Finding Freedom: Harry and Meghan and the Making of A Modern Royal Family

[Mbruno]

Kate sending flowers for her birthday. Nice gesture but Meghan needed advice from another married in on how to deal with the press and support. Kate now only looks like she was out for herself and protecting her position.

Kate is not Meghan's babysitter. The Court has staff who were assigned (by the Queen herself) to coach H&M and, as the DM said, not all of them were grey suits (some were actually "in skirts" so to speak). H&M chose to ignore their advice and call them "vipers" instead.



Meghan probably would have ignored Kate's advice too. She was not looking for coaching, but rather for someone who would tell her what she wanted to hear. At least that is my impression.

 

[miss whirley]

Kate sending flowers for her birthday. Nice gesture but Meghan needed advice from another married in on how to deal with the press and support. Kate now only looks like she was out for herself and protecting her position.

William saw Meghan as Harry's new toy and should be nothing more. Once the queen signed off more work should have been done.

British Media going full tilt protecting the Firm is basically protecting their jobs. The Meghan made Kate cry has been refuted and the fallout with friends has been expanded to class and race indignities. Dad has been exposed for getting paid for Pap gate. The Establishment is mad it got scooped and it is taking it out on Scobie on social media.

The Firm brought some of this spilling onto the streets on itself starting with the courtiers. Listening to full of themselves employees and letting them disrespect an incoming royal who was going to be someone to work for. Any other "Firm" would has fired them for insubordination, but the royals let the inmates (courtiers) run the asylum. The House of Windsor needs to own some of this - and they do. Blaming the Sussexes is not going make this go away. Any action by the Firm will be seen as retaliatory and willingly wanting to harm a 14 month old child.

And yet the retaliators did not care about harming a 7 year-old, a 5 year-old and a 2 year-old. Or a 99 year-old and 94 year-old. Interesting that your compassion only extends to the 1 year-olds of the world. That is unique tunnel vision.

 

[RandyDrx]

Kate sending flowers for her birthday. Nice gesture but Meghan needed advice from another married in on how to deal with the press and support. Kate now only looks like she was out for herself and protecting her position.

William saw Meghan as Harry's new toy and should be nothing more. Once the queen signed off more work should have been done.

British Media going full tilt protecting the Firm is basically protecting their jobs. The Meghan made Kate cry has been refuted and the fallout with friends has been expanded to class and race indignities. Dad has been exposed for getting paid for Pap gate. The Establishment is mad it got scooped and it is taking it out on Scobie on social media.

The Firm brought some of this spilling onto the streets on itself starting with the courtiers. Listening to full of themselves employees and letting them disrespect an incoming royal who was going to be someone to work for. Any other "Firm" would has fired them for insubordination, but the royals let the inmates (courtiers) run the asylum. The House of Windsor needs to own some of this - and they do. Blaming the Sussexes is not going make this go away. Any action by the Firm will be seen as retaliatory and willingly wanting to harm a 14 month old child.

I don't know why are you singling out Kate here, considering she isn't the only married in in the RF.


As for William, his concern was perfectly valid. You can't deny that Harry and Meghan moved way too fast regarding their relationship. They met in mid-2016 and got engaged in late 2017, that is way too fast for an average person let alone a royal, and most of it was long-distance relationship, so it's natural for William to have questions.

 

[Denville]

The excerpts I read were just pointless.


Thing is when Diana's book was brought out everyone supported her. Everyone was 100% on her side. It was onlyninnher last year of life that people began to think there was something more to her and what she was doing.

What people were coming to see Diana as in that last summer. But Diana did have something Harry doesn't. You believed in her and that she cared. And undoubtedly you knew she was a victim of the institution.

