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  #101  
Old 07-29-2020, 01:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Leopoldine View Post
Having just read "Royals at War", it would be foolish to underestimate Meghan's miscalculation of the Monarchy. If the book is right.

Why a person like her -- environmentally-oriented, pronounced political leanings, all woke about gender/race/vegan paint/ etc. would marry a member of the BRF is odd. Love is one thing, but the BRF is no place for building "issues" platforms. The monarchy is about continuance; the world may be moving fast, but some things remain as British cultural identity.
I think it's something that the vast majority of Americans misconstrue about the British Royal Family. For the most part what you see in mainstream US media is the fairytale weddings, the uniforms and tiaras, and occasionally things like newsreels of Diana in Africa or with children. You never hear about the constraints of being in the family, the more mundane tasks like watching parading soldiers or opening hospitals, the sense of duty that comes with being in the family, and its ties to British cultural identity. I think she thought she was going to have this amazing global platform to push through the things that she wanted to advocate for and change, and instead found that she couldn't say or do anything that could be interpreted as too radical or professing a polarizing political opinion. So there goes a huge, huge chunk of her "woke" activism. The BRF advocates for things that they're passionate about (Charles and the environment, Kate and children's issues for instance) but it's all generally very neutral and doesn't really cause a stir.
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  #102  
Old 07-29-2020, 02:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Leopoldine View Post
Having just read "Royals at War", it would be foolish to underestimate Meghan's miscalculation of the Monarchy. If the book is right.

Why a person like her -- environmentally-oriented, pronounced political leanings, all woke about gender/race/vegan paint/ etc. would marry a member of the BRF is odd. Love is one thing, but the BRF is no place for building "issues" platforms. The monarchy is about continuance; the world may be moving fast, but some things remain as British cultural identity.

Maybe she is just fame hungry? Before her relationship with Harry, Meghan was just another random actress on a TV show many people haven't heard of. After she was linked with Harry, she became the most searched woman on Google in 2016. And like acdc1 said, many Americans only see the glamourous part of the monarchy, perhaps Meghan thought that she would wear a tiara whenever she's on an engagement.
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  #103  
Old 07-29-2020, 02:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Leopoldine View Post
Having just read "Royals at War", it would be foolish to underestimate Meghan's miscalculation of the Monarchy. If the book is right.

Why a person like her -- environmentally-oriented, pronounced political leanings, all woke about gender/race/vegan paint/ etc. would marry a member of the BRF is odd. Love is one thing, but the BRF is no place for building "issues" platforms. The monarchy is about continuance; the world may be moving fast, but some things remain as British cultural identity.
Good point...

Personally, I think it's extremely relevant that the word "obsessed" was used in the book to describe Harry and Meghan's feelings after/during only a couple of dates.......Also, that Harry seemed to be in a "trance". That does not sound healthy to me. Maybe he was looking for something (confidence, for one) in her that he felt he lacked. Charles nicknamed Meghan "tungsten", which means she's a tough cookie. See below for definition. In some ways, that's a good thing, and I believe he meant it in a positive way, but in others it's not. I think she's on the hard side, Harry on the soft....My brother has two ex-wives who I could describe as hard (one of whom is downright evil).....and yes, he's soft (in the sense that he's just a good guy who often doesn't stand up for himself)

