Succession and Membership Issues - Page 10

Elspeth · #**181** 03-13-2006, 02:18 AM

It's disturbing that this male-only business is going hand in hand with historical revisionism and resurgence of racist beliefs. This seems to be overall a rather unhealthy combination for a technologically advanced country in the 21st century that's trying to get along in the wider world.

It's also ironic that this precious male line is one going back to a female deity. Perhaps, being a deity, she had her own Y chromosome.

There are some interesting articles about the Japanese Imperial family and its history here:

http://www.etoile.co.uk/Columns/PandorasBox/040921.html
http://www.etoile.co.uk/Columns/PandorasBox/040928.html
http://www.etoile.co.uk/Columns/PandorasBox/041005.html
http://www.etoile.co.uk/Columns/PandorasBox/041012.html
http://www.etoile.co.uk/Columns/PandorasBox/041221.html

mandyy · #**182** 03-13-2006, 09:23 PM

No happy ending yet in Japan's royal tale
................Palace officials have gone mum on the pregnancy and urged the media to stop making a fuss, amid speculation that the Crown Prince and his wife are also trying desperately for another child now.
And last Friday (March 10), the Government missed its deadline for putting the succession reform proposals to parliament.
But if no new princes come along, the question of who can be monarch will arise again..................
http://www.asianewsnet.net/level3_te...&news_id=53599

Saragli · #**183** 03-13-2006, 10:08 PM

I wish they would change. Aiko is so cute and I love how shy she was at disney world. Very cute.

Hotdog · #**184** 03-13-2006, 10:43 PM

The public protest to a female succeeding the thrones seems large but it is part of a very very large city.

I think there are always extremists in every large public debate. Looking back in Australian history to the 60s when the referendum was held to recognize the aboriginal population of this nation as citizens and people 91% approved in the only referrendum to ever get the nod (referrendums traditionally get the NO vote).

But when you think about it even in the 60s there were enough extremists (9% in a compulsory referrendum) that voted for these people to remain classified with the cattle of the country (where they were officially recorded up to that point) with no rights as citizens.

I think the situation in Japan is terrible on the CP couple and I hope the public are not swayed by this extreme minority.

Hotdog

soCal girl · #**185** 03-15-2006, 01:24 AM

Little Aiko must be bewildered at what's going on even if she doesn't understand it....or maybe she's being kept away from it. Either way, Empress or not (hopefully she will be!), she's kind of making her own mark in the Imperial history by causing waves. Either she's going to be Empress (and that's history) or she'll be the almost-made-Empress.

I don't understand why Japan even has royal born princesses if they can never achieve the throne and have to give up their title once they marry. I mean, what's the point?

Elspeth · #**186** 03-16-2006, 01:13 AM

Good question.

Jo of Palatine · #**187** 03-16-2006, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soCal girl

Little Aiko must be bewildered at what's going on even if she doesn't understand it....or maybe she's being kept away from it. Either way, Empress or not (hopefully she will be!), she's kind of making her own mark in the Imperial history by causing waves. Either she's going to be Empress (and that's history) or she'll be the almost-made-Empress.

I don't understand why Japan even has royal born princesses if they can never achieve the throne and have to give up their title once they marry. I mean, what's the point?

Thinking about what I have heard so far of the Imperial household, IMHO Aiko can thank her fate on her knees if she need not become the Empress... Seems the "Royal" personages in Japan are nothing more than gaudily clad puppets for the household agency.

As to the question above: AFAIK princesses only have to give up their position if they marry commoners. There should be some men around aristocratic enough for them to marry but in the last decades the (few - 2?) princesses did not choose one of them. Does anyone know better?

CrownPrinceLorenzo · #**188** 03-17-2006, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine

Thinking about what I have heard so far of the Imperial household, IMHO Aiko can thank her fate on her knees if she need not become the Empress... Seems the "Royal" personages in Japan are nothing more than gaudily clad puppets for the household agency.

As to the question above: AFAIK princesses only have to give up their position if they marry commoners. There should be some men around aristocratic enough for them to marry but in the last decades the (few - 2?) princesses did not choose one of them. Does anyone know better?

The nobles and aristocrats were abolished by the U.S. after WWII. So unless a Princess marries her first or second cousin, she has no choice but to marry a commoner.

MARG · #**189** 03-17-2006, 04:57 AM

The nobles and aristocrats may have been abolished by America, but they are still who they were. Their lines were not severed, their decendants were not murdered.

Maybe it's time Japan made a few decisions as to the way they run "their country" and "their culture", and formally reinstate "their heritage". I believe that there is a precedent for an Empress, and that a lot of attitudes there owe more to western influence post war than to tradition and today.
Whatever happens, God bless Princess Aiko, who regardless of the outcome is loved by her parents and the Japanese people. :)

CrownPrinceLorenzo · #**190** 03-17-2006, 04:28 PM

The problem is they have no titles. They need the titles. 'Coz in Japan, the female MUST join the male's family.