I dont quite see Diana as a victims of the institution..but I think she was more loved than Harry, she had some kind of special quality that made people love her.. even if in many ways she was her own worst enemy.
(but I'd disagree that everyone was 100% on Di's side.. a lot of people weren't ).
However I dont believe that Harry is as much loved as his mother was....and also people are more cynical now than they were in 1992...so they are less inclined to sympathise with someone doing a "poor me" book...
Plus Diana had stuck her marriage and royal life out for many years, and was at least at first seen as someone who had been drawn into an unhappy marriage.. Harry and Meg are attacking everyone, it seems and they didn't stick their royal life out even for 2 years...so apart from their ardent fans most people just aren't really taking their side...

 

[poppy7]

I dont quite see Diana as a victims of the institution..but I think she was more loved than Harry, she had some kind of special quality that made people love her.. even if in many ways she was her own worst enemy.
(but I'd disagree that everyone was 100% on Di's side.. a lot of people weren't ).
However I dont believe that Harry is as much loved as his mother was....and also people are more cynical now than they were in 1992...so they are less inclined to sympathise with someone doing a "poor me" book...
Plus Diana had stuck her marriage and royal life out for many years, and was at least at first seen as someone who had been drawn into an unhappy marriage.. Harry and Meg are attacking everyone, it seems and they didn't stick their royal life out even for 2 years...so apart from their ardent fans most people just aren't really taking their side...

I meant she was more a victim that anyone thought it was a good idea to just marry him off to her at 19. I mean her family really just handed her over.

 

[bmbutler2]

Got it, thanks! I hate it when people make everything about race (some things, many things, clearly are...but not everything) because in doing so, they pooh-pooh real and justified criticism.

Good point. Even if that’s the case, I think their motivations were good.....Why Harry couldn’t have had real, honest discussions with William and his friends instead of choosing the nuclear option is beyond me. He’s a hot head, and frankly seems impossible to deal with.

Denville:



I agree.....I’m sure they do want to do good things, honestly, but their actions taint even their noblest causes.

His recent authorized biography details his life after his mother dies and shows how he ended up as he is. Meghan laid the trap for him and he fell right in for his new mummy. He has burned the bridge to the public. Meghan just needs to stop. I think she wanted to be another Diana. In this social media and instant news world, she thought wrong. I don't think Diana would be viewed as favorably today if she were living and pulling stuff like the Panorama interview and calling the media too.

 

[Denville]

I meant she was more a victim that anyone thought it was a good idea to just marry him off to her at 19. I mean her family really just handed her over.

I dont want to go off topic, but Diana was an adult. She was old enough to get married, and she wanted to marry Charles.. and she wanted to be Princess of wales. her family didn't "hand her over". I suspect if they had tried to stop her marrying C they would have found Diana completely determined to go her own way.
And whatever excuse there is for saying "Diana was very young and ended up in a bad marriage", this cant apply to Harry. He is a grown man. He had many years when he was able to do his own thing, to have a career in the army as he wanted, and unlike his father, he wasn't expected to marry a Protestant virgin..
He had a good deal of freedom to lead his own life, until he gave up the army and with Philip's retirement the RF wanted him to get into full time royal work. He was able to have a royal working role that involved travel and working with the Commonwealth, partly in Africa which he claims to love. He had as much freedom as anyone royal can expect and more than most of us can expect....

 

[poppy7]

I dont want to go off topic, but Diana was an adult. She was old enough to get married, and she wanted to marry Charles.. and she wanted to be Princess of wales. her family didn't "hand her over". I suspect if they had tried to stop her marrying C they would have found Diana completely determined to go her own way.
And whatever excuse there is for saying "Diana was very young and ended up in a bad marriage", this cant apply to Harry. He is a grown man. He had many years when he was able to do his own thing, to have a career in the army as he wanted, and unlike his father, he wasn't expected to marry a Protestant virgin..
He had a good deal of freedom to lead his own life, until he gave up the army and with Philip's retirement the RF wanted him to get into full time royal work. He was able to have a royal working role that involved travel and working with the Commonwealth, partly in Africa which he claims to love. He had as much freedom as anyone royal can expect and more than most of us can expect....

Youth services now say that you are not an adult until 25 as your brain is still developing.

