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  #1261  
Old 11-29-2020, 04:00 PM
Courtier
 
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I think women as Empress are just as equal as a man. Maybe some don't think so. Since when does any country feel they need a man to be Head of State? Europe has 7 Royal Houses 2 Princely Houses and one Grand Ducal House. Two Queens the rest of them Kings. Sweden Belgium Netherlands, Spain, Norway will have Queens maybe for a couple of Generations, they will be more then fine. Women are more then able to walk talk and chew gum at the same time if the need arises. So far we are people who can multitask I don't think this will change in the near future. To end this I feel the daughter of the Emperor of Japan Pss Aiko, would be a great Crownprincess and future Empress.
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  #1262  
Old 11-29-2020, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by REAL COUNTESS View Post
I think women as Empress are just as equal as a man. Maybe some don't think so. Since when does any country feel they need a man to be Head of State? Europe has 7 Royal Houses 2 Princely Houses and one Grand Ducal House. Two Queens the rest of them Kings. Sweden Belgium Netherlands, Spain, Norway will have Queens maybe for a couple of Generations, they will be more then fine. Women are more then able to walk talk and chew gum at the same time if the need arises. So far we are people who can multitask I don't think this will change in the near future. To end this I feel the daughter of the Emperor of Japan Pss Aiko, would be a great Crownprincess and future Empress.
Prince Akishino has already been confirmed as heir to the Emperor in large, extendend solemn ceremonies with the attendance of all adult members of the Imperial House.

The new Crown Prince and -Princess have their official title, style, arms, Household. The Crown Princess has received the cassettes with sparkling diamond parures, exclusively to be worn by the Crown Princess. Etc.

Princess Aiko will only be in the picture if something happens to her uncle Crown Prince Akishino and her cousin Prince Hisahito. And when Prince Hisahito gets a son himself, she will be pushed further away.

But Princess Aiko will be spared a lifelong being chained to the Men In Grey, regulating every single day of her imperial life. Most likely she will find more freeeom outside the imperial family.

Look at a Princess Takamado. Globetrotting the world with style and flair. She has so much more freedom than the Empress and the Crown Princess.
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  #1263  
Old 11-29-2020, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by amaryllus View Post
Forgive me for being simple but being as they had Empresses with little fuss hundreds of years ago and only starting kicking out Princess, scrapped the nobility because of After War changes in the 1940’s... why is there so much controversy now?
Just as traditionalist Western monarchists do not follow the examples of monarchies from the Middle Ages, traditionalist Japanese monarchists would rather take the monarchy of the 1940s than the monarchy of centuries ago as their role model.

As for kicking out princesses: The rule that on marriage they automatically enter their husband's family already existed in the Imperial House Law of 1889.


Quote:
Originally Posted by yukari View Post
The youngest daughter of Emperor Ninkō and his concubine, Hashimoto Tsuneko was born as Chikako several months after the death of the emperor. Her half brother, Emperor Kōmei, made her a naishinnō so she became Kazu-no-miya Chikako naishinnō (和宮 親子内親王) just before she married Tokugawa Iemochi, the 14th shogun Tokugawa (or more like because she would married him, thus she'd outrank her to-be-husband and mother-in-law). Even after entering Ōoku, she was addressed as "Kazu-no-Miya-sama", instead of "Midai-sama" (traditional address for Midaikoro). And later after Iemochi's death and she became nun, her title was Seikan'in-no-miya (静寛院宮). She never lost "宮" on her name.
That was almost 2 centuries ago, on the brink of Meiji Restoration, but it was done so I wonder why don't just let the princesses keep their title after marriage?
What does Midaikoro mean?

I think an important distinction between historical and modern conditions is that apart from the imperial family, class divisions have officially been abolished by the 1947 constitution, and no intermediate ranks are available between imperial family member and citizen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yukari View Post
As for reinstating former male-line ...

