Finding Freedom: Harry and Meghan and the Making of A Modern Royal Family


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:previous: Harry and Meghan DID live together before "doing anything else". I hardly see why Harry would have taken offense at such advice from a friend.:ermm:

They only lived together after becoming engaged.

I think Tom said exactly what many of us have said at the time of the engagement: you had a long distance relationship, you are part of a way of life foreign to this woman, why not take time to live in the same country, let alone house, for a year or two, before rushing down the aisle. Give everyone, mainly her and you time to adjust.

Maybe take the time to be 100% sure she is the one and that you are not being taken advantage of (okay maybe Tom didn’t say that last bit- not so bluntly perhaps, but I would have)


So this is what number oerson who adviced Harry about taking it slow with Meghan?:whistling:
 
The couple lived together from November 1917 to May 2018, plenty of time to know whether you are compatible together and are on the same page. And on a personal level (I doubt that Skip was thinking of Meghan fitting into the Royal Family when he made the comment (if he did) Harry and Meghan are still together over four years since they first met.

This was all discussed in the Forum at the time and many reasons were put forward, including being different people from the Cambridges (eight years wait)
Meghan's age (both wanting a family) and many agreed that quite a few people marry within two years of meeting and stay together.
 
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ood-friend-doubts-Meghan-new-book-claims.html

Tom 'Skippy' Inskip expressed reservations about Meghan Markle to the Prince. He suggested they should live together before 'doing anything more serious'. Mr Inskip and wife Lara were reportedly 'punished' by being excluded from couple's wedding party at Frogmore House

Assuming this is true - or at least contain a good deal of truth, since Harry's childhood friend was not among the guests at the wedding - it sure is a peculiar way to treat a childhood friend!
If Tom Inskip (and his wife) was left with the impression that not being invited to the wedding was a direct consequence of his advise regarding marrying too soon, then it lends extra credence to the story about Harry falling out with his brother over the same issue.

It is also very disturbing IMO.
Even if you are totally in love I'd say a normal reaction would be to try and convince your brother or friend how totally wonderful your partner is, rather than de facto cutting them off. That's a very dramatic reaction!
Especially since royals don't have that many people they can trust completely.

To me that suggests an obsession with Meghan that is beyond reason, even sanity.
I mean, he has been in love before, right? And yet I do not recall Harry displaying this almost fanatic need to protect his ex's.

It's one thing to be in love, (that's temporary insanity ? which hopefully mature into genuine lifelong love) but obsession is an entirely different issue. If this indeed is the case.
Because what happens when Harry wakes up one day, realizing Meghan is not the center of the universe?
Or alternatively Meghan finds this all-consuming love from her husband is something she feels she can't live up to - or live with?

This book is raising more questions than answers!
 
It seems to me that they have burned their bridges and can't come back. They have become outwardly political and have now spoken out about the family. They may be welcome as family members, always loved and always forgiven, but forget their returning to royal work.

I dont know. I think that they are quite capable if the money earning side of things doesn't work out in the next year, of deciding that they have to go back to the UK
And if Charles were to say to them "If you come back, I'll keep on funding you but you will have to settle down and work and keep within the restrictions of the job, no political statements, no private working for money etc etc" and they would agree to do that. After all, if they find they can't make money in the USA, is Tyler Going to let them have his house indefinitely? They may feel they don't have much choice - that they have to come back and settle into whatever life they are offered here. but I'm not sure they will stick by their side of the bargain.
 
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I dont know. I think that they are quite capable if the money earning side of things doesn't work out in the next year, of deciding that they have to go back to the UK
And if Charles were to say to them "If you come back, I'll keep on funding you but you will have to settle down and work and keep within the restrictions of the job, no political statements, no private working for money etc etc" and they would agree to do that. After all, if they find they can't make money in the USA, is Tyler Going to let them have his house indefinitely? They may feel they don't have much choice - that they have to come back and settle into whatever life they are offered here. but I'm not sure they will stick by their side of the bargain.

I think it may very well come to that. The Sussexes haven't been able to exploit themselves as much on the International speaking circuit as I imagine they thought they would due to the pandemic, and the longer this lasts the less interesting and sought after they become. Their premium will fall, and consequently their income. However, I envisage much public hand-wringing on the Duchess's part if she felt she was being effectively "gagged" in returning to the UK. As a pair they are a liability waiting to happen for the BRF need to be brought back into orbit and control.
 
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I think it may very well come to that. The Sussexes haven't been able to exploit themselves as much on the International speaking circuit as I imagine they thought they would due to the pandemic, and the longer this lasts the less interesting and sought after they become. Their premium will fall, and consequently their income. However, I envisage much public hand-wringing on the Duchess's part if she felt she was being effectively "gagged" in returning to the UK. As a pair they are a liability waiting to happen for the BRF need to be brought back into orbit and control.

