Finding Freedom: Harry and Meghan and the Making of A Modern Royal Family

[Lumutqueen]

I am not sure if she had time to receive the same preparation as the other wives. Their courtship was conducted flying back and forth across the Atlantic.
They were engaged in the November and married in May. I would agree she wanted to make a difference etc etc, and indeed was very confident but just how prepared was she for the life within the palace.
This could be why William had asked whatever the question was he allegedly asked. Possibly simply based on the timescale not the person.

This! Exactly this. I think William was well within his rights to ask whatever he did as he of all people knew exactly the situation Henry and Meghan were in. If anything Henry and Meghan exit from the RF shows that William was right, she wasn’t prepared and IMO didn’t want to ever be.

1) I assume we can all now agree that Omid is not a mouthpiece for the Sussexes? That the book is not going to be a cheering squad for them?

4) Harry is not his mother. Because his mother talked to Morton doesn't mean Harry talked to Omid/Carolyn. Everyone has said 16 ways to Sunday they were not involved.

1) I don’t agree. IMO Omid is telling the Sussexes story as they wish it to be, unfortunately their version of events is very negative and can easily be disputed.

4) Henry isn’t his mother. But as has been said before Diana lied, her friends lied and Morton lied for years before it came to light that actually the book was essentially authorised by Diana. It can happen once, it can happen again.

Other than what has been printed, rumored, speculated and insinuated and what came out of the mouths of not so reliable "sources", what has been stated as *fact* that the courtiers and the Cambridges have done that makes them them stinky. I'd really like to know. Seriously.

You won’t get an answer, I asked the same question a couple of pages back and it was ignored.

 

[Alison H]

I don't think the two relationships can be compared at all. William and Kate were together for years before there was any suggestion of marriage. Obviously there's a big difference between getting together at 19 or 20 and getting together when you're in your mid-30s, and there's also a big difference between dating someone when you're at the same university and dating someone who lives on the other side of the Atlantic, but William wasn't rushing.

 

[caethi]

That's one of their biggest problems , not just with this particular situation but in general . Meghan sued a bunch of tabloids for publishing her dad's letter and publishing (fake) stories from anonymous sources . She didn't sue People magazine and those anonymous 5 friends even after they allegedly talked behind her back to a tabloid about a private letter. And so far Harry and Meghan have claimed to have nothing to do with this book and given their track record one should expect them to sue Scobie and his co author because he's publishing private information from anonymous sources .









Fully agree.

Me too. It will be interesting to see how they play this. I really think that H and M are making some rather poor decisions about their relationships with the press. The drone/ privacy issue is one thing—who wouldn’t want to protect their child— but (at the very least) tacit cooperation with Scobie puts them in a very awkward position.

 

[Hallo girl]

IMO From what I have read H & M 's fingerprints are all over this in the same way as the Morton book about Diana.
I do not know if the stories are truth or fabrications , but there are details there that, if true, came from sources close to the couple. If they are that close they will have their agreement to speak. If they are all lies then they can sue the authors.

Another thing I didn't quite understand over the past 2 or 3 years, H & M have complained that the palace never backed them up by denying stories etc, I believe you need to be careful about that route as the minute you do not deny something you are giving it oxygen as the truth. Why didn't H & M not just issue their own statements at the time, make it clear they would not accept untruths printed about them.

 

[RandyDrx]

Like you I do not know whether or not Charles is financially supporting the couple but IMO he will be aware of the pitfalls of them financing themselves through ' business ' or contacts. He will try to protect and support them as best he can, in whatever way he can.

Yes, we don't know if Charles is financially supporting them, but if it's revealed that he actually does, Harry and Meghan would lose even more credibility, especially after their declaration of financial independence earlier this year.

I don't think the two relationships can be compared at all. William and Kate were together for years before there was any suggestion of marriage. Obviously there's a big difference between getting together at 19 or 20 and getting together when you're in your mid-30s, and there's also a big difference between dating someone when you're at the same university and dating someone who lives on the other side of the Atlantic, but William wasn't rushing.

The problem with the Sussex's relationship was that they moved way too fast. Harry supposedly met Meghan in mid-2016 and by late 2017, they are already engaged. That is way too fast for an average person let alone a royal. The fact that it was also mostly LDR certainly didn't help IMO.

 

[Hallo girl]

1)

4) Harry is not his mother. Because his mother talked to Morton doesn't mean Harry talked to Omid/Carolyn. Everyone has said 16 ways to Sunday they were not involved.

