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  #61  
Old 05-20-2020, 03:01 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
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Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
I won’t be reading this book, but I’m sure it will be fascinating. Andrew was spoiled and indulged - it’s no wonder he turned out to be a spoiled and entitled adult.

The title is ridiculous, I have to say; the author is probably a Republican who hates the monarchy if he thinks Andrew has ruined the monarchy.
Indeed. It´s so pathetic...
I´m sure it is not worth the paper it is written on. Prince Andrew is surely far from being a Saint, like we all are not. But he is hardly an evil demon, too!
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  #62  
Old 05-22-2020, 03:47 AM
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Originally Posted by wartenberg7 View Post
Indeed. It´s so pathetic...
I´m sure it is not worth the paper it is written on. Prince Andrew is surely far from being a Saint, like we all are not. But he is hardly an evil demon, too!
Perhaps not an evil demon, but within the limits of "ordinary badness" he has behaved pretty awfully. his good points are that he's been a good father and tried to be a good husband to Sarah. I think it wasn't his fault that she got bored with him...and sought for pastures new..but the end of the marriage left him free to lead a very self indulgent life.. hence the desire to have friends who would make it easy for him to meet women.. and Sarah's clinging to him, her money problems, led him into also looking for friends who would help them both make money.
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  #63  
Old 05-22-2020, 03:49 AM
Majesty
 
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
I didn't mean to imply that Dave's financial assistance amounted to millions at a time. I am sure it did not. But I have no problems believing that he occasionally gave her $$ when she was in a pinch. She would have definitely not have had a problem accepting it.

It would not have necessarily always costed millions to bail her out.
No, Im sure they didn't bail her out to a massive amount, but yes I think it is likely that if they were comfortably off, they were appealed to by Beatrice to "Help Mummy" and probably complied.. relatively small amounts but all the same, Im sure that they were a bit reluctant and complied out of affection for Bea....I'd say all Fergie's well to do friends were asked to help out at times...
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  #64  
Old 05-22-2020, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Perhaps not an evil demon, but within the limits of "ordinary badness" he has behaved pretty awfully. his good points are that he's been a good father and tried to be a good husband to Sarah. I think it wasn't his fault that she got bored with him...and sought for pastures new..but the end of the marriage left him free to lead a very self indulgent life.. hence the desire to have friends who would make it easy for him to meet women.. and Sarah's clinging to him, her money problems, led him into also looking for friends who would help them both make money.
Andrew and Sarah's marriage didn't last due to the *both* of them not really being together enough to form a firm foundation for the marriage. Andrew was away a lot with the Navy and Sarah is naturally a restless being, IMO. Absence made the heart go wander. When it comes down to the nitty gritty and having to actually put effort into something to make it grow whether it be their marriage, their finances or their charity work, I believe they both looked for the easy path to success and found it littered with fool's gold.

Neither one of them really has, to this day, a strong sense of character and both of them sought acceptance, admiration and adulation in all the wrong places and in a lot of cases, it backfired on them horribly.

Leopards don't change their spots and zebras don't change their stripes and Andrew and Sarah are who they are and will remain such. Its sad that the mistakes they have made in life have defined them and no matter what they do going forward, they're never going to be the successful people they've tried so hard to become.
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  #65  
Old 05-22-2020, 12:57 PM
Gentry
 
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
No, Im sure they didn't bail her out to a massive amount, but yes I think it is likely that if they were comfortably off, they were appealed to by Beatrice to "Help Mummy" and probably complied.. relatively small amounts but all the same, Im sure that they were a bit reluctant and complied out of affection for Bea....I'd say all Fergie's well to do friends were asked to help out at times...
To imply that Beatrice / Eugenie asked "family friends "to "Help Mummy " financially is IMO outrageous . Yes I have no doubt that both girl's were put in "un -avoidable" positions during their parent's relationship , but both girl's have emerged as sensible , accomplished grown women . A credit to their Grandmother
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  #66  
Old 05-22-2020, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Andrew and Sarah's marriage didn't last due to the *both* of them not really being together enough to form a firm foundation for the marriage. Andrew was away a lot with the Navy and Sarah is naturally a restless being, IMO. Absence made the heart go wander. When it comes down to the nitty gritty and having to actually put effort into something to make it grow whether it be their marriage, their finances or their charity work, I believe they both looked for the easy path to success and found it littered with fool's gold.

Neither one of them really has, to this day, a strong sense of character and both of them sought acceptance, admiration and adulation in all the wrong places and in a lot of cases, it backfired on them horribly.