Or they could just be cut loose and left to manage their own lives. I suspect that Meghan would come back, and then as you say there would be complaints that she hadn't wanted to and she was a strong woman being "gagged " by her royal role..
I think she is quite capable of doing that, and maybe in the end there would be a divorce and she would return to the US and have another third career as some kind of Fergie Mark 2.
Or possibly Charles might take them back with the provision that they DIDNT work, because he knows he cant control them... that they would be expected to lead a private life, maybe a few charities,
I dont think Meg would like that but I think she'll do what is necessary to keep what she has gained by the marriage.

:previous: Harry and Meghan DID live together before "doing anything else". I hardly see why Harry would have taken offense at such advice from a friend.:ermm:

They didn't. Until they got engaged they were living -one in Canada the other in the UK... Living together isn't necessarily much help but it can at least give people a chance to build a more solid relationship. However, Harry and Meg didn't live together till they were engaged. They had a long distance relationship which I dont think really gave them the best chances to get to know each tother and certainly didn't give Meg a chance to know the UK
And by the time they did live together, they were committed by then.
 
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Or they could just be cut loose and left to manage their own lives. I suspect that Meghan would come back, and then as you say there would be complaints that she hadn't wanted to and she was a strong woman being "gagged " by her royal role..
I think she is quite capable of doing that, and maybe in the end there would be a divorce and she would return to the US and have another third career as some kind of Fergie Mark 2.
Or possibly Charles might take them back with the provision that they DIDNT work, because he knows he cant control them... that they would be expected to lead a private life, maybe a few charities,
I dont think Meg would like that but I think she'll do what is necessary to keep what she has gained by the marriage.

Cutting them loose is incredibly fraught with potential hazards. These are two very loose cannons with a lot of juicy tabloid value. Whatever Megan gained from the marriage she will keep. She will always be the mother of a grandchild of the future King, she will have gained insights to many of the secrets within the Royal establishment and she will always be able to peddle her status as a "royal" or former "royal". She has "made it" an in exceptional fashion. I feel sorry for Prince Harry. He seems to be increasingly isolated in a world that he really doesn't understand, without a role, and completely dependent on doing what his wife wants. There are so many psychological and emotional parallels to what we saw happen to the Duke of Windsor but, at least his Duchess didn't feel she had to have an opinion on everything!
 
Cutting them loose is incredibly fraught with potential hazards. These are two very loose cannons with a lot of juicy tabloid value. Whatever Megan gained from the marriage she will keep. She will always be the mother of a grandchild of the future King, she will have gained insights to many of the secrets within the Royal establishment and she will always be able to peddle her status as a "royal" or former "royal". She has "made it" an in exceptional fashion. I feel sorry for Prince Harry. He seems to be increasingly isolated in a world that he really doesn't understand, without a role, and completely dependent on doing what his wife wants. There are so many psychological and emotional parallels to what we saw happen to the Duke of Windsor but, at least his Duchess didn't feel she had to have an opinion on everything!

I would say that there is a gagging clause that they had to sign up to when they left. They can go political a bit if they want to but I'm sure they are debarred from talking about the RF...
I would say that Charles would be prepared still to give them the allowance that they had, ie around £2M, and if they cant manage on that, or earn more, I suppose they may have to come back.. I dot really think Ch will cut them loose but that's because H is his son.... and I suppose he can use giving them money (whether in the UK or US) to keep them under control. I think that Meg will moan a bit but she'll follow the money...
I think there are parallels with the Windsors indeed...and perhaps with the Yorks. Fergie too felt she couldn't abide by the rules of the RF and she left, believing she could get another rich husband.. but she couldn't. Meg has managed to leave but taking Harry with her.
I agree that perhaps Harry is in the same position as the DOW, that he's left his royal role which was all he knew for a life of exile.. He does seem dominated by Meghan and one wonders if he really wanted things to happen quite like this.. Or myabe he did but will he continue feeling like that for long?
 
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The couple lived together from November 1917 to May 2018, plenty of time to know whether you are compatible together and are on the same page. And on a personal level (I doubt that Skip was thinking of Meghan fitting into the Royal Family when he made the comment (if he did) Harry and Meghan are still together over four years since they first met.


They did not live together before they made a commitment = engagement in November 2017. I think Harry was scared to lose another girlfriend who found out after some time that royal life was not for her. It happened anyway, only with the difference that he did not stay in royal life, either after being told that there is no middle ground in royalty.
 
