Finding Freedom: Harry and Meghan and the Making of A Modern Royal Family

[ACO]

So did Diana, turns out she talked as well.

Iluvbertie provides an excellent example of how they could have cooperate with this book.

Yes Diana did talk. We all know she did. That doesn’t mean Harry and Meghan did. In fact in that interview of Omid’s the reporter asked him like 20 different ways if they did and he denied.

After yet another statement by the Sussexes and knowing they not afraid to take legal action... I don’t think they did. Omid clearly did speak to people of the Sussexes side as well as the palace. Seems it’s pretty evenly represented from the exerts I’ve read.

It’s hardly some gushy piece everyone assumed. It comes across as a royal reporter who wrote about the dysfunction he witnessed behind the scenes. Personally I feel like it’s just repackaged version of what we already have read but the hype did well for Omid.

Can’t hate on the media frenzy boosting a typical book all because of assumptions.

 

[tommy100]

The Time (which is previewing the book before its release) has an interview with the authors and the section where they talk about H&M possibly being involved an giving interviews for the book is very interesting IMO:

So did Omid and Carolyn have a sit-down with Harry and Meghan? “The book doesn’t claim to have any interviews with Harry and Meghan. And nor do we,” Scobie says. But did they have them? “I don’t claim to have interviews with them.” But did he have them? “There are no interviews with Harry and Meghan.” Was there, perhaps, an off-the-record talk? “You’ve read the book. There’s no on-the-record interviews with the couple.”
Was there an off-the-record discussion with them? “No,” he says more quietly, “and I think that you can tell from the reporting, my time around the couple is enough for me to know my subjects.”

It surprises me how around the houses Omid has to go to say simply "they had absolutely nothing to do with this book whatsoever" if that is what he is trying to say.

 

[Mbruno]

Well, well, well....






There’s a lot more....and it’s just whining, complaining, stamping of the feet from these spoiled brats.

I loathe Meghan’s martyr complex. I loathe her disdain for the BRF (“this family”).
I loathe the fact that she acts as if she’s the only one who has ever been deep,y hurt by the media.

I despise Harry’s jealousy. His brother is going to be king and he’s never come to terms with it. He seems to take any attention that William gets personally - and when he’s not given or allowed to do something, he turns green. I don’t blame Kate for not being welcoming to H and M at the Commonwealth service, being adult about it forgoing the procession thanks to her in-laws upset. Of course Kate is going to be protective of her husband if she believes the Sussexes have behaved badly to them...

This book is going to make H and M look awful


https://www.thedailybeast.com/its-bleak-trumps-great-american-comeback-is-a-dumpster-fire?ref=scroll

Harry's "jealousy" is probably a sign of his own personal lack of self-esteem and self-confidence. His delusion that the Palace was terrified about the Sussexes' "star power" and conspired to downplay their public role also seems pathological to me although I will leave that judgement to clinical professionals.



In the end, Harry is just hurting himself. After he and his wife left, it turned out that they didn't have the "popular appeal" they believed they had. On the contrary, as shown by YouGov, they have plummeting poll numbers in the UK (especially Meghan, who is considered a liability to the RF by over 50 % of the respondents in the poll). They don't have a stable job/career either and don't even have a home of their own, moving from country to country and living in a stranger's house. It is really sad.

 

[Heavs]

Yes Meghan was enthusiastic in the engagement interviews, IMO she was genuine in her intentions but her plans were not the royal way of doing things. IMO she did not expect to be told NO. I believe that once she realised that she did not have a free hand, she wanted out.

There's a saying "you have to learn the rules in order to break them."

As in this case, spending time learning the very new and completely different system you have just married into before theoretically being hung ho about how you're going to change/save/break out of it or develop your own style within it.

As a couple they barely had enough time to breathe before they had a baby and decided they were off because they didn't like it.

 

[Mbruno]

There's a saying "you have to learn the rules in order to break them."

As in this case, spending time learning the very new and completely different system you have just married into before theoretically being hung ho about how you're going to change/save/break out of it or develop your own style within it.

