Succession and Membership Issues

[Somebody]

At this point a change would be impossible without declaring Princess Aiko the heir. Anything else would be denying her the throne in favor of a different woman and would be a PR nightmare

In my opinion, the 'Luxembourg' scenario in which a women are allowed to ascend the throne if no male descendants are left would not deny her the throne in favor of a different woman, as Hisahito would remain the heir of his generation. It would only open up the possibility for the continuation of the imperial reign in case Hisahito wouldn't have a son.

In theory they still have a lot of time before they are at this point. The main reason to think this through right now, would be to keep the former emperor's granddaughters as imperial princesses after marriage as it would be a little weird to first kick them out of the family when their is a chance they -or their children- might be needed in the future...

 

[Tatiana Maria]

In my previous post I mentioned "by lack of males".
And trust me, if Popes and Emperors can abdicate, they can install a female Empress. Everything for the continuation of the monarchy. The core business of the mighty IHA.

The IHA has no power to install an Emperor/Empress, any more than Buckingham Palace or Dutch Royal Household can install the next King/Queen. In every one of these countries Parliament, and Parliament only, rules over the succession. It was Parliament that enacted special legislation permitting the Emperor to abdicate.

It would indeed seem more likely that they adopt the former Luxembourgish practice that females can inherit ONLY if there are no male-line male descendants; if they would instead opt for male-preference, suddenly Aiko would be first in line but that seems extremely unlikely.

By "male preference", I assume you are implying the practice in the Spanish and Monegasque monarchies, where sons are preferred over daughters but daughters are preferred over brothers and nephews? As you said, it was the former Luxembourgish practice (semi-Salic) which preferred all (male-line) males over all females.

In principle, Japan could implement gender-equal succession (as proposed by the Koizumi administration in 2005) but only for future generations, much like Belgium, Norway, Luxembourg, and Britain.

At this point a change would be impossible without declaring Princess Aiko the heir. Anything else would be denying her the throne in favor of a different woman and would be a PR nightmare

Which woman would you have in mind? The heir to the throne of Aiko's generation, her cousin Hisahito, is a boy, and even in a scenario where the next prime minister modifies the succession law to absolute primogeniture, I am sure he would remain the heir of his generation given that he is already a teenager (just as Norway and Belgium allowed the male heirs to keep their positions when they adopted absolute primogeniture).

In normal situation by lack of males it would be: the closest related to the Emperor, then the closest related to the Emperor's sibling, then the closest related to the previous Emperor.

Under Emperor Naruhito:
1. Princess Aiko of Naruhito
2. Princess Mako of Akishino
3. Princess Kako of Akishino

Under Emperor Akishino:
1. Princess Mako of Akishino
2. Princess Kako of Akishino
3. Princess Aiko of Naruhito

Of course any child born by these princesses will affect the line: a daughter by Aiko will come before her cousin Mako as long as she is the heiress.

It would be Mako's son indeed.
When William passes away, George is Heir to Charles and not Charles' younger son Harry, despite Harry being closest relative to Charles. Same principle.

But what the British Parliament has historically preferred is not necessarily what the Japanese Parliament would prefer.

A minor clarification: Princess Aiko's "surname" is Toshi, not Naruhito (which is her father's given name), and Crown Prince Akishino's given name is Fumihito.

 

[Kuro]

What bothers the Conservatives is not to have a reigning empress but to have these children succeed her because it means a change of dynasty if this empress marries a commoner.
I read an article not long ago that several members of the LDP (Liberal Democratic Party in power of Prime Minister Shinzo Abe) were planning to draft a bill to allow unmarried men from former imperial branches (Ōke) to return to imperial status by adoption or marriage. And I even read in this article that there would be 7 single men in these former imperial branches: 5 teenagers and 2 in their early twenties. So yes, these collateral branches do have male heirs, and very young.
Princesses Akiko (38), Yoko (36) and Tsuguko (34) are far too old to marry such young cousins, the age gap is far too big.
Princess Mako (28) is already engaged in a relationship with Kei Komuro but since the controversy over the financial problems faced by the Komuro family that led to the postponement of their marriage in 2020, we do not know whether this marriage will take place or not. Princess Mako is approaching her 30s, so again, the age gap is significant.
Princess Kako (25 years old) is still well into her twenties, it remains possible but well, I doubt it will be done.
Princess Aiko, 18 years old, is the only one who has an appropriate age to marry one of her cousins.
If Aiko marries one of her cousins from the collateral branches, she can rule because her husband is a member of the imperial family, he has just been reinstated so there will be no dynasty change, it is not a commoner and then Aiko is the only child of the Emperor and it is better to follow the direct line of succession (unlike Hisahito). And their children can succeed their mother because their father (Aiko’s cousin). But this does not guarantee stability, because if the couple does not have children or boys afterwards: still a dead end. And if they only have daughters, they will have to marry a cousin to succeed their mother?
So it is not a lasting solution but this marriage can be a good compromise: the conservatives will agree because there will be no dynasty change on the throne and the progressives who support an egalitarian succession will also be. I think that can be a good start towards the total change of succession rules, Japan is not ready for that yet. And then Shinzo Abe will not be Prime Minister forever, he will leave power in September 2021 and the ceremony of proclamation of the crown prince Akishino is postponed, maybe even that it will be until then?
Personally, I hope that the Emperor himself will leave his right of reservation on the question, the only way to get public opinion to react and to push the Prime Minister to change the rules. I do not know the opinion of the Emperor, but we are still talking about his family and his dynasty, and to continue with the current rules will only participate in the extinction of the imperial family. (sorry for my bad english)