Long ago, within the seshū shinnōke (世襲親王家) households, younger non-heir sons (who were titled prince (親王, shinnō)), had two career options. They could "descend" to subject status with a surname such as Minamoto or Taira, and serve as a government official, or they could enter the priesthood, generally as the head of one of the monzeki temples in and around Kyoto. During the Edo period, the latter practice became almost universal. Non-heir sons who entered the priesthood were styled princely priest (法親王, hōshinnō), and were automatically excluded from the succession, but could be recalled to "secular" status (and thus reinstated as potential successors) if the need arose. Unwed daughters, once they crossed a certain age, also often became nuns.
With that above, it's likely the traditionalist would prefer that route than start entirely new one by going through with female line.
True, but their argument from tradition can be countered by pointing out that no princes have exited the imperial family since 1947, meaning that there will be no former princes to restore as heirs to Hisahito. Elevating the commoner-born descendants of former princes into the imperial family would itself begin an entirely new tradition, as the 2005 report stated.
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  #1264  
Old 12-02-2020, 08:47 PM
Courtier
 
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I’m sorry, I mistyped. It should be midaidokoro, the shōgun official wife (and shōgun was not considered as noble, so it’s Imperial princess married “commoner”).

The thing is, if she played her card well (and Meiji Restoration never happened) she might be able to wield more (political) influence as midaidokoro residing in Edo than as naishinnō living in Kyoto. As it was said that Ōoku (a women-only territory, in which midaidokoro was the highest in rank) held some (political) power in influencing the decision of the shōgunate. To put it simply, it’s like as if Princess Sayako married Prime Minister in which she then had her own independent office with all-female staffs (in the case of Ōoku, it’s from Jorō O-toshiyori aka midaidokoro’s advisor/private assistant, O-toshiyori or chief staff who run the Ōoku, to Hinoban or the security guard who’s excelled at martial arts. All females).

Come to think of it, in a way somehow Japan pre-Meiji was more feminist than post-Meiji .... I mean take for example; kabuki used to have female actors (back when England still forbade female actors to be on the stage) or how miko (female priest, I really don’t like when it’s been translated as “shaman”) used to have prominent role in Shinto shrine.

And on a side note, there were two female tennōs during the Tokugawa shōgunate. Somehow post-Meiji, with the “modernisation”, it’s pro-male now.

And talking about kabuki (since being kabuki actor is more or less a hereditary career and they train from a very young age, say 7 years old), it’s rather common for them to “adopt” some relative’s son (nephew, cousin, etc) when there’s no male heir. So with the same principle and if they go back to how it had been done during the Tokugawa era (which ended less than 200 years ago, so not that long) with the Gosanke, of having fix dedicated family branch(es) to provide male heir, say Prince Hitachi could “adopt” a young son of Kaya or Higashikuni or Takeda to continue the Hitachi branch hence he could sort of “train” early, so it wouldn’t be some kind of reinstating the whole (former imperial branch) family or turning an adult “commoner” into “royal” in one night.

I think I’ve read somewhere that the Tokugawa did create dedicated collateral Imperial family branches since the number of shinnō and naishinnō was been limited due to budgeting, hence not every emperor’s children would automatically become prince/princess (like the case of Kazu-no-miya), but I can’t remember where and google don’t help (and going through books will take time). And within the Gosanke itself, there were times where there’s no male heir so they need to “adopt” nephew or cousin to be their successor in continuing the three collateral branches, instead of creating new family branch. This practice still exists amongst former samurai clans until today.

Although yes, promoting a descendant of former prince after three generations of being subject is unprecedented, though the case of reinstating a demoted imperial prince had happened such as Sadami who’s been demoted from the rank of imperial royals to that of subjects in order to reduce the state expenses, as well as their political influence and became Minamoto no Sadami and was adopted by Fujiwara no Mototsune’s sister, only to be promoted to Imperial Prince rank again and later ascended to the throne Emperor Uda. And it's not for lack of princes available, but because its Heian where the Fujiwara clan basically “decided” who would be the next tennō.
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  #1265  
Old 12-12-2020, 02:44 AM
Majesty
 
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Japan considers setting up panel on imperial succession - Kyodo News
Quote:
[...]

At a press conference on Friday, House of Representatives Speaker Tadamori Oshima said he hopes the government will now give "solemn consideration" to what can be done to realize a stable imperial succession.