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Tungsten has the highest melting point and lowest vapor pressure of all metals, and at temperatures over 1650°C has the highest tensile strength. It has excellent corrosion resistance and is attacked only slightly by most mineral acids.
  #104  
Old 07-29-2020, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by acdc1 View Post
I think it's something that the vast majority of Americans misconstrue about the British Royal Family. For the most part what you see in mainstream US media is the fairytale weddings, the uniforms and tiaras, and occasionally things like newsreels of Diana in Africa or with children. You never hear about the constraints of being in the family, the more mundane tasks like watching parading soldiers or opening hospitals, the sense of duty that comes with being in the family, and its ties to British cultural identity. I think she thought she was going to have this amazing global platform to push through the things that she wanted to advocate for and change, and instead found that she couldn't say or do anything that could be interpreted as too radical or professing a polarizing political opinion. So there goes a huge, huge chunk of her "woke" activism. The BRF advocates for things that they're passionate about (Charles and the environment, Kate and children's issues for instance) but it's all generally very neutral and doesn't really cause a stir.
well some of Charles' activism and his causes have caused a stir, and he;s been criticized for using his position as POW to push for various things.. and nowadays I think he is more cautious...
But re Meghan maybe she was concerned about the state of the world and believed that the RF would give her a platform.. but - Im not so sure. Im sure she did want to use the royal position to do good.. but was it really foremost in her mind?
I think the restrictions of various kinds DID bother her.. but it was not all her virtuously feeling "OH I wanted to do something for the poor and this RF says I can't talk about this or that issue".. I think she felt irritated if she was told say "You can't speak about something like abortion because its a contentious issue.." or "You have to give way to harry in public" or stuff like tat.
And possibly she was told that if she took up causes, it was about the cause, and wasn't' meant to be a platform for her to talk about herself so to speak..
I can understand some fo the irritation but IMO she took it too far and wouldn't give the "RF as platform" idea a chance. She found herself restricted. She found herself criticized.. She got annoyed and wanted out.
And I think she again didn't understand that she could not go around making money as a royal.... again, she got cross, and wouldn't work to find a way around the limitations of the position. I think she saw some junior royals engaging in business, and didn't realize that as a senior working royal she could not do the same..
I suspect she saw Charles's Duchy brand being sold and didn't understand that apart from running an estate, "business" is kind of verboten for senior royals. Just as Fergie wrote a book years ago and justified it by saying she would donate the profits to charity..but then it emerged that she din't give all that much of it to charity.. and then justified herself by saying that she really needed to make money.
I think Meg had believed that as a royal, she would get a lot of adulation, like Diana had had.... that she'd be very very rich and have no restrictions on what she spent (and was told that conspicuous consumption isn't looked on well with old fashioned British).. and overall instead of trying to find wriggle room, and work iwthin the limitations of the job, she got angry and wanted to get out...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyDrx View Post
Maybe she is just fame hungry? Before her relationship with Harry, Meghan was just another random actress on a TV show many people haven't heard of. After she was linked with Harry, she became the most searched woman on Google in 2016. And like acdc1 said, many Americans only see the glamourous part of the monarchy, perhaps Meghan thought that she would wear a tiara whenever she's on an engagement.
I don't know if she's "fame hungry" but I dont think she's really got her mind all the time on doing good...I agree that she' probably didn't have a clear idea of what the RF is about and that its not so glamourous as it might appear if you watch the big ceremonial occasions. I think she thought that a lot of the "charity" side of things would be like a Hollywood charity event complete with red carpet and glitzy dresses and photographers ...
I dont think she really got that social life within the RF would also be rather mundane.. county walks, shooting parties, muddy wellies sort of life with an elderly and unglamorous lady at the head of things...
  #105  
Old 07-31-2020, 01:42 PM
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I think right now they are adjusting to the cost of their new life, and wondering how to make money and still be woke.
  #106  
Old 08-22-2020, 07:55 PM
Aristocracy
 