Article (in japanese) : https://www.sankei.com/life/news/191028/lif1910280004-n1.html

 

[victor1319]

I read an article not long ago that several members of the LDP (Liberal Democratic Party in power of Prime Minister Shinzo Abe) were planning to draft a bill to allow unmarried men from former imperial branches (Ōke) to return to imperial status by adoption or marriage. And I even read in this article that there would be 7 single men in these former imperial branches: 5 teenagers and 2 in their early twenties. So yes, these collateral branches do have male heirs, and very young.

A simple solution, that would multiply the possible heirs... - and by that make everything even more complicated. It is not easy to form an opinion here. But very interesting! Thanks!

 

[Muhler]

Congratulations on your first post, Kuro.

And a very informative post at that.

I'd like to ask you:
Would the conservatives applaud a marriage between Princess Aiko and one of these seven young men, brought in from the cold so to speak?
And if there was such a marriage, would the conservatives accept Princess Aiko as the reigning empress, with her husband (who is in the bloodline) as consort?
Or would they insist on a male emperor, even though the bloodline is intact from both sides? After all Princess Aiko has been born into the "imperial world" and doesn't need as much readjusting as her husband.

Another question for all in the know: Does the Imperial family have any association with these seven young men?

 

[Somebody]

Are you thinking about the Morihiro Higashikuni-family? Given that he was born as a prince and married the emperor's aunt; their descendants seem to be the most likely family to adopt back into the imperial system.

For those not knowing who I am talking about:
Emperor Hirohito's eldest sister Shigeko, Princess Teru married prince Morihiro Higashikuni (eldest son of prince Naruhiko Higashikuni and princess Toshiko (9th daughter of emperor Meiji who granted prince Naruhiko his own branch); 7th son of prince Kuni Asahiko; son of prince Fushimi Kuniie; head of the 'principal branch' of the family to provide a heir to the throne in case the line dies out)

Shigeko, princess Teru (1925-1961) married 1943 her cousin prince Morihiro Higashikuni (1917-1969); they had 5 children:
* Prince Nobuhiko Higashikuni (1945 – 2019); married 1973 Ms Yoshiko Shimada - one son:
** Yukihiko Higashikuni (b. 1974)
* Princess Fumiko Higashikuni (1946); married Mr. Kazutoshi Omura; and Mr. Takagi Daikichi.
* Hidehiko Higashikuni (1949)
* Naohiko Higashikuni (1953); married to Ms. Kazuko Sato; two sons:
** Teruhiko Higashikuni
** Mutsuhiko Higashikuni
* Yūko Higashikuni (1954) married Mr. Azuma Naooki.


After the death of his first wife, (former prince) Morihiro Higashikuni married 1964 Ms Yoshiko Terao; two children:
Atsuhiko Higashikuni (1966)
Morihiko Higashikuni (1967)

So, if the ones highlighted in 'Bold' have sons, they seem to be the most likely options for the 'solution' that was proposed above - or any attempt to reinstate former branches. Although it would surely complicate things as how would it work to both have Hisahito as well as Aiko 'fighting' for the same throne. And probably the current emperor and empress wish a more private life for their daughter...

 

[Kuro]

Thank you, Muhler!

Restoring the old Ōke branches is a very unpopular proposition (we saw it very well in the Kyodo poll of a few days ago) so if it is Aiko’s cousin who finally rises to the throne in place of Aiko following their marriage (only to preserve the patrilineal succession) it will be very difficult to obtain public support. It is better that this cousin remain only an emperor consort if the Conservatives do not want to see the imperial family lose credibility with the public. The Conservatives know that very well, and I think they will accept it. What matters to them is the dynasty at close range, and as long as it remains unchanged, it is the main one. And then this proposal was proposed by the LPD, which is a very conservative party.
I also know that there would be only three branches with more than 2 generations of male heirs, I do not find the source but it is the branches Higashikuni, Kaya and Takeda so logically, these 7 male heirs would come from these 3 branches.