It remains unclear when the discussions will speed up. The government will likely seek to prevent the imperial succession from becoming a divisive issue in the next lower house election, which will be held sometime by October 2021.

Parliament in 2017 called on the government to promptly hold discussions on how to achieve a stable imperial succession and report its conclusion, without setting a deadline.

[...]

A similar advisory panel that was set up for the abdication of former Emperor Akihito consisted of six members from academia and the private sector. They solicited views from a total of 20 experts over the course of six months and presented their findings to the government.

Public opinion overwhelmingly supports allowing women to ascend the throne, with a Kyodo News poll conducted in March and April this year showing 85 percent of respondents in favor of it.

[...]

But conservatives in the ruling Liberal Democratic Party are reluctant to make significant changes to the imperial succession, and government sources say it is increasingly becoming difficult to reach a consensus on the matter.

According to the sources, Suga's administration has already conveyed such concerns to Oshima and House of Councillors President Akiko Santo.

If the government chooses to avoid making any decision, the focus is expected to turn to ways to alleviate the burden of official duties on a shrinking pool of imperial family members.

These will likely include delegating official duties to women who have lost their royal status after marrying a commoner, and allowing them to head their own branches of the imperial family.
I don't expect much progress. The panel will recommend what the government wants. After all, did anyone really expect the 2017 panel to oppose Emperor Akihito's abdication?
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  #1266  
Old 12-12-2020, 05:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prisma View Post
Japan considers setting up panel on imperial succession - Kyodo News

I don't expect much progress. The panel will recommend what the government wants. After all, did anyone really expect the 2017 panel to oppose Emperor Akihito's abdication?
Neither do I.

A panel with next to no influence, debating for as long as it's politically convenient...
But the government can say that they are serious about the issue...
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  #1267  
Old 12-30-2020, 02:02 AM
Majesty
 
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Government slow to start imperial succession talks | The Japan Times
Quote:
[...]

The government is looking to set up a panel of experts to discuss the issue in 2021, including whether to allow female emperors or emperors from the maternal bloodline to ascend to the throne.

But some officials are concerned about the possible impact of the discussions on the election for the House of Representatives. The term of office of the current Lower House members ends next October.

A senior government official called for discussions on the matter to be avoided before the poll. “Having political parties express different opinions during the campaigning is inappropriate,” the official said.

In addition, Prime Minister Yoshihide Suga supports the current system of only male descendants in the imperial family’s paternal line ascending the throne.

[...]

But a source close to the prime minister said: “The timing is undecided. It may come after the Lower House election.”

The government is not in a rush also because Prince Hisahito, the son of Crown Prince Akishino who is second in line to the throne, is only 14 years old. Some in the Prime Minister’s Office say that a conclusion on the topic does not need to be reached for a few years.

The reluctance to speed up deliberations also reflect recent plunges in Suga’s public approval ratings amid criticism of his response to the coronavirus pandemic.

“Only a stable administration can act on issues regarding the imperial family. The Suga administration can’t for now,” a government source said.

[...]
Japan Govt Slow to Start Imperial Succession Talks | Nippon.com
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  #1268  
Old 12-30-2020, 06:11 AM
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So the issue has been postponed indefinitely. How convenient...

A pretty lame excuse, because it really means that all longterm discussions must be postponed until after the election and after the government has regained its footing - and the sun is shining. I doubt other important issues are being mothballed...
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  #1269  
Old 12-30-2020, 04:04 PM
Courtier
 
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I agree with you Muhler. Let me just say, this is the 21st Century is it not? and in some countries it seems men are more capable then women? The Emperor is not making Laws, he is the Head of State, just like Queens of the UK and Denmark and all the other countries which have a Royals as Head of State. Lets jump ahead. What if the CP son will be Emperor in the distant future and his wife will only have daughters, so will this be the end of the Monarchy? If the Government is run badly, this is not the Emperors fault only that of the elected Government .
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  #1270  
Old 12-30-2020, 04:46 PM
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Yes, it's a kind of thinking I genuinely can't understand.

A lot of arch-conservative seems to be afraid of women, because there can't be any other reason for keeping women away from prominent positions.
Surely it is possible to be both conservative and progressive at the same time.