As a couple they barely had enough time to breathe before they had a baby and decided they were off because they didn't like it.

I get that Meghan could claim not to understand the rules, but Harry? He grew up in the RF after all and has seen since he was a child how his father for example was treated differently from his uncles and aunt.



Only one person can be or become King and the eldest child (previously the eldest son) inherits the Crown. That is how most European monarchies have worked for centuries. I don't see how Harry could not grasp that simple and straightforward concept and mistake it for a plot by the grey suits against him and his wife.

 

[Iluvbertie]

The Time (which is previewing the book before its release) has an interview with the authors and the section where they talk about H&M possibly being involved an giving interviews for the book is very interesting IMO:

So did Omid and Carolyn have a sit-down with Harry and Meghan? “The book doesn’t claim to have any interviews with Harry and Meghan. And nor do we,” Scobie says. But did they have them? “I don’t claim to have interviews with them.” But did he have them? “There are no interviews with Harry and Meghan.” Was there, perhaps, an off-the-record talk? “You’ve read the book. There’s no on-the-record interviews with the couple.”
Was there an off-the-record discussion with them? “No,” he says more quietly, “and I think that you can tell from the reporting, my time around the couple is enough for me to know my subjects.”

It surprises me how around the houses Omid has to go to say simply "they had absolutely nothing to do with this book whatsoever" if that is what he is trying to say.

Andrew Morton said the same thing in 1992 - he denied talking to Diana or even her friends but he lied.

Just because Omid is denying it now doesn't make it true - or false. He isn't going to bite the hands that feeds him, namely Harry and Meghan. He reminds me of Richard Kay - Diana's tame reporter who always had her scoops. He also denied for years that he had any special contact with Diana but eventually it came out that she would ring him up and tell him where she would be, especially if she had the boys with her.

That is why these writers and royals simply can't be believed. We have been lied to too often, especially by Diana and her supporters so why expect Diana's son/s to be any different to her?

 

[Betsypaige]

If there is no lawsuit against the authors by H&M we can assume this is exactly their side of the story told through their mouthpieces.

Ha, yes...I tweeted the same thing earlier in response to this tweet by Phil Dampier..(my reply is in bold)

#harryandmeghan say they didn't contribute to this book. But presumably if they don't complain about any of the content - and they do like complaining - we can assume they are happy with it?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1286936297089769472

Yes we can, considering they normally complain or sue anyone who says things they don’t like

Madame Verseau what did you expect? This is a book written by fans of the Sussexes and relying on their friends. It was never going to be objective - no more than Diana, Her True Story was going to be an objective examination of the Wales' marriage.

We need to keep in mind that what we get over the next couple of days is going to be a minute portion of the book as a whole. And it's going to be the juiciest and most newsworthy parts.

As Sun Lion said, nobody is coming out of this looking good. It's just hurting everyone.

I think the BRF is fine....I believe the book is going to make, despite the intentions of the authors, H and M look bad. Since the Africa interview, these two have whined, complained and generally stamped their feet when they couldn’t get what they want. They’ve behaved dreadfully while the BRF has been classy and handled themselves brilliantly during this time. All the book is going to do is confirm that H and M are a pair of self-centered egotists. I DO feel sorry for HM, Charles, William and Kate....

 

[Betsypaige]

Harry's "jealousy" is probably a sign of his own personal lack of self-esteem and self-confidence. His delusion that the Palace was terrified about the Sussexes' "star power" and conspired to downplay their public role also seems pathological to me although I will leave that judgement to clinical professionals.



In the end, Harry is just hurting himself. After he and his wife left, it turned out that they didn't have the "popular appeal" they believed they had. On the contrary, as shown by YouGov, they have plummeting poll numbers in the UK (especially Meghan, who is considered a liability to the RF by over 50 % of the respondents in the poll). They don't have a stable job/career either and don't even have a home of their own, moving from country to country and living in a stranger's house. It is really sad.

I couldn’t agree more. I’m still gobsmacked about this idea that Harry expected “better” treatment based on the “success” of his wedding, like it was a TV show. Come to think of it, he does sound like a tv star who tries to throw his weight around because he thinks the show can’t get by without him, lol. If he were secure, he wouldn’t be reading social media comments and getting upset when people don’t say good things about him.

