Finding Freedom: Harry and Meghan and the Making of A Modern Royal Family

[duchessrachel]

The “suck it up” remark to Her Majesty from her grandson, showing how off the deep end he may go if thwarted and his wishes/demands denied.

I missed reading about this remark to the Queen. Will you elaborate on it?

 

[Lilyflo]

THe RF are hardly likely to say they disliked her or did not welcome her.. but Harry and Meg seemed to ramp up "how happy the RF and indeed the Spencers and the corgis were" with Meghan... So it seems a bit odd that a year or so later, things went so very wrong.. Or that Harry could indicate that William had annoyed him by saying during the courtship that he should not rush things with "that girl".. and also that Will and K were all keen to meet her and get to know her. Both can hardly be true.

I disagree. It can all be true because people can be annoyed about something in June but over it by November. Families can be flaky about a new relationship initially but by the time of an engagement, throw themselves into making the newcomer welcome. Situations and feelings are dynamic and the reportage of snapshots in time can be true while also apparently contradictory.

 

[Denville]

But Harry's the one who was upset. He was apparently angry with his brother for being "snobbish" about his ladyfreind.. so I don't know why he didn't have some kind of argument with him about it...And the style of his talking about Meg and the royals all getting on so well in November 2017 seemed to indicate that he really believed they all loved her. But I would find it hard to believe that (if my brother had been sneering at her a while earlier) he had suddenly grown to love her...
Harry IMO oversold how fond the RF were of Meg when they got engaged.. esp as within a year or less, he seems to have remembered the "sneering" at her, and telling him not to rush the relationship and that now seems to be his abiding memory of his brother..

 

[Lilyflo]

But Harry's the one who was upset. He was apparently angry with his brother for being "snobbish" about his ladyfreind.. so I don't know why he didn't have some kind of argument with him about it...And the style of his talking about Meg and the royals all getting on so well in November 2017 seemed to indicate that he really believed they all loved her. But I would find it hard to believe that (if my brother had been sneering at her a while earlier) he had suddenly grown to love her...
Harry IMO oversold how fond the RF were of Meg when they got engaged.. esp as within a year or less, he seems to have remembered the "sneering" at her, and telling him not to rush the relationship and that now seems to be his abiding memory of his brother..

At which point was William 'sneering' at Meghan? We've heard that he cautioned Harry to take his time to get to know her, which apparently annoyed Harry and caused him to think William was being a snob about it. That's far from 'sneering' at Meghan personally and if William was welcoming once Harry had committed, I don't see any reason at all to disbelieve that.

 

[Grousewood]

Logic doesn’t apply to human emotions. Harry feels like he feels - who knows why? I said in a previous thread that I think Meghan encourages these feelings in him, but I think they were already there. Harry is human; like so many ordinary people, he’s insecure about being loved and valued, and insecurity isn’t easily dealt with. You can’t just snap your fingers and make it vanish; no matter how many times your loved ones reassure you, you don’t believe it.

I see your point completely. I also am remembering that Harry has admitted to emotions and depression and I long ago concluded, as did many others, that he suffers from something akin to PTSD. He is a sensitive person and suffered terribly when his mother was killed. He said his brother understood that he was emotionally ill and convinced him to get help. He got better and thought he was over it all, but then last November he said he realizes that his depression must be managed as it has not gone away. I never thought he had resentment over being second and not first because of things he said about being glad, but you are probably right...he may have had underlying feelings about it for a long time. I truly wish him well, and I hope that someday he will be close to his brother and father again.

 

[wartenberg7]

I'm not so sure if the Sussexes are so irrelevant

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-8564595/Finding-Freedom-Amazon-UKs-No-1-bestseller.html

No. 1 on Amazon UK, no. 14 in the US two weeks before release. The media hit pieces and palace pushback generated sales. The numbers may not have been so high if it weren't for the slamfest. People apparently want to read the whole book and make their own judgment.

Meghan's dad finally weighed in

People like trash like this, especially when it comes to Royalty - we all are best proof ot it!
It´ll be irrelevant at least next year.