The point about Diana and Morton was they denied it for years, although it was obvious that detail had been provided that could only have came directly or indirectly from Diana herself. .

Diana denied having any involvement with the book, but Morton had provided the questions, her friend delivered them, and recorded the responses.

So yes the authors can say they did not interview H & M, and it is more than likely true but some of the detail has came from them either directly or indirectly, or they cannot trust their closest friends. She will know who she face timed from the bath discussing texts sent to her father, or who she later discussed that with.
Just because the authors say they did not sit down and discuss the book with the couple doesn't fly with me I am afraid.

 

[Denville]

We know this? How? Its been surmised that Charles is helping out financially but there's been no credible statement that says this is so.


Like you I do not know whether or not Charles is financially supporting the couple but IMO he will be aware of the pitfalls of them financing themselves through ' business ' or contacts. He will try to protect and support them as best he can, in whatever way he can.

Of course he is supporting them... How can they live in LA paying for security and things they never paid for before, without help? And I agree that Charles my feel he does not want to have to pay £2M a year when they are gone but if he does not help them they may end up in debt or in dubious deals.

 

[Osipi]

Of course he is supporting them... How can they live in LA paying for security and things they never paid for before, without help? And I agree that Charles my feel he does not want to have to pay £2M a year when they are gone but if he does not help them they may end up in debt or in dubious deals.

You're stating this as if it is concrete, undisputed fact. Can you back your fact up with a credible source please? ?

 

[ACO]

The one I feel sorry for in all this is Archie. He will never know his British family and Meghan has no family anyway.

Archie will grow up a very lonely child. Remember Meghan feels she is 'too famous' to take him to a 'mother-baby' group so she is worried he won't get to grow up with anyone other than adults.

It is already 8 months since any member of the BRF has seen Archie in person and they will probably never do so again.

After this book it is clear that there is no way back ... just as the Morton book meant no way back for Diana. This will see the Sussex's out permanently.

The monarchy as an institution will survive. The individuals are expendable Edward VIII learnt and Harry will now learn.

Meghan at the Well Child awards spoke of Archie’s at his play dates with a mother. It was pretty well documented. I know people like to believe everything the press writes about Meghan but come on now...

As for Archie seeing his family? They allege Will and Kate declined invitations to come over to see their nephew. And didn’t invite the Sussexes over either. Is that true? Who knows. But can’t build bonds with kids no one trying to spend time with. It works both ways.

Archie might not be the closest to his cousins now but he has plenty of peers via his mothers close friends. Her best friends all have children around his age. He too young to notice now anyways. Time will tell though.

 

[Hallo girl]

You're stating this as if it is concrete, undisputed fact. Can you back your fact up with a credible source please? ?

Osipi that is not my quote.

 

[Denville]

Osipi that is not my quote.

Sorry Hallogirl.. Yes it is my quote.. I don't have a source but if Charles is not supporting them how are they paying for their expenses? They have a free house but in the UK they had a free house plus free security. If they are paying for staff, household expenses and security I don't see how they can do that without some input from someone.. and it is most likely to be charles...

 

[nightsky]

Not that I’m a fan of Wootten!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1287316365406277632

 

[ACO]

Another thing. There have been 4899642 book out about Harry and Meghan. Some even members of the royal beat think are ridiculous (Aka Lady C). Most been quite negative about the Sussexes but especially Meghan.

Have they sued any of them? Have they even commented? No. What they have sued for us copyright and illegal pictures. Not books. Nor headlines. So not sure why people are suddenly expecting them to with this book.

People have convinced themselves, whether true or not, that this is like Morton because it fits the agenda. The press and public are the ones who hyped this book to the moon all because it wasn’t 100% scathing you Meghan.

That seemed to be the big sin. Well it’s not that nor is it all that positive either. Not to her or anyone of them. It seems almost balanced from all sides. Though now people are attacking Omid (but not Carolyn’s) character in some of these article.

It’s quite fascinating.

 

[Denville]

Meghan at the Well Child awards spoke of Archie’s at his play dates with a mother. It was pretty well documented. I know people like to believe everything the press writes about Meghan but come on now...

As for Archie seeing his family? They allege Will and Kate declined invitations to come over to see their nephew. And didn’t invite the Sussexes over either. Is that true? Who knows. But can’t build bonds with kids no one trying to spend time with. It works both ways.

