Prince Andrew:The End of the Monarchy and Epstein

[Sun Lion]

A little more about the forthcoming book -

Sounds as though it is not just the Duke's story, but the "precipitous loss of trust" of the institution of the Monarchy.

I'll be glad if it is indeed a serious book that explores the networks that are involved at these high levels of business and society.

(Hit the "more" button to see the synopsis detail.)


https://books.apple.com/nz/book/prince-andrew/id1507343962

 

[Denville]

The one positive thing I can say about him is that he seems a fiercely devoted father, and his daughters evidently return the feeling. That to me is crucial. There is a LOT to be said in favor of a person who raises their children well. Even though one must also factor in the extremely competent Scottish nannies the Yorks hired...

On a Today Show interview with Meredith Vieira, Andrew gave all the credit for how well his daughters turned out to their mother.

Which I found very generous and gracious of him.

So that is one very important and positive thing I feel I can say about Andrew.

ETA: I loved Claire's observation that people will forgive a lot when one is young and beautiful as Andrew was. But our culture has become-paradoxically-more lax about moral values and also more judgmental and unforgiving. Especially if you are no longer young and attractive.

Andrew's dashing war heroism is virtually forgotten, even by the people old enough to remember it.

And i also agree that both he and Sarah deteriorated sharply after the end of their marriage. They have drifted from one negative headline to another ever since.

Andrew's behaviour as a young man wasn't that heinous, he was arrogant yes but he wasn't too bad.. and he did have a job and was a useful member of society. He was'nt very popular, all the same but for a year or so, Sarah's arrival into the RF gave her a brief popularity that rubbed off on him.. They were the young lively support act to Charles and Diana.
I think the breakdown of his marriage seemed to bring out the worst in him, and also in Sarah. He still worked reasonably hard and was a good father and was IMO more loyal to Sarah than she relaly deserved.. but his private life was increasingly a selfish one.. He seemed to become greedy for money and his private life seemed to be mostly about enjoying himself in a rather louche manner, pursuing girls, and pursuing money.. from dubious people. I got the impression that as a young man he was quite a frugal type and had the marriage not broken down, I wonder if he would have become content to "stay home and watch golfing videos" and enjoy himself quietly and still be not a big spender.. but the need for Money, as Sarah was always short of it, and he was still trying to help her, grew to a love of making money...
He would still have been a rather selfish arrogant person, but would have been a devoted if rather boring husband and father.

 

[Mirabel]

Sarah is always very supportive of him....

True, but she has her reasons $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[sophie25]

True, but she has her reasons $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I agree, her connection to him has been her golden ticket in life, even after the divorce. I don't believe she ever seriously pursued a relationship with anyone else as she likes being the Duchess of York too much.

 

[Biri]

And if she had married again, she would have lost the title, wouldn't she?

 

[Madame Verseau]

From what little I read Andrew is really going to drag Andrew. To me this is the real royal scandal: a prince of the realm who had ties to a dead convicted pedophile and possibly have knowledge of the alleged depravity. The scuzzy reputation of Andrew has tainted House York and the BRF as a whole. The royals got a not so gentle reminder when the Royal Family Instagram gave a birthday wish to Andrew and the post had references to the FBI in the responses. The same when Andrew Sarah Eugenie and Beatrice put up a post for International Family Day. The family will never live this down until Andrew settles this with the Feds.

 

[Curryong]

Yes the longer this scandal lasts and the more that becomes known about Andrew's activities, the worse it gets for both Andrew's reputation (what's left of it) and that of the BRF. I read an article yesterday that stated 122 people are now on the 'people of high interest' list to security forces as stalking the Royal Family.

It is up from five persons on the list a year ago and was put down by security experts to 'an increasing disregard' for the Royal Family. That certainly involves Andrew and his behaviour, including hiring lawyers and his ignoring inquiries instituted by the FBI. It's certainly not going to get better for him with the publication of this book.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

I agree, her connection to him has been her golden ticket in life, even after the divorce. I don't believe she ever seriously pursued a relationship with anyone else as she likes being the Duchess of York too much.

I've read otherwise. I think she fell hard for Steve Wyatt..not to mention his bank account. She would have given up the title of Duchess of York with all it's restrictions to live the life of carefree hedonism that I suspect she has always wanted. Wyatt had the money to make such a life possible.

But he dumped her and married someone else.

 

[Leopoldine]

I've read otherwise. I think she fell hard for Steve Wyatt..not to mention his bank account. She would have given up the title of Duchess of York with all it's restrictions to live the life of carefree hedonism that I suspect she has always wanted. Wyatt had the money to make such a life possible.