 

[Betsypaige]

I see your point completely. I also am remembering that Harry has admitted to emotions and depression and I long ago concluded, as did many others, that he suffers from something akin to PTSD. He is a sensitive person and suffered terribly when his mother was killed. He said his brother understood that he was emotionally ill and convinced him to get help. He got better and thought he was over it all, but then last November he said he realizes that his depression must be managed as it has not gone away. I never thought he had resentment over being second and not first because of things he said about being glad, but you are probably right...he may have had underlying feelings about it for a long time. I truly wish him well, and I hope that someday he will be close to his brother and father again.

Fortunately I don’t have experience with this, but you never get over the death of a parent - I think the best you can do is manage it. William seems to be dealing with it as best as one can - he makes sure he talks about his mum to his kids, makes sure they know all about his grandma. He was young, Harry was even younger ...Maybe he’s taking extreme steps to protect his wife as he thinks she needs protecting as he couldn’t protect his mother....

I think Harry pretty good with Charles, although things could be better if they could just talk one on one ....His relationship with William is a lot more complicated, and that may take real time before it heals.

 

[ladongas]

If everyone is able to put these issues behind them, or to the side, long enough for H&M to visit with the BRF over Christmas, they are all much better people than me.

I just can't see how anyone could manage it. After everything that's happened - the sheer effort it would take to stay calm and polite at the dinner table...

Family ‘fights’ over uglier and more serious issues can be and usually are mended; you’re still related to them even after all is said and done. If the U.K. side of this quarrel is unable to see their way clear to move past this, perhaps they could benefit from some family counseling.

Sophisticated people of means and privilege are not immune to unreasonable feelings. Most of us would never reject our adult children or grandchildren regardless of the reason.

 

[Nico]

I'm not so sure if the Sussexes are so irrelevant

They are becoming world class has been by the minute, very much like the Windsors after WWII, because they are lacking something The BRF and the Cambridges have : gravitas.

To be n°1 on Amazon just shows that, at best, you're a subject of entertainement for the moment, and will be forgotten after the summer when another book about Trump or whatever will be released. I'm afraid that the Sussexes are now reduced, for how long i don't know, as a semi-celebrity status just good enough to be figured on the cover of the usual rags (or websites you seem to cherish so much).

Meanwhile the Cambridges and the BRF, yet the subject of the same gossips , are keeping heads up , carrying engagements and most importantly are showing their RELEVANCE in a World in crisis.

What people will remember from those challenging times ? A working, active, compassionate Royal Family or a mediocre book showing the existential crisis of two insanely privilegied people real tv show style ?

The Cambridges and the BRF are made for History , the Sussexes are made (at least for now) for bad stories.

Clearly they are not playing in the same league.

 

[Marengo]

And on that note lets move back to the topic of this thread, which is the book 'Finding Freedom' which deals with the lives of the Duke and Duchess of Sussex.

Please refrain from elaborating further on Amazon or on possible books on / by the relatives of the American president.

Further OT posts will be deleted.

 

[Alison H]

Meanwhile the Cambridges and the BRF, yet the subject of the same gossips , are keeping heads up , carrying engagements and most importantly are showing their RELEVANCE in a World in crisis.

What people will remember from those challenging times ? A working, active, compassionate Royal Family or a mediocre book showing the existential crisis of two insanely privilegied people real tv show style ?

650,000 people in the UK have sadly lost their jobs since lockdown started. Given the ongoing restrictions, and people being nervous about going out, it's unfortunately inevitable that many more jobs in travel, tourism, hospitality and retail will also be lost. It's not the best of times to be releasing a book about "Finding Freedom" from a life of almost unimaginable luxury.

 

[Betsypaige]

650,000 people in the UK have sadly lost their jobs since lockdown started. Given the ongoing restrictions, and people being nervous about going out, it's unfortunately inevitable that many more jobs in travel, tourism, hospitality and retail will also be lost. It's not the best of times to be releasing a book about "Finding Freedom" from a life of almost unimaginable luxury.