I think Diana could have done with a bit more advice.

Harry is in no such situation.

His recent authorized biography details his life after his mother dies and shows how he ended up as he is. Meghan laid the trap for him and he fell right in for his new mummy. He has burned the bridge to the public. Meghan just needs to stop. I think she wanted to be another Diana. In this social media and instant news world, she thought wrong. I don't think Diana would be viewed as favorably today if she were living and pulling stuff like the Panorama interview and calling the media too.

And the author of that book worth in the telegraph that H and M bring out the worst in eachother.

 

[Denville]

His recent authorized biography details his life after his mother dies and shows how he ended up as he is. Meghan laid the trap for him and he fell right in for his new mummy. He has burned the bridge to the public. Meghan just needs to stop. I think she wanted to be another Diana. In this social media and instant news world, she thought wrong. I don't think Diana would be viewed as favorably today if she were living and pulling stuff like the Panorama interview and calling the media too.

I haven't read it.. but it does seem that he's been pretty traumatised by Diana's death. I saw a couple of royal programmes lately where I noticed that in the footage of Will and Harry, out seeing the flowers etc, Harry looks bewildered, poor kid. WIlliam was a couple of years older and I think he was better able to hold it together, but poor Harry is really confused and lost looking...
And it seems like hes gone on suffering from the trauma.. He seems like its all got worse though rather than better since he married...

Youth services now say that you are not an adult until 25 as your brain is still developing.

I think Diana could have done with a bit more advice.

Harry is in no such situation.

I fear that Diana like her son, was always unwilling to take advice... and she was teh same at 19 or when she was 35 or 36.. And really when will people be "grown up"?? perhaps not till they're 50)

 

[Marengo]

Please refrain from using insults when referring to the Duke and Duchess or to each other.

Posts have been deleted.

 

[tihkon2]

It is evident that no one here likes or cares for Megan. That is a fact. I hope that Megan and Harry continue their life as they want it not as everyone else wants it. JMOO as you have yours.

Um...no. That's not a fact. Do many people not support them here? Yes, that's true. However, there's a group on here that defend every single thing about Megan and Harry. And they are quite vocal here. So I have no idea what you're talking about. In my opinion your "fact" is not one at all.

 

[TLLK]

Kate sending flowers for her birthday. Nice gesture but Meghan needed advice from another married in on how to deal with the press and support. Kate now only looks like she was out for herself and protecting her position.

William saw Meghan as Harry's new toy and should be nothing more. Once the queen signed off more work should have been done.

British Media going full tilt protecting the Firm is basically protecting their jobs. The Meghan made Kate cry has been refuted and the fallout with friends has been expanded to class and race indignities. Dad has been exposed for getting paid for Pap gate. The Establishment is mad it got scooped and it is taking it out on Scobie on social media.

The Firm brought some of this spilling onto the streets on itself starting with the courtiers. Listening to full of themselves employees and letting them disrespect an incoming royal who was going to be someone to work for. Any other "Firm" would has fired them for insubordination, but the royals let the inmates (courtiers) run the asylum. The House of Windsor needs to own some of this - and they do. Blaming the Sussexes is not going make this go away. Any action by the Firm will be seen as retaliatory and willingly wanting to harm a 14 month old child.

Actually I believe that at that point in their relationship that Catherine knew all to well that Meghan would likely not listen to advice or suggestions on dealing with the media or as life as a member of the BRF.


William who knows his brother far better than anyone else gave reasonable and sound advice to his brother. HM assigned one of her top aides, Samantha Cohen to the couple to help guide them. However would they have listened to her?

 

[Denville]

Actually I believe that at that point in their relationship that Catherine knew all to well that Meghan would likely not listen to advice or suggestions on dealing with the media or as life as a member of the BRF.