I’m afraid that Harry seems to have bought into the idea that he was so loved that he could get away with anything. Considering the Nazi uniform incident hasn’t ever been held against him, maybe he couldn’t be blamed for thinking that. He seems to be acting on the idea that the public would always want him to be happy, that what he wants, they want.....so he could act like a bull in a china shop, and still come up smelling like roses. He’s found that isn’t the case.

I get that Meghan could claim not to understand the rules, but Harry? He grew up in the RF after all and has seen since he was a child how his father for example was treated differently from his uncles and aunt.

Only one person can be or become King and the eldest child (previously the eldest son) inherits the Crown. That is how most European monarchies have worked for centuries. I don't see how Harry could not grasp that simple and straightforward concept and mistake it for a plot by the grey suits against him and his wife.

 

[Somebody]

The Time (which is previewing the book before its release) has an interview with the authors and the section where they talk about H&M possibly being involved an giving interviews for the book is very interesting IMO:

So did Omid and Carolyn have a sit-down with Harry and Meghan? “The book doesn’t claim to have any interviews with Harry and Meghan. And nor do we,” Scobie says. But did they have them? “I don’t claim to have interviews with them.” But did he have them? “There are no interviews with Harry and Meghan.” Was there, perhaps, an off-the-record talk? “You’ve read the book. There’s no on-the-record interviews with the couple.”
Was there an off-the-record discussion with them? “No,” he says more quietly, “and I think that you can tell from the reporting, my time around the couple is enough for me to know my subjects.”

It surprises me how around the houses Omid has to go to say simply "they had absolutely nothing to do with this book whatsoever" if that is what he is trying to say.

Thanks for this excerpt. So, they did talk off-the record but it wasn't an official off-the-record discussion?! If they had not cooperated in any way, it would have been very easy to say so. So, at least he has the decency not to spout out-right lies but prefers to avoid answering the questions to hide the truth without lying. Sound a lot like how they probably went about the interview with Meghan's friends: doing things in a roundabout way so most questions could be dodged.

 

[Queen Claude]

Remember Diana denied contributing to the Morton book for years and then it turned out that she had co-operated not only by allowing her friends to talk but actually talking to Morton herself.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Harry hasn't done the same thing.

There is one piece in The Times that would suggest that possibility as according to the book Harry had lunch alone with The Queen. What was discussed over this lunch is as follows:

'As they tucked into a roast lunch, the Queen made it clear to Harry that she would always support him in whatever he decided to do. Though a 12-month trial period had already been promised to Harry earlier in the year, their conversation was also a reminder that should he and Meghan ever want to return to their roles, they were always welcome.'

Who is the source for this discussion if, as Scobie says, it was just 'granny and grandson'? The Queen - I doubt it. Harry - possibly.

I don't have access to The Times but that passage appeared another online publication and it stood out immensely. My immediate conclusion was that there is no way that the "source" relaying this anecdote is doing it without the knowledge and consent of one or both Sussexes.

Except they did. They have always stated they were not involved with this book. They can say it 48976322 times but people will believe whatever they want.

The exerts I read it’s a whole lot of “palace sources”, “a friend said”, “spoke by a courtier”, etc. So all “sides” seem somewhat represented in their version of things.

A recent statement by a spokesperson for the Sussexes:

"The Duke and Duchess of Sussex were not interviewed and did not contribute to Finding Freedom. "This book is based on the authors' own experiences as members of the royal press corps and their own independent reporting."

I don't disbelieve the statement but it is a distinction without a difference because what I don't believe is that a person who is close enough to Harry to be told the story about Harry's lunch with The Queen would not relay it without Harry's approval.

I agree that it seems like Durand and Scobie did tap into sources beyond those close to the Sussexes.

 

[Alison H]

An earlier poster reminded us of how other incomers to the family were treated, Philip, Queen Mary, Queen Mother. What do the three of them now have in common, they put the work ethic into play , played the long game and served their monarch. All well thought of, not perfect by any means but respected.