Extinct : Nashimoto, Yamashina, Kitashirakawa, Higashifushimi, Kan'in
At risk : Fushimi, Kuni, Asaka (either no son or grandsons)
Safe (2+ generations of male descendants) : Kaya, Higashikuni, and Takeda

Fushimi : current head Hiroaki (87) has 3 daughters.
Kuni : current head Kuniaki (90) has 2 sons but no grandsons yet.
Unknown if Kuniaki's brothers Asatake & Asahiro have son or grandson Asaka : heir (born 1972) is single.

I also found this photo of any imperial family taken in the 1995 years where the old branches that lost their imperial status in 1947 are also present: http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/remmikki/imgs/a/8/a8233376.jpg

Most of the people in the picture must be dead by now. Many still hold high positions in the Shinto religion that only members of the imperial family can hold. Look at the case of Naruhito’s sister, Sayako, who lost her imperial status in 2005 and has since become high priestess of the shrine of Ise by succeeding her aunts Atsuko and Kazuko, daughters of Hirohito, and there must be many other functions that are unknown.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

What bothers the Conservatives is not to have a reigning empress but to have these children succeed her because it means a change of dynasty if this empress marries a commoner.
I read an article not long ago that several members of the LDP (Liberal Democratic Party in power of Prime Minister Shinzo Abe) were planning to draft a bill to allow unmarried men from former imperial branches (Ōke) to return to imperial status by adoption or marriage. And I even read in this article that there would be 7 single men in these former imperial branches: 5 teenagers and 2 in their early twenties. So yes, these collateral branches do have male heirs, and very young.
Princesses Akiko (38), Yoko (36) and Tsuguko (34) are far too old to marry such young cousins, the age gap is far too big.
Princess Mako (28) is already engaged in a relationship with Kei Komuro but since the controversy over the financial problems faced by the Komuro family that led to the postponement of their marriage in 2020, we do not know whether this marriage will take place or not. Princess Mako is approaching her 30s, so again, the age gap is significant.
Princess Kako (25 years old) is still well into her twenties, it remains possible but well, I doubt it will be done.
Princess Aiko, 18 years old, is the only one who has an appropriate age to marry one of her cousins.
If Aiko marries one of her cousins from the collateral branches, she can rule because her husband is a member of the imperial family, he has just been reinstated so there will be no dynasty change, it is not a commoner and then Aiko is the only child of the Emperor and it is better to follow the direct line of succession (unlike Hisahito). And their children can succeed their mother because their father (Aiko’s cousin). But this does not guarantee stability, because if the couple does not have children or boys afterwards: still a dead end. And if they only have daughters, they will have to marry a cousin to succeed their mother?
So it is not a lasting solution but this marriage can be a good compromise: the conservatives will agree because there will be no dynasty change on the throne and the progressives who support an egalitarian succession will also be. I think that can be a good start towards the total change of succession rules, Japan is not ready for that yet. And then Shinzo Abe will not be Prime Minister forever, he will leave power in September 2021 and the ceremony of proclamation of the crown prince Akishino is postponed, maybe even that it will be until then?
Personally, I hope that the Emperor himself will leave his right of reservation on the question, the only way to get public opinion to react and to push the Prime Minister to change the rules. I do not know the opinion of the Emperor, but we are still talking about his family and his dynasty, and to continue with the current rules will only participate in the extinction of the imperial family. (sorry for my bad english)

Article (in japanese) : https://www.sankei.com/life/news/191028/lif1910280004-n1.html

Welcome, and thank you for the thoughtful first post, Kuro! Your English is quite good.

I am not sure I would want the Emperor to speak more publicly in pressuring for reforms to the Imperial House Law. Personally, I join in the feeling that as the head of the dynasty, he ought to at least be consulted on issues impacting on the monarchy. But ultimately legislation is the prerogative of the democratically elected Parliament, and these are divisive issues, and a frank intervention by the Emperor would be seen as inappropriately political. I think the family's current method of having Crown Prince Akishino vaguely mention the issue in his regularly scheduled press conferences is a suitable compromise.

But a line of succession with only one person in the next generation (as P. Akishino is the same generation as the emperor) is anything but safe. You can't be 100% sure that Hisahito will have sons, maybe he won't have children at all. And in that case it might be a good idea to have a safety line installed as a back-up. And that probably should be decided before Mako and Kako get married. I get the impression that P. Akishino likes the idea of his daughters keeping Imperial status after marriage. Not only would that be a safety line for the list of succession, but it would also ensure that young Hisahito will have the full support of his sisters as full working members of the Imperial Family.

The main reason to think this through right now, would be to keep the former emperor's granddaughters as imperial princesses after marriage as it would be a little weird to first kick them out of the family when their is a chance they -or their children- might be needed in the future...

I completely agree (even though the government does not). In addition to allowing princesses to keep their membership, amending the succession laws would probably be helpful to Hisahito as he takes on his eventual duty to find a suitable wife.