If Kate did give advice to Meghan, she would probably say what experienced royals and courtiers have been saying for the last 50 years. "Ignore the press. They are horrible and they say unfair things.. but if you get embroiled in rows with them, you'll spend all of your time arguing. If something is seriously bad, or affects your child, yes, go to law or make a complaint but by and large it is best to ignore and get on with your work."
However I agree, I think that Kate realised that Meg wouldn't listen...and by then she probably didnt like he well enough to make any big effort when she felt it would do no good. Strange though that at the beginning Harry was assuring us that William and K were all keen on Meg and longing to be pals with her...

 

[Claire]

I am beginning to think that the people that found freedom are the royals left in England.
Okay _ so book gives nothing new and everything that was leaked at the time of them leaving was everything. I don’t understand I always assumed that something momentus must have happened to result in their flare up. Seems I was wrong. Really confused how they could have published this book as well. It doesn’t even deliver on what it promised.

 

[poppy7]

I am beginning to think that the people that found freedom are the royals left in England.
Okay _ so book gives nothing new and everything that was leaked at the time of them leaving was everything. I don’t understand I always assumed that something momentus must have happened to result in their flare up. Seems I was wrong. Really confused how they could have published this book as well. It doesn’t even deliver on what it promised.

It's a matter of perspective. They clearly belief that this gives a brilliant version and the true version. But it's all a bit...tumbleweed...

 

[Betsypaige]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...irms-theyre-worlds-tone-deaf-whiny-brats.html

Good old Piers is right: most of the stories the 'lying' press wrote about them were 100 percent true!

So either they sue for slander or they don't which means the content is true. I don't see how anyone can believe that H&M have nothing to do with the book. Unless the authors have clairvoyant skills we have an Andrew Morton scenario here.

I love this article, it’s spot on!

They’ve become serial victims, intent on painting themselves as the most hard-done-by people on God’s earth.

Yet the more they complain, as the rest of the world struggles with the very real hell of the worst pandemic for 100 years, the more they expose themselves as a pair of appallingly bitter, staggeringly self-obsessed, utterly deluded, and woefully tone-deaf laughing stocks.

In the book, Harry and Meghan, always so angry at media intrusion into their family’s life, have stuck the knife into his family in spectacular fashion.

Harry whacks his brother Prince William for being a snob and his father Prince Charles for being thoughtless, while Meghan whacks her sister-in-law Kate, the Duchess of Cambridge, for being cold and insensitive towards her.

The other part I wanted to bring up was Meghan tipping off the paparazzi in Toronto......So, when she and Harry complain about the media, it’s only critical media they can’t stand; they’re good if coverage is positive, which is why they have their little coterie of young, hangers-on, wanna-be reporters...

 

[Curryong]

The book isn't out yet, not published until August IIth. All we are seeing is excerpts in which the tabloid press has come out and emphasised some bits and ignored others. You can't get the full impression of the content of a book from cherry picking brief parts.

 

[Betsypaige]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...IR-Meghan-Harry-biography-whinge-Windsor.html

It's a hill of half-baked beans and one long howl of childish petulance: JAN MOIR on the Meghan and Harry biography that has put the whinge into Windsor

I’m cracking up - brilliant article!

I could have quoted many parts of the article, but to me, the below hits the nail on the head.

The couple feel belittled and overlooked, especially as they suspect they are the hot new stars in the cobwebbed royal orbit. To this end, they saw every request denied as an act of sabotage, their star power deliberately diluted as they were restricted to humdrum pageantry.

What did the pair of them want or expect?

Top billing, it seems. What is remarkable is that Harry’s whole life and entire upbringing have been devoted and calibrated to him being a prince. Surely he understands how it works? Surely he could have explained the system to his vexed new bride?

Primarily, that being royal is a form of active service, with ranks and a hierarchy so uncomplicated that schoolchildren throughout the realm understand the line of succession and its importance to the Windsors — and to us.