Archie might not be the closest to his cousins now but he has plenty of peers via his mothers close friends. Her best friends all have children around his age. He too young to notice now anyways. Time will tell though.

He wont always be young.. and what is pretty certain is that they are not likely (Unless they comes back on a permanent basis) to see much of the RF. THey may not want to, but it does mean that Archie wont see or get to know his British cousins well...

 

[miss whirley]

Meghan at the Well Child awards spoke of Archie’s at his play dates with a mother. It was pretty well documented. I know people like to believe everything the press writes about Meghan but come on now...

As for Archie seeing his family? They allege Will and Kate declined invitations to come over to see their nephew. And didn’t invite the Sussexes over either. Is that true? Who knows. But can’t build bonds with kids no one trying to spend time with. It works both ways.

Archie might not be the closest to his cousins now but he has plenty of peers via his mothers close friends. Her best friends all have children around his age. He too young to notice now anyways. Time will tell though.

Yes, it does work both ways. They turned down invitations to Balmoral, Christmas lunch at BP and Christmas at Sandringham. All were opportunities for Archie to bond with cousins like Savannah, Isla, George, Charlotte, Louis, Mia and Lena. Then when H&M returned to the UK in January and March both times it was without Archie so his paternal family wouldn't see him. But supposedly he was left with Jessica Mulroney who they apparently consider a much better influence on Archie than his large British family.

 

[ACO]

He wont always be young.. and what is pretty certain is that they are not likely (Unless they comes back on a permanent basis) to see much of the RF. THey may not want to, but it does mean that Archie wont see or get to know his British cousins well...

Well if they were not interacting in the UK that wasn’t going to happen anyways. At least the distance will give it a better excuse.

But as they say — time heals wounds.

 

[Denville]

Well if they were not interacting in the UK that wasn’t going to happen anyways. At least the distance will give it a better excuse.

But as they say — time heals wounds.

Maybe, or distance makes it easier to stay apart. If Archie only comes to the UK for a few days now and again as a child, I doubt he'll build up friendships with his English cousins or Charles etc...

 

[Denville]

I don't think the two relationships can be compared at all. William and Kate were together for years before there was any suggestion of marriage. Obviously there's a big difference between getting together at 19 or 20 and getting together when you're in your mid-30s, and there's also a big difference between dating someone when you're at the same university and dating someone who lives on the other side of the Atlantic, but William wasn't rushing.

I think that after his parents marriage William wanted to be very sure that he had the right woman...
Harry met Meghan at a later stage in life.. However, he did not IMO have the chance to know her that well as they were on different continents..

 

[Lilyflo]

The 'snub' claim about the photos on HMQ's desk for her Christmas speech is interesting (although a less volatile grandson wouldn't have been bothered). Objectively, it's obvious this was about continuity as the photos included her father, son, grandson & great-grandson but looking at it in hindsight, I think the execution of it was clumsy. For example, the Queen Mother is missing whereas other spouses are included. George's siblings are there but Charles's and William's aren't. If the aim was about succession, then perhaps just having photos of her father, Charles, William and George would have been more effective. As it is, it's a mix of heirs and family, which is a bit messy and given the emotional state of Harry, likely to upset him despite his family's inclusion in the accompanying film.

This brings me to another point that I've pondered for a while and that is the family's dysfunction both as a family and also as an institution. Various members have said repeatedly over the years that HMQ has a light touch in governing what her family do but if they mess up, they can expect a dressing down (probably from Prince Philip). They've all said there's no training for the role, they just have to get on with it and learn from experience and their mistakes. I think this model is hugely outdated and not fit for purpose in an age of fast moving news, social media and an absence of deference.

I fail to understand why all working BRF members aren't within the office of BP, working under the same 'mission statement', policies and practises with one source of communications to the media. It's ridiculous to me that KP and Clarence House operate separately and outside of BP. Time and again, it's been shown to be a deeply flawed arrangement leading to 'camps', plotters and power struggles just amongst staff let alone the royals.

So my point as it relates to Harry is that he's had too much freedom and not enough parameters. I don't think the system or Prince Charles have provided enough structure, guidelines or consistent communication for either of his sons, which has contributed to the current mess. This freedom has eventually worked for William (mostly) but has clearly failed Harry because he doesn't understand what his role is and was therefore incapable of conveying that to Meghan.

