Finding Freedom: Harry and Meghan and the Making of A Modern Royal Family

[Sun Lion]

Meghan asked Sara Latham to come on board to work for the Sussex Foundation. There were a lot of snarky comments on Social Media when Sara's appointment was announced because she had worked for the Hillary Cinton campaign. Now apparently she's all that's marvellous and so self sacrificing.

Meghan personally chose her and by all accounts they had an excellent relationship, (as PC Samantha Cohen also had with Harry and Meghan.)

In fact it is a compliment to the Sussexes that Sara wanted to work with them in Africa. That hardly gels with what's coming out from the courtiers now about staff and the Sussexes.

It is a compliment to the Sussexes, Curryong.

I don’t know about any anti Ms Latham chatter on Social Media, I basically stick to a quick flip through the Daily Mail.

It really struck me when I saw that snippet up-thread, that the Sussexes had some true-believers supporting them.

To be willing to move to a new life in Africa, a big sign of your belief in who you are working for.

 

[muriel]

Unless there are some real inside details, not just 'she felt anxious' I see no real reason to believe that the Sussexes or their actual friends were sources.

Might details of Harry's last meal with HM be considered "real inside details"?

 

[Sun Lion]

Might details of Harry's last meal with HM be considered "real inside details"?

Face-timing while taking a bath was the big one for me muriel.

That and Harry and Meghan not nibbling their nibbles on their first date.

Who would notice that, the wait staff?

Don’t think so, even if you recognised Prince Harry.

Not reaching for the pretzels, or throwing back a few peanuts, would not be the main thing anyone around them would be noticing.

 

[Denville]

I see what you are saying but to me, there is a difference between getting on with the royal family and loving and caring for them. There are may people who don't get along with certain family members but they still love them. I believe Harry when he said that he would always be there for William. I think that if Charles or the Queen really needed him, he would be there. Also, in my experience, loving spouses care about their in-laws because they don't want the spouse to be hurt.

Um, Harry and Meg chose to walk out on royal life at a time when they are needed. the queen is a very old lady now, Charles is not young and is close to the point where he will be King and will need the support of his sons, esp when his brother has had to be benched. Harry obviously didn't care that much about his father or grandmother.. or he would not have gone esp in such a hissy fit way. And I very much doubt if Meg cares bout the RF. She hasn't been in the family long and it seems pretty likely that while maybe at first she liked them and there was the novelty of royal life so she was prepared to be friendly but before very long, the cultural differences caused tension and rows and she was only too glad to escape. She might have liked some of the family at first but Id say "caring" or "loving" were not words that would apply...
And from Will's demeanour I'd say that he may be the one who feels most hurt and angry at his brothers behaviour...
So obviously Harry isn't really worried if his brother needs him or not.. he has chosen his own freedom and his wifes happiness over what pleases his brother. He may really feel that that is the right thing to do, but it doesn't suggest that he is ready to help his brother when needed.
It looks to me that Will feels let down by Harrys decision to leave, and feels that he and Kate are now left as the sole supports of the monarchy in the younger generation and he feels pressurized and unhappy about it..
Possibly their relationship did begin to have cracks when Will tried to suggest that Harry should go slow.. Will felt that he was trying to help his brother and Harry got annoyed or upset with him. And when he got to know Meghan possibly Will felt that he didn't like her and there was tension.. so it got worse.

 

[Denville]

It will be interesting to see what the book actually says but I assume that the issue is not that Harry didn't want to be a member of the royal family but rather, he wanted a different role. I think I have posted this before, but I believe that they reached a point of no return when Buckingham Palace took control of their media relations. Harry and Meghan wanted to control their own message and he expected William's support and didn't get it.

I really don't know. I find them hard to follow. I begin to think more and more that Harry wasn't really committed to the royal role.. and Meg even less so. Perhaps they undertook it in a spirit of "we'll give it a go but if we're not happy in it, or aren't free to do things the way we want to, we can quit fully or partially.."
I think that when they did decide to leave it was "we'll stay part time" because that would give them security of being royal, the various financial helps like free security adn Frogmore as a base in the UK .. and the rest of their time they'd spend in the US making money...
and possibly they were thinking that if the money making did really well, they would still do a bit of charity work, and work for the queen but the business career would take precedence.
Neither of them seemed to realise that they could not be half in and half out.. and I think that Harry was quite sullen about it.. as well as Meg....