 

[carlota]

Kate sending flowers for her birthday. Nice gesture but Meghan needed advice from another married in on how to deal with the press and support.

meghan was the one who was a hollywood actress - she had way more experience about PR, comms, having an online presence, etc than any other lady who married into their families out there. if there was anyone prepared to deal with the press, it was her. yet it was kate who should have reached out to her to tell her how to deal with the press

kate was a private individual, who has suffered as much abuse by the media as meghan - yet as any intelligent woman would, she learnt the ropes on something that was unfamiliar to her and leaned on her advisors. the result? a stellar performance, with 10 flawless years as a royal and zero scandals.

maybe meghan should have done the same to deal with the press (get advisors, trust them, follow their advice and learn the ropes with humility), rather than expect kate to tell her what to do. not that M would listened, given her track record!

i also like how the narrative on them changes depending on what story they need to defend themselves against. if this related to their new business (to be 'financially independent'), they'd tout how PR-savvy they are. but now, because it suits them, kate should have given advice to the hollywood actress on how to handle the media.

 

[Curryong]

Piers Morgan has an obsession with Meghan IMO and with Harry. I think what has to be remembered is that many in the media pack coming out to attack now are employed by the newspaper group that is being sued by the Sussexes. That's hardly unbiased reporting we are seeing!

 

[Betsypaige]

Kate is not Meghan's babysitter. The Court has staff who were assigned (by the Queen herself) to coach H&M and, as the DM said, not all of them were grey suits (some were actually "in skirts" so to speak). H&M chose to ignore their advice and call them "vipers" instead.



Meghan probably would have ignored Kate's advice too. She was not looking for coaching, but rather for someone who would tell her what she wanted to hear. At least that is my impression.

This!! Meghan wants and expects too much from everyone around her, especially Kate.

The idea that William saw Meghan as a “new toy” is ridiculous. As I said in another post, he’d seen two of Harry’s long term relationships end because the women didn’t want a life in the BRF. How a brother expressing concern for his brother is problematic escapes me. What is problematic is that both H and M want “yes men/women” only around them, sycophants. Anyone expressing any concern or doubt? Off with their heads!

 

[Betsypaige]

And yet the retaliators did not care about harming a 7 year-old, a 5 year-old and a 2 year-old. Or a 99 year-old and 94 year-old. Interesting that your compassion only extends to the 1 year-olds of the world. That is unique tunnel vision.

Or a 72 year old....but hey, HM, the Duke, Prince of Wales, Duchess of Cornwall, Duke and Duchess of Cambridge, their kids, aunties and uncles...they aren’t so much human as Royal. They represent an institution that Harry and Meghan loathe, and therefore are stuck in the past, holding onto ancient traditions that H and M want desperately to break. H’s father, brother, sister-in-law, grandparents, nieces and nephews, etc...are monuments, relics of ages past, who don’t have any feelings to be respected.

 

[Lee-Z]

The book isn't out yet, not published until August IIth. All we are seeing is excerpts in which the tabloid press has come out and emphasised some bits and ignored others. You can't get the full impression of the content of a book from cherry picking brief parts.

Yep, that is my impression as well, the parts that are picked out now are the juicy parts from the media's point of view.

That said...there are a whole lot of juicy bits coming to light the last few days, it seems the media doesn't even have to dig all that deep and twist all that much (what we accuse them of usually), it seems to all be right there for the taking..the rest of the book will have a big task in rectifying this image of H&M that's emerging..

but who knows..

 

[Curryong]

That wasn't a he writing in the Telegraph. That was Angela Levin, who wrote a book about Harry and adored him. Couldnt praise him highly enough during the year she had followed him around. However, she has never said one good word about Meghan since she became engaged to Harry.

 

[muriel]

Kate is not Meghan's babysitter. The Court has staff who were assigned (by the Queen herself) to coach H&M and, as the DM said, not all of them were grey suits (some were actually "in skirts" so to speak). H&M chose to ignore their advice and call them "vipers" instead.



Meghan probably would have ignored Kate's advice too. She was not looking for coaching, but rather for someone who would tell her what she wanted to hear. At least that is my impression.

