Finding Freedom: Harry and Meghan and the Making of A Modern Royal Family

[poppy7]

Also I forgot, Omid had appalling fact checking.

Diana died in 96. Tiggy left 97. Hard to take it seriously with those mistakes

 

[Duchess_Watcher]

She felt Andrew ignored her? Did he or did she perceive it that way? They look even worse, it would have been better to just say yes we spoke to Omid. Everyone knows they did or did through a 3rd party. They just look like liars.

 

[Duchess_Watcher]

I do think Prince Harry will be back[.......] I just don't think they are actually that compatible at all.

 

[duchessrachel]

The short answer is no to both questions. If you are interested in an explanation, please ask me for one here: General Questions & Random Facts about the British Royal Family.

Thanks. I will check it out.

 

[Heavs]

Well it really was crass considering that the British 'grockles' anyway have been keeping his family going for decades via their taxes, mine included.

True but some of my family on the Isle of Wight are moaning both that the "grockles" aren't coming *and* that they are right now. The island depends on tourism, and they never talk about tourists using any other expression. It seems a lot of people who need tourists and taxpayers take pleasure in being ever so slightly disdainful about them, go figure.

It wouldn't be surprising that some of them might have been snobby or snarky about her or possibly ignored her at family events, hell it happens in non royal families all the time. That's quite rude and I don't blame her for being annoyed about it. However for me it also gets lumped in with the "that's it?" complaints. That's part of why you quit the way you did? I'm sure there were a lot of eyebrows raised about Kate and her coal mining ancestry and flight attendant self made parents at one point.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

I remember a story about Princess Anne being downright rude to Lady Diana during the Diana/Charles courtship/engagement.Diana fled the room in tears( of course).

Diana was 19 years old when this happened...NINETEEN. She had no college education. She had no established career or sophisticated and famous friends to advise her. And she sensed that the object of her infatuation was only lukewarm at best. Yet she hung in there and as she explained it in the Morton book..."I decided to swim rather than sink".

Let all of that sink in first before deciding whether late 30- something, worldly and accomplished adored-by-Harry Meghan Markle was justified in sulking that she felt snubbed by Prince Andrew (if she did).

 

[Alison H]

I'm sure there were a lot of eyebrows raised about Kate and her coal mining ancestry and flight attendant self made parents at one point.

I don't know how true it was, but there was always a story that some of William's friends would say "doors to manual" (i.e. as flight attendants do) whenever Carol or Michael were near. And I'm sure comments were passed about Zara marrying a rugby player, and about Sophie's PR business, and plenty of other issues. They got over it, or ignored it.


I don't know exactly what Prince Andrew's supposed to have done or not done, but was he supposed to spend the whole evening talking to her? He probably just said hello and then went off to talk to someone else. That's not really a snub.

 

[Helen.CH]

True but some of my family on the Isle of Wight are moaning both that the "grockles" aren't coming *and* that they are right now. The island depends on tourism, and they never talk about tourists using any other expression. It seems a lot of people who need tourists and taxpayers take pleasure in being ever so slightly disdainful about them, go figure.

It wouldn't be surprising that some of them might have been snobby or snarky about her or possibly ignored her at family events, hell it happens in non royal families all the time. That's quite rude and I don't blame her for being annoyed about it. However for me it also gets lumped in with the "that's it?" complaints. That's part of why you quit the way you did? I'm sure there were a lot of eyebrows raised about Kate and her coal mining ancestry and flight attendant self made parents at one point.

exactly.
hoepefully the younger generation does better. except harry and his scandals the other grandchildren lived quite normal and scandalfree as far as I know. it is even more strange the way H. complains. I always felt W&H or B&E had gone through quite a lot with parents giving tampongates or toesucked mothers m
but Harry is now the only one to produce stuff his child/or future plural will be embarrassed of and things are now even worse as the www does not forget, cameras are everywhere aso. their behaviour, the book and what else is to come will one day be asked by his offsprings.
william has learned from the past and does things differently, H. just lives on without caring about consequences but pretending he does, it's ridiculous.

