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  #21  
Old 05-16-2020, 06:53 AM
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I think the idea is that, unfortunately, scandal sells best. Books saying nice things about people never do as well. Prince Andrew was a naval hero, and he's done a reasonable job as an ambassador for British trade over the years. But, as many people - not just royals, but actors, pop stars, sports players and politicians have found - it's scandal that tends to stick. I'm not defending the bad things he's done, but any sort of biography should try to show a rounded picture of its subject.
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  #22  
Old 05-16-2020, 07:26 AM
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Well Andrew has enough scandal to sell a whole bookshelf.

Its interesting to hear how popular Andrew once was as I'm too young to remember those days! It could certainly be a lesson for others how quickly and dramatically one can fall from grace.

I think the book sounds as if it is trying to see why Andrew has turned out like he has and that means looking at everything that has contributed to him being the man he is now, the good as well as the bad. But maybe sometimes there is just more bad than good to write about. A well rounded book needs a well rounded subject.
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  #23  
Old 05-16-2020, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post

I'd like to learn about Andrew, also about his negative traits. But surely someone somewhere must have something good to say about him?
Good point!
I don't believe I've ever read any positive press about Andrew, even before the Epstein scandal.

I think his character might have been formed by what Charles once said of his brother: He's always wanted to be me.
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  #24  
Old 05-16-2020, 08:36 AM
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Sarah is always very supportive of him....
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  #25  
Old 05-16-2020, 09:15 AM
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Bear in mind the DM is just reporting on the book, without reading it in full we don't know what is says fully, it could be full of praise and the DM have just picked out the worst bits.
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  #26  
Old 05-16-2020, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
Bear in mind the DM is just reporting on the book, without reading it in full we don't know what is says fully, it could be full of praise and the DM have just picked out the worst bits.
I doubt it. Andrew's behaviour has been so bad In recent years, that I doubt if he's likely to get a lot of praise even from a sympathetic biographer. Even as a young man he was spoiled and arrogant, and I think that since his marriage, and the end of the marriage, his character has deteriorated, he's become not just arrogant but also greedy for money.. and seemingy completely indifferent to people whom he thinks of as "less" than himself.
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  #27  
Old 05-16-2020, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
Bear in mind the DM is just reporting on the book, without reading it in full we don't know what is says fully, it could be full of praise and the DM have just picked out the worst bits.
Actually, the article for the Daily Mail was written by the author of the book, himself. If anyone knows what is in the book, he does.
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  #28  
Old 05-16-2020, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
Good point!
I don't believe I've ever read any positive press about Andrew, even before the Epstein scandal.

I think his character might have been formed by what Charles once said of his brother: He's always wanted to be me.
I’ll eventually read it. I remember too when he was born. Shenanigans always seem to be a part of a prince who, imo, thought he was untouchable.

Your last paragraph Mirabel says it all....
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  #29  
Old 05-16-2020, 11:08 AM
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I am afraid that is a lesson more about the fickleness of society and today youth culture of celebrity - Andrew was lauded for his attractiveness and lad culture when he was younger and that sold papers. When the attraction waned as it does - his behavior was seen different. As a culture we do seem to make apologies for the behavior of young, rich and attractive people, we applaud and worship it, but nothing last forever.
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  #30  
Old 05-16-2020, 12:54 PM
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The one positive thing I can say about him is that he seems a fiercely devoted father, and his daughters evidently return the feeling. That to me is crucial. There is a LOT to be said in favor of a person who raises their children well. Even though one must also factor in the extremely competent Scottish nannies the Yorks hired...

On a Today Show interview with Meredith Vieira, Andrew gave all the credit for how well his daughters turned out to their mother.

Which I found very generous and gracious of him.

So that is one very important and positive thing I feel I can say about Andrew.

ETA: I loved Claire's observation that people will forgive a lot when one is young and beautiful as Andrew was. But our culture has become-paradoxically-more lax about moral values and also more judgmental and unforgiving. Especially if you are no longer young and attractive.

Andrew's dashing war heroism is virtually forgotten, even by the people old enough to remember it.

And i also agree that both he and Sarah deteriorated sharply after the end of their marriage. They have drifted from one negative headline to another ever since.
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  #31  
Old 05-16-2020, 08:12 PM
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A little more about the forthcoming book -

Sounds as though it is not just the Duke's story, but the "precipitous loss of trust" of the institution of the Monarchy.

I'll be glad if it is indeed a serious book that explores the networks that are involved at these high levels of business and society.

(Hit the "more" button to see the synopsis detail.)


https://books.apple.com/nz/book/prin...w/id1507343962
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  #32  
Old 05-17-2020, 05:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
The one positive thing I can say about him is that he seems a fiercely devoted father, and his daughters evidently return the feeling. That to me is crucial. There is a LOT to be said in favor of a person who raises their children well. Even though one must also factor in the extremely competent Scottish nannies the Yorks hired...

On a Today Show interview with Meredith Vieira, Andrew gave all the credit for how well his daughters turned out to their mother.

Which I found very generous and gracious of him.

So that is one very important and positive thing I feel I can say about Andrew.

ETA: I loved Claire's observation that people will forgive a lot when one is young and beautiful as Andrew was. But our culture has become-paradoxically-more lax about moral values and also more judgmental and unforgiving. Especially if you are no longer young and attractive.