 

[Fem]

Thanks ! I think that’s different than H and M getting their own “court” at Windsor?

Yes - the article is making it seem like William was in favour of the Sussexes having a bigger team around them, not actually going with an independent office at Windsor. But for me, it's a sensible middle between what the Sussexes wanted and working completely with BP's offices. If it's true, it's just making me like William even more, smart thinking on this one!

Face-timing while taking a bath was the big one for me muriel.

That and Harry and Meghan not nibbling their nibbles on their first date.(...)

I completely agree, for me everything is in the details. It's just weird and not something one would think of while writing a book about the Sussexes, because it's actually not important at all in the grand scheme of things.

Harry stated in November 2014 that he wanted to have a full 20 year army career - just as Andrew has served for over 20 years in the navy. No one objected. The army told him he had to do a couple of years of desk duties ... and so he quit. He wanted to do the 'action' type stuff but also get the promotions but that isn't the way the military works. That was well reported at the time ... that the army would even help him use that time to set up Invictus.

Philip didn't like doing desk work but he did he time to get the promotion that took him to command of his ship in Malta. Andrew did his time doing desk duties to get his promotions but that wasn't Harry's way. He expected to get the promotions and get his own way even in the army it seems.

If that's not a pattern of behavior, I don't know what is. He didn't get what he wanted, so he left. And that's a shame, because the army time truly shaped Harry - he could've stayed longer.

I've always liked Harry but damn, his reputation (and people's opinion of him) is taking blow afer blow... And I'm guessing things won't get better after this book comes out.

 

[Denville]

If that's not a pattern of behavior, I don't know what is. He didn't get what he wanted, so he left. And that's a shame, because the army time truly shaped Harry - he could've stayed longer.

I've always liked Harry but damn, his reputation (and people's opinion of him) is taking blow afer blow... And I'm guessing things won't get better after this book comes out.

But yes that' does seem to be Harry. As I've said, its not "Whatever Meghan wants she gets" so much as "Harry and Meghan want things and they expect to get them and if they don't, they walk out...
He didn't want to do a desk job in the army, so he left. He moved into royal duties, and wasn't happy with it nor was his wife.. so they left...
I've felt that he was rather desperately trying, when he started royal duties in the past few years, to "be noticed".. He maybe meant well but to me there was an aura of "notice me notice me. IM working my heart out here, because I want to be seen and loved..."
and I think that he felt that on marriage he and MEg didn't get the press admiration they were hoping for, and they felt that the RF didn't support them and give them the freedom they wanted in their role... so they felt unappreciated and wanted to leave or pull back. Then they were told they couldn't go part time.. and again - they left...

 

[ACO]

It perfectly fits into the 'what Meghan wants, Meghan gets' quote, I can totally believe it.

The same author who coined this also wrote “What William wants, William gets.”

Seems to be Roya’s thing.

 

[ACO]

Might details of Harry's last meal with HM be considered "real inside details"?

This was discussed by a few papers at the time. It was their own exclusives. So honestly how did the papers know via their “royal sources”? So putting it in the book isn’t much of a stretch. It was already out there.

 

[Somebody]

At the polo match they seemed to get on very well in the pics I saw, although the wives didn't seem overly chatty or friendly. It was after that event I first saw any pics suggesting there was a strain (the rumors were out before the polo match). The CWS was the first time it was very obvious there was a strain between them.


LaRae

I believe it was the Easter service weeks before Archie's birth that already indicated that at least the relation between William and Harry was strained.

 

[Denville]

The same author who coined this also wrote “What William wants, William gets.”

Seems to be Roya’s thing.

Its actually from an old musical Damn Yankees, where there's a song "Whatever Lola wants, Lola gets".

 

[Denville]

I believe it was the Easter service weeks before Archie's birth that already indicated that at least the relation between William and Harry was strained.

I dont remember when the polo match was, but as I recall Harry put his arm round William, who didn't respond.. But that might be just William not wanting to be touched when hot and sweaty.. or he might not be a great "hugger in public" guy.
Or it might be Harry uneasily trying to make a friendly gesture to his brother, whom he was uneasy with.... and William feeling the tension between them and not wanting to respond..

 

[ACO]

Its actually from an old musical Damn Yankees, where there's a song "Whatever Lola wants, Lola gets".