As things stand, any potential wife will comprehend that if she and Hisahito do not bear a son, it will cause a national political crisis - and she will probably be blamed for it. This will surely not help Hisahito persuade a woman to marry him ...

 

[Prisma]

Defense minister backs maternal line sons to become emperor : The Asahi Shimbun

Defense Minister Taro Kono came out in strong support of allowing male offspring of the maternal imperial line to ascend the Chrysanthemum Throne to ensure stable succession.

Appearing on an internet news program on Aug. 23, Kono sharply differentiated himself from the stance of the Abe administration, which remains hesitant about having an emperor from the maternal line.

[...]

He explained that a paternal line of emperors has continued for more than 1,000 years and said he had no qualms about continuing the practice if a male successor was available.

But he also cited the cases of Empress Masako and Crown Princess Kiko and expressed doubts about whether women in the future would want to marry into the imperial household.

[...]

He also came out in favor of allowing female members of the imperial household to retain their imperial status even after marriage and set up their own imperial family line. [...]

With that as a precondition, Kono speculated about a future when there were no sons from the paternal line.

“One possibility would be having offspring of female imperial household members, beginning with Princess Aiko, to become emperor,” Kono said.

Kono has pointed out in the past the importance of ensuring the imperial line is maintained and not get caught up over whether a son was from the paternal or maternal line. In a blog post in October 2016, he called for reviewing the Imperial House Law to allow women and sons from the maternal line to become emperor.

Under his proposal of 2016, the rules of imperial succession would be changed to allow all children of the emperor, regardless of gender, to be eligible for succession depending on their order of birth.

[...]

Japan defense minister suggests considering 'matrilineal emperors' for stable succession - The Mainichi

... "Are there really any women who would choose to join the (next generation) Imperial Family when they see Empress Masako and Crown Princess Kiko (wife of Crown Prince Akishino)? There will be tremendous pressure to give birth to a boy..."

Male-line imperial succession 'extremely risky': Japan defense chief | The Japan Times

Kono Rapped for Comments Tolerating Maternal-Line Emperors - JIJI PRESS

Japanese Defense Minister Taro Kono, who is seen as a possible candidate to succeed Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, is drawing flak from conservative lawmakers in the ruling Liberal Democratic Party for suggesting that members of the Imperial Family's maternal lineage should be allowed to become Emperor. [...]

 

[Prisma]

Hrmph.

Japan may shelve imperial succession decision - Japan Today

The Japanese government may shelve making a decision on how to achieve a stable imperial succession despite parliament calling for a swift report of discussions on the matter, government sources said Saturday.

[...]

"A decision cannot be made until we see whether Prince Hisahito will have a male child," one of the sources said.

The government has said it will begin full-fledged discussions after ceremonies to proclaim Crown Prince Fumihito's rise to first in line to the throne [...]

When a one-off law was enacted in 2017 to allow the former emperor's abdication, parliament adopted a nonbinding resolution for the government to consider measures ensuring stable imperial successions and swiftly report the outcome without a deadline.

But as the nation remains split on the matter of succession, including whether to allow women or members in the maternal line to ascend the throne, Prime Minister Yoshihide Suga plans to focus on the establishment of a digital agency and deregulation among other top policies of his administration.

While public approval for establishing women emperors and female-headed branches of the imperial family is growing, calls for continuing to pass the throne down the male line remain strong among conservative individuals, including restoring the imperial status of unmarried men from collateral branches of the family.

In case the Japan Today link expires, here's the same article at Japan may shelve imperial succession decision despite parliament calls - The Mainichi

 

[Muhler]

Weeeell, there's a surprise!

Why are arch-conservatives so afraid of women?

 

[Ista]

This is completely predictable. It would have been more astonishing if the decision had been to have a substantive discussion about the issue. I can't help feeling very sorry for whoever Hisahito marries; with the precedent of the pressure Masako faced, he may well have a difficult time finding a woman who wants to take all that on.

 

[yukari]

Weeeell, there's a surprise!

Why are arch-conservatives so afraid of women?

Maybe it has something to do with Shinto religion?
The Emperor is also the Head of the Shinto religion. And women are not allowed to enter Shinto shrines and temples during menstruation, and in some instances, women are completely banned from climbing the tops of sacred mountains due to their 'impurity'.

 

[Heavs]

So they're just kicking the decision to the future hoping a teenager's future wife has a son. This is exactly what is still causing problems for the family this time around. The sensible thing to do would be to attempt to sort it out now, even if they're hoping Hisahito has a son.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I can't help feeling very sorry for whoever Hisahito marries; with the precedent of the pressure Masako faced, he may well have a difficult time finding a woman who wants to take all that on.

The pressure could be even heavier since Hisahito's wife will be solely accountable (as with Masako, her husband will be considered blameless, but unlike Masako, she will have no sister-in-law to step in to provide the male heir) for heading off a political crisis by producing at least one son.