Andrew's dashing war heroism is virtually forgotten, even by the people old enough to remember it.

And i also agree that both he and Sarah deteriorated sharply after the end of their marriage. They have drifted from one negative headline to another ever since.
Andrew's behaviour as a young man wasn't that heinous, he was arrogant yes but he wasn't too bad.. and he did have a job and was a useful member of society. He was'nt very popular, all the same but for a year or so, Sarah's arrival into the RF gave her a brief popularity that rubbed off on him.. They were the young lively support act to Charles and Diana.
I think the breakdown of his marriage seemed to bring out the worst in him, and also in Sarah. He still worked reasonably hard and was a good father and was IMO more loyal to Sarah than she relaly deserved.. but his private life was increasingly a selfish one.. He seemed to become greedy for money and his private life seemed to be mostly about enjoying himself in a rather louche manner, pursuing girls, and pursuing money.. from dubious people. I got the impression that as a young man he was quite a frugal type and had the marriage not broken down, I wonder if he would have become content to "stay home and watch golfing videos" and enjoy himself quietly and still be not a big spender.. but the need for Money, as Sarah was always short of it, and he was still trying to help her, grew to a love of making money...
He would still have been a rather selfish arrogant person, but would have been a devoted if rather boring husband and father.
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  #33  
Old 05-18-2020, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Sarah is always very supportive of him....

True, but she has her reasons $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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  #34  
Old 05-18-2020, 12:21 PM
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True, but she has her reasons $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
I agree, her connection to him has been her golden ticket in life, even after the divorce. I don't believe she ever seriously pursued a relationship with anyone else as she likes being the Duchess of York too much.
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  #35  
Old 05-18-2020, 01:02 PM
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And if she had married again, she would have lost the title, wouldn't she?
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  #36  
Old 05-18-2020, 09:07 PM
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From what little I read Andrew is really going to drag Andrew. To me this is the real royal scandal: a prince of the realm who had ties to a dead convicted pedophile and possibly have knowledge of the alleged depravity. The scuzzy reputation of Andrew has tainted House York and the BRF as a whole. The royals got a not so gentle reminder when the Royal Family Instagram gave a birthday wish to Andrew and the post had references to the FBI in the responses. The same when Andrew Sarah Eugenie and Beatrice put up a post for International Family Day. The family will never live this down until Andrew settles this with the Feds.
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  #37  
Old 05-18-2020, 09:34 PM
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Yes the longer this scandal lasts and the more that becomes known about Andrew's activities, the worse it gets for both Andrew's reputation (what's left of it) and that of the BRF. I read an article yesterday that stated 122 people are now on the 'people of high interest' list to security forces as stalking the Royal Family.

It is up from five persons on the list a year ago and was put down by security experts to 'an increasing disregard' for the Royal Family. That certainly involves Andrew and his behaviour, including hiring lawyers and his ignoring inquiries instituted by the FBI. It's certainly not going to get better for him with the publication of this book.
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  #38  
Old 05-18-2020, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sophie25 View Post
I agree, her connection to him has been her golden ticket in life, even after the divorce. I don't believe she ever seriously pursued a relationship with anyone else as she likes being the Duchess of York too much.
I've read otherwise. I think she fell hard for Steve Wyatt..not to mention his bank account. She would have given up the title of Duchess of York with all it's restrictions to live the life of carefree hedonism that I suspect she has always wanted. Wyatt had the money to make such a life possible.

But he dumped her and married someone else.
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  #39  
Old 05-19-2020, 01:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
I've read otherwise. I think she fell hard for Steve Wyatt..not to mention his bank account. She would have given up the title of Duchess of York with all it's restrictions to live the life of carefree hedonism that I suspect she has always wanted. Wyatt had the money to make such a life possible.

But he dumped her and married someone else.
Wyatt didn't have the money. His step-father Oscar Wyatt kept him on a tight leash, and, according to Allan Starkie, a repugnant biographer but nonetheless had to be vetted by teams of lawyers and was allowed to publish, Sarah apparently paid for the decoration of Steve's apartment in Washington DC after he was hounded out of the UK when the baby naked Bea pics came to light. To everyone's credit, they are still friendly and cordial.
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  #40  
Old 05-19-2020, 03:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
From what little I read Andrew is really going to drag Andrew. To me this is the real royal scandal: a prince of the realm who had ties to a dead convicted pedophile and possibly have knowledge of the alleged depravity. The scuzzy reputation of Andrew has tainted House York and the BRF as a whole. The royals got a not so gentle reminder when the Royal Family Instagram gave a birthday wish to Andrew and the post had references to the FBI in the responses. The same when Andrew Sarah Eugenie and Beatrice put up a post for International Family Day. The family will never live this down until Andrew settles this with the Feds.
Agree - Mass media and the internet has resulted in huge popularization. Everyone is now an expert on everything and has very strong views on everything. That is why you have the Meghan debacle as well.
The royal family knows this isn't a moral failing - that can later be swiped under the rug. Everything and everyone in the family has been tainted by it and yes they are even concerned that the Queen herself might be hackled during walkabouts about handing over her pedio son.
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