 

[tommy100]

Wouldn't you think Meghan would almost want to be snubbed by Andrew, I don't see the reason for the offence given whats happened to Andrew and his reputation since. Taking that out of it, it was at Christmas at Sandringham with the rest of the royal family so 20+ people, it wasn't like it was a small lunch with just the three of them.

I do find the book is full of relatively trivial issues, perceived slights etc. I haven't read anything yet that sounds so bad it would make you think of leaving your family firm. Without getting into it too much I do feel that this is almost like a laterly made up justification for their desire to leave and have it not look like it was entirely their choice and that they were "forced out". There is a lot of "no one spoke to them", "no one tried hard enough" etc, but equally it never really seems that H&M wet out of their way. Rather than ask to leave I think they could have asked for a rethink of their role, asking almost of the "summit" they got and asking for a different route and more certainty over their role and future. I just feel like they wanted to leave anyway and have found issues and reasons to fit the narrative that supports them doing so.

 

[Helen.CH]

maybe the key to it all is: the family meghan never had.
a much nicer idea if the RF was simply too functional, loving and caring for Meghan who comes from a dysfunctional one or at least her bonds did not exist. maybe Meghan did not cope with all the attention, love and caring
related to Muhler's "the devil's advocate" this is my last suggestion for today and a nice one, IMO. Good night

 

[duchessrachel]

I roll my eyes whenever I see the “well hey, the BRF isn’t perfect....” because..who cares? No one ever said they were perfect; that isn’t relevant, and it’s a poor defense of the Sussexes. Meghan and Harry have behaved badly. As far as I’m concerned, the BRF tried their best to make those two happy, but it was an impossible task. I don’t ascribe to the “there must be a middle ground here”; for me, this mess is primarily on H and M.

I totally agree. What Meghan and Harry failed to understand is that their job as working royals was not to promote their own "woke" agenda but to carry out duties on behalf of Her Majesty the Queen. Also, they were to function within the established hierarchy. It's not about them. It's about the Queen and the UK- not about working out the world's problems. They Monarchy is supposed to be a unifying force within the UK. H&M have only caused division. That Harry does not understand the function of the Royal Family is baffling to me given that he was born into it. I am an American and I believe I understand it better than him.

 

[Denville]

i DOUBT if the RF was either rude to her or all gushy over her in the way that Harry described it. But H can't have it both ways. First he was saying that they were all adoring her, that they were the family she never had.. then its all" William was a snob and told Harry to be careful".. and "Some royal called her a showgirl" (I can guess who)...
I suspect they were polite enough overall but soem were indifferent..
And as they got to know her, I suspect some began to dislike her...

 

[poppy7]

i DOUBT if the RF was either rude to her or all gushy over her in the way that Harry described it. But H can't have it both ways. First he was saying that they were all adoring her, that they were the family she never had.. then its all" William was a snob and told Harry to be careful".. and "Some royal called her a showgirl" (I can guess who)...
I suspect they were polite enough overall but soem were indifferent..
And as they got to know her, I suspect some began to dislike her...

Well going on the book and how she essentially presents herself I cannot see any of Anne's family even having time for her. Andrew caring...ever anyway. Beatrice and Eugenie maybe would have been the target but after the wedding announcement, I can see them giving her a wide space. Why would Edward and Sophie care anyway...different generation. And we know William and Kate were a no no.

Showgirl 100 percent Phil. And if not him Anne. And it would be their humour.

She is too fake for any of them to take to her. And that is her own description of herself in the book.

I forgot in the book she felt the moor brooch was a personal attack against her. No sweetie you are not the centre of Princess Michael's world, and seeing her own son married an actress, she made an unfortunate fashion choice.

I just see the entire family being very uninterested in Meghan and anything Meghan had to say or was interested in. They like the outdoors and horses and live rather boring lives. Dogs would be a link.

 

[evolvingdoors]

True but some of my family on the Isle of Wight are moaning both that the "grockles" aren't coming *and* that they are right now. The island depends on tourism, and they never talk about tourists using any other expression. It seems a lot of people who need tourists and taxpayers take pleasure in being ever so slightly disdainful about them, go figure.

It wouldn't be surprising that some of them might have been snobby or snarky about her or possibly ignored her at family events, hell it happens in non royal families all the time. That's quite rude and I don't blame her for being annoyed about it. However for me it also gets lumped in with the "that's it?" complaints. That's part of why you quit the way you did? I'm sure there were a lot of eyebrows raised about Kate and her coal mining ancestry and flight attendant self made parents at one point.