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Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
Good point...
Charles nicknamed Meghan "tungsten", which means she's a tough cookie. See below for definition. In some ways, that's a good thing, and I believe he meant it in a positive way, but in others it's not.
Interesting that her persona is that of being extremely resilient, but in the end she was talking about"surviving" not "thriving" and not having a voice. Either the press abuse was so severe that her resilience was not enough to withstand it, or she wasn't that tough in the first place. There is a third option, however: she just didn't like being part of the BRF because of its constraints; she didn't want to compromise. I don't see much fragility in Meghan.
  #107  
Old 08-22-2020, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by caethi View Post
Interesting that her persona is that of being extremely resilient, but in the end she was talking about"surviving" not "thriving" and not having a voice. Either the press abuse was so severe that her resilience was not enough to withstand it, or she wasn't that tough in the first place. There is a third option, however: she just didn't like being part of the BRF because of its constraints; she didn't want to compromise. I don't see much fragility in Meghan.
I found that odd too. She's supposed to be tough and ambitious, and a hard worker.. yet within a year or so of getting into her new life, she wanted out of it.. because of the stress of it all. It may be me, but when I watched that little bit of TV where she said that it was tough and that noone had asked how she was doing etc, it sounded fake. I may be being unfair to her, because I think that Harry's genuine in his way about HIS mental health problems and he was getting upset about negative press and Meg being criticized and perhaps last year the whole thing was truly getting on top of him. but she sounded like she was not sincere in "being stressed out"....
  #108  
Old 08-22-2020, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
well some of Charles' activism and his causes have caused a stir, and he;s been criticized for using his position as POW to push for various things.. and nowadays I think he is more cautious...
But re Meghan maybe she was concerned about the state of the world and believed that the RF would give her a platform.. but - Im not so sure. Im sure she did want to use the royal position to do good.. but was it really foremost in her mind?
I think the restrictions of various kinds DID bother her.. but it was not all her virtuously feeling "OH I wanted to do something for the poor and this RF says I can't talk about this or that issue".. I think she felt irritated if she was told say "You can't speak about something like abortion because its a contentious issue.." or "You have to give way to harry in public" or stuff like tat.
And possibly she was told that if she took up causes, it was about the cause, and wasn't' meant to be a platform for her to talk about herself so to speak..
I can understand some fo the irritation but IMO she took it too far and wouldn't give the "RF as platform" idea a chance. She found herself restricted. She found herself criticized.. She got annoyed and wanted out.
And I think she again didn't understand that she could not go around making money as a royal.... again, she got cross, and wouldn't work to find a way around the limitations of the position. I think she saw some junior royals engaging in business, and didn't realize that as a senior working royal she could not do the same..
I suspect she saw Charles's Duchy brand being sold and didn't understand that apart from running an estate, "business" is kind of verboten for senior royals. Just as Fergie wrote a book years ago and justified it by saying she would donate the profits to charity..but then it emerged that she din't give all that much of it to charity.. and then justified herself by saying that she really needed to make money.
I think Meg had believed that as a royal, she would get a lot of adulation, like Diana had had.... that she'd be very very rich and have no restrictions on what she spent (and was told that conspicuous consumption isn't looked on well with old fashioned British).. and overall instead of trying to find wriggle room, and work iwthin the limitations of the job, she got angry and wanted to get out...

I agree with part of what you said, especially when it comes to Meghan probably not understanding beforehand the restrictions she would be under as a senior royal.

I am hesistant, however, to believe that Meghan is so shallow to the point of having been disappointed because she was not able to spend without limit as she might have assumed, or because she didn't have the kind of lavish life she imagined as a royal.

Yes, Meghan did not become a billionaire or even a multimillionaire after marrying Harry, but she did get the treatment accorded to a princess, including military personnel standing in attention for you, people curtsying and bowing to you and addressing you as "Your Royal Highness" and "Madam", or being received for example on her Commonwealth tours with honors almost comparable to those of the wife of a Head of State. And, even if there were limits on her spending, she had no shortage of wardrobe or jewelry for her cerimonial functions and, had she stayed in the RF, she would have had even more items at her disposal.

I guess I mean to ask what else she wanted if indeed, as you said, she felt that what she was getting was not enough. Especially compared to her previous life as a cable TV actress living in Canada.
  #109  
Old 08-22-2020, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I agree with part of what you said, especially when it comes to Meghan probably not understanding beforehand the restrictions she would be under as a senior royal.

I am hesistant, however, to believe that Meghan is so shallow to the point of having been disappointed because she was not able to spend without limit as she might have assumed, or because she didn't have the kind of lavish life she imagined as a royal.

Yes, Meghan did not become a billionaire or even a multimillionaire after marrying Harry, but she did get the treatment accorded to a princess, including military personnel standing in attention for you, people curtsying and bowing to you and addressing you as "Your Royal Highness" and "Madam", or being received for example on her Commonwealth tours with honors almost comparable to those of the wife of a Head of State. And, even if there were limits on her spending, she had no shortage of wardrobe or jewelry for her cerimonial functions and, had she stayed in the RF, she would have had even more items at her disposal.