Leopards don't change their spots and zebras don't change their stripes and Andrew and Sarah are who they are and will remain such. Its sad that the mistakes they have made in life have defined them and no matter what they do going forward, they're never going to be the successful people they've tried so hard to become.
I think it didn't work because they are similar in their faults to a large extent.. Both of them are not very clever, selfish and thoughtless. I would not say that Sarah was as arrogant as Andy but she did I think get a bit high flown when married to him.. Being a Royal duchess went to her rather weak head. She had never had much money, now she had a lot more.. but it wasn't enough for her..She got extravagant and wanted to spend spend spend...
I think that when they DID spend time together, it showed them that they didn't have that much in common.. (rather like C and Di). She liked to go out and party, he liked to stay in or play golf. She took an interest In his work, but it wasn't enough to hold them together and I think she found his day to day company boring and began to look for more amusing men friends...
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  #67  
Old 05-22-2020, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by fabaunty View Post
To imply that Beatrice / Eugenie asked "family friends "to "Help Mummy " financially is IMO outrageous . Yes I have no doubt that both girl's were put in "un -avoidable" positions during their parent's relationship , but both girl's have emerged as sensible , accomplished grown women . A credit to their Grandmother
Family friends? Dave Clark was Beatrice's boyfriend.
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  #68  
Old 05-22-2020, 01:40 PM
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During the time Dave Clark was Beatrice's Boyfriend I doubt he was in a position to financially benefit either of her parents
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  #69  
Old 05-22-2020, 03:00 PM
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Looking back at the tape where Sarah is selling access to Andrew makes me astounded as to why the Queen ever let her anywhere near the family again. Sarah though was still invited to Balmoral etc without a blush, but why? Isn't that a hugely valid question? In that video she mentioned that Andrew had his price list so she clearly wasn't operating alone . It's as though the Queen had her blinkers on and her fingers in her ears all her life until Andrew's dirty dealings came to a head with the Epstein scandal.
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  #70  
Old 05-22-2020, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sophie25 View Post
Looking back at the tape where Sarah is selling access to Andrew makes me astounded as to why the Queen ever let her anywhere near the family again. Sarah though was still invited to Balmoral etc without a blush, but why? Isn't that a hugely valid question? In that video she mentioned that Andrew had his price list so she clearly wasn't operating alone . It's as though the Queen had her blinkers on and her fingers in her ears all her life until Andrew's dirty dealings came to a head with the Epstein scandal.
That's the common theme with the Queen and not just for Andrew.
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  #71  
Old 05-22-2020, 03:18 PM
Aristocracy
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sophie25 View Post
Looking back at the tape where Sarah is selling access to Andrew makes me astounded as to why the Queen ever let her anywhere near the family again. Sarah though was still invited to Balmoral etc without a blush, but why? Isn't that a hugely valid question? In that video she mentioned that Andrew had his price list so she clearly wasn't operating alone . It's as though the Queen had her blinkers on and her fingers in her ears all her life until Andrew's dirty dealings came to a head with the Epstein scandal.

Could it be Andrew was and is the Queens favorite child? She knows he is wrong but she overlooks it. Now we have Charles who is able to run things a bit more then before and is probably telling the Queen things she never wanted to acknowledge about Andrew....she has to face it not brush it away. Andrew will be dealing with Charles more and more. That will be very interesting. ....very interesting indeed.
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  #72  
Old 05-22-2020, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by fabaunty View Post
During the time Dave Clark was Beatrice's Boyfriend I doubt he was in a position to financially benefit either of her parents
Why? I presume he's a well to do young man, and I think that everyone who comes into contact with Sarah she sees as someone who might potentiallly help her out financially It doesn't have to be millions, but Im sure she was always "temporarily embarrassed " for funds and glad fo whatever she could raise...
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  #73  
Old 05-23-2020, 03:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsJulie View Post
Could it be Andrew was and is the Queens favorite child? She knows he is wrong but she overlooks it. Now we have Charles who is able to run things a bit more then before and is probably telling the Queen things she never wanted to acknowledge about Andrew....she has to face it not brush it away. Andrew will be dealing with Charles more and more. That will be very interesting. ....very interesting indeed.
Charles and the Queen are spineless when it comes to handling their wayward second sons!
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  #74  
Old 05-23-2020, 04:50 AM
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Originally Posted by KellyAtLast View Post
Charles and the Queen are spineless when it comes to handling their wayward second sons!
I think that's a bit harsh on Charles.. He did I think spoil Harry as a kid but now H is a big grown up and I think his foolish behaviour is on him. RE Andrew yes I think the queen did spoil him, and she shold have put her foot down a bit more in later years. Its not her fault that Andrew has become such a mess but I think she could have puhsed him to retire from royal duties and NOT let him do that disastrous interview. But she is a very old lady and has had a sheltered life. I think she does not wnt to believe that her favourite son could have behaved so awfully and she is willing to try to believe that he's not as bad as he's now being painted.
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  #75  
Old 05-23-2020, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by sophie25 View Post
Looking back at the tape where Sarah is selling access to Andrew makes me astounded as to why the Queen ever let her anywhere near the family again. Sarah though was still invited to Balmoral etc without a blush, but why? Isn't that a hugely valid question? In that video she mentioned that Andrew had his price list so she clearly wasn't operating alone . It's as though the Queen had her blinkers on and her fingers in her ears all her life until Andrew's dirty dealings came to a head with the Epstein scandal.
I think the answer to your question is that the Queen has a deep Christian faith and forgiveness is embedded in her character. She has always appeared to give people opportunities to redeem themselves.
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  #76  
Old 05-23-2020, 05:34 AM
Majesty
 