The one I forgot to mention was Prince Albert, who, when he first appeared on the scene, was slated all over the papers as a penniless German princeling trying to scrounge off the British taxpayer. And that was 180 years ago! And it's not just here, either - plenty's been said about Queens Letizia and Maxima, Crown Princess Mette-Marit and Prince Daniel. None of this is nice, but it really is not personal to Harry and Meghan. And, as you say, all the others played the long game and ended up being seen as national treasures.

 

[Betsypaige]

I can’t say I’m surprised..

The “largely” part regarding Charles is interesting, but clearly Harry and Meghan’s biggest issues were and have been with William and Kate. Like I’ve said before, Harry’s jealousy of his brother is poisonous - and as long as he can’t get over the fact that William will be King, that he can’t have everything William will have and that Meghan is not in the same position as Kate is, then the brothers can never truly reconcile. I feel so badly for William and Kate...whatever is said about them in this book, I don’t believe.

I would like to dispute this idea that HM is always the one who is going to be the most upset about anything. Of course she’ll be deeply upset with this book, but imagine being Charles and having your sons’ rift being laid bare? His sons, who were once so incredibly close? He’ll hurt for William, he’ll hurt for Kate...and I’m sure he’ll hurt for Harry.

While they come across as victims for the most part, particularly at the hands of the tabloid press, other senior royals come under scrutiny. While Prince Charles appears largely as a well-intentioned father who wants the best for his youngest son, William and Kate “‘come across as quite cold at times and unwelcoming,“ adds the source.

There have been claims that the book will further deepen the rift between William and Harry, who fell out around the time Harry and Meghan got engaged when William voiced concerns that the relationship was moving too quickly. At one point things were so dire between the brothers that they weren’t speaking. While it is not known if the brothers have discussed the book and its findings, William will be understandably nervous about airing their grievances in public.

“It’s going to open old wounds at a time when everyone wanted to move on,” said a family source. “I think the person who will be most upset about it all is the Queen.”

https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2020/07/prince-harry-meghan-markle-biography-royal-family

 

[muriel]

The one I forgot to mention was Prince Albert, who, when he first appeared on the scene, was slated all over the papers as a penniless German princeling trying to scrounge off the British taxpayer. And that was 180 years ago! And it's not just here, either - plenty's been said about Queens Letizia and Maxima, Crown Princess Mette-Marit and Prince Daniel. None of this is nice, but it really is not personal to Harry and Meghan. And, as you say, all the others played the long game and ended up being seen as national treasures.

The key thing, IMO, is if you commit to something (in this case becoming a working royal), you stick to it. Or at least, give it its due, and give it some time. In this case, from wedding to announcement of stepping back was around 18 months. There was certainly no long game, as far as commitment to Crown and Queen being played here!?

 

[Queen Claude]

Meghan has been quoted more than once, "don't give it five minutes if you're not willing to give it five years."

That quote pops in my head often, maybe some day Meghan will be interviewed and will reconcile this maxim with her brief tenure with The Firm.

 

[Muhler]

Having read some of the excerpts with the big filter on, I'd say if this is a book supposed to be written by fans/supporters of H&M, I would be seriously worried about books written by critics and detractors, were I H&M!

It's a disaster!

In the wake of this book, if it continues like this, H&M will be left behind like flattened road-kills.
This book leaves the impression of H&M being whiny, stubborn, immature, having too high an opinion of themselves and their status (also globally), failing to understand and accept their supporting roles within the BRF and putting themselves and their own interests above the BRF.

And as has already been pointed out, unless H&M makes it very, very clear that they had absolutely nothing to do with this book, this book that is supposed to be on their side will be a PR-disaster and burn most if not all the remaining flimsy rope-bridges there still are between H&M and UK. Even if H&M reconcile themselves with the rest of the BRF (and we may hope that of course.)

I think there are a few things that can now be labelled facts:
November 2017. - William asked Harry whether he was sure about the marriage/Meghan. (A natural question to ask IMO. Not least considering Harry's position.)
For whatever reason Harry was deeply offended and saw it as an attack on Meghan, perhaps by the entire BRF.