I guess I mean to ask what else she wanted if indeed, as you said, she felt that what she was getting was not enough. Especially compared to her previous life as a cable TV actress living in Canada.
Because even with access to the best of everything that you listed she never accepted the fact that she was never going to sit on the throne and wear a crown and be called her majesty the queen. That is why in the book most of their complaints is aimed at the Cambridge’s. It’s as if she is insulted that boring Catherine is going to be queen and Hollywood Meghan will have to bow and curtesy to her Meghan thinks it should be the other way around. Boring old fashion Kate should bow to the greatest thing to ever walk this planet Meghan Markle the most perfect human being that everyone is jealous of. It was never about race with Meghan the race was just her excuse card.
  #110  
Old 08-23-2020, 03:56 AM
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Originally Posted by KellyAtLast View Post
Because even with access to the best of everything that you listed she never accepted the fact that she was never going to sit on the throne and wear a crown and be called her majesty the queen. That is why in the book most of their complaints is aimed at the Cambridge’s. It’s as if she is insulted that boring Catherine is going to be queen and Hollywood Meghan will have to bow and curtesy to her Meghan thinks it should be the other way around. Boring old fashion Kate should bow to the greatest thing to ever walk this planet Meghan Markle the most perfect human being that everyone is jealous of. It was never about race with Meghan the race was just her excuse card.

I remember seeing some of their fans on Twitter called her "Queen Meghan" some time ago, as if calling her that would magically make her Queen. Those fans also hypocritically calling out those who insulted Meghan, but they themselves love to call Kate with insulting names. And their most radical fans actually wished William and Kate as well as their 3 children death so Meghan could be Queen. Harry said that social media can be toxic right? Perhaps he and Meghan could start with the Sussex Squad first.
  #111  
Old 08-23-2020, 04:04 AM
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Originally Posted by RandyDrx View Post
I remember seeing some of their fans on Twitter called her "Queen Meghan" some time ago, as if calling her that would magically make her Queen. Those fans also hypocritically calling out those who insulted Meghan, but they themselves love to call Kate with insulting names. And their most radical fans actually wished William and Kate as well as their 3 children death so Meghan could be Queen. Harry said that social media can be toxic right? Perhaps he and Meghan could start with the Sussex Squad first.
I can't buy into the thinking that Meghan would resent the idea of Catherine being Queen and she, herself, imagined being in that role. Although I do not know Meghan or her mindset, I would hope that even with the short period of time that she was actively part of the BRF as a senior working royal, she would have realized that if she thought she was being hindered by restrictions as The Duchess of Sussex, being Queen would have been even a more tedious and restricting role to her.

Fans may call her "Queen" but to me that shows a level of intelligence that deem the role of "Queen" as something out of a Disney fairy tale and wearing sparkly tiaras and crowns and waving at crowds rather than seeing "Queen" as a serious and demanding role of being a Head of State.
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  #112  
Old 08-23-2020, 05:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I can't buy into the thinking that Meghan would resent the idea of Catherine being Queen and she, herself, imagined being in that role. Although I do not know Meghan or her mindset, I would hope that even with the short period of time that she was actively part of the BRF as a senior working royal, she would have realized that if she thought she was being hindered by restrictions as The Duchess of Sussex, being Queen would have been even a more tedious and restricting role to her.

Fans may call her "Queen" but to me that shows a level of intelligence that deem the role of "Queen" as something out of a Disney fairy tale and wearing sparkly tiaras and crowns and waving at crowds rather than seeing "Queen" as a serious and demanding role of being a Head of State.
I think modern/young social media users use also a lot of "Yas, Queen!!!" or "Queen" to compliment any strong or "badass" women, who has accomplish difficult jobs. For example, "QueenBey" is used to describe Beyonce. I learn this from experiences in twitter.