I think it would be possible for Harry and Meghan to come back within a clearly defined structure under the umbrella of BP but only if Harry were prepared to accept his subservient (but important) role and not confuse popularity with status. If he were prepared to work more like Anne and less like Diana, he could repair a lot of the damage done and rebuild bridges. I'm not sure that's what he'd want though and I'm sure that's not the future he described to Meghan.

 

[Hallo girl]

I think that after his parents marriage William wanted to be very sure that he had the right woman...
Harry met Meghan at a later stage in life.. However, he did not IMO have the chance to know her that well as they were on different continents..

IMO they had the opportunity to get to know each other but did Meghan really get a chance to understand the workings of the RF as others had done before marriage.

 

[Denville]

Harry seems to me to have made it very clear that he and Meg want what they want and they expect to get it... He "didn't understand what his role was" because he didn't want to.. ANd I think that insofar as he did understand things, he didn't want to explain it fully To Meghan in case she took off for the high hills when she realised that there would be restrictions on her life as a royal...

IMO they had the opportunity to get to know each other but did Meghan really get a chance to understand the workings of the RF as others had done before marriage.

Im not sure that Kate was tutored in Royal life and etiquette either until she was formally engaged.. But she did live in the UK and had basic general knowledge about the society and a bit about the RF. Plus she was not working full time after her marriage for a few years. I wondered at the time why Meghan seemed to have been plunged in to full time royal work so quickly but concluded that she had seemed confident, had had some teaching during her engagement and the RF felt that she was after all a trained actress and would find public engagements easy enough...
I don't know hw much time H and Meg were able to spend together during their courtship.. according to something I've read he said that they saw each other for a few days every couple of weeks.. but Im not sure if that's true.. or if "a few days every couple fo weeks" would really give them a chance to get to know each other deeply.. or if they would always be on best behavior.. so I can see William thinking that Harry might not know his girlfriend all that well.
SO I think it is possible that Meg didn't know much at all about the UK.. and woudl have benefited from a longer time lving here as H's girlfriend..
Or perhaps it would have been better if, when married, the couple had not gone full blast into royal engagements, allowing Meg to take her time getting used to the new country and new job...

 

[Osipi]

Sorry Hallogirl.. Yes it is my quote.. I don't have a source but if Charles is not supporting them how are they paying for their expenses? They have a free house but in the UK they had a free house plus free security. If they are paying for staff, household expenses and security I don't see how they can do that without some input from someone.. and it is most likely to be charles...

The resounding answer to your question is three simple words. We don't know. Its not our business to know and they're not obliged in any way, shape or form to fill us in.

Perhaps it'd work better if you preview your posts before entering them, Denville? Once again, it looks like I'm responding to Hallo Girl.

Sometimes I get the feeling that people are reading too much between the lines of sentences that are filled with insinuations, exaggerations and basically making mountains out of storms in a toy teacup. Its entertaining though to see who can go the furthest off the rails with preposterous perspectives gleaned from third parties who are in the business of creating mountains out of storms in a toy teacup.

 

[Lilyflo]

Harry seems to me to have made it very clear that he and Meg want what they want and they expect to get it... He "didn't understand what his role was" because he didn't want to..

I think that's a fair point, particularly as it's been reported that Harry shunned a lot of advice from well-meaning and experienced people. However, advice isn't the same as rules or boundaries, which should have been laid down clearly by HMQ and Prince Charles over many years to both sons with regard to their respective roles within 'the firm'. Had this been done better, Harry wouldn't have the option of not wanting to understand, if that's the case.

ANd I think that insofar as he did understand things, he didn't want to explain it fully To Meghan in case she took off for the high hills when she realised that there would be restrictions on her life as a royal...

I think this is a fair point too and I also touched on it in my post yesterday. I said that I think he oversold the powerful platform/global impact and undersold the restrictions, subservience and pace of royal work.

 

[Osipi]

I think this is a fair point too and I also touched on it in my post yesterday. I said that I think he oversold the powerful platform/global impact and undersold the restrictions, subservience and pace of royal work.

Along these lines, I think its possible that Harry overestimated his draw on a global platform and honestly believed that without the "Firm" and its restrictions, the global platform would still be there as intact as it would have been staying within the fold.

He's finding out that just maybe he's a Big Mac that's now lacking that "special sauce" that made him unique. ?