Furthermore, she could have to carry the burden of being one of only two royals working to represent the country in the world's largest monarchy, populationwise.

And in this day and age, social media raises the odds that any skeletons of wife candidates as well as their families and friends will be exposed and destroy reputations, as we saw with the firestorm over Kei Komuro and his mother.



On the flipside, traditionalists know perfectly well that Hisahito is the only male heir of his generation, and that if he remains unmarried because the woman he loves is unsuitable, the window will open for the selection of a female-line descendant through Mako, Kako, or Aiko as his successor.

So ironically, traditionalists may be more generous to Hisahito in regard to his choice of wife, because for an arch-traditionalist it would be better to have an untraditional (e.g. a reality television star and glamor model with a history of offensive gaffes and scandals) empress consort than to be reigned over by an uncontroversial emperor from a female line.

 

[Somebody]

Hrmph.

Japan may shelve imperial succession decision - Japan Today

In case the Japan Today link expires, here's the same article at Japan may shelve imperial succession decision despite parliament calls - The Mainichi

Making a decision on a 'stable' succession is halted? Not sure how the one male nephew of the emperor with a male child would provide for a stable succession. It would provide for another generation of a very unstable succession... And if he wouldn't have son all female members would have left the family or are past child bearing age, so a little late to incorporate them in any plans for a stable succession. So, it seems they've decided they are not interested in a stable succession if that would mean considering giving female branches a chance.

 

[JR76]

The pressure could be even heavier since Hisahito's wife will be solely accountable (as with Masako, her husband will be considered blameless, but unlike Masako, she will have no sister-in-law to step in to provide the male heir) for heading off a political crisis by producing at least one son.

Furthermore, she could have to carry the burden of being one of only two royals working to represent the country in the world's largest monarchy, populationwise.

And in this day and age, social media raises the odds that any skeletons of wife candidates as well as their families and friends will be exposed and destroy reputations, as we saw with the firestorm over Kei Komuro and his mother.



On the flipside, traditionalists know perfectly well that Hisahito is the only male heir of his generation, and that if he remains unmarried because the woman he loves is unsuitable, the window will open for the selection of a female-line descendant through Mako, Kako, or Aiko as his successor.

So ironically, traditionalists may be more generous to Hisahito in regard to his choice of wife, because for an arch-traditionalist it would be better to have an untraditional (e.g. a reality television star and glamor model with a history of offensive gaffes and scandals) empress consort than to be reigned over by an uncontroversial emperor from a female line.

I'm not so sure about that. I can see it being the other way around from what you're suggesting and a prospective bride being handpicked for Hisahito in the same was as for instance Princess Takamado has been actively involved in introducing suitable young men to her daughters. Most spouses that have married into the Imperial family since WWII have either been members of the affluent upper-middle class (and had some noble ancestry) or have belonged to the former nobility. These marriages show that there's still an expectation for the members of the Imperial family to marry someone of a certain social standing and that while legally abolished the legacy of the old aristocracy is still very much alive.

 

[Muhler]

Maybe it has something to do with Shinto religion?
The Emperor is also the Head of the Shinto religion. And women are not allowed to enter Shinto shrines and temples during menstruation, and in some instances, women are completely banned from climbing the tops of sacred mountains due to their 'impurity'.

For some, probably.

However, from an outsiders point of view it doesn't seems to me like the Shinto religion matters that much in the day to day life.
Shinto has for centuries been very successful in living together in people who are Buddhist or Christians. It seems to me to be more a part of tradition and being Japanese.

Anyway, there have been female emperors before and times with underage or mentally or physically incapable emperors. Someone else simply stepped in.
Apart from that, during the Shogunate, the Imperial Family was confined to Kyoto in de facto palace-arrest and while an important duty of the - whole - family was to adhere to and practice Shinto rituals, the Emperor was excluded from from visiting temples (that were often full of most troublesome monks BTW!) or going on pilgrimages to various parts of Japan. - Yet Japan and Shinto is till here...

If it looks like a convenient excuse.
If at sounds like an convenient excuse.
Then it probably is a convenient excuse.

 

[Somebody]

I'm not so sure about that. I can see it being the other way around from what you're suggesting and a prospective bride being handpicked for Hisahito in the same was as for instance Princess Takamado has been actively involved in introducing suitable young men to her daughters. Most spouses that have married into the Imperial family since WWII have either been members of the affluent upper-middle class (and had some noble ancestry) or have belonged to the former nobility. These marriages show that there's still an expectation for the members of the Imperial family to marry someone of a certain social standing and that while legally abolished the legacy of the old aristocracy is still very much alive.

Agree, I wouldn't be surprised if Hisahito is expected to marry relatively young to a suitable candidate that is chosen for him to give them as many years as possible to produce the required heir.