I know... that was more me being snarky. They use this with plenty Royals. It’s easy to make a story claiming [insert royal] is oh so demanding. Same writer using same phrasing for multiple royals. It’s just what they do.

 

[Somebody]

I dont remember when the polo match was, but as I recall Harry put his arm round William, who didn't respond.. But that might be just William not wanting to be touched when hot and sweaty.. or he might not be a great "hugger in public" guy.
Or it might be Harry uneasily trying to make a friendly gesture to his brother, whom he was uneasy with.... and William feeling the tension between them and not wanting to respond..

The polo match was a few months later. It was the first (and only - if I'm not mistaken) sighting of Archie in the UK.

 

[Curryong]

The first sighting of Archie was at Wndsor Castle at the photo-op shortly after his birth when he was in his father's arms and asleep. The parents answered several questions and that was the occasion also in which the photo of the Sussexes, Doria and the Queen and Prince Philip was taken of them all looking at the baby, was later released.

 

[ACO]

I think the poster means unofficial sighting. We have only seen Archie a handful of times but mostly him outside the UK. In fact he has lived in North America longer than than the U.K. at this point in his 14 months of life.

 

[Denville]

I know... that was more me being snarky. They use this with plenty Royals. It’s easy to make a story claiming [insert royal] is oh so demanding. Same writer using same phrasing for multiple royals. It’s just what they do.

yes but its Harry who was saying it.. so I assume that he meant by it.. "My Meghan is so wonderful that I intend to see that she gets whatever she wants..."
But truth is that I think both of them are stubborn and willful - and while they don't always get what they want, they stomp out... when thwarted.

 

[Denville]

The polo match was a few months later. It was the first (and only - if I'm not mistaken) sighting of Archie in the UK.

When was that? I'm guessing mid summer, a little while after Archie's birth? I think that its possible by then that Harry and Meg were in the midst of their plans to get out.. and while i don't know why William didn't respond, perhaps he was feeling uneasy with his …brother
I Suspect that William felt more and more sure that things weren't going well and he and Kate were on rather tense terms with H and Meg.. so he didn't feel comfortable with Harry hugging him.
IN fact I did notice in the short amount of time I spent watching the H and Meg wedding, that Kate looked tense and tired. Might have been new motherhood but possibly the increased unease between the 2 couples had started by then...

 

[Somebody]

I think the poster means unofficial sighting. We have only seen Archie a handful of times but mostly him outside the UK. In fact he has lived in North America longer than than the U.K. at this point in his 14 months of life.

Yes, thank you. We've seen pictures of Archie and even short videos but a short interview with one reporter within Windsor castle doesn't count as a sighting for me. If I'm not mistaken this was the one and only moment in which he was seen outside of palace walls in the UK. The only other pictures/videos we've seen out of his private environment was the visit to Desmond Tutu (again, if I'm not mistaken) - and probably some pap shots in Canada? I don't really keep up with those...

When was that? I'm guessing mid summer, a little while after Archie's birth? I think that its possible by then that Harry and Meg were in the midst of their plans to get out.. and while i don't know why William didn't respond, perhaps he was feeling uneasy with his …brother
I Suspect that William felt more and more sure that things weren't going well and he and Kate were on rather tense terms with H and Meg.. so he didn't feel comfortable with Harry hugging him.
IN fact I did notice in the short amount of time I spent watching the H and Meg wedding, that Kate looked tense and tired. Might have been new motherhood but possibly the increased unease between the 2 couples had started by then...

July 10; see for example this article.

The church service at which some distancing between the brothers was already visible was on April 21.

 

[ACO]

yes but its Harry who was saying it.. so I assume that he meant by it.. "My Meghan is so wonderful that I intend to see that she gets whatever she wants..."
But truth is that I think both of them are stubborn and willful - and while they don't always get what they want, they stomp out... when thwarted.

No that’s what they claimed he said. Reminds me of how they claimed Meg demanded neighbors to sign “commandments” only for a neighbor to say he wrote it as a joke. Sources say things. Some could be right. Some very wrong. People tend to believe whatever tickles them depending on their mood and agenda.

 

[Denville]

I believe that she is stubborn and wilful and so is Harry. So its essentially true.

 

[ACO]

I believe that she is stubborn and wilful and so is Harry. So its essentially true.