I think the book, Royals at War would definitely stir up more tension between Sussex squads and other royal watchers (or even general public) who are sceptical of them. To me, this book is almost like Finding Freedom 2.0.
  #113  
Old 08-23-2020, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I can't buy into the thinking that Meghan would resent the idea of Catherine being Queen and she, herself, imagined being in that role. Although I do not know Meghan or her mindset, I would hope that even with the short period of time that she was actively part of the BRF as a senior working royal, she would have realized that if she thought she was being hindered by restrictions as The Duchess of Sussex, being Queen would have been even a more tedious and restricting role to her.

Fans may call her "Queen" but to me that shows a level of intelligence that deem the role of "Queen" as something out of a Disney fairy tale and wearing sparkly tiaras and crowns and waving at crowds rather than seeing "Queen" as a serious and demanding role of being a Head of State.
It seems as if much of the criticism in the book was of William and Kate, rather than other royals...So its possible that Meg did feel annoyed about them, more than the others. I think that she never seriously intended to stick out the job...
  #114  
Old 08-23-2020, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by KellyAtLast View Post
Because even with access to the best of everything that you listed she never accepted the fact that she was never going to sit on the throne and wear a crown and be called her majesty the queen. That is why in the book most of their complaints is aimed at the Cambridge’s. It’s as if she is insulted that boring Catherine is going to be queen and Hollywood Meghan will have to bow and curtesy to her Meghan thinks it should be the other way around. Boring old fashion Kate should bow to the greatest thing to ever walk this planet Meghan Markle the most perfect human being that everyone is jealous of. It was never about race with Meghan the race was just her excuse card.
I don't think she cared for the position of Queen with its responsibilities and restrictions. But after the very positive feedback she got at the beginning and because Harry was the favourite of the media I believe she thought she was going to be the next people's princess, she imagined Harry and herself as the "King and Queen of Hearts" (and the Cambridges can stick to the boring rules and routines). But that's not how it turned out. The public and media turned cold towards her quite soon. Whereas Catherine, according to the books' sources a woman she clearly feels superior to, managed to gain the respect of the courtiers and the media and the love of the family and the people. "Boring" Catherine succeeded where "perfect" Meghan failed, that' s why the attacks are targeted towards Catherine in particular.

And I agree: Race is Meghan's excuse card just as Diana's death and his mental issues are and always have been Harry's excuse card. Those topics only come up when its convenient for them.
  #115  
Old 08-23-2020, 02:33 PM
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Even if Meghan ever wanted to be Queen, I’m sure she doesn’t want it now. The role comes with restrictions that she can’t abide.

Meghan’s frame of reference is celebrity, because that’s the world she has spent most of her life in. Celebrity at the end of the day, is a popularity contest and that’s how she viewed the BRF. So, makes sense why she would think she’d be more relevant that Kate, if she viewed herself as more popular than her.

She left because that’s what she wants at the end of the day— to be so popular that the Hollywood glitterati, that so ignored her when she was a cable actress, come falling at her feet.
  #116  
Old 08-23-2020, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ricarda View Post
I don't think she cared for the position of Queen with its responsibilities and restrictions. But after the very positive feedback she got at the beginning and because Harry was the favourite of the media I believe she thought she was going to be the next people's princess, she imagined Harry and herself as the "King and Queen of Hearts" (and the Cambridges can stick to the boring rules and routines). But that's not how it turned out. The public and media turned cold towards her quite soon. Whereas Catherine, according to the books' sources a woman she clearly feels superior to, managed to gain the respect of the courtiers and the media and the love of the family and the people. "Boring" Catherine succeeded where "perfect" Meghan failed, that' s why the attacks are targeted towards Catherine in particular.

And I agree: Race is Meghan's excuse card just as Diana's death and his mental issues are and always have been Harry's excuse card. Those topics only come up when its convenient for them.
I am not sure that Meghan feels “ clearly superior” to Kate. They are not that different really in many respects. Both have degrees from top universities. Kate speaks French; Meghan speaks Spanish. Meghan had a longer professional career prior to getting married, but Kate understandably has more familiarity now with royal life and its state role; she has been in a larger number of official visits and state events for example. Kate also comes from a more stable family apparently than Meghan’s, which gives her an edge so to speak.

I am not trying to compare the two women or pitch one against the other. I am just trying to understand why Meghan would feel clearly superior. It looks unnatural to me for her to feel that way when there is no objective reason to back that feeling.