QEII had a personal meeting with Harry making it clear that H&M could return back if they wanted to. - There is no need to describe such a meeting if it didn't take place as described. The content of that chat would have been well-known within the BRF and senior advisors (and close friends who would have heard about it second hand.)

Harry in particular but also very much Meghan clearly had an intention to "modernize/reform" the way the BRF does things. (*) And that approach met with considerable opposition and was advised against within the court and the BRF.
There are now too many references to that strife to label it anything less than very plausible.
I also think the quote Meghan was "difficult to work with" is genuine. It has been said outright, to Harry probably, by someone.
In a hierarchical structure as a royal family everyone but the monarch have supporting roles. There is no room for someone going solo. So I believe it would have been strongly advised against by every court official imaginable and probably met with considerable irritation and perhaps even anger within the rest of the BRF.
I would find it very plausible that it would have soured the relationship with W&K in particular. - William is not particularly extrovert as is and Kate has had a rough time before getting to where she is now! A human reaction would be: "Hey Harry, we counted on your support! Are you now going to compete against us or what?!?"

It is also now a fact that H&M went on with their attempts to reform the BRF from within, despite being advised against it and attempting to do that as soon as possible, pretty much from day one actually. And that both Harry and Meghan were eager to implement those changes and that both went against advise.
There are too many references to that to dismiss it as speculation. In fact I'd say that's what the whole book is about!

The book indicates very clearly to me that Meghan went into the BRF with a completely distorted view of her role. She obviously saw it as a platform for causes she saw as being the most relevant. Rather than getting a prominent supporting role to use phrases from the acting world.
Whether she was egged on by Harry or whether she went into this life with that intention is open to speculation. But IMO she did not intend merely to be the supporting wife of a supporting prince.
What baffles me even more is Harry's approach! He was born into the system, he knew his role from infancy but that obviously wasn't enough for him.
Whether that is down to jealousy, a lack of purpose in life or a genuine belief that the BRF are doing the whole thing totally wrong is of course debatable.
What is clear from this book is that H&M were both determined on reforming the BRF from within.

The book also indicates to me that H&M misread the public welcome Meghan initially got and the popularity and attention team H&M enjoyed. And that it encouraged them to go ahead with their reforms, and when met with firm opposition from within the court and the BRF, they basically ran away sulking. Hoping the public will understand. Hence this book.

- That's the impression I as a detached foreigner get from this book.
To the best of my abilities I find it difficult to defend H&M based on what has emerged so far.

(*) You know I have often advocated that the BRF members build a closer personal relationship with the Continental royal families. To learn and exchange experiences with others in a similar situation and how they handle things. - Or at least to have someone to offload frustrations with, who can genuinely understand how you feel.
Perhaps if Harry had known and asked for advise from someone completely outside "the firm" his thinking and approach would have been different?

 

[Claricecolin]

There've been stories about "courtiers" looking down on people for years. Prince Philip, a great-great-grandson of Queen Victoria, and a prince of Greece and Denmark in his own right, got snotty comments from courtiers because he wasn't part of the Establishment and was seen as a male Cinderella. There've also been reports about Queen Mary, because the Tecks were only morganatic royals, and the Queen Mother, because she was a "commoner", being looked down on, and we've all heard some of the nasty comments about the Middletons. They all managed to cope with it!

Ok, I see this argument all the time and it has merit. However, despite the dismissal there is at least 1 probably 2 additional layers here. No one wants to use the "r" word so let's go with unconscious bias; it is real and it does exist. There have been things said in the tabloids about Meghan that clearly show this. There have been "palace sources" that have said things. I wouldn't be surprised if Meghan was not completely surprised by it but Harry was furious. When one is in an interracial relationship you see things you may have not seen before or see it differently. There are ways to make someone uncomfortable or show bias without saying something explicit. Also it is fairly easy to discern if someone is making a clueless remark or if they mean it when you have that life experience.