I don’t disagree. Personally I think they all are which is likely why they clashed. Type A types butting heads. I do suspect William and Meghan never really got along. It happens.

 

[Nico]

I came across this sentence in an article, and i do think it summarizes well all the problematic :

"The Queen and the Royal Family have a sense of Duty, Harry and Meghan have a sense of Injustice"

 

[Betsypaige]

Yes - the article is making it seem like William was in favour of the Sussexes having a bigger team around them, not actually going with an independent office at Windsor. But for me, it's a sensible middle between what the Sussexes wanted and working completely with BP's offices. If it's true, it's just making me like William even more, smart thinking on this one!

I completely agree, for me everything is in the details. It's just weird and not something one would think of while writing a book about the Sussexes, because it's actually not important at all in the grand scheme of things.

If that's not a pattern of behavior, I don't know what is. He didn't get what he wanted, so he left. And that's a shame, because the army time truly shaped Harry - he could've stayed longer.

I've always liked Harry but damn, his reputation (and people's opinion of him) is taking blow afer blow... And I'm guessing things won't get better after this book comes out.

Exactly...I think William is on the same late in many ways with his father and grandmother. Allowing Harry and Meghan to have their own “court” would have been a dangerous precedent...and it would have been a bad idea, period. These two are rogue, they know no boundaries, they want to do their own thing and they don’t respect the rules. The way they exited, and pretty much all of their behavior since, proves that the decision to not allow H and M their own “court” was a wise one.

Sadly, Harry has earned every bit of his poor reputation ...and he’s really inflicting this damage on himself.

 

[Betsypaige]

I came across this sentence in an article, and i do think it summarizes well all the problematic :

"The Queen and the Royal Family have a sense of Duty, Harry and Meghan have a sense of Injustice"

Not a fan...I would change the second part to sense of Entitlement.

 

[tausi]

Generally, I believe William is very cautious on who he decides to trust. He has spoked about this before. I don't blame him. You have to earn his trust, and I imagine that added some tension to the group.

Meghan doing a Vanity Fair cover "Mad about Harry" even before marriage, I don't think that sat well with William. I imagine he likely became even more guarded. I would have been too, if I was in his position.

 

[Denville]

I think that William was worried that H was rushing with the relationship with Megan and just tried to suggest that he slow down. I didn't realise, I must admit how volatile H was.. but I think now that he was very up and down and desperate to find a wife and perhaps Will felt that this might make him too hasty to get married. And when he met Meg, I suspect taht William felt that she might not mean any harm but she wasn't all that well up on royal life and would find it hard to fit in and Harry might get caught in the middle.

 

[Heavs]

What he's alleged to have said is very mild to me. Who wouldn't be concerned about a sibling potentially rushing in to marriage during a long distance relationship where you're both on best behaviour for the short amount of time you spend together? Then add in the insanity of being a potential royal wife and Duchess without knowing much about it. All of which was echoed in the media and here at the time.

It's not like William didn't have personal experience about waiting despite the ever present Men in Grey Suits allegedly trying to organise a wedding the second they left uni.

We all get why they could wait very long but 18 months (possibly only a year if the "secret engagement" is true) and not living in the same country 90% of that time is not long in this situation. And that was partly borne out in the 18 months (1 year if excluding maternity leave and planning time) they gave it before fleeing the country.

 

[acdc1]

Exactly...I think William is on the same late in many ways with his father and grandmother. Allowing Harry and Meghan to have their own “court” would have been a dangerous precedent...and it would have been a bad idea, period. These two are rogue, they know no boundaries, they want to do their own thing and they don’t respect the rules. The way they exited, and pretty much all of their behavior since, proves that the decision to not allow H and M their own “court” was a wise one.

Sadly, Harry has earned every bit of his poor reputation ...and he’s really inflicting this damage on himself.

I do think that giving them their own Court would have been an unwise decision. What do you think they would have done had they be given their own court that would have made it so dangerous? Would it have given them more freedom to do what they wanted with fewer boundaries?

 

[TLLK]

Here is what I am referencing:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...iam-stepped-fight-Harry-Meghan-household.html


Although the headline states that William supported the Sussexes getting their own household, the detail of the article focuses more on William supporting the Sussexes getting a larger budget. This is from a podcast, I will try and locate a link to the podcast to see if that sheds more light.

I also believe that William was very supportive of the Sussexes having their own Instagram account.