To me that’s quite interesting for Meghan to feel slight over, since she has essentially seems to ignore her entire family, except her mom, even exists for nearly 20 year now.

 

[duchessrachel]

FWIW...no one in the BRF is alleged to have called Meghan a showgirl. It was said to have been a courtier who referred to her as "Harry's showgirl" and another who suggested that she was untrustworthy.

Other than the ridiculous (imo) Princess Michael, everything I have read points to the family from HMQ and the PoW bending over backwards to welcome Harry's beloved. If they didn't bend far enough to suit Harry that is for another topic.

The tabloids and online comments were mean
So what? Meghan should have asked Sarah how she handled being compared to a horse looks wise and being called lazy and a "bad mum". (Apparently it decimated her already low self esteem).

After William and Kate married in 2011, i saw Beatrice and Eugenie mocked as the Ugly Cinderella Stepsisters in both American AND British tabloids.

Why did Meghan believe she would receive kid glove treatment, if she ever did believe that?

Final question..WHY were Meghan and Harry reading tabloid articles in the first place? Especially when we were assured via her anonymous posse in People magazine that she was tuning out all the "noise" and concentrating on her new life?

And they said in their engagement interview that they didn't read the press

 

[Denville]

To me that’s quite interesting for Meghan to feel slight over, since she has essentially seems to ignore her entire family, except her mom, even exists for nearly 20 year now.

I can't say I blame her re her family. Her siblings are horrible.. and clearly hate her. Her father is unreliable...Apart form her mother I cant see whom she would be close to...

 

[tommy100]

Without going down the rabbit hole too much, the book doesn't really talk all that much about Thomas, I wondered if it would shed light on why they drifted apart but didn't really get much new from it.

I do wonder if Thomas is like he is because of the way Meghan has behaved or if she is the way she is with him because of the way he is (if that makes sense).

 

[Denville]

Without going down the rabbit hole too much, the book doesn't really talk all that much about Thomas, I wondered if it would shed light on why they drifted apart but didn't really get much new from it.

I do wonder if Thomas is like he is because of the way Meghan has behaved or if she is the way she is with him because of the way he is (if that makes sense).

To be fair to Meghan, I thin that he's a difficult odd man. Sounds like he was rather neglectful of his first children, and was very close to Meg for a time.. Then her relationship with him began to unravel. In his defence I think he's not that smart, he does not understand the family she's married into.. and he's in bad health which may make him more difficult.

 

[Denville]

Well going on the book and how she essentially presents herself I cannot see any of Anne's family even having time for her. Andrew caring...ever anyway. Beatrice and Eugenie maybe would have been the target but after the wedding announcement, I can see them giving her a wide space. Why would Edward and Sophie care anyway...different generation. And we know William and Kate were a no no.

Showgirl 100 percent Phil. And if not him Anne. And it would be their humour.

She is too fake for any of them to take to her. And that is her own k.

I would imagine that the RF may think that Megan led a boring life.. acting in some small time show... and if she doesn't like horses and dogs, its possible that they may find THAT Boring... and if she finds that sort of lifestyle boring well it IS the lifestyle that harry and many of the RF enjoy, so... room for a bit of give and take?
But Peter and Zara Phillips were kind to Harry when he was a little boy who had just lost his mother, so I hope that he remembered that about them....
I would guess that maybe it was Philip who called her H's showgirl but he might or might not have meant it as humour.

 

[Mbruno]

She did and DOES have a lot of baggage! So did Diana and Sarah.

Heck...Harry and William have BAGGAGE.

What kind of baggage (in the sense the word was used in the book) did Diana have (other than her parents having had an unhappy marriage)?



Diana was an 18-year virgin who, to use her own words, "grew up in a big house" and was an earl's daughter from an old family of courtiers and aristocrats. I don't think her "baggage" compares to anything that was alleged against Meghan when she started dating Harry.

 

[Denville]

What kind of baggage (in the sense the word was used in the book) did Diana have (other than her parents having had an unhappy marriage)?