There would ever have been a good time, but this is an especially dreadful time...it’s not just about the UK as Meghan is American. America is not only in the grips of the pandemic, but we have all these other issues dividing the country, on top of a Fascist, racist President.

Nico is right...Harry, Meghan and their lifestyles of the spoiled and kind of famous are irrelevant.

 

[poppy7]

I heard today through an interview with Emily Andrews, who knows Omid well, that the book was planned for last year. But then all that happened and the writers delayed it.

 

[Curryong]

I missed reading about this remark to the Queen. Will you elaborate on it?

The remark which Sun Lion quoted didn't even come from this book but from the book about the Sussexes by Lady Colin Campbell which was released early this month. I borrowed it from friends the day it was published, read it, quoted it on another thread and now it appears on this thread as if it was something that actually occurred!

It involved Harry going into the Queen to ask permission to wed, and being rude to her by immediately snapping that he was going to marry Meghan anyway and if she didn't like it then 'she could suck it up', the expression used. If Harry and his grandmother were alone during this conversation (which was then repeated by an unnamed 'Royal Prince' ) then how Lady C came to know of it is a mystery!

Lady C's book was riven with errors and obviously made-up scenarios, several of which I and others posted, just like her other books, and those posters on the other thread agreed that the scene of Harry and his grandmother she produced was fiction. Now apparently it's fact, and quoted! What was more she was terribly biased, in the other direction, but apparently was believed by Sun Lion.

Just as the pieces from the Times (via the tabloid press) quoted from the Scobie book are apparently regarded as a Sussex autobiography on this thread.

I have pre-ordered 'Finding Freedom' for August 11th. I intend to read it and then hope to come here and post some more that hasn't yet been seen from this particular book. I don't believe myself that you can get a full impression of a book's subject(s) unless you've read a few biographies of the people involved.

 

[poppy7]

The remark which Sun Lion quoted didn't even come from this book but from the book about the Sussexes by Lady Colin Campbell which was released early this month. I borrowed it from friends the day it was published, read it, quoted it on another thread and now it appears on this thread as if it was something that actually occurred!

It involved Harry going into the Queen to ask permission to wed, and being rude to her by immediately snapping that he was going to marry Meghan anyway and if she didn't like it then 'she could suck it up', the expression used. If Harry and his grandmother were alone during this conversation (which was then repeated by an unnamed 'Royal Prince' ) then how Lady C came to know of it is a mystery!

Lady C's book was riven with errors and obviously made-up scenarios, several of which I and others posted, just like her other books, and those posters on the other thread agreed that the scene of Harry and his grandmother she produced was fiction. Now apparently it's fact, and quoted! What was more she was terribly biased, in the other direction, but apparently was believed by Sun Lion.

Just as the pieces from the Times (via the tabloid press) quoted from the Scobie book are apparently regarded as a Sussex autobiography on this thread.

I have pre-ordered 'Finding Freedom' for August 11th. I intend to read it and then hope to come here and post some more that hasn't yet been seen from this particular book. I don't believe myself that you can get a full impression of a book's subject(s) unless you've read a few biographies of the people involved.

Doesn't a biography, or any book, rather depend on who writes it? You trust the source, who will trust the point of view put across.

I don't think anyone would trust a Lady C.

But the other book, with the four of them on the cover, doesn't seem any different from this one. Or indeed anything else. See we have heard seem false. Someone was leaking...heavily. There is nothing in their side that is new.

 

[Curryong]

Seemingly a lot was news to many of the posters on this thread, considering the level of critical posting over the last few days!

Katie Nicholl, who has written about the BRF members for many years, is 'stunned by the level of detail in the book'. (Wonder whether she has read the whole of it!) So some of what has appeared seems new to her too.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...Harry-clearly-felt-muted-wanted-new-book.html

 

[poppy7]

Seemingly a lot was news to many of the posters on this thread, considering the level of critical posting over the last few days!