I wonder whether there are also attempts to for example set Kako up with a member of one of the abolished branches (hoping that they'll leave Mako alone and let her marry her fiancé).

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I agree with you, Muhler. Traditionalists' approval of male-preference restrictions at Shinto shrines (and in the imperial succession laws) results from their approval of male preference, not the other way around.

I'm not so sure about that. I can see it being the other way around from what you're suggesting and a prospective bride being handpicked for Hisahito in the same was as for instance Princess Takamado has been actively involved in introducing suitable young men to her daughters. Most spouses that have married into the Imperial family since WWII have either been members of the affluent upper-middle class (and had some noble ancestry) or have belonged to the former nobility. These marriages show that there's still an expectation for the members of the Imperial family to marry someone of a certain social standing and that while legally abolished the legacy of the old aristocracy is still very much alive.

Agree, I wouldn't be surprised if Hisahito is expected to marry relatively young to a suitable candidate that is chosen for him to give them as many years as possible to produce the required heir.

I wasn't suggesting that Hisahito was likely to flout traditional expectations in regards to his choice of wife. What I was suggesting was that if he does flout the expectations, reject any attempts at matchmaking, fall in love with an unsuitable, untraditional woman, and (somewhat like his uncle and sister) insist that he will marry her or no one, traditionalists might reluctantly support the marriage, as they would prefer an unsuitable but fertile consort over opening the door to a permanently unmarried and childless Hisahito being succeeded by one of the princesses' descendants.

I wonder whether there are also attempts to for example set Kako up with a member of one of the abolished branches (hoping that they'll leave Mako alone and let her marry her fiancé).

Perhaps Prisma can clarify whether there are any tabloid stories of the Akishinos attempting to set up such a marriage for Mako (as the older daughter they would presumably have started with her).

Who are you referring to when you say "they"?

 

[Somebody]

I wasn't suggesting that Hisahito was likely to flout traditional expectations in regards to his choice of wife. What I was suggesting was that if he does flout the expectations, reject any attempts at matchmaking, fall in love with an unsuitable, untraditional woman, and (somewhat like his uncle and sister) insist that he will marry her or no one, traditionalists might reluctantly support the marriage, as they would prefer an unsuitable but fertile consort over opening the door to a permanently unmarried and childless Hisahito being succeeded by one of the princesses' descendants.

Interesting thought. I hope he has enough will-power to withstand the powers around him when need be.

Perhaps Prisma can clarify whether there are any tabloid stories of the Akishinos attempting to set up such a marriage for Mako (as the older daughter they would presumably have started with her).

Who are you referring to when you say "they"?

I'm not sure who exactly played a part in ensuring that Mako didn't marry so far; it surely is her father but I'm sure there are others involved. And given that they managed to postpone her wedding (hopefully not indefinitely) but it seems quite a few powerful men are in charge of the life of these two princesses (at least more than they'd like them to be); at least in this area.

 

[yukari]

For some, probably.

However, from an outsiders point of view it doesn't seems to me like the Shinto religion matters that much in the day to day life.
Shinto has for centuries been very successful in living together in people who are Buddhist or Christians. It seems to me to be more a part of tradition and being Japanese.

Anyway, there have been female emperors before and times with underage or mentally or physically incapable emperors. Someone else simply stepped in.
Apart from that, during the Shogunate, the Imperial Family was confined to Kyoto in de facto palace-arrest and while an important duty of the - whole - family was to adhere to and practice Shinto rituals, the Emperor was excluded from from visiting temples (that were often full of most troublesome monks BTW!) or going on pilgrimages to various parts of Japan. - Yet Japan and Shinto is till here...

If it looks like a convenient excuse.
If at sounds like an convenient excuse.
Then it probably is a convenient excuse.

That's the thing, Muhler. The reality is the Emperor (and Imperial family in general) has lost their power since long ago. We cannot compare them with the European Monarchy nor see it through western's eyes.

Back in the past, when shogun acted "in the name of the Emperor", it's not the same as British government acted "in the name of the Crown". The former basically mean that the shogun acted in the name of God (or Goddess as it's Amaterasu). They were used as symbol to justify whatever the shogunate did. The Imperial family "selling value" was their divine status and I mean it literally.

Not only was he confined in Kyoto, but the Emperor used to be put behind the curtain. It was partly to maintain his divine status, so that royalty remain cloaked in mystery and magic, to not to be seen by "common" people.
I'm in the opinion that Meiji Restoration was not about restoring the emperor's power/authority, but about the friction between Southern Daimyos and Edo with the Southern was the one to use the emperor as their "poster boy". If not for the modernisation, I wouldn't be surprised if after the fall of Tokuwaga shogunate, Satsuma or Choshu shogunate would emerge, in fact the next government (as in the one with the "real power") was filled with people from that fraction, so it's just different name. Although yes, several members of Imperial family did indeed also later wield more power compare to during the bakufu period.
The emperor's surrender speech at the end of WWII not only hurt public feeling that he's betraying them by surrendering (you see, samurai spirit, to die than to surrender) especially after they had given and endured for the war (the condition for the Japanese was as bad as the countries they invaded), but also the revelation of the Emperor's non-divinity.