I think theheart of the problem lay in that Meghan is not a team player, and never has been. Growing up, she probably only had herself to think about. As an aspiring actress and then as an actress on a TV show, again, it was really about her performance and her profile in the media that she had to work on. It was probably with that mindset she approached the most collaborative of organisations.

Add in the fact that Harry probably was resentful of being the younger son, not very bright (both in terms of IQ and EQ), lonely, looking for direction and you have a perfect petri-dish for trouble!

 

[tommy100]

Why should Kate babysit Meghan? Did Meghan ask for advice or simply expect to be given it? Given how much offence Harry took to William offering advice and support at the start of the relationship why would Kate now put herself in the same boat?

There is a lot unsaid in this book, a lot of the things that deserve more explanations are simply glossed over as facts or a given and yet they are happy to overanalyse the actions of all the other Royals and staff.

Whilst it will never happen I would love to hear from Samantha Cohen, she has the well experienced - had worked for the Australian government, the Queen's press secretary then her Assistant Private Secretary 2011-2018. She had also moved from Australia to the UK so it use to adapting to a new country and to adapting to the Royal Households way of working. Yet we hear very little about her - she was by the Queen and RF during many ups and down starting royal service in 2001 and so I imagine she had a wealth of experience, I wonder what advice she gave and whether it was listened to?

 

[Curryong]

It was the grey suits at BP that Meghan supposedly called 'vipers', not the people who were on her team and advising her and Harry. And incidentally Samantha Cohen got on so badly with the Sussexes that she stayed on with them beyond the time when she was going to retire.

And if the suits (and skirts) at BP and KP were so helpful and generous to Meghan, doing all they could during her time as a Royal worker, what are we to make of the dozens of stories in the Press of the nicknames the staff had for Meghan, the jokes made behind her back, the complaints about her pushy work ethic, emails etc? What happened to the 'Never Explain, Never complain' mantra that is so heartily praised all the time, or doesn't that apply to staff? In fact there were constant leaks.

Very professional behaviour I don't think, leaking to the tabloids in that way, for people so devoted to Royal unity and working to make sure everything went smoothly! Or maybe it was dislike of Meghan from the beginning without giving her a chance, just as Harry has supposedly said.

 

[Denville]

Yep, that is my impression as well, the parts that are picked out now are the juicy parts from the media's point of view.

That said...there are a whole lot of juicy bits coming to light the last few days, it seems the media doesn't even have to dig all that deep and twist all that much (what we accuse them of usually), it seems to all be right there for the taking..the rest of the book will have a big task in rectifying this image of H&M that's emerging..

but who knows..

well all this stuff about what the queen said to Harry as they tucked into roast beef, or how Meghan felt about Harry when they went on a date. How on earth can the authors know about those details and feelings, unless they are told by H and Meg or by their friends? Just as everyone knew that Di's friends would not have talked to Morton about her private life without her OK...

 

[Lee-Z]

well all this stuff about what the queen said to Harry as they tucked into roast beef, or how Meghan felt about Harry when they went on a date. How on earth can the authors know about those details and feelings, unless they are told by H and Meg or by their friends? Just as everyone knew that Di's friends would not have talked to Morton about her private life without her OK...

Oh, i'm not saying the quotes are not in the book ... but maybe the book contains other tidbits the media chooses not publish at the moment and that could balance out the image of H&M that is now emerging from what we get fed...

but like i said, with what surfaces now, the rest of the book will have a lot of recovery to do if any balance is to be found

personally i'm still on the fence because i don't understand if the authors actually wanted to write a positive book and failed miserably, if they have seen this coming or are now flabbergasted at the respons it gets, if H&M will sue them too etc etc...

 

[Curryong]

I've read Camilla's biography and several of Charles's and their friends weren't backwards in coming forward for Penny Junor in those books, including talking about Camilla's feelings about the Charles/Dimbleby interview.

Scobie and Carolyn have never denied that they have spoken to people close to the Sussexes for this book.