Katie Nicholl, who has written about the BRF members for many years, is 'stunned by the level of detail in the book'. (Wonder whether she has read the whole of it!) So some of what has appeared seems new to her too.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...Harry-clearly-felt-muted-wanted-new-book.html

It's not. It's that it was confirmed. It never turned out to be true before.

 

[Curryong]

Well, some previous stories that appeared in the media, such as 'Meghan made Kate cry' (tales which constantly appeared in the tabloids after the wedding) during Charlotte's bridesmaid dress fitting, never happened in spite of an incredibly frenzied atmosphere, according to this book. So there was no crying and no incident.

And the immediate denials of BP staff in the Fail that they were never nasty in any way to Meghan in spite of her 'difficult ways', following publication of book extracts? Their behaviour does appear to be confirmed, then!

 

[poppy7]

Well, some previous stories that appeared in the media, such as 'Meghan made Kate cry' (tales which constantly appeared in the tabloids after the wedding) during Charlotte's bridesmaid dress fitting, never happened in spite of an incredibly frenzied atmosphere, according to this book. So there was no crying and no incident.

And the immediate denials of BP staff in the Fail that they were never nasty in any way to Meghan in spite of her 'difficult ways', following publication of book extracts? Their behaviour does appear to be confirmed, then!

IThey never said difficult ways and no one made a statement.

 

[Curryong]

I didn't say that anyone made a statement. Tabloids printed numerous stories after Meghan joined the royals that staff at both BP and KP found her difficult to work for.

After extracts of Finding Freedom were published the tabloids that had published these previous stories of sneers about 'Duchess Difficult' and reports of pushiness and American ways and nicknames for her (leaks of which were printed at the time as coming from these KP/BP staff) went back to their sources in the Palaces and there were denials that the staff had done or said anything demeaning or wrong about Meghan. So someone is lying somewhere!

 

[HighGoalHighDreams]

The remark which Sun Lion quoted didn't even come from this book but from the book about the Sussexes by Lady Colin Campbell which was released early this month. I borrowed it from friends the day it was published, read it, quoted it on another thread and now it appears on this thread as if it was something that actually occurred!

It involved Harry going into the Queen to ask permission to wed, and being rude to her by immediately snapping that he was going to marry Meghan anyway and if she didn't like it then 'she could suck it up', the expression used. If Harry and his grandmother were alone during this conversation (which was then repeated by an unnamed 'Royal Prince' ) then how Lady C came to know of it is a mystery!

Lady C's book was riven with errors and obviously made-up scenarios, several of which I and others posted, just like her other books, and those posters on the other thread agreed that the scene of Harry and his grandmother she produced was fiction. Now apparently it's fact, and quoted! What was more she was terribly biased, in the other direction, but apparently was believed by Sun Lion.

Just as the pieces from the Times (via the tabloid press) quoted from the Scobie book are apparently regarded as a Sussex autobiography on this thread.

I have pre-ordered 'Finding Freedom' for August 11th. I intend to read it and then hope to come here and post some more that hasn't yet been seen from this particular book. I don't believe myself that you can get a full impression of a book's subject(s) unless you've read a few biographies of the people involved.

"Actually, that was something I posted on the thread about Lady C's book, which I borrowed the day it came out. It was an example of how far-fetched the entire thing is, not an anecdote that was meant to be taken seriously. I'm guessing Sun Lion saw it there, and mistook it for something from a credible source."

... Fixed it.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

I don’t think the problem is that Harry doesn’t understand his place in the monarchy. Harry had gotten used to the enhanced autonomy that he had when he and William were operating the foundation and their own press shop. But they were only allowed to operate an independent press office because of William’s status as the future king-not because they were both sons of the POW. While they were partners. I can’t believe that William treated Harry as any less than an equal and Harry wanted that to continue. Unfortunately for Harry, when the foundation broke up, he wasn’t allowed to have his own PR and that has obviously upset both him and Meghan. I think Harry is being a bit petulant but I know it can be hard for anyone to give up independence once they have it. It’s also possible that the palace could have been more sensitive to Harry’s frustration at the lack of authority.