I think it's perfectly natural for any friend to suggest that a couple at least live on the same continent for a while before planning anything more serious. Whether or not he was concerned about the royal aspect or not. And whilst it's probably never what you want to hear in the honeymoon stages of a relationship, it is important.

Meghan (and Patrick J Adams who was also in a long distance relationship/marriage) told Suits producers in early 2017 that they would not be renewing for S8, a sign that they were already planning a serious commitment. They finished filming in August and if you believe this book there was a secret engagement right after on holiday. Even if it's not true there's a lot of difference between a long distance relationship and the nitty gritty of everyday life together. Especially if marriage comes with a really strange job in an alien culture.

She moved to the UK and 2-3 months later was the public announcement. Barely any time at all to adjust. Then they're off and planning the wedding with her awful relatives butting in every 5 minutes and all the other stress, then the marriage then tours, then baby, more tours then apparently already planning on leaving one way or the other first South Africa, then maybe Canada and now in LA, so many changes in 4 years. It feels exhausting just writing it. I think anyone might be concerned about so many changes.

The time they spent together pre engagement is roughly the same amount of time post marriage they spent as working royals. Maybe they could have figured out that's not what they wanted separately or as a couple without causing quite as much (public) chaos if they'd had more time before hand. Or at least not had quite so many changes so close together over the last few years.
 
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ood-friend-doubts-Meghan-new-book-claims.html

Tom 'Skippy' Inskip expressed reservations about Meghan Markle to the Prince. He suggested they should live together before 'doing anything more serious'. Mr Inskip and wife Lara were reportedly 'punished' by being excluded from couple's wedding party at Frogmore House

Harry’s tendency to cut his friends and family off if they express any concern about his relationship with Meghan is so disturbing. The below section from the article speaks volumes. Harry takes any advice given with the best of intentions personally, as an affront. His friend wasn’t doubting his judgment, but H took it that way. Despite their reconciliation, I don’t know how H maintains relationships with anyone- it seems you can’t talk to him without the threat of being cut off looming overhead.
A source close to Duke and Duchess of Sussex told the book's authors that although his advice 'came from a good place,' Prince Harry 'didn’t totally see it that way', according to the Sunday Telegraph.

'It really hurt him that someone he was so close to would not trust his judgment,' added the source, who is believed to have spoken out with the permission of Harry and Meghan.


Muhler:

To me that suggests an obsession with Meghan that is beyond reason, even sanity.
I mean, he has been in love before, right? And yet I do not recall Harry displaying this almost fanatic need to protect his ex's.

One of the published excerpts was about their first date, and it claimed that Harry was obsessed ...NOT exactly the basis for a healthy relationship.
 
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Cutting them loose is incredibly fraught with potential hazards. These are two very loose cannons with a lot of juicy tabloid value. Whatever Megan gained from the marriage she will keep. She will always be the mother of a grandchild of the future King, she will have gained insights to many of the secrets within the Royal establishment and she will always be able to peddle her status as a "royal" or former "royal". She has "made it" an in exceptional fashion. I feel sorry for Prince Harry. He seems to be increasingly isolated in a world that he really doesn't understand, without a role, and completely dependent on doing what his wife wants. There are so many psychological and emotional parallels to what we saw happen to the Duke of Windsor but, at least his Duchess didn't feel she had to have an opinion on everything!

Brilliant points, and you know Meghan would be the kind to kiss and tell; she absolutely strikes me as someone who would gleefully dish the dirt on the BRF.

I don’t really feel sorry for Harry because he’s brought this all on himself. I will say that I think the old Harry, the good man, is still inside, but he’s completely lost his way. Who IS he? He seems more like Meghan than he does himself. It IS eerily reminiscent of the Duke and Duchess of Windsor, though it seems to me that Meghan plays up to Harry’s need for her more than Wallis did for Edward (who just needed her even when she clearly didn’t need him as much).
 
That is the problem- they have made it clear as day that it is A. Just in the last couple of months they have tried to jump on the "cause du Jour" without much thought and research put into their involvement. Their public pronouncements have been nothing but buzzword salads intended to get them positive PR.

With or without their involvement Finding Freedom was touted as getting their point of view across and from the serialization so far it is nothing more than an attempt to portray them as victims of everyone and anyone who did not agree with what they wanted.

In simple words- everything they do seems hollow with the sole purpose being getting them the media attention that they claim they do not want

I think this is a criticism the royal offices made of them. That they rushed in before researching and figuring out if an organisation was appropriate.
 
Brilliant points, and you know Meghan would be the kind to kiss and tell; she absolutely strikes me as someone who would gleefully dish the dirt on the BRF.

