Succession and Membership Issues - Page 8

Elspeth · #**141** 02-12-2006, 09:37 PM

It's a shame that the people apparently are quite happy for the IHA to do what it takes to ensure a male succession. Japan seems to be a country run by men for men, with women being subservient and/or decorative. If that's the way they want it, I suppose it's their business, but it seems like an awful waste of half the population.

mandyy · #**142** 02-12-2006, 11:57 PM

Voters adopt wait and see approach to Imperial succession issue, Mainichi poll shows
Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi's decision to withdraw from the current Diet session a bill that would allow women to succeed the Imperial Throne has received the backing of voters, a Mainichi polled showed Sunday............................
http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/nation...na018000c.html

Toledo · #**143** 02-13-2006, 10:14 AM

The embarassing and ridiculous thing is that they do refer to make a study about it! Is no longer on the process of changing the Constitution but on the effect of a female Monarch on the throne. They need a study for that?!?!
In Spain the issue is not whether Leonor will become Queen or not but the political proccess it involves that requires several steps. Leonor will be Queen, just look in the eyes of her Dad and see that there is no force on earth that will prevent him making his daugther the heir.

But in Japan, from what I've been reading, is more about chauvinism of a few politicians even when the majority of the people would love to have an Empress Aiko. Let them go to the voting polls, that will show the opinion of the public is not the one reflected on the opinions of career male politicians.

**Marengo** · #**144** 02-13-2006, 06:34 PM

I am not to sure about that Toledo. ome articles posted here states that a majority (55%) is in favour of delaying the bill and wait for the child of Princess Kiko. Apart from that I do not think that politicians would cling to these traditions if the japanese society would disagree strongly with them, it would be some sort of political suicide.

soCal girl · #**145** 02-14-2006, 03:36 PM

I know Crown Prince Naruhito is for the reform. But I just think this is such a contradictory photo: http://www.theroyalforums.com/galler...hp?i=1456&c=10
If the IHA really don't believe in females ascending the throne, aren't the IHA ashamed of having an official visit with countries that do? I'm starting to be really bitter....(can you tell?

)

CrownPrinceLorenzo · #**146** 02-14-2006, 05:58 PM

That's such a nice picture.

Both Crown Prince Naruhito and Crown Princess Victoria had cheesy smiles on lol.

Anyway, I think Crown Princess Masako should show her defiance by wearing a shirt with Empress Go-Sakuramachi's seal on it.

Emily · #**147** 02-14-2006, 08:11 PM

...and another ridiculous thing, as I understand it, is that the law barring females from succeeding as Empress was only passed in 1947. That is not really all that old; in fact, taking a look historically, it is pretty recent -- so what is the problem here? On the other hand, since the article makes clear the emperor is a symbolic job with no real power, maybe Masako is jumping up and down with glee that her beloved daughter, who is no doubt very smart, will get to bypass this "empty" job with an impressive title and actually do something more substantive with her life.

I am interested if anyone knows the author of the Japanese Times article? Or does it stand for the whole editorial board of the newspaper? And what is the reputation of the newspaper? How respected is it? Equivalent to the Wall Street Journal or New York Times in America? or more left wing?

CrownPrinceLorenzo · #**148** 02-14-2006, 10:07 PM

Quote:

...and another ridiculous thing, as I understand it, is that the law barring females from succeeding as Empress was only passed in 1947. That is not really all that old; in fact, taking a look historically, it is pretty recent -- so what is the problem here? On the other hand, since the article makes clear the emperor is a symbolic job with no real power, maybe Masako is jumping up and down with glee that her beloved daughter, who is no doubt very smart, will get to bypass this "empty" job with an impressive title and actually do something more substantive with her life.

No, it actually started during the Meiji Restoration. In 1889, Japan adapted Prussian succession laws.

Elspeth · #**149** 02-14-2006, 10:18 PM

So not only is it not a longstanding tradition, it isn't even a Japanese one. Sigh.

CrownPrinceLorenzo · #**150** 02-14-2006, 10:48 PM

LOL yeah it's beyond silly.

Japan was at least Semi-Salic law before the Meiji Restoration. And imperial daughters and granddaughters could succeed the throne if there were no suitable male heir. Only one Empress abdicated in favor of her daughter, I forgot their names at the moment. All other Empresses passed on the throne to the next male member.

But these women, after abdicating became "Cloistered Rulers" because Emperors in Japan frequently abdicated once tired of their rule. And they become Cloistered Rulers, and they serve in an advisory capacity, plus they have more influence than the current Emperor. And they had the power to admonish an Emperor they do not see fit to rule. Empress Go-Sakuramachi as a cloistered ruler admonished Emperor Kokaku because of a scandal.

Anyway, that's how I understood how it worked back then, based on what I've read on the Imperial line history. It's very complicated.

So, even though it was still in favor of males, the females still had power. Which is more than the current Imperial daughters and granddaughters have.

Mandy · #**151** 02-15-2006, 01:55 AM

It’s a little more complicated than that. At the end of WWII, the US created the IHA and drew up the Japanese constitution that provided for an elected government.