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Originally Posted by Lilyflo View Post
I think the answer to your question is that the Queen has a deep Christian faith and forgiveness is embedded in her character. She has always appeared to give people opportunities to redeem themselves.
I think she could have barred Sarah, but she didn't want to upset Andrew and she also didn't want to upset Bea and Eugenie. So she has gradually let Sarah spend time with the RF a bit more in recnet years.
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  #77  
Old 05-23-2020, 11:16 AM
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Minority opinion..but I do not believe that the fact that Andrew gave an interview addressing the Epstein controversy was the wrong decision. On the contrary it was what he should have done.

The huge, unmitigated disaster was the MANNER IN WHICH HE CONDUCTED HIMSELF. The answers he gave, his attitude...could not have been more offensive and self destructive.

What should have happened given all that was at stake was for Andrew to have FIRST been advised and prepared for such an interview by a team that included lawyers, public relations professionals and perhaps either HMQ or the PoW. Sarah should have had zero input if she in fact ever did.

Had Andrew projected the right response of humility, introspection, regret and compassion .in other words qualities that he has never been known to have...the interview might have indeed become a public relations coup for himself.

He could have averted this disaster.
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  #78  
Old 05-23-2020, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Minority opinion..but I do not believe that the fact that Andrew gave an interview addressing the Epstein controversy was the wrong decision. On the contrary it was what he should have done.

The huge, unmitigated disaster was the MANNER IN WHICH HE CONDUCTED HIMSELF. The answers he gave, his attitude...could not have been more offensive and self destructive.

What should have happened given all that was at stake was for Andrew to have FIRST been advised and prepared for such an interview by a team that included lawyers, public relations professionals and perhaps either HMQ or the PoW. Sarah should have had zero input if she in fact ever did.

Had Andrew projected the right response of humility, introspection, regret and compassion .in other words qualities that he has never been known to have...the interview might have indeed become a public relations coup for himself.

He could have averted this disaster.
I am not sure that sufficient preparation would have helped; that's why his advisor recommended a 'written interview'. He could still share his story but they would have much more control on how it would come across.
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  #79  
Old 05-23-2020, 11:29 AM
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Not sure I agree. Given the feverish press frenzy and allegations against him at the time, people would have needed to SEE and HEAR genuine...or the appearance of a genuine, mea culpa from the DoY.

A written interview would obviously had more control over content but from a pr standpoint it would not have accomplished what needed to be accomplished under the circumstances.

Written answers to questions vetted in advance would not have satisfied a cynical press and public.
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  #80  
Old 05-23-2020, 11:35 AM
Majesty
 
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Minority opinion..but I do not believe that the fact that Andrew gave an interview addressing the Epstein controversy was the wrong decision. On the contrary it was what he should have done.

The huge, unmitigated disaster was the MANNER IN WHICH HE CONDUCTED HIMSELF. The answers he gave, his attitude...could not have been more offensive and self destructive.

What should have happened given all that was at stake was for Andrew to have FIRST been advised and prepared for such an interview by a team that included lawyers, public relations professionals and perhaps either HMQ or the PoW. Sarah should have had zero input if she in fact ever did.

Had Andrew projected the right response of humility, introspection, regret and compassion .in other words qualities that he has never been known to have...the interview might have indeed become a public relations coup for himself.

He could have averted this disaster.
He couldn't because he is incapable of taking advice.. or "projecting the right response" because he didn't feel any remorse or any sense of wrong doing. He has little or no compassion for people whom he sees as lower in rank than himself.. and it was best to say nothng.
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