When Charles ascends the throne, Harry will probably receive more freedom than Charles’s siblings. We know that Charles has been reluctant to say no to either of his sons. But even then, I don’t think Harry will ever again have the same autonomy he had during his partnership with William.

It’s also obvious that Harry doesn’t think that William and Kate made the same effort to incorporate Meghan into their trusted circle as he did with Kate. In the past, I think it is clear that Harry and William were the most important people in each other’s lives for a long time. But now, William has Kate and the Middletons. Unfortunately, until he met Meghan, Harry struggled to find similar support. Thankfully, Harry and Kate meshed well which enabled the three of them to form a solid relationship. It also helped that they were neighbors, worked together on the foundation and shared the all-important press office.

When he got married Harry truly expected that they would become the “Fab Four.” We don’t know why that didn’t happen but I don’t buy that it is all Meghan’s fault. William and Kate aren’t perfect. But the truth is most likely that it was no one’s fault. Perhaps William and Kate didn’t work as hard as they could have on the relationship, but Harry is being too insensitive to their feelings. William and Kate are in a different place in their lives than Harry was when William and Kate married. All three were younger, with more energy and time. It’s a lot easier to bring new people in your life when you don’t have three kids.

All that said, Harry and Meghan should never have publicly aired their grievances – and I think it is obvious that even if they did not formally give an interview, they knowingly gave the author access. However, I am confident that the rift will be healed and probably soon. Charles actively collaborated with the Dimbleby book, which was very critical of the Queen and Prince Philip as parents. Similarly, both William and Harry have given interviews that, while not overtly critical of Charles, were interpreted in ways that put Charles in a negative light. The family managed to work through all those issues and even spent holidays together and I believe they will get through this, too.

 

[Frelinghighness]

yes, they are irrelevant, as I said yesterday. Thousands of people who lost jobs who have DISAPPEARED, they can't or anyone else can go back to them. And these two incredibly spoiled, self centered attention seekers thinking people didn't treat them the way they liked. Meanwhile, they let down their family and are shocked! that they are shot by papparazi in their borrowed houses. Duties yes, but the royal life would have offered a lot more protection. I do blame Megan for not realizing the system and thinking she knew better. I give them another year at most.

 

[Betsypaige]

It's not. It's that it was confirmed. It never turned out to be true before.

I’m rolling my eyes at Katie, who I normally like...

I totally disagree with her about this book damaging the monarchy; if anything, it damages Harry and Meghan. What it does is hurt the very real human beings who love Harry...

 

[Sun Lion]

I missed reading about this remark to the Queen. Will you elaborate on it?

I'll put some info about this anecdote in the thread for the "Meghan and Harry: The Real Story" book duchessrachel.

It happened after The Duke of Edinburgh tried to speak with Prince Harry and that backfired, and the Queen intervened, which also backfired.

 

[Curryong]

That is, according to Lady Colin Campbell, those incidents occured.

 

[Betsypaige]

All that said, Harry and Meghan should never have publicly aired their grievances – and I think it is obvious that even if they did not formally give an interview, they knowingly gave the author access. However, I am confident that the rift will be healed and probably soon. Charles actively collaborated with the Dimbleby book, which was very critical of the Queen and Prince Philip as parents. Similarly, both William and Harry have given interviews that, while not overtly critical of Charles, were interpreted in ways that put Charles in a negative light. The family managed to work through all those issues and even spent holidays together and I believe they will get through this, too.

That’s a good point about Charles and his parents. He was wounded by his childhood, and he took those hurt feelings public, which in turn hurt HM and Philip. I don’t know how they eventually reconciled, but they seem to be on really wonderful terms. I have to believe that at some point they sat down and talked, heard each other’s points of view...and very likely just made sure they all knew that they loved each other, which ultimately is the most important thing. That is what is needed now. I think Harry and Charles will be fine, but it will take a lot longer for the brothers to heal their rift (though I’m sure they will.

 

[miss whirley]

e.