There's this old article which I think give a good explanation of the predicament surrounding the Imperial family:
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1998/11/behind-the-chrysanthemum-curtain/305241/

(...)
The courtiers of Japan's royal house did not need the death of Princess Diana last year, and the anti-monarchical sentiment amid the mourning that ensued, to remind them that modern monarchies can be fragile institutions, venerable but also buffeted by the crosswinds of the moment. "Emperor Akihito realizes that the greatest challenge for a monarchy in a democratic society is simply to survive," a senior Japanese palace official said to me recently. But how to survive?
(...)
There are the purists, who subscribe to the view of monarchy articulated for Britain in the late nineteenth century by the political writer and Economist editor Walter Bagehot: royalty must remain cloaked in mystery and magic. They shun talk of more frequent and less formal imperial outings. By scripting press conferences, limiting photographs, and assuming personal responsibility for royal foibles, the purists seem intent on purging the imperial family of its humanity and individuality. They cherish a vision of Japanese monarchy that the public is becoming increasingly disinclined to accept.

Then there are the more forward-looking courtiers, who are busy studying the King of Thailand's development projects and the Belgian monarchy's involvement in trade missions. They want to give Japan's Emperor a more activist role. Members of this group are desperately searching for a modern theme that would solidify public support. "Strong ideological opposition to the monarchy has weakened in recent years," says one senior courtier. "But now we have a new problem: there is an increase in the number of people who don't feel they need the system. And the monarchy hasn't been made meaningful to the younger generation."
(...)
The truth is, however, that many of the traditional trappings of the Japanese throne, from archaic-looking Shinto wedding ceremonies to the design of some of Japan's most sacred shrines, were purposely created by Japan's governing elite as a way to unify the populace after the Meiji Restoration of 1868. This event, which ended two and a half centuries of feudal rule, brought the imperial house closer to the center of Japan's culture than it had ever been before. Hitherto, for example, the average Japanese knew little about the Emperor, or about his mythical claim to descent from the sun goddess.

Call me harsh but tbh, I will not be surprised if at some point, they will opt to abolish the monarchy instead of dealing with the succession issue if by that time they (the government) think that they no longer need the symbol since the public no longer buy that divinity stuff.

And actually, in a way, Japanese is not as patriarchy as the western. Many current former noble and samurai clan family at some point are descent from female line, so does many old family establishment where at some point in time there's no son to inherit and the daughter will marry a man whom married into her family (the man took his wife's name and not the other way around) instead of going to long lost cousins, so the family name will still live on.
In comparison, many noble titles in Europe either ceased to exist when there's only daughter or they need to find the long-long lost family to get the closest male to inherit.

The past empress were actually kind of "in between" until there's a male old enough to inherit the throne. So in my view, in western monarchy it would be more like a regent. This empress mostly didn't marry. So again, in a way. it's back to the maintaining the "purity" of the "divine bloodline".

 

[yukari]

I'm not so sure about that. I can see it being the other way around from what you're suggesting and a prospective bride being handpicked for Hisahito in the same was as for instance Princess Takamado has been actively involved in introducing suitable young men to her daughters. Most spouses that have married into the Imperial family since WWII have either been members of the affluent upper-middle class (and had some noble ancestry) or have belonged to the former nobility. These marriages show that there's still an expectation for the members of the Imperial family to marry someone of a certain social standing and that while legally abolished the legacy of the old aristocracy is still very much alive.

Well, omiai is not so uncommon amongst common people, where a single man or woman will be presented with several envelopes containing a photo and profile of prospective matches and later a meeting is arranged for the two when both in agreement.
So if the Imperial family does it, it will not be so strange.

 

[Prisma]

[...]

Perhaps Prisma can clarify whether there are any tabloid stories of the Akishinos attempting to set up such a marriage for Mako (as the older daughter they would presumably have started with her).

[...]

Hi. Sorry, I missed your post. I don't recall tabloid stories about setting up marriage for Mako. Most stories mention the Akishino couple's policy of letting the children choose their own partners / doing what they like or want. Mako would have to give up marriage plans to Kei Komuro for any setup to even begin.

Japan eyes post-marital title for female imperial family members - Kyodo News

The Japanese government is considering giving a new honorific title to female imperial family members who lose their royal status after marriage to enable them to engage in public duties, government sources said Monday.

[...]

The plan being floated to give the honorific "kojo" to married female imperial family members is also an alternative to allowing them to retain royal family status, in what could be a controversial change.

The creation of the new title is seen as easier to accept for conservatives who are against allowing women to take the throne or married female members staying in the imperial household.