I am not saying that the BRF was intentionally doing anything that was not welcoming but there may have been some unconscious under currents. I do think courtiers may have been less subtle. I think Harry may have felt his wife and by extension he were not being respected and supported. The "truth" will never be known unless all parties give their version of the story. Therefore if it ever becomes known, we, a good portion anyway, will probably all be long gone.

Sometimes "push comes to shove" and a choice must be made. Thinking back, remembering after Archie was born the talk of them going to Africa. Then the announcement of stepping down made because it was about to be leaked. I have often wondered if it was a matter of jumping or being pushed out. Not by the family, necessarily . Unfortunately, I think there is a segment that was never going to accept Meghan and wanted her gone. What wasn't considered was that Harry would go with her. I think there is a segment that want them to "pay" for what is seen as a betrayal. I hope all of them can live their lives happily and as they see fit.

 

[Mbruno]

The key thing, IMO, is if you commit to something (in this case becoming a working royal), you stick to it. Or at least, give it its due, and give it some time. In this case, from wedding to announcement of stepping back was around 18 months. There was certainly no long game, as far as commitment to Crown and Queen being played here!?

It strikes.me that she reportedly told her friends she had “ given her life up for this family” when, as you said, her membership of the family didn’t last more than 18 months !

It appears she has “ her life back” now in L.A. Poor Harry , on the other hand, has literally given his entire life up with little chance of ever going back to it ( even more so now after this unauthorized, but uncontested book).

 

[Claire]

Hmm, odd if they had absolutely nothing with this book and aren’t condoling it _ why haven’t they stared legal proceeding to sue the publisher and the authors?

 

[Kataryn]

I think the authors probably thought that this would be flattering for the Sussexes as perhaps many could identify with their wanting to leave the "stifling" atmosphere of the BRF, to have more freedom, etc.. The problem is, the monarchy is a thousand year old institution - the fact that it is tradition bound comes as no surprise to anyone. Harry, I'm looking at you. .

There have always been Royals who left the family, all over the 1000 years. People who just wanted to be left alone or have different political opinions.

The Gray girls or Arbella Stuart in Elizabeth I and JamesI's reign. Prince Ruppert of the Palatinate as heir of the Stuarts, a lot of male Hanoveran princes who did not behave like Royals, some of Victoria's daughters who married quite minor princes. Even king Edward VIII....



Harry and Meghan only have the problem that they are media fodder, with no tradition to protect them anymore. The family is as rich as a lot of other noble families in the Uk, but they should be the ones to not spend their money on one of their own if he (or she) wants to leave? Who could prevent the queen to hand Meghan just three or two parure sets? The queen has enough and Harry< and Meghan could live very well of the auction prices, especially nowadays where so many people are so enormously rich, they have no idea what to do with their money anymore. A lot of these people would buy in a private auction!

 

[acdc1]

I have to say, it just feels like H&M have made poor decision after poor decision in the wake of “Megxit.” I think that ever since the South Africa interview they’ve been trying to paint themselves as the victims of the tabloid press and cold members of the royal family, but time and time again they have just come off as whiny, privileged, and entitled. They seem like spoiled children who throw a tantrum when they don’t get their way. The excerpts that I’ve read do NOT paint them in a sympathetic light at all... and it’s supposedly written by people who are pro- Harry and Meghan!

Hmm, odd if they had absolutely nothing with this book and aren’t condoling it _ why haven’t they stared legal proceeding to sue the publisher and the authors?

Exactly! They’ve been very trigger-happy with the lawsuits recently, you’d think something would already be in the works if they had nothing to do with it and consider the book to be slander.

 

[Mbruno]

There have always been Royals who left the family, all over the 1000 years. People who just wanted to be left alone or have different political opinions.

The Gray girls or Arbella Stuart in Elizabeth I and JamesI's reign. Prince Ruppert of the Palatinate as heir of the Stuarts, a lot of male Hanoveran princes who did not behave like Royals, some of Victoria's daughters who married quite minor princes. Even king Edward VIII....