I don’t really feel sorry for Harry because he’s brought this all on himself. I will say that I think the old Harry, the good man, is still inside, but he’s completely lost his way. Who IS he? He seems more like Meghan than he does himself. It IS eerily reminiscent of the Duke and Duchess of Windsor, though it seems to me that Meghan plays up to Harry’s need for her more than Wallis did for Edward (who just needed her even when she clearly didn’t need him as much).

I dont know. I think that if Meg's paid to remain silent, she will. She may complain discreetly, and bits will leak out. She may in the end get fed up and go for a divorce and she'll head back to the US (hopefully times will be better in a few years) and she'll have some kind of business career like Fergie.
I agree that this Harry we see now, is an odd mixture. I think that perhaps ( I never was all that interested in him so only followed him sporadically) the public face of Harry up to a few years ago, the jolly good hearted but not bright guy, wasn't the real H.. who underneath it was sufferings from depression and anger issues...
and I suspect that if that's true, perhaps Harry began to "come out" about his depression and by opening it up, perhaps he's actually made things worse for himself. AND i think the salient point is that he began to look for some woman who could accept him as he was, as the mixed up rather angry unhappy man that he is.. and found Meg. SHE has given him permission to "emote" and talk about the depression and act up a bit...and has persuaded him that h'ell be happier if he "lets it all out" and takes up yoga and adopts a "Californian liberal Democrat" viewpoint on all sorts of issues..
But it just doesn't seem to me to be natural to Harry.. it comes across a bit like he's learned it to please Meg or "he hopes that this new POV and this new more openly emotional way of acting will both please Meg and make him happier..."

and to be honest, I suspect that as he gets older, he may revert to his own "type" esp if he gets a bit fed up with the US
 
:previous: Harry and Meghan DID live together before "doing anything else". I hardly see why Harry would have taken offense at such advice from a friend.:ermm:

Pretty much when they got engaged. I think the advice was meant give the living together a good go first.

The couple lived together from November 1917 to May 2018, plenty of time to know whether you are compatible together and are on the same page. And on a personal level (I doubt that Skip was thinking of Meghan fitting into the Royal Family when he made the comment (if he did) Harry and Meghan are still together over four years since they first met.

This was all discussed in the Forum at the time and many reasons were put forward, including being different people from the Cambridges (eight years wait)
Meghan's age (both wanting a family) and many agreed that quite a few people marry within two years of meeting and stay together.

You cannot be serious about that. That is no time which was comprised of the wedding organisation.
 
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I think it's perfectly natural for any friend to suggest that a couple at least live on the same continent for a while before planning anything more serious. Whether or not he was concerned about the royal aspect or not. And whilst it's probably never what you want to hear in the honeymoon stages of a relationship, it is important.

Meghan (and Patrick J Adams who was also in a long distance relationship/marriage) told Suits producers in early 2017 that they would not be renewing for S8, a sign that they were already planning a serious commitment. They finished filming in August and if you believe this book there was a secret engagement right after on holiday. Even if it's not true there's a lot of difference between a long distance relationship and the nitty gritty of everyday life together. Especially if marriage comes with a really strange job in an alien culture.

She moved to the UK and 2-3 months later was the public announcement. Barely any time at all to adjust. Then they're off and planning the wedding with her awful relatives butting in every 5 minutes and all the other stress, then the marriage then tours, then baby, more tours then apparently already planning on leaving one way or the other first South Africa, then maybe Canada and now in LA, so many changes in 4 years. It feels exhausting just writing it. I think anyone might be concerned about so many changes.

The time they spent together pre engagement is roughly the same amount of time post marriage they spent as working royals. Maybe they could have figured out that's not what they wanted separately or as a couple without causing quite as much (public) chaos if they'd had more time before hand. Or at least not had quite so many changes so close together over the last few years.

Just a handful of corrections:
It is more likely that Patrick have is notice and from there Meghan role became redundant, I didn’t watch suits, but it seems like her character was really nothing but his love interest.
But I think her exit was actually thought of before that, something that the show runners said that made me think they were working on writing her out once her contract ended, which for most shows of that low rating tends to be until season 7.


She moved to the U.K. in late Nov, a week later they announced the engagement.


(And as someone who exprienced so many similar changes in a short time span, moving states, countries, jobs, losing a furbaby... three years in since being back in my home country, i’m only now starting to adjust, and covid has been a huge blessing about that actually!)
 
Harry’s tendency to cut his friends and family off if they express any concern about his relationship with Meghan is so disturbing. The below section from the article speaks volumes. Harry takes any advice given with the best of intentions personally, as an affront. His friend wasn’t doubting his judgment, but H took it that way. Despite their reconciliation, I don’t know how H maintains relationships with anyone- it seems you can’t talk to him without the threat of being cut off looming overhead.