But he dumped her and married someone else.

Wyatt didn't have the money. His step-father Oscar Wyatt kept him on a tight leash, and, according to Allan Starkie, a repugnant biographer but nonetheless had to be vetted by teams of lawyers and was allowed to publish, Sarah apparently paid for the decoration of Steve's apartment in Washington DC after he was hounded out of the UK when the baby naked Bea pics came to light. To everyone's credit, they are still friendly and cordial.

 

[Claire]

From what little I read Andrew is really going to drag Andrew. To me this is the real royal scandal: a prince of the realm who had ties to a dead convicted pedophile and possibly have knowledge of the alleged depravity. The scuzzy reputation of Andrew has tainted House York and the BRF as a whole. The royals got a not so gentle reminder when the Royal Family Instagram gave a birthday wish to Andrew and the post had references to the FBI in the responses. The same when Andrew Sarah Eugenie and Beatrice put up a post for International Family Day. The family will never live this down until Andrew settles this with the Feds.

Agree - Mass media and the internet has resulted in huge popularization. Everyone is now an expert on everything and has very strong views on everything. That is why you have the Meghan debacle as well.
The royal family knows this isn't a moral failing - that can later be swiped under the rug. Everything and everyone in the family has been tainted by it and yes they are even concerned that the Queen herself might be hackled during walkabouts about handing over her pedio son.

 

[Osipi]

To me, Sarah always has been an impetuous and impulsive type of person that'll leap without looking or thinking and more of an instant gratification type of person that, more often or not, landed her in hot water. Andrew comes across as arrogant and entitled and tends to act as if things are due him and that he's "better" than others and perhaps feels that things can't go wrong for him. They possibly feed off each other. Sarah gushes over Andrew and Andrew "looks out" for Sarah. Neither one of them grew to be mature, responsible adults.

They've both learned otherwise and that there is a "real world" out there where they'll fail and fall just like anyone else that don't act like responsible, human adults. I don't feel its a reflection on the BRF as a whole but that's just me. The sins of the son aren't the fault of his family although there may be a point in the theory that Andrew was raised spoiled and catered to.

 

[Denville]

To me, Sarah always has been an impetuous and impulsive type of person that'll leap without looking or thinking and more of an instant gratification type of person that, more often or not, landed her in hot water. Andrew comes across as arrogant and entitled and tends to act as if things are due him and that he's "better" than others and perhaps feels that things can't go wrong for him. They possibly feed off each other. Sarah gushes over Andrew and Andrew "looks out" for Sarah. Neither one of them grew to be mature, responsible adults.

They've both learned otherwise and that there is a "real world" out there where they'll fail and fall just like anyone else that don't act like responsible, human adults. I don't feel its a reflection on the BRF as a whole but that's just me. The sins of the son aren't the fault of his family although there may be a point in the theory that Andrew was raised spoiled and catered to.

I think that yes Andrew was born a selfish type of person and would never be all that great, because it is his natural inclination to be bumptious and arrogant. But I think the queen did spoil him and of course his positon as a Prince gave him even more of a feeling that he was special and would always get the best and would always be looked after.. and that other people didn't matter nearly as much as he did.
Of course Royals do tend to be treated as special but more responsible royal parents try to make sure that they get a corrective training.. Strict nannies, schools etc.
But Andrew seems to have gone on being a spoiled brat most of his life. But I think that the failure of his marriage really fixed him in that mindset that he is just out for himself. Sarah let him down, and I think he did love her.. Now she does "act adoring" to him.. which I think is genuine in that she realises that throwing away her marriage was a bad mistake... and thtat Andrew in spite of his faults has always been good to her and no other man will go on helping her the way he does....
I think he is still loyal to her but unfortunately that has made him more greedy for money, both for himself and for her..so he basically thinks mainly of hanging round with people who can do dodgy deals that make money for him..and if they also supply him iwht women, that's all to the good.

 

[Denville]

Wyatt didn't have the money. His step-father Oscar Wyatt kept him on a tight leash, and, according to Allan Starkie, a repugnant biographer but nonetheless had to be vetted by teams of lawyers and was allowed to publish, Sarah apparently paid for the decoration of Steve's apartment in Washington DC after he was hounded out of the UK when the baby naked Bea pics came to light. To everyone's credit, they are still friendly and cordial.