Harry and Meghan only have the problem that they are media fodder, with no tradition to protect them anymore. The family is as rich as a lot of other noble families in the Uk, but they should be the ones to not spend their money on one of their own if he (or she) wants to leave? Who could prevent the queen to hand Meghan just three or two parure sets? The queen has enough and Harry< and Meghan could live very well of the auction prices, especially nowadays where so many people are so enormously rich, they have no idea what to do with their money anymore. A lot of these people would buy in a private auction!

What are you trying to say? That the BRF should buy the Sussexes off to secure their discretion?

Right now they are probably already getting a hefty sum from Charles and his Duchy income.

 

[Betsypaige]

Having read some of the excerpts with the big filter on, I'd say if this is a book supposed to be written by fans/supporters of H&M, I would be seriously worried about books written by critics and detractors, were I H&M!

It's a disaster!

In the wake of this book, if it continues like this, H&M will be left behind like flattened road-kills.
This book leaves the impression of H&M being whiny, stubborn, immature, having too high an opinion of themselves and their status (also globally), failing to understand and accept their supporting roles within the BRF and putting themselves and their own interests above the BRF.

And as has already been pointed out, unless H&M makes it very, very clear that they had absolutely nothing to do with this book, this book that is supposed to be on their side will be a PR-disaster and burn most if not all the remaining flimsy rope-bridges there still are between H&M and UK. Even if H&M reconcile themselves with the rest of the BRF (and we may hope that of course.)

I think there are a few things that can now be labelled facts:
November 2017. - William asked Harry whether he was sure about the marriage/Meghan. (A natural question to ask IMO. Not least considering Harry's position.)
For whatever reason Harry was deeply offended and saw it as an attack on Meghan, perhaps by the entire BRF.

QEII had a personal meeting with Harry making it clear that H&M could return back if they wanted to. - There is no need to describe such a meeting if it didn't take place as described. The content of that chat would have been well-known within the BRF and senior advisors (and close friends who would have heard about it second hand.)

Harry in particular but also very much Meghan clearly had an intention to "modernize/reform" the way the BRF does things. (*) And that approach met with considerable opposition and was advised against within the court and the BRF.
There are now too many references to that strife to label it anything less than very plausible.
I also think the quote Meghan was "difficult to work with" is genuine. It has been said outright, to Harry probably, by someone.
In a hierarchical structure as a royal family everyone but the monarch have supporting roles. There is no room for someone going solo. So I believe it would have been strongly advised against by every court official imaginable and probably met with considerable irritation and perhaps even anger within the rest of the BRF.
I would find it very plausible that it would have soured the relationship with W&K in particular. - William is not particularly extrovert as is and Kate has had a rough time before getting to where she is now! A human reaction would be: "Hey Harry, we counted on your support! Are you now going to compete against us or what?!?"

It is also now a fact that H&M went on with their attempts to reform the BRF from within, despite being advised against it and attempting to do that as soon as possible, pretty much from day one actually. And that both Harry and Meghan were eager to implement those changes and that both went against advise.
There are too many references to that to dismiss it as speculation. In fact I'd say that's what the whole book is about!

The book indicates very clearly to me that Meghan went into the BRF with a completely distorted view of her role. She obviously saw it as a platform for causes she saw as being the most relevant. Rather than getting a prominent supporting role to use phrases from the acting world.
Whether she was egged on by Harry or whether she went into this life with that intention is open to speculation. But IMO she did not intend merely to be the supporting wife of a supporting prince.
What baffles me even more is Harry's approach! He was born into the system, he knew his role from infancy but that obviously wasn't enough for him.
Whether that is down to jealousy, a lack of purpose in life or a genuine belief that the BRF are doing the whole thing totally wrong is of course debatable.
What is clear from this book is that H&M were both determined on reforming the BRF from within.

The book also indicates to me that H&M misread the public welcome Meghan initially got and the popularity and attention team H&M enjoyed. And that it encouraged them to go ahead with their reforms, and when met with firm opposition from within the court and the BRF, they basically ran away sulking. Hoping the public will understand. Hence this book.

- That's the impression I as a detached foreigner get from this book.
To the best of my abilities I find it difficult to defend H&M based on what has emerged so far.