Diana was an 18-year virgin who, to use her own words, "grew up in a big house" and was an earl's daughter from an old family of courtiers and aristocrats. I don't think her "baggage" compares to anything that was alleged against Meghan when she started dating Harry.

She referred to herself as having baggage after her separation.. as in believing that a lot of men would be put off by the baggage she had, of being the ex wife of the Prince of Wales... and the Spencers were a stormy family....
Megan had a divorce, and a difficult embarrassing family at least her half brother and sister were hostile to her and difficult.

Its true everyone has SOME kind of baggage. Harry clearly is carrying issues from his mother's death.. William too tho' I think he's managed to get over it better....

 

[Betsypaige]

I totally agree. What Meghan and Harry failed to understand is that their job as working royals was not to promote their own "woke" agenda but to carry out duties on behalf of Her Majesty the Queen. Also, they were to function within the established hierarchy. It's not about them. It's about the Queen and the UK- not about working out the world's problems. They Monarchy is supposed to be a unifying force within the UK. H&M have only caused division. That Harry does not understand the function of the Royal Family is baffling to me given that he was born into it. I am an American and I believe I understand it better than him.

Good points! Well, that's what happens when you're two self-absorbed people who don't know how to be team players. They don't like to be told "no"; they don't like to be told what to do. They just don't want anyone to be "boss" over them - that means HM, that means Charles - as PoW, not as pa - and that means, at some point, William. The fact that they, several times, made announcements (including the one about H and M seeing each other as referenced in the book) that conflicted with Royal engagements speaks volumes. H and M have this need to be the center of attention. I could give other examples, but I won't. I'm not sure Harry doesn't understand it as much as he chafes under it - because he JUST can't deal with the fact that when it comes to "the Firm"/the Institution (not the family, of course), he's relatively low down on the totem pole.

 

[Betsypaige]

To me that’s quite interesting for Meghan to feel slight over, since she has essentially seems to ignore her entire family, except her mom, even exists for nearly 20 year now.

I wasn't sure where to mention this, but since the subject of slights came up.......My parents and I were finished watching Jeopardy, and I always flip it right away to ET because (a) my father can't abide any part of Wheel of Fortune and (b) my mother loves ET. So anyway, they periodically have H and M stuff (Katie Nicholls reports for them), and today they had Omid on. I didn't hear what he said, but I'm guessing it had to do with Meghan feeling slighted by the BRF, because the ET reporter narrating the story spoke about how the BRF gave M the "side eye" when she married H. Let's just say I expressed my frustration vocally in the kitchen, lol. It's clear Omid was going on about M's feeling snubbed or the like.....and I had to escape ASAP before I lost my dinner, lol

 

[camelot23ca]

The first thought that went through my mind when reading about, especially the first nanny, was that someone had an "emotional (and protective) fit" and fired the nanny in a fit of anger.
Because normally it has to very extreme to fire someone on the spot. And doing that only to praise that persons skills afterwards suggest an overreaction.

Booting one nanny on the spot happens. Booting two is unfortunate, but if it happens more often then it says more about the parents than the nannies.
Having said that quite a number of parents are nuts when it comes to their children. I have been elbowed often enough in the ribs by Mrs. Muhler at parent-meetings in the schools to have that fact confirmed...

It is my firm opinion, that while you still have to be the boss, if the work-climate is bad and the turn-over rate of your employees is high then it's almost always down to bad management.
To me this suggest that H&M at best were inexperienced parents, who saw things differently than their experienced nanny and overreacted by firing her - and that something similar happened to the second nanny.

I wonder where they found the first nanny - the one who was apparently fired on the spot?

I think members of royal families have a few options for nannies. They can use family, they can use a highly qualified nanny recommended by family or very close friends or they can use a highly qualified nanny from an agency used to placements with high profile families. So I’ll take it for granted the woman was in one of the latter two categories and also that she would have been thoroughly vetted by their security team before she was able to start the job. Given that, it’s hard to imagine what sort of unprofessional or dangerous thing she would do that would warrant her being let go in the middle of the night. Meghan and Harry may not have liked her much or she could have been a poor fit in general but it’s unlikely the caliber of nanny they would be dealing with would make an egregious mistake in the care of an infant.