It's also illogical. Because that sort of thinking excludes per default 50 % of the population, some of whom might very well be better alternatives. As we are currently seeing in Thailand with the King there and his much more respected sister.
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  #1271  
Old 12-30-2020, 04:51 PM
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I agree doesn't make sense because pushing it to the future doesn't solve the problem and increases the likelihood of the dynasty resting *entirely* on one person who may or may not have a son himself, let alone more than one, even if medical help is involved.

I get that "necessity is the mother of invention" but there will likely never be a time when it's perfect to discuss the matter. Surely it's better to do it now when it's not 100% critical than when they're about to fall off a cliff.
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  #1272  
Old 12-30-2020, 05:21 PM
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"A senior government official called for discussions on the matter to be avoided before the poll. “Having political parties express different opinions during the campaigning is inappropriate,” the official said."
Opposing political parties expressing differences of opinion during an election campaign?! How shocking.
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  #1273  
Old 01-03-2021, 03:48 AM
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Yea, I agree succession should be discussed while campaigning. It's not the highest priority but should not be off limits.

Male-only rule should be prioritized in imperial succession: Suga - Kyodo News
Quote:
... "Under current circumstances, male-only succession should be given priority," Suga said in a prerecorded radio show broadcast by Nippon Broadcasting System Inc., referring to the long tradition of male succession. The program was recorded on Dec. 18, 2020 ...
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  #1274  
Old 01-03-2021, 04:03 AM
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Wouldn't it be simpler if they simply "promoted" females in the line of succession to men?
Surely that can't be more silly than some of the suggestions and arguments that have been brought up.

Most monarchies have long traditions with men on the throne, but there is a first time for everything.

The conservative argument about the bloodline is pretty funny actually. And not at all logic, when you think of it.
Prior to DNA testing the only sure way of being certain of a particular bloodline remaining pure, was from mother to daughter. After all you can officially witness a birth and tag the infant from the very beginning. It's a little more difficult to officially witness the exact moment of conceiving a child...
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  #1275  
Old 03-16-2021, 03:07 AM
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Japan to set up panel on imperial succession as family shrinks - Kyodo News
Quote:
Japan will establish an advisory panel next week to solicit views from experts on ways to secure a stable imperial succession, the top government spokesman said Tuesday, amid concerns over the dwindling number of royal family members.

The six-member panel is set to discuss issues including the country's male-only imperial succession rule, Chief Cabinet Secretary Katsunobu Kato told a press conference. [...]

"Securing a stable imperial succession is an important issue concerning the nation's basis," Kato said. Panel members "are expected to hold discussions without making prejudgments."

The six panel members include Tetsuro Tomita, chairman of East Japan Railway Co., and Atsushi Seike, former president of Keio University. They are expected to reach a conclusion following up to one year of discussions.

[...]

A Kyodo News poll conducted in March and April last year showed 85 percent of respondents were in favor of allowing women to ascend the throne.

However, conservatives in the ruling Liberal Democratic Party are reluctant to make significant changes to the imperial succession, with Prime Minister Yoshihide Suga saying in January, "Under current circumstances, male-only succession should be given priority."

The panel will likely discuss ways to alleviate the burden of official duties on a shrinking pool of imperial family members, such as delegating duties to women who have lost their royal status after marrying a commoner or allowing them to head their own branches of the imperial family.
The six panel members per Sankei:

Tetsuro Tomita, chairman of East Japan Railway Co.
Atsushi Seike, former president of Keio University
Mayumi Ohashi, Professor at Sophia University, Faculty of Law
Yuri Nakae, actress
Yuichi Hosoya, Professor of international politics at Keio University
Midori Miyazaki, Professor at Chiba University of Commerce
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  #1276  
Old 03-16-2021, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prisma View Post
Japan to set up panel on imperial succession as family shrinks - Kyodo News


The six panel members per Sankei:

