

I am not even sure that the sons of Prince Louis, Prince Jean, and Prince Robert cannot pass their titles on. In the grand-ducal decree of 2004 the title Princess/Prince of Nassau was accorded to "the descendants", and not merely "the children", of Princes Robert and Jean:

Quote:
L'épouse de Son Altesse Royale le Prince Robert, née Julie ONGARO est autorisée à porter le titre d'Altesse Royale, Princesse de Nassau.

Les descendants issus de cette union de même que les descendants issus de l'union de Son Altesse Royale le Prince Jean avec Madame Hélène VESTUR sont qualifiés de la même manière.

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Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
Why? All over the world, husbands don't share their wives' titles, so why is it specifically unfair to Alexandra?
The original poster did not say that it was "specifically" unfair to Alexandra. As it was, Princess Alexandra was the topic of the specific question, even if women's inequality exists in naming practices all over the world.


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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
But in Belgium (offspring of Astrid), the Netherlands (offspring of Margriet) and Sweden (offspring of Madeleine), in hindsight, they regret the ease with which the princely titles have been distributed, with a flood of Von Österreich-Estes, Van Vollenhovens and O'Neills being a member of the Royal House and having a princely title. Not for nothing in all three named countries the titulature has been limited, basically to children of the King and children of the Heir, regardless the gender.
What leads you to conclude that Belgium and Sweden "regret the ease with which the princely titles have been distributed, with a flood of Von Österreich-Estes [...] and O'Neills" (and the children of Prince Laurent and Prince Carl Philip bear the same princely titles as their cousins, so do they also regret the "flood of Coombs and Hellqvists"?) and have limited them "to children of the King and children of the Heir"? Nothing has been stated in Sweden about the future children of Prince Oscar. In Belgium it is evident from the Belgian king's decree in 2015 that, if nothing else, Princes Gabriel, Emmanuel, Nicolas, and Aymeric can pass princely titles to their children, and one can assume Prince Joachim will pass a princely title (and an archducal title) to his children in the same manner as his brother.
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  #124  
Old 04-01-2020, 08:13 PM
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In Belgium prince Lorenz (husband of Princess Astrid) was granted the title of Prince of Belgium.
In Sweden the King wanted to give the title of Prince to Chris (husband of Princess Madeleine) but he refused.
So it's not impossible that Princess Alexandra's future husband could have the title of prince.
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  #125  
Old 04-01-2020, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Blog Real View Post

In Belgium prince Lorenz (husband of Princess Astrid) was granted the title of Prince of Belgium.
In Sweden the King wanted to give the title of Prince to Chris (husband of Princess Madeleine) but he refused.
So it's not impossible that Princess Alexandra's future husband could have the title of prince.
Nothing is impossible but I am sure that Henri considered that option when he revised the house laws not that many years ago. At that time he decided that children will bear their father's surname and that husbands of princesses of Luxembourg and/or Nassau will NOT become a prince; the only exception being the husbands of either the grand duchess of the hereditary grand duchess.
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  #126  
Old 04-02-2020, 12:04 AM
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If a hereditary grand duchess marries a foreign prince, does he receive the title of Hereditary Grand Duke?
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  #127  
Old 04-02-2020, 01:44 AM
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Yes, and I understand that. But at least the Grand Duke should offer a title to Princess Alexandra's future husband, since the wives of Princess Alexandra's brothers also have titles, it would be fairer even if Alexandra's children had no titles.
But no any female spouse has been offered a title either: Joan Douglas-Dillon, María Teresa Mestre, Hélène Vestur, Diane de Guerre, Sibilla Weiller, Stéphanie de Lannoy, Claire Lademacher, Tessy Antony, etc. In principle all these ladies are addressed by their husband's style and title, purely by courtesy, like is done all over Europe.

This old-fashioned (but most clear) form is still used in Belgian nobility: de barones/la baronne Renaud de Villenfagne de Sorinnes, de gravin/la comtesse Thierry Meeûs d'Argenteuil, de burggravin/la vicomtesse Paul de Jonghe d'Ardoye.

La pincesse Félix de Luxembourg is a more accurate form to designate the position of Claire. Or de prinses Constantijn der Nederlanden for Laurentien. This is no longer used and "princess Claire" or "princess Laurentien" looks like they have received an own royal title, but they have received nothing at all. In essence there is no difference with a Pieter van Vollenhoven, a Salvador Moncada or a Christopher O'Neill who received no title either. The only difference is just the custom to address a female spouse with her husband's title.
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  #128  
Old 04-02-2020, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
But no any female spouse has been offered a title either: Joan Douglas-Dillon, María Teresa Mestre, Hélène Vestur, Diane de Guerre, Sibilla Weiller, Stéphanie de Lannoy, Claire Lademacher, Tessy Antony, etc. In principle all these ladies are addressed by their husband's style and title, purely by courtesy, like is done all over Europe.
The house laws accord the titles legally to both the princes and their female spouses, wording it in much the same way as the Belgian royal decrees: "In the public and private acts which concern them". Indeed, the wives are addressed by their titles in legal acts, including the divorce judgment of Princess Tessy.

The Grand Duke has usually shown himself to not be in favor of addressing female spouses of royal princes by courtesy titles. The wife of Prince Jean, who did not receive a princess title under the house law, is addressed by the grand-ducal court as Countess Diane of Nassau, rather than Princess Diane (or Princess Jean) of Luxembourg.

In any event, a courtesy title is a title, and I am not expecting one to be given to the husband of Princess Alexandra.

While "ladies are addressed by their husband's style and title, purely by courtesy" is true for many European countries, it is not the case "all over Europe". In the United Kingdom, for instance, a wife legally takes on her husband's title upon marriage, although she may choose not to be addressed by it (royalty watchers have often discussed this in relation to the Duchess of Cornwall).


Quote:
Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla View Post
If a hereditary grand duchess marries a foreign prince, does he receive the title of Hereditary Grand Duke?
No, the husband of a hereditary grand duchess will receive only the title of Prince of Luxembourg through the current house laws (for a translation, refer to the link in message #117). He will not even receive the title of Prince of Nassau or the last name of Nassau.
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