So if the male is a commoner, she will become a commoner.

Amina · #**191** 03-18-2006, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspeth

It's disturbing that this male-only business is going hand in hand with historical revisionism and resurgence of racist beliefs. This seems to be overall a rather unhealthy combination for a technologically advanced country in the 21st century that's trying to get along in the wider world.

It's also ironic that this precious male line is one going back to a female deity. Perhaps, being a deity, she had her own Y chromosome.

There are some interesting articles about the Japanese Imperial family and its history here:

http://www.etoile.co.uk/Columns/PandorasBox/040921.html
http://www.etoile.co.uk/Columns/PandorasBox/040928.html
http://www.etoile.co.uk/Columns/PandorasBox/041005.html
http://www.etoile.co.uk/Columns/PandorasBox/041012.html
http://www.etoile.co.uk/Columns/PandorasBox/041221.html

Thanks for the links. Just skimmed through one or two articles. The IHA are VERY sinister IMO - everyone should read those articles. I DO NOT envy CP Masako or the JRF at all. It seems to me they are birds trapped in a cage with no way of getting out.

As for the reform - the quicker it comes the better.

CrownPrinceLorenzo · #**192** 03-19-2006, 04:21 PM

Since we're talking about how evil the IHA is.

Anyone else think Princess Takamatsu was poisoned by the IHA?

She was always defiant of the IHA and was the first Imperial Family Member to support a succession change to allow women once again to ascend the throne.

Elspeth · #**193** 03-19-2006, 06:23 PM

Well, she was rather old so it'd be hard to prove.

Now, if Masako fetches up face down in the river with her throat cut and "thus perish all enemies of the state" carved across her chest in Kanji, you may be onto something...

CrownPrinceLorenzo · #**194** 03-19-2006, 07:30 PM

Well her bio said she died of blood poisoning. So I kinda made me think of a sinister plot the IHA came up with. Hehe.

Toledo · #**195** 03-19-2006, 08:14 PM

What a difference a chromosome makes! Part of the problem seems to be the lack of information allowed to come out of the stars of this problem, namely the Crown Prince & family. Seems their extremely regulated lives don't allow them to get on TV, King Juan Carlos' style, and fight for their daugther's rights.
Masako's situation brings to memory of a famous Olympic figureskater, the spectacular Midori Ito. First and for years the only woman who perform a triple axel in competition. When she became a Pro and the Winter games came up to be in Japan in 1998, she was pushed to go back and compete in Amateur ranks by pressure from the Japanesse Olympic comittee who used public pressure to 'make' her compete for Japan. The whole thing became a train wreck. She was such a mess she responded to the political pressure and the stress by becoming anorexic and in the height of the skating season, in 1997, she was rushed to a hospital and her career ended there. She was still allowed to light the Olympic flame in Nagano.

My point is that when I heard of Masako's stress related problems it was like seeing Midori Ito's life repeated all over again and by the same people, not the Imperial household but the politicians who seem to control it. Public pressure manipulated by political agencies wrecked two very public figures in Japan, their greatest figure skater and their Consort Crown Princess, and both with the same results on the ladies choosing to self destruct to that pressure.

monica17 · #**196** 04-28-2006, 05:22 AM

Here is a link to a fairly recent article on the Y-Chromosone and the Succession Debate in Japan....

http://www.newsobserver.com/559/story/430911.html

mandyy · #**197** 06-02-2006, 03:36 AM

LDP panel drafts report on imperial succession from 'neutral ground'

(Kyodo) _ A study panel of the ruling Liberal Democratic Party on imperial succession on Friday presented two different proposals in its draft report -- allowing female monarchs to ascend the imperial throne and preserving the current male-line succession.
.............The draft report shows that the panel discussions focused around two ideas -- preserving the current imperial succession which allows only male imperial heirs who have emperors on their fathers' side to ascend the throne, or allowing female monarchs and their descendants to reign..................The final draft is expected to be compiled by the end of the current Diet session on June 18 and to be submitted to LDP Policy Research Council Chairman Hidenao Nakagawa...........................
http://asia.news.yahoo.com/060602/kyodo/d8hvsa700.html

CrownPrinceLorenzo · #**198** 06-03-2006, 04:48 PM

My goodness, nothing's changed...

Elspeth · #**199** 06-03-2006, 10:36 PM

What a surprise...

Skydragon · #**200** 06-04-2006, 06:52 AM

Land of the rising daughter

For the first time in centuries a girl stands to inherit the Japanese throne. But a female succession would spell the end of the line for the monarchy. And the crisis has led to a power play behind the scenes, involving a troubled princess, a murdered diplomat and a surprising new contender for the crown.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...6861_1,00.html