Tetsuro Tomita, chairman of East Japan Railway Co.
Atsushi Seike, former president of Keio University
Mayumi Ohashi, Professor at Sophia University, Faculty of Law
Yuri Nakae, actress
Yuichi Hosoya, Professor of international politics at Keio University
Midori Miyazaki, Professor at Chiba University of Commerce
Why the sudden change of heart? I wonder if this is a sign that the marriage of Princess Mako and Kei Kumaro may be going ahead, sooner rather than later?
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  #1277  
Old 03-16-2021, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prisma View Post
Japan to set up panel on imperial succession as family shrinks - Kyodo News


The six panel members per Sankei:

Tetsuro Tomita, chairman of East Japan Railway Co.
Atsushi Seike, former president of Keio University
Mayumi Ohashi, Professor at Sophia University, Faculty of Law
Yuri Nakae, actress
Yuichi Hosoya, Professor of international politics at Keio University
Midori Miyazaki, Professor at Chiba University of Commerce
I know governments normally do not restrict the makeup of panels on the imperial family to royalty experts (frankly, I find it incomprehensible; in what way does chairing a railway company give an individual any more right to speak on imperial matters than a member of the general public?), but the appointment of an actress seems atypical even by Japanese government standards. Is there any apparent reason why she was chosen?


Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownPrincessJava View Post
Why the sudden change of heart? I wonder if this is a sign that the marriage of Princess Mako and Kei Kumaro may be going ahead, sooner rather than later?
I have the same question. I had been anticipating a delay until at least the next prime ministerial transition. It surprises me that there is a solid schedule with a tentative one-year deadline for discussions, even if nothing more will come from it.
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  #1278  
Old 03-16-2021, 02:36 PM
Aristocracy
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prisma View Post
Japan to set up panel on imperial succession as family shrinks - Kyodo News


The six panel members per Sankei:

Tetsuro Tomita, chairman of East Japan Railway Co.
Atsushi Seike, former president of Keio University
Mayumi Ohashi, Professor at Sophia University, Faculty of Law
Yuri Nakae, actress
Yuichi Hosoya, Professor of international politics at Keio University
Midori Miyazaki, Professor at Chiba University of Commerce

Why government now has decided put panel? But frankly, I bit doubt that this is going lead anywhere. Not first time when issue has been discussed without any results.
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  #1279  
Old 03-16-2021, 03:05 PM
Majesty
 
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Perhaps diverse opinions? The "experts" cover law, corporate, entertainment, politics, education, and commerce. I also wonder about the panelists' connections to the LDP... The government clearly support male-only succession so I expect the conclusion to adhere to that stance.

Japan to Start Debate on Stable Imperial Succession Next Week | Nippon.com
Quote:
Describing the panel members as “a variety of specialists with deep insight,” [Chief Cabinet Secretary Katsunobu Kato] said they will have discussions in a relaxed environment with no timeline for a conclusion.
Atsushi Seike is now head of Promotion and Mutual Aid Corp. for Private Schools of Japan.

As for timing, the discussion has already been delayed for 3+ years. After enthronement, after Crown Prince Proclamation, pandemic delays...
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  #1280  
Old 03-17-2021, 02:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prisma View Post
Perhaps diverse opinions? The "experts" cover law, corporate, entertainment, politics, education, and commerce. I also wonder about the panelists' connections to the LDP... The government clearly supports male-only succession so I expect the conclusion to adhere to that stance.

Japan to Start Debate on Stable Imperial Succession Next Week | Nippon.com

Atsushi Seike is now head of Promotion and Mutual Aid Corp. for Private Schools of Japan.

As for timing, the discussion has already been delayed for 3+ years. After enthronement, after Crown Prince Proclamation, pandemic delays...
The only reason I can see why the current Japanese government being so concerned NOW that it needs to be debated is that perhaps Princess Kako is about to announce her engagement. I believe Princess Mako will marry her beloved and if Princess Kako announces her engagement, then they will be losing two Imperial princesses in quick succession, leaving not a lot of Imperial Princesses to do the work. Princess Aiko will be 20 this year, but I suspect that the Empress will shield her away from Imperial duties as much as possible.

As stated in the past, on several occasions, this matter was not be discussed during the sitting of this government - yet here we are! Very very very intriguing! This is so much better than the soap opera that is Harry and Meghan....
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