I think she was keen on Wyatt though, and if he had had his own money, rather than just a rich stepfather, and he'd been willing, she might have taken him. She did I think hope when she and Andrew divorced, hope that she'd meet someone who was rich but not tied to the duties and restrictions of royal life.. But there weren't that many men who were that rich, who wanted to marry her. Im sure there were plenty who were up for a quick fling but Andrew was the only one who was loyal and he had moved on as a romantic partner.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

I think she would have married Steve even though Lynn and Oscar were subsidizing him. He seemed her type...shallow, non introspective, out for a good time.

Sarah might have believed that having the fairy dust of a former Royal duchess who whose children had the Queen of England for a grandmother in the family would have loosened the Wyatt purse strings and given her the wealthy carefree life she had always wanted.

She was reportedly heartbroken when Steven Wyatt got married.

 

[Lori138]

And Andrew is also 'involved' with another pedophile under investigation by the FBI and Canadian police forces - Peter Nygard (a Canadian multi-millionaire clothing manufacturer). Apparently he, Sarah and the Princesses have stayed at his Bahamas estate where a lot of the 'partying' went on. It is also probable that Andrew stayed there without his family as well.

 

[sophie25]

I think by the time Sarah hit her mid 40's she had decided it was far better to seriously hitch her wagon to Andrew again with hope of an eventual remarraige. I have to admit that I sensed she was getting close to it and of getting back into the family fold in the period between Prince Harry and Lady Gabriella's weddings. She was received well by the crowds at Harry's; obviously had a starring role at Eugenie's and then turned up with Andrew and Beatrice as a family unit at Gabriella's. I think a lot of people thought then it was a matter of time before she and Andrew officially got back together and I think Sarah would have loved to have been part of the RF again. Unfortunately for her Andrew's fall from grace has now precluded, if not remarraige, then certainly Sarah ever returning to royal life as it has for Andrew himself.

 

[Eskimo]

I think she was keen on Wyatt though, and if he had had his own money, rather than just a rich stepfather, and he'd been willing, she might have taken him. She did I think hope when she and Andrew divorced, hope that she'd meet someone who was rich but not tied to the duties and restrictions of royal life.. But there weren't that many men who were that rich, who wanted to marry her. Im sure there were plenty who were up for a quick fling but Andrew was the only one who was loyal and he had moved on as a romantic partner.

Sarah would have lost the Duchess of York style if she had remarried-but I believe that she would have gladly done so if someone who could financially support her would have been willing to do so.

At the end of the day, anyone that she found attractive ($$$$$$$$$$$) was not willing to take her down the altar. Heck, even Diana seemed to be unable to do better than a Dodi Fayed. It seems that ex-royal wives are too much trouble to take on for most suitable ($$$$) men.

As far as Andrew, I can see him voluntarily going into exile (a country with no extradition treaties) but I doubt it will have any significant negative consequences for the BRF in the long run. HM, Charles, The Cambridge's have all gotten very positive press for the way they have supported the UK in this pandemic.

 

[Denville]

Sarah would have lost the Duchess of York style if she had remarried-but I believe that she would have gladly done so if someone who could financially support her would have been willing to do so.

At the end of the day, anyone that she found attractive ($$$$$$$$$$$) was not willing to take her down the altar. Heck, even Diana seemed to be unable to do better than a Dodi Fayed. It seems that ex-royal wives are too much trouble to take on for most suitable ($$$$) men.

As far as Andrew, I can see him voluntarily going into exile (a country with no extradition treaties) but I doubt it will have any significant negative consequences for the BRF in the long run. HM, Charles, The Cambridge's have all gotten very positive press for the way they have supported the UK in this pandemic.

H'es not going into exile. He has a home here, he has family, he has the protection of his royal status. he's never likely to work again, but he is better off in the UK

 

[Moonmaiden23]

I agree. He will not be forced into exile, nor should he be.

 

[Mirabel]

But Andrew seems to have gone on being a spoiled brat most of his life. But I think that the failure of his marriage really fixed him in that mindset that he is just out for himself. Sarah let him down, and I think he did love her.. Now she does "act adoring" to him.. which I think is genuine in that she realises that throwing away her marriage was a bad mistake... and thtat Andrew in spite of his faults has always been good to her and no other man will go on helping her the way he does....
I think he is still loyal to her but unfortunately that has made him more greedy for money, both for himself and for her..so he basically thinks mainly of hanging round with people who can do dodgy deals that make money for him..and if they also supply him iwht women, that's all to the good.

I agree.
If only Andrew had married a different woman, or if he'd remarried after his divorce, he'd have been fine. He'd have his clubs, his golf, his patronages...
it might seem a boring existence to us, but I believe he'd have been content.