All that said, Harry and Meghan should never have publicly aired their grievances – and I think it is obvious that even if they did not formally give an interview, they knowingly gave the author access. However, I am confident that the rift will be healed and probably soon. Charles actively collaborated with the Dimbleby book, which was very critical of the Queen and Prince Philip as parents. Similarly, both William and Harry have given interviews that, while not overtly critical of Charles, were interpreted in ways that put Charles in a negative light. The family managed to work through all those issues and even spent holidays together and I believe they will get through this, too.

I don't know. I always felt William was more like Philip in terms of his ability to forgive people. Even Fergie has admitted that William hasn't spoken to her since before Diana died, very similar to Philip's shunning of Fergie. I remember at his wedding in 2011, when he passed the Spencer section he exchanged greetings with his two aunts but blanked Earl Spencer.

So I wouldn't be surprised if he never spoke to Meghan again. Harry he might eventually have a casual relationship with, never again chummy, but they'll be able to converse when the circumstances bring them in the same room.

Just like Philip avoids Fergie, Harry and William can avoid each other for the most part. Go to Balmoral at different times, which should be easy as Harry seems to prefer vacationing overseas in August instead of Balmoral. Then at Christmas the Sussexes can stay at Sandringham House while the Cambridges are at Anmer. And the rest of the year, Harry will likely be in LA, so very easy to avoid each other there.

 

[Betsypaige]

I don't know. I always felt William was more like Philip in terms of his ability to forgive people. Even Fergie has admitted that William hasn't spoken to her since before Diana died, very similar to Philip's shunning of Fergie. I remember at his wedding in 2011, when he passed the Spencer section he exchanged greetings with his two aunts but blanked Earl Spencer.

So I wouldn't be surprised if he never spoke to Meghan again. Harry he might eventually have a casual relationship with, never again chummy, but they'll be able to converse when the circumstances bring them in the same room.

Just like Philip avoids Fergie, Harry and William can avoid each other for the most part. Go to Balmoral at different times, which should be easy as Harry seems to prefer vacationing overseas in August instead of Balmoral. Then at Christmas the Sussexes can stay at Sandringham House while the Cambridges are at Anmer. And the rest of the year, Harry will likely be in LA, so very easy to avoid each other there.

I think you’re giving up too easily on William and Harry...and, honestly, they shouldn’t ever jump through those kinds of hoops to avoid each other. I realize that many siblings don’t get along and don’t have relationships with each other, but those are extreme cases. Charles is not going to just allow his sons to give up on their brotherhood like that. Of course he can’t force them to ever become close again, but he sure isn’t going to enable their disfunction...Harry will be in LA most of the time, so it won’t really matter.

 

[Helen.CH]

I don't know. I always felt William was more like Philip in terms of his ability to forgive people. Even Fergie has admitted that William hasn't spoken to her since before Diana died, very similar to Philip's shunning of Fergie. I remember at his wedding in 2011, when he passed the Spencer section he exchanged greetings with his two aunts but blanked Earl Spencer.

So I wouldn't be surprised if he never spoke to Meghan again. Harry he might eventually have a casual relationship with, never again chummy, but they'll be able to converse when the circumstances bring them in the same room.

Just like Philip avoids Fergie, Harry and William can avoid each other for the most part. Go to Balmoral at different times, which should be easy as Harry seems to prefer vacationing overseas in August instead of Balmoral. Then at Christmas the Sussexes can stay at Sandringham House while the Cambridges are at Anmer. And the rest of the year, Harry will likely be in LA, so very easy to avoid each other there.

As you say it is your feeling, which is ok. But honestly I can understand everybody who distances to Fergie. She simply can't behave still until now in her sixties and how old was William when she ruined her marriage by having her toes sucked in public? plus the fact she had given this interview saying bad things about Diana, it was only after her death when Fergie realized making herself Diana's best friend again might make money for her. IMO Meghan's permanent search for attention and spotlight is similar to Fergie's way of putting herself back in the spotlight always though Meghan's behaviour has since been better than Fergie's but Meghan is now still married.