Cutting-off seems to be Meghan's strategy as well; so it might have intensified. While some relationships might end up toxic/not worthy to maintain, the primary response should be to work things out (and as a person you will grow in the process) - cutting off/leaving should only be the ultimate solution if everything else failed. However, if this is quite often the solution someone ends up with, it's probably indicating that that person should work on themselves/harder to prevent that from happening that often.
 
Harry’s tendency to cut his friends and family off if they express any concern about his relationship with Meghan is so disturbing. The below section from the article speaks volumes. Harry takes any advice given with the best of intentions personally, as an affront. His friend wasn’t doubting his judgment, but H took it that way. Despite their reconciliation, I don’t know how H maintains relationships with anyone- it seems you can’t talk to him without the threat of being cut off looming overhead.

Harry hardly seems recognizable any more.
I always viewed him as a lightweight intellectually, yet a happy-go-lucky type who would always enjoy life.

Now I wonder how I could have been so wrong! He seems a mass of issues, angry and opinionated.

I don't want to put it all on Meghan; Harry didn't change overnight, and he is responsible for his own actions.
 
Harry hardly seems recognizable any more.
I always viewed him as a lightweight intellectually, yet a happy-go-lucky type who would always enjoy life.

Now I wonder how I could have been so wrong! He seems a mass of issues, angry and opinionated.

I don't want to put it all on Meghan; Harry didn't change overnight, and he is responsible for his own actions.

I suspect that he always Was a mess underneath.. but i think the ideas he has nowadays are all Meg's...
I thought that (over the years of living here i the UK and being a Diana watcher) i started out with the idea that both H and Will were rather upper class brats, who needed a bit of firm discipline and Charles was too busy or too soft to give it to them as kids. Will gradually grew out of it Harry seemed to be rather worse.. but then he got into the army and it was good for hm. I began to like him, thought he was a good soldier and would stay in the army a long time and do well...
Then a few years ago, I did watch him a bit when he started royal duties and I had the feeling that he was too anxious to be liked.... He seemed to be giving a performance as Harry, sincere in a way but a bit too much of "Look at me, I'm working my socks off, I'm a really good guy, please please, notice me and Like me."
And I am still of that mind.. that he is a bit of a mess under the Jolly Harry façade and he is trying so hard to be relevant, to be liked.. and to keep his wife on side...
I think that now, the performance has elements of "Im a really nice guy, not a bit snobbish, working hard.. AND I am also well up on politics and know how to put the world to rights." (Ie not like those old fossils in London... including my brother)....
 
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Just a handful of corrections:
It is more likely that Patrick have is notice and from there Meghan role became redundant, I didn’t watch suits, but it seems like her character was really nothing but his love interest.
But I think her exit was actually thought of before that, something that the show runners said that made me think they were working on writing her out once her contract ended, which for most shows of that low rating tends to be until season 7.

No, I don't think that is a more likely scenario at all. Meghan's character was more than just his love interest; she was part of the office crew. It could very well be the other way around. Patrick knew that Meghan didn't want to renew and figured it would be the right moment for him to quit as well. Or, another likely one, Patrick and Meghan discussed this with each other (and other actors/producers) and each one agreed that it would be the right moment for both of them to quit - and the producers decided to finally get them married and ensure a happy ending for both of them.

So, all in all, I'm convinced that if either Meghan or Patrick had wanted to continue the producers would have made that work but both of them quitting at the same time was also an option they could work with.
 
Surely, no matter how much you may want to start a family, you would also want to wait and spend as much time as you could together to be 100% sure you are going to be compatible otherwise that family you create will only be broken up. I would suspect Meghan as a divorcee would been aware of this as would Harry having had divorced parents.

I understand 100% that people are different, some people will commit much earlier than others. W&K or example made perfect sense being together so long given the huge commitment not only to each other but their lives and futures marriage entailed.

That said there are three extremely good reasons why H&M perhaps would have been better waiting a little longer:

a) to give Meghan time to get use to living in the UK, find her feet, make friends here of her own etc. Similarly Meghan and Harry could have gone and spent time in LA with her friends and family and Canada so both were 100% familiar with and comfortable with each others lives and countries. A long distance relationship is tricky and is different from living in one country and place together all the time. Visiting a country is not the same as living in it.

b) to give Meghan time to get to know how the RF works. This was IMO one of the things that has caused the most problems for them as a couple, Meghan quite honestly doesn't now how the RF operate both as a family and as a "business" and Harry has distain for it so when she put (even quite honestly) a foot wrong Harry leapt to her defence and proclaimed how out-dated and evil the monarchy is. Allowing her more time to see how it works, what is done and not done etc would have allowed her to understanding it better herself, without so much of Harry's influence and allowed her to make better informed decisions about which things she truly 'didn't like' and would want to do differently, or even decide she didn't want to be part of "official life" at all. That would have been much more acceptable if it had been laid out at the start of their marriage than a year into it. TBH more and more over time I have come to feel Harry has done Meghan wrong in a way by not guiding her better into the RF.

c) to let Harry get to know Meghan's family. There was always quite clearly an odd dynamic at play here, so being together longer would have allowed him to get to know her family, its ups and downs and would have probably helped more in the long run.