 

[Pranter]

I don't think it's possible to even tell right now what their presence on the global platform will be since pretty much everything has come to a halt during the pandemic situation.


LaRae

 

[Denville]

I think that's a fair point, particularly as it's been reported that Harry shunned a lot of advice from well-meaning and experienced people. However, advice isn't the same as rules or boundaries, which should have been laid down clearly by HMQ and Prince Charles over many years to both sons with regard to their respective roles within 'the firm'. Had this been done better, Harry wouldn't have the option of not wanting to understand, if that's the case.


I think this is a fair point too and I also touched on it in my post yesterday. I said that I think he oversold the powerful platform/global impact and undersold the restrictions, subservience and pace of royal work.

I find it hard to believe that Harry didn't know that he was the second son and as such, he wouldn't be King and William would be.. That he would have less money, less exposure, less deference from the Press etc.
OTOH he would have a better chance of having a career of his own for many years until he was asked/expected to do royal work..
I think perhaps it didn't bug him TOO much in the past but when he was married to Meghan, she was less happy with the fact that she was the second son's wife and had to give way to Kate...
And I am not so sure they talked all that much about royal work prior ot getting engaged. Did Harry really sell it to her by saying "Darling you can do all sorts of wonderful charity work"?
I agree that he probably didn't emphasize to her that the press could be really horrible, that the house they'd get would not be so a marbled castle and that she' would have to be careful what she said.....because he believed that she might take off if she heard too much about the negative side of Royal life.. so she beleived there was no negative side.

 

[Osipi]

Yeps. Covid-19 has thrown the monkey wrench into everything and has affected everybody is some way and the world has turned upside down. Everything really about the Sussexes remain to be something we'll have to wait and see what happens next.

Nothing is written in stone anywhere quite yet. The whole mess has a "to be continued" written all over it. Like a very, very long nfomercial.

 

[Denville]

I think it may be disastrous for them... in that they had a short time when they could use their "recent royal" status to build up a new business..and as things are, we simply don't know when people will be making movies, giving public speeches and travelling about freely again, esp in the USA. And the economy is hit badly so that its not likely that a new business of any kind will do well. So in a year or so when hopefully things are more normal.. they may find that they are just not getting the chance to make money and then, what are they going to do?

 

[Muhler]

I think it may be disastrous for them... in that they had a short time when they could use their "recent royal" status to build up a new business..and as things are, we simply don't know when people will be making movies, giving public speeches and travelling about freely again, esp in the USA. And the economy is hit badly so that its not likely that a new business of any kind will do well. So in a year or so when hopefully things are more normal.. they may find that they are just not getting the chance to make money and then, what are they going to do?

I think you are right.
H&M's window of opportunity is closing.

They had the months after the break with the BRF to reinvent themselves in USA, while they were still fresh news there. And to exploit that for them to benefit from that.
Corona put an end to that.
And as the Corona epidemic still has a firm hold in USA that's not going to change soon.
And in two months all that is on the Americans minds will be the presidential election and the repercussions of that, no matter who wins.
I see little role for ex-royals in that.
Next year USA will focus on recovering from Corona and while H&M might have a role to play in a Commonwealth country, what role can they play in USA?

It's my impression they are yesterday's news in USA.

And while a book like this will cause a stir in Britain, will it amount to more than a ripple in USA, where there are so many other things on people's minds?

 

[Lilyflo]

I find it hard to believe that Harry didn't know that he was the second son and as such, he wouldn't be King and William would be.. That he would have less money, less exposure, less deference from the Press etc.

Well I didn't say any of those things so it's not me trying to persuade you to believe them. Perhaps I wasn't clear so I'll explain my meaning further.

By saying that Harry doesn't understand his role, I mean that he hasn't grasped (or been sufficiently taught) that it's all about service to HMQ (as defined by her and her advisers), which isn't the same as gaining popularity. He calls her 'the boss' but rebels against being guided or curtailed by her advisers. He doesn't appear to realise that gaining celebrity doesn't alter his status within the BRF so no matter how popular he is, his power to make decisions remains the same. He also doesn't seem to understand that he should not eclipse his brother or father as that's not beneficial to their role. I could elaborate further but in essence what I mean is that although of course he knows his position and what the obvious implications are, it's the less obvious, unclear boundaries that are in question and have caused him the most problems. For that, I hold others largely responsible as they have allowed him too much freedom to define his own boundaries rather than laying them down very clearly a long time ago.