The then Democratic Party of Japan-led government between 2009 and 2012 also explored the possibility of allowing female imperial family members to perform public activities after marriage.

"It's an idea that can gain support beyond party lines," said a person close to Prime Minister Yoshihide Suga, who is also the president of the Liberal Democratic Party.

The government is considering special legislation to create the new system, rather than revising the Imperial House Law, according to the government sources.

[...]

Additional info from Japanese Kyodo and Yomiuri/YahooNews regarding the proposal:
- "kojo" would be special-purpose national civil servant
- princesses would still leave Imperial status on marriage
- government provides allowance as civil servant

Google translates 皇女 "kojo" honorific as "princess" so if this proposal becomes reality, perhaps the government will specify a different English/Western term? Or maybe "princess" title like some of the Swedish royals (3 of King Carl XVI Gustaf's sisters / Princess Madeleine's children)? Drop the HIH and "of Akishino/Mikasa/Takamado"

 

[Tatiana Maria]

The plan sounds like a way for the government to break the law without admitting to breaking the law.

 

[Mbruno]

On the flipside, traditionalists know perfectly well that Hisahito is the only male heir of his generation, and that if he remains unmarried because the woman he loves is unsuitable, the window will open for the selection of a female-line descendant through Mako, Kako, or Aiko as his successor.

I suspect that, if Hisahito doesn't have a son, traditionalists would rather reinstate previous male-line branches of the Imperial Family than embrace succession in maternal line. I wonder why Japanese public opinion doesn't rally against that though.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I suspect that, if Hisahito doesn't have a son, traditionalists would rather restore previous male-line branches of the Imperial Family than embrace succession in maternal line.

You are correct.

I wonder why Japanese public opinion doesn't rally against that though.

Public opinion is currently against it. See the poll here: 70% were opposed.

Which explains why traditionalists are determinedly against the establishment of female-line of cadet branches. They are well aware that in a situation where an elderly, childless Hisahito has been supported by his nieces and nephews for decades, many taxpayers will balk at restoring former (male-line) branches to the imperial family when a number of (female-line) princes and princesses are already available.

 

[yukari]

The youngest daughter of Emperor Ninkō and his concubine, Hashimoto Tsuneko was born as Chikako several months after the death of the emperor. Her half brother, Emperor Kōmei, made her a naishinnō so she became Kazu-no-miya Chikako naishinnō (和宮 親子内親王) just before she married Tokugawa Iemochi, the 14th shogun Tokugawa (or more like because she would married him, thus she'd outrank her to-be-husband and mother-in-law). Even after entering Ōoku, she was addressed as "Kazu-no-Miya-sama", instead of "Midai-sama" (traditional address for Midaikoro). And later after Iemochi's death and she became nun, her title was Seikan'in-no-miya (静寛院宮). She never lost "宮" on her name.
That was almost 2 centuries ago, on the brink of Meiji Restoration, but it was done so I wonder why don't just let the princesses keep their title after marriage?

As for reinstating former male-line ...

Long ago, within the seshū shinnōke (世襲親王家) households, younger non-heir sons (who were titled prince (親王, shinnō)), had two career options. They could "descend" to subject status with a surname such as Minamoto or Taira, and serve as a government official, or they could enter the priesthood, generally as the head of one of the monzeki temples in and around Kyoto. During the Edo period, the latter practice became almost universal. Non-heir sons who entered the priesthood were styled princely priest (法親王, hōshinnō), and were automatically excluded from the succession, but could be recalled to "secular" status (and thus reinstated as potential successors) if the need arose. Unwed daughters, once they crossed a certain age, also often became nuns.
With that above, it's likely the traditionalist would prefer that route than start entirely new one by going through with female line.

 

[Prisma]

Comments regarding the government's proposal to give "kojo" title to princesses post-marriage to continue public activities. [Jiji]

Yuichiro Tamaki, leader of the Democratic Party for the People, commented "There’s [still] a problem. [The proposal] does not directly contribute to stable succession."

Kazuo Shii, chairman of the Communist Party, said "I think it is necessary to consider recognizing women and female emperors."

New title eyed for princesses after they wed so they continue duties : The Asahi Shimbun

... One proposal is for female members to be given the title “kojo” (literally, imperial woman), which would allow them to continue to perform their official duties even after marriage to help maintain the imperial family’s activities, sources said.

[...]

They said conservatives who advocate maintaining the current male line of succession may accept the idea if women given the kojo title must still leave the imperial family...

 

[amaryllus]

Forgive me for being simple but being as they had Empresses with little fuss hundreds of years ago and only starting kicking out Princess, scrapped the nobility because of After War changes in the 1940’s... why is there so much controversy now? They need the girls or the Imperial family could very well consist of one man in 20 years. Plus given the nil birth rates and the lack of male Royal babies in Japan he may repeat The same cycle but it really be the end this time.