None of these are reasons not to marry in the end at all, but quite honestly marrying into the RF is a huge deal and to rush into it is just making your own life harder in the long run (as we have seen tbh). I think Meghan could have been a real breath of fresh air for the RF but Harry had already turned her against in to a degree and by not inducting her probably in its ways and practices just set her up to fail.

I see nothing wrong with the advice given by William and Inskip, heck I would and have said the same to family/friends who seemed to be rushing into marriage. If we hadn't (as a family) by sister would have been off and married at 18 to someone she wasn't truly at all in love with. Now, married with kids of her own she thanks us all for being strict with her and making her see it wasn't the right thing. My point is, family and close friends often do know what is best for you, often that is hard to listen to because all we all know - the truth hurts. To me, the fact William and Inskip both apparently urged a slowing down shows that Harry & Meghan must have been rushing things, I wonder if they were doing so even more behind the scenes than in public (which the secret engagement earlier than we were told would tie in with). William and Inskip have both stuck with Harry through thick and thin and loved him for being him, if they both urged him to slow down does that say more about them or about Harry? IMO the answer is Harry.

Again I am 100% not saying they shouldn't have married, I'm saying I think most things would have turned out better if they had slowed down a bit, taken their time, got to know each others unusual circumstances - Harry being part of the RF, Meghan being a celebrity/actress, both having odd family dynamics, both living in other countries). I think likely they would still have got married, probably even be living in LA now as they are but without he hurt and upset along the way.
 
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I think that it would have been very good if they had found a way of Meg's coming to the UK for a year before they got engaged... It would have meant her leaving her show, though and perhaps she felt she could not do that, but surely, if she had gone to the UK and then come back, she would have still had an acting career? (if she's a passably good actress)...
The issue of having a family was I think a big one.. she was already 38 almost when she had Archie.. and she got pregnant soon... I don't see any way around that.. I suspect she may have felt she had ot start her family soon but it didn't give her long to get into marriage and UK life before she was also having a child.
I think re the issue of Will and friends suggesting they slow down a bit, that was good advice.. However, trouble is, if people don't wat to hear the advice, it can sour relationships. Even if it turns out to be right, Harry didn't want to hear it and it may have upset his relationship with his brother for a long time...
 
I often think Harry looks rather like a hostage when he appears with Meghan, checking with her for approval/permission for what he says. He seems to be completely in thrall to this woman who appears to be so much more intelligent, opinionated and worldly than him. He comes across as quite ridiculous when he parrots her "woke" sentiments as they don't quite ring as sincere, more like transferred values from his wife. He was much more inspiring and authentic when working on what was clearly his passion - the military and Sentebale charities - the kind of things that Royals do so well.
He has veered into dangerous territory for the son and brother of future kings when paraphrasing his wife's sentiments on politics, climate or BLM. Stepping back from Royal life should also entail stepping back from any public role or public pronouncements because no matter what he will always be a Royal and whatever he says or does will reflect on the throne.
 
He is such a second child - feeling that he doesn't measure up and completely unaware of his strong points, at the same time socially adept and in his case, charismatic. He has always been popular because he relates so well to people, but as you say, he looks so so unsure of himself when he is with her. She is a very strong woman and a bit overconfident in my opinion. I've always had a soft spot for him and I just hope he is adjusting well and is happy. Remember, he has said he wished he had an out a long time ago, way before Meghan came on the scene. Well, is escape is very drastic - hardly anything left of his old life. That's why I say that I hope he is adjusting well and is happy.
 
I often think Harry looks rather like a hostage when he appears with Meghan, checking with her for approval/permission for what he says. He seems to be completely in thrall to this woman who appears to be so much more intelligent, opinionated and worldly than him. He comes across as quite ridiculous when he parrots her "woke" sentiments as they don't quite ring as sincere, more like transferred values from his wife. He was much more inspiring and authentic when working on what was clearly his passion - the military and Sentebale charities - the kind of things that Royals do so well.
He has veered into dangerous territory for the son and brother of future kings when paraphrasing his wife's sentiments on politics, climate or BLM. Stepping back from Royal life should also entail stepping back from any public role or public pronouncements because no matter what he will always be a Royal and whatever he says or does will reflect on the throne.
but unless he embarks on some kind of public work, how can he earn his living now? I dont know what to make of his parroting Meg's sentiments.. I agree it tends to sound silly but I admit to being conservative minded at my age So I suppose Im a bit unfair to him when I see him coming up with this "studenty" mindset as I see it.
...I think perhaps H always had a slightly rebellious streak and liked to try to put forward what he thought of as radical sentiments, when younger but it wasn't such a big thing. He mostly went with the speeches and attitudes given to him by his staff.
But now, yes he does come across as having had a tutorial from Meg on "how to be a woke Democrat" and its either the zeal of an elderly convert, or he s trying to please his wife...