But Fergie kept clinging, and he was too weak to abandon her...so, the constant grubbing for money.

 

[Leopoldine]

If he had married well, he would have an entirely different life. Esteemed, respected, not having to suck up to dodgy figures for Fergie bail-out money, perhaps even attaining the rank of Sea Lord. A good wife could have tamped down his arrogance and impulsiveness. A good wife may have been enough of a reason to not undertake a totally ludicrous UK Trade Representative role. She would have pointed out that Royal military veterans who live on the public's dime should stay home and help fellow countrymen and women in need, especially ex servicemen and women.

 

[amaryllus]

Like attracts like. Andrew wanted the Fun frivolous heedless girl and she wanted him. Can you see a Sophie Rhys Jones or Mary Donaldson Thinking ole Randy Andy is a great prize? Or Andrew being attracted to them?

Good Values and judgment and ethics are what attract and Hold the spouses that will help you Not hinder you in life

 

[sophie25]

If he had married well, he would have an entirely different life. Esteemed, respected, not having to suck up to dodgy figures for Fergie bail-out money, perhaps even attaining the rank of Sea Lord. A good wife could have tamped down his arrogance and impulsiveness. A good wife may have been enough of a reason to not undertake a totally ludicrous UK Trade Representative role. She would have pointed out that Royal military veterans who live on the public's dime should stay home and help fellow countrymen and women in need, especially ex servicemen and women.

I agree. Apparently Edward could be a bit on the arrogant side too when he was younger though not in the same league as Andrew as he's a bit more quiet and sensitive like Charles. Since he married Sophie though you generally hear how charming and well mannered he is but I also agree that someone like Sophie would have had nothing in common with Andrew and he her.

 

[Denville]

Like attracts like. Andrew wanted the Fun frivolous heedless girl and she wanted him. Can you see a Sophie Rhys Jones or Mary Donaldson Thinking ole Randy Andy is a great prize? Or Andrew being attracted to them?

Good Values and judgment and ethics are what attract and Hold the spouses that will help you Not hinder you in life

That's partly true. I think they were genuinely in love.. but they didn't get on that well as a couple. THey didn't have that many interests in common, though Fergie did try to learn about his work etc... but she got bored with him being a stay at home golfing enthusiast..
She liked lively partying and I think that marriage to a royal went to her head and she became even sillier and more selfish than she was already. She was not very well off and she had access to more money... and even more, to rich friends who would lend her money.
I think that while Andrew still cares for her and they have a friendly relationship, he was hurt by her affairs and her rejection of him and he'd never want to remarry her...But their stayng together as friends hasn't been good for either of them.. they have both become very greedy for money and a pleasurable luxurious lifestyle .

 

[amaryllus]

How these two characters managed to raise such dutiful lovely natured daughters is a mystery for the ages.

 

[Lilyflo]

How these two characters managed to raise such dutiful lovely natured daughters is a mystery for the ages.

I think they spent a lot of time with nannies and away at good boarding schools. If you aren't with your parents a great deal, it's easier to experience the best of them & be spared the worst.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Beatrice's ex...Dave Clark, was rumored to have bailed Sarah out financially on more than one occasion. That might be one reason why she was so fond of him.

I wonder if the equally well-heeled Edoardo is prepared to do the same for his future in-laws? I get the feeling that the answer is NO.

 

[Eskimo]

Beatrice's ex...Dave Clark, was rumored to have bailed Sarah out financially on more than one occasion. That might be one reason why she was so fond of him.

I wonder if the equally well-heeled Edoardo is prepared to do the same for his future in-laws? I get the feeling that the answer is NO.

I don’t buy it only because it probably costs millions to bail out Fergie and I don’t see Dave or even Eduardo having access to that kind of spare change

 

[Osipi]

This is yet another area of the York family where we'll never know what has gone down financially within the family as its their private business. its not preposterous though to look at what we do know and come up with an opinion that anyone and everyone that is remotely close to Sarah has, at one time or another, bailed her out financially.

If there's an area where Sarah is good at getting into , its her financial dealings.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

I don’t buy it only because it probably costs millions to bail out Fergie and I don’t see Dave or even Eduardo having access to that kind of spare change

I didn't mean to imply that Dave's financial assistance amounted to millions at a time. I am sure it did not. But I have no problems believing that he occasionally gave her $$ when she was in a pinch. She would have definitely not have had a problem accepting it.

It would not have necessarily always costed millions to bail her out.