The Emperor remained as symbolic head of state to provide a source of unity for the people while the elected government held the authority/power. The IHA was charged with the affairs of the Imperial Family so that the emperor would never again have the power nor the money to engage in warfare.

With the new constitution, entire branches of the Imperial family were reduced to commoners an effort to reduce the size of the Imperial Family. The constitution recognized dynastic male primogeniture and princesses that married commoners lost their titles.

soCal girl · #**152** 02-15-2006, 02:12 AM

I understand that WWII was a tough time, I really do. My grandparents have told me horror stories about it. The Imperial Family today, however, are different people and could never engage in warfare since they are so oppressed by the IHA. Many royals of other countries are symbolic heads of state and do not hold any significant politcal power, but they aren't as strictly controlled as the Japanese Imperial family are. As the times change, so should the rules and policies. I'm Korean and my family is all about tradition. It's good to keep tradition but not when it's causing so many people misery. In this day and age with all this knowledge we have of gentics, the IHA should know it's not Masako's fault she didn't deliver a boy! Maybe Masako is glad that there is a way out for her daughter. But the whole thing IMO is about principle. I find this whole situation just plain wrong.

CrownPrinceLorenzo · #**153** 02-15-2006, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mandy

It’s a little more complicated than that. At the end of WWII, the US created the IHA and drew up the Japanese constitution that provided for an elected government.

The Emperor remained as symbolic head of state to provide a source of unity for the people while the elected government held the authority/power. The IHA was charged with the affairs of the Imperial Family so that the emperor would never again have the power nor the money to engage in warfare.

With the new constitution, entire branches of the Imperial family were reduced to commoners an effort to reduce the size of the Imperial Family. The constitution recognized dynastic male primogeniture and princesses that married commoners lost their titles.

Thanks Mandy, I didn't know that it was the U.S. that established the evil IHA.

mandyy · #**154** 02-16-2006, 04:30 AM

Koizumi's reform push loses footing amid whispers of a lame duck premiership
......................A downcast Koizumi alluded to his woes in an ancient haiku recited for reporters Friday, the same day he shelved a cherished bill to let women ascend the Imperial Throne: "Even though the plum tree's blooming, and the warbler's chirping, it is very lonely."
In the past week alone, Koizumi not only backed down on that legislation, which may have helped avert a succession crisis in the Imperial Family, he all but abandoned another cornerstone project to upgrade Japan's Defense Agency to a full-blown ministry....................
http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/nation...na026000c.html

mandyy · #**155** 02-16-2006, 03:44 PM

Japan emperor descendant defends male succession
TOKYO - With the blood of an emperor flowing through his veins, Tsuneyasu Takeda has been making waves by suggesting distant royal relatives should be ready to help preserve Japan’s tradition of male imperial succession.
But Takeda, a bespectacled 30-year-old bachelor, said on Thursday that he’d find it daunting if asked to play that role himself.
Plans to revise the succession law to let women and their children inherit the throne have been put on hold following news that Princess Kiko, 39, the wife of Emperor Akihito’s second son, was pregnant, raising hopes that a male heir might be born.
No male has been born into the imperial family since the birth of Kiko’s husband, Akishino, in 1965. Crown Prince Naruhito, 45, and Crown Princess Masako, 42, have a 4-year-old daughter, Aiko, while Kiko and Akishino have two daughters...............................
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayA...n=theworld&col=

#1-3: Tsuneyasu Takeda, a member of one of the 11 former princely houses that were abolished after Japan's defeat in World War Two, speaks during an interview with Reuters in Tokyo February 16, 2006. With the blood of an emperor flowing through his veins, Takeda has been making waves by suggesting distant royal relatives should be ready to help preserve Japan's tradition of male imperial succession. REUTERS/Toru Hanai

corazon · #**156** 02-16-2006, 07:10 PM

if this new baby is a boy, will be the crown's heir?

Emily · #**157** 02-16-2006, 07:52 PM

If Kiko delivers a son, the line of succession will be Naruhito, Akishino and then the baby boy. Naruhito will not be replaced by Akishino just because the baby is a boy. He will be replaced by Akishino upon his death and then when Akishino passes on, his son will become the emperor.

CrownPrinceLorenzo · #**158** 02-16-2006, 11:53 PM

That dorky guy just wants to be reinstated as Imperial.... Grrrrr

corazon · #**159** 02-17-2006, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emily

If Kiko delivers a son, the line of succession will be Naruhito, Akishino and then the baby boy. Naruhito will not be replaced by Akishino just because the baby is a boy. He will be replaced by Akishino upon his death and then when Akishino passes on, his son will become the emperor.

so, if the baby is boy aiko never will be empress, but if the baby is girl the reform continue.

mandyy · #**160** 02-21-2006, 03:29 PM

Public support for female monarch waning in Japan--poll
TOKYO -- A majority of Japanese support allowing a woman on Japan's imperial throne, but that support has fallen sharply after a royal pregnancy announced earlier this month raised the possibility of a new male heir, a poll said Tuesday.
About 66 percent of respondents to a poll published Tuesday by the daily Asahi Shimbun said they would support a change in the law to allow a female monarch, down from 78 percent who approved in a poll taken in November last year.....................
http://news.inq7.net/world/index.php...story_id=66975