 

[camelot23ca]

I think very few people here think the BRF acted or have ever acted perfectly, but back to the book! it shows very little of what horrendous things the RF did (Princess Michael wearing that brooch, Kate not being as warm and welcoming as Meghan "expected" her to be, the Queen not including H&M in her pics at Christmas (along with the rest of her family are all pretty trivial things, Princess Michael is no favourite of the Queen or RF so even though her actions were wrong it doesn't show anything about the rest of the family)

As ever the answer lies somewhere in the middle IMO, both sides failed to understand the other and both sides were left disappointed. This book though is not showing that, according to this book Meghan (and to a lesser extend Harry, not my opinion but if you have read the book you'd agree) can not and did not do anything wrong either. Again, I'd say the answer lies in the middle.

If you’re the new person who’s married into not only a big family, but also a very big, ancient institution that’s bound to the history, politics and general way of life of an entire nation, the onus is you as the newcomer to adapt to the institution and if needed make changes for it, not the other way around.

No doubt the BRF is full of egos and eccentricities and touchy personalities, (but I’d say that’s true of most big extended families), but in the end they are who they are. They’re not likely to make major changes for someone’s new wife. The Royal Family adapts, but does so on its own schedule.

I can think of several instances where individual members of the family made kind gestures towards Meghan when they didn’t have to. Charles walked her down the aisle at the wedding, for heaven’s sake, and he was either genuinely happy to do it or he put on a really good show.

 

[evolvingdoors]

I can't say I blame her re her family. Her siblings are horrible.. and clearly hate her. Her father is unreliable...Apart form her mother I cant see whom she would be close to...

Notice I said “entire family” not “her father side of the family”
We’ve spoken of this already: Meghan has estranged herself from both sides of her family.

 

[Betsypaige]

I love this review so much....read the whole thing..

For what emerges over 24 chapters is a partial and one-sided account, a story of score- settling and swipes at Harry's family, at the institution of monarchy, royal aides and the media.

And those admirable charitable endeavours? They are simply swamped by bitter recriminations.

I fear it will backfire horribly on them, inviting both ridicule and scorn with the only real winners being the authors cashing in on the hype it has created.

There are some truly cringe-making moments: how on their romantic break to the African bush in Botswana Harry was 'delightfully surprised' by his then girlfriend's 'down to earth attitude.' Why so? Because while camping she cleaned her face with baby-wipes and 'happily wandered into the woodlands if she needed a bathroom break'.
.....

Because for a couple so obsessive about their privacy, the book is all the more remarkable because it is, from start to finish, an extraordinary invasion of their own privacy.

At the same time it is laced with a special sense of grievance.

This is a couple who can take offence from the set of someone's face at a public event to refusing to go to a wedding because a newspaper had speculated about Meghan's bottom.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/...sational-new-royals-book-Finding-Freedom.html

 

[tihkon2]

The other side might not be greener but sometimes it’s worth the risk to try.

I know around these parts the BRF are perfect and never said or did anything bad toward Meghan or Harry. Not one rude remark or action ever. Anything bad or confrontational that happened was 100% on her. If she was ever offended it was her imagination. Yada yada.

So frankly it was really for the best they left for the sake of everyone...

I haven't seen anybody say that. So nice straw man.....

 

[duchessrachel]

If you’re the new person who’s married into not only a big family, but also a very big, ancient institution that’s bound to the history, politics and general way of life of an entire nation, the onus is you as the newcomer to adapt to the institution and if needed make changes for it, not the other way around.

No doubt the BRF is full of egos and eccentricities and touchy personalities, (but I’d say that’s true of most big extended families), but in the end they are who they are. They’re not likely to make major changes for someone’s new wife. The Royal Family adapts, but does so on its own schedule.

I can think of several instances where individual members of the family made kind gestures towards Meghan when they didn’t have to. Charles walked her down the aisle at the wedding, for heaven’s sake, and he was either genuinely happy to do it or he put on a really good show.

This, exactly!

 

[tommy100]

I love this review so much....read the whole thing..




https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/...sational-new-royals-book-Finding-Freedom.html

Great review. Careful Betsy, this may be more than 20% of the article and you may get a ticking off...