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Originally Posted by Eskimo View Post
Even if Meghan ever wanted to be Queen, I’m sure she doesn’t want it now. The role comes with restrictions that she can’t abide.

Meghan’s frame of reference is celebrity, because that’s the world she has spent most of her life in. Celebrity at the end of the day, is a popularity contest and that’s how she viewed the BRF. So, makes sense why she would think she’d be more relevant that Kate, if she viewed herself as more popular than her.



Except that she was not. No opinion poll that I can recall has ever shown the Duchess of Sussex to have a higher favorability score than the Duchess of Cambridge. So, again, why would Meghan think she was more popular ?
  #117  
Old 08-23-2020, 03:28 PM
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Merged with the previous post.
  #118  
Old 08-23-2020, 06:12 PM
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I have read the posts and agree with them or most of them.I must say I believe if Meghan would be in Kate's place and Harry would be in his brothers shoes,so it would make them number two and not one lower,this would be perfectly fine at least with Meghan. It is really sad if self importance is a greater need then DUTY and RESPONSIBILITY,to the people and the family she married into. Using the horrible death of the late POW Diana and the need for fame,is the wrong way to go about it. Either one wants to be a Royal with all the trimmings,or a Celebrity?. Let me tell you Celebs are here today and gone tomorrow. Celebs meet the same Paparazzi on their way up or on their way down, when no one remembers who they are. Want to be a celeb with a title? really,this is a big EGO trip. Sorry posters this is only MO, no need to agree with me.
  #119  
Old 08-23-2020, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Eskimo View Post
Even if Meghan ever wanted to be Queen, I’m sure she doesn’t want it now. The role comes with restrictions that she can’t abide.

Meghan’s frame of reference is celebrity, because that’s the world she has spent most of her life in. Celebrity at the end of the day, is a popularity contest and that’s how she viewed the BRF. So, makes sense why she would think she’d be more relevant that Kate, if she viewed herself as more popular than her.

She left because that’s what she wants at the end of the day— to be so popular that the Hollywood glitterati, that so ignored her when she was a cable actress, come falling at her feet.
Don't think she actually wanted to be QUEEN but she was annoyed that she was secondary to the future queen. I think she did think she'd be the really popular adored Royal, that the RF would see this and let her do what she wanted, including taking time off to make more money...
when she didn't get adoration from the Press and not that much adoration from the public.. she got antsy and began to fear that she could not build up enough popularity in the UK to get the RF to let her do things the way she wanted...I think she was dismayed when she got a lot of bad press for doing "what a movie star does.." ie having an expensive baby shower trip to America...
And before long, I think you're right that what she really really wanted, was to go back to the US and be a star there, whehter in movies or through public speaking or a business...
  #120  
Old 08-23-2020, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I
I am not trying to compare the two women or pitch one against the other. I am just trying to understand why Meghan would feel clearly superior. It looks unnatural to me for her to feel that way when there is no objective reason to back that feeling.







Except that she was not. No opinion poll that I can recall has ever shown the Duchess of Sussex to have a higher favorability score than the Duchess of Cambridge. So, again, why would Meghan think she was more popular ?
People don't need to have "objective reasons" to feel superior... Its an emotional thing.. I think that Meghan may have felt that she had been a successful career woman whereas Kate had been seen as not wanting a job, and waiting for William to make her his wife. SHE jumped in confidently to royal duties, whereas Kate had done relatively few engagements in the first years of her marriage...Certainly fans of Meghan have pointed her out as a "hard worker" as opposed to "Lazy" Waity Katey".....
And I believe that Meghan may have felt that she would be the "Diana of the 2020s RF".. Diana wasn't queen, when she was married to Charles but she was very popular with the press and public and the "Queen of hearts". Probably Meg saw herself as the "really popular one" while Camilla was older and Kate was rather dull and not so active so she felt sure she wwould be the one the crowds rushed to see, who was loved by the Press and who was on TV and had her face on the cover of magazines...
Bu that didn't really happen... She didn't get a big rush of adoration, and she didn't stay around long enough to build up anything...
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