He is such a second child - feeling that he doesn't measure up and completely unaware of his strong points, at the same time socially adept and in his case, charismatic. He has always been popular because he relates so well to people, but as you say, he looks so so unsure of himself when he is with her. She is a very strong woman and a bit overconfident in my opinion. I've always had a soft spot for him and I just hope he is adjusting well and is happy. Remember, he has said he wished he had an out a long time ago, way before Meghan came on the scene. Well, is escape is very drastic - hardly anything left of his old life. That's why I say that I hope he is adjusting well and is happy.

but he seems to feel that people dont like him, or at least don't like him and Meg as a couple and that's why they wanted to control putting out their own news so that they minimized criticism from the Press which upsets them. So, well, I don't know..? Does he think that the slightest criticism no matter how fair or well meant, is a sign that people DONT like him and he gets upset by it...?
And truth is that apart from ardent fans I suspect the press and the public ARE more cool or critical about them than they used to be...so in his new life, he's going to get more unkind press, more negativity...
Did he want to get out years ago because he just didn't like the routine, or because he felt he wasn't liked then? Because back a few years ago, I think he was genuinely one of the more popular royals. I think its gonna go downhill from now on. THe Americans may like him or may be indifferent to him.. the British will get more indifferent the longer he spends abroad.
 
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but unless he embarks on some kind of public work, how can he earn his living now? I dont know what to make of his parroting Meg's sentiments.. I agree it tends to sound silly but I admit to being conservative minded at my age...I think perhaps H always had a slightly rebellious streak and liked to try to put forward what he thought of as radical sentiments, when younger but it wasn't such a big thing. He mostly went with the speeches and attitudes given to him by his staff.
But now, yes he does come across as having had a tutorial from Meg on "how to be a woke Democrat" and its either the zeal of an elderly convert, or hes trying to please his wife...
I hope he won't be just adrift for the rest of his life as his great uncle was. I will say that I am also conservative and have no patience for the "woke" movement. In their new life they could be so inspirational and be a positive force if they just don't mire in political stuff. She is brilliant, he is charismatic, and they clearly love each other....so much going for them, but which roads will they take in their new life?
 
I hope he won't be just adrift for the rest of his life as his great uncle was. I will say that I am also conservative and have no patience for the "woke" movement. In their new life they could be so inspirational and be a positive force if they just don't mire in political stuff. She is brilliant, he is charismatic, and they clearly love each other....so much going for them, but which roads will they take in their new life?

But how? I can't see what they can do that is so inspirational frankly.. and I think they have to say a few political things in order to get noticed...
I dont know if H was all that charismatic at best, but even if he was, now I suspect people see him as complaining and whining and talking about things he doesn't understand that well and the charisma will fade...And Meg IMO is far from brilliant.. She may be a bit cleverer and better educated than Harry but she really IMO didn't score very well on even trying to understand the royal life she had married into...
They dont want (IMO anyway_) to become charity workers in a small helpful way, they want to be seen as "philanthropists" who say clever things.. But making speeches IMo doesn't feed the hungry or nurse the sick. I'd think a lot more of them if they did just get on with doing some useful work, even if it was typing in a charity office or cooking meals on wheels...
 
but unless he embarks on some kind of public work, how can he earn his living now? I dont know what to make of his parroting Meg's sentiments.. I agree it tends to sound silly but I admit to being conservative minded at my age So I suppose Im a bit unfair to him when I see him coming up with this "studenty" mindset as I see it.
...I think perhaps H always had a slightly rebellious streak and liked to try to put forward what he thought of as radical sentiments, when younger but it wasn't such a big thing. He mostly went with the speeches and attitudes given to him by his staff.
But now, yes he does come across as having had a tutorial from Meg on "how to be a woke Democrat" and its either the zeal of an elderly convert, or he s trying to please his wife...

I am of their generation so I feel it is fair to comment.

They seem to be on the bandwagon with so many celebrities with the cause du jour, hashtag activism and empty gesturing. In my view Harry should either do what he was born to do and follow his duty to the country and Commonwealth, or if he steps back from public life get a job like his cousins have done and live a private life - the press would soon forget him and he could like he seems to intimate he has always wanted to live.

With the rank he was born with his inherited wealth the posturing and preaching is really grating and not at all edifying.
 
A couple of points: William and Iskip's opinions on Meghan. At the end of the day Harry, by law, had to get the queen's consent to marry her. I'm certain there was a background check was done on Meghan before the consent was given. I don't like her because A, B or C was not enough for a royal thumbs down. Adjustments were to be made and time should have been - royal households giving orders to courtiers to leave negative stories to the press to force Meghan into line was a wrong call. Bad blood in the house of Windsor? Everyone needs to own that.

Meghan's paternal family - let's not forget Meghan has not had contact with some of her family in over a decade. Sam and Jr has gone on record with the press, pre and post wedding, demanding their father should be given financial support because of the "care" and bills he paid. Finding Freedom had exposed Dad getting a percentage of the pre-wedding pap photos; court papers for the lawsuit stated Dad didn't pay 100% of Meghan's college education as claimed in the press. That gave away the game: the Markles see Harry and the BRF as their personal ATM machines and loan officers to support them for the rest of their lives. I would not be surprised if the Sussexes took legal steps to make sure no Markle gets custody of Archie should anything happened to them, and I don't blame them.

Harry's change of views - Harry grew up seeing the the world in one way and with his connection with Meghan he has seen the world from her perspective and the impact it had on their family. Harry is not allowed to change his mind on his own? Or it is easier to say he's controlled by his wife?
 
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but he seems to feel that people dont like him, or at least don't like him and Meg as a couple and that's why they wanted to control putting out their own news so that they minimized criticism from the Press which upsets them. So, well, I don't know..? Does he think that the slightest criticism no matter how fair or well meant, is a sign that people DONT like him and he gets upset by it...?
And truth is that apart from ardent fans I suspect the press and the public ARE more cool or critical about them than they used to be...so in his new life, he's going to get more unkind press, more negativity...
Did he want to get out years ago because he just didn't like the routine, or because he felt he wasn't liked then? Because back a few years ago, I think he was genuinely one of the more popular royals. I think its gonna go downhill from now on. THe Americans may like him or may be indifferent to him.. the British will get more indifferent the longer he spends abroad.

Or he thinks that people don't like his idol. The idol he worships and (almost desperately?) clings on to. Meghan.
You try take the most precious idol a shaman has and ridicule it in front of him. Don't expect a positive response!

Perhaps I too have been entirely wrong about Harry?

I used to see Harry as a bloke. A guy you'd have fun with, share a beer with and dirty stories. And feel happy for when he finally settled down with someone he loved and hopefully had a family of his own.
I have known and know several "Harrys."
A guy with flaws, but also a good heart, a mate you could count on and relate to.

But he sure has changed! More than the "Harrys" I know.

So what is happening?

In no particular order, but just going through my mind:
A) He is having personal issues. And they have become more pronounced than beforehand where he was able to hide it from the public.
We may be seeing some kind of breakdown?

B) We are finally seeing the genuine Harry. The facade is down. This is his true self. A self previously only known to a very few. A very self-centered Harry.
And Meghan is somehow caught up in this whirlwind of events.

C) Harry has seen the light. The light here being Meghan, or perhaps rather an idol, who happens to be a human being named Meghan. Everything positive in this world is personified in Meghan, she is his anchor.
You cannot argue with someone who has seen the light. The world has become binary, it's 0 or 1.
Such an epiphany is not unusual.

D) Meghan is a very skilled and ruthless manipulator, who has managed somehow to manipulate Harry to do her bidding. He has become her slave and she has managed to separate Harry from family and friends in order to control him.

E) Two very self-centered individuals have met and they together have created a distorted view of themselves and the world around them, not to mention their own importance in this surreal world.
They fuel each other. And they cannot accept people who differ from or criticize what H&M are doing, because what they are doing is right and just.
They need people around them who can confirm their worldview and their importance.
This book was supposed to vindicate H&M and in rational eyes it's a PR-disaster!
But if you turn it around and look at the book through completely self-centered eyes, then it makes more sense. It makes perfect sense to cut off your brother and one of your very best friends for slighting you - surely everybody can see that?!?

F) Harry is right. William and Tom Inskip are racist/snobbish. The British press is most unreasonable and borderline racist. The British public (in particular) is wrong and petty.
H&M's requests were reasonable. Their visions and the ideas they wish to promote are right, important and worthy of a global audience.
H&M should not waste their lives, visions and voices on mere national issues, when there are much more important global issues to address.

G) Your suggestion.

- These are the - sad - possibilities that are in my mind at present.
 
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