(*) You know I have often advocated that the BRF members build a closer personal relationship with the Continental royal families. To learn and exchange experiences with others in a similar situation and how they handle things. - Or at least to have someone to offload frustrations with, who can genuinely understand how you feel.
Perhaps if Harry had known and asked for advise from someone completely outside "the firm" his thinking and approach would have been different?

Muhler, thanks for this!

I also think this book will be a disaster PR wise for H and M. They just come off as so out of touch, so self-centered....and so arrogant. It’s the height of arrogance for them to decide that they were going to revolutionize the monarchy, to update it for the 21st century. It’s lasted a thousand years, I think they’re doing something right. It’s insulting to everyone in the BRF, especially HM, to suggest/imply/state that there is something wrong with the monarchy...Harry seems to think that because his grandmother and father love him deeply that they will actually allow him to do anything he wants in order to make him happy. He’s found out differently...

As far as I can tell, Meghan is a “Royal” pain in the behind, and Harry enabling her is as bad. They seem to believe they are better than everyone, hence their thinking they can get away with speaking to people as they do.

I’m so glad that William has such a strong family behind him, that he and his father are closer than ever, because I think this is going to wound him badly.

 

[Betsypaige]

It strikes.me that she reportedly told her friends she had “ given her life up for this family” when, as you said, her membership of the family didn’t last more than 18 months !

It appears she has “ her life back” now in L.A. Poor Harry , on the other hand, has literally given his entire life up with little chance of ever going back to it ( even more so now after this unauthorized, but uncontested book).

“This family” ticks me off. From what we can tell, the BRF warmly welcomed Meghan into the fold. She was invited to stay at Sandringham during Christmas, when apparently that’s always only been for engaged/married couples. Charles walked her down the aisle...and Doria seemed to be treated very well. “This” family - there’s so much disdain in that word.

The timeline is worse/shorter if you remember that while H and M split after 18 months, they’d been planning it well before hand.

I don’t know how much I feel for a Harry, BUT he has given up the most. Heck, he’s given up everything...

Kataryn:

Harry and Meghan only have the problem that they are media fodder, with no tradition to protect them anymore. The family is as rich as a lot of other noble families in the Uk, but they should be the ones to not spend their money on one of their own if he (or she) wants to leave? Who could prevent the queen to hand Meghan just three or two parure sets? The queen has enough and Harry< and Meghan could live very well of the auction prices, especially nowadays where so many people are so enormously rich, they have no idea what to do with their money anymore. A lot of these people would buy in a private auction!

&#55358;&#56623;&#55358;&#56623; Are you serious? You think it’s HM’s duty to support H and M ? To prove what, that she supports them? I have NO idea what a parure set is, but it doesn’t matter. No one gets to decide win HM (or anyone for that matter) has enough money, no one. I find it ironic that your support for this very modern couple includes having them live off Harry’s family for life (and they’re already being subsidized quite lavishly by Charles).

 

[Somebody]

I can’t say I’m surprised..

The “largely” part regarding Charles is interesting, but clearly Harry and Meghan’s biggest issues were and have been with William and Kate. Like I’ve said before, Harry’s jealousy of his brother is poisonous - and as long as he can’t get over the fact that William will be King, that he can’t have everything William will have and that Meghan is not in the same position as Kate is, then the brothers can never truly reconcile. I feel so badly for William and Kate...whatever is said about them in this book, I don’t believe.

Yes, and this rift was more or less confirmed by Harry in that famous Southern Africa documentary - even though some wanted to interpret it differently at that time.

The book indicates very clearly to me that Meghan went into the BRF with a completely distorted view of her role. She obviously saw it as a platform for causes she saw as being the most relevant. Rather than getting a prominent supporting role to use phrases from the acting world.

This to me has been the heart of the problem from the start: Meghan saw her marriage to Harry as a way to advance her own goals (promote her views and causes on the world stage - while also reaching world fame) instead of as a commitment to a man and the family he represents to serve the monarch to the best of their abilities (in which there also would be plenty of room to advance causes that you personally care about).

 

[Mbruno]

“This family” ticks me off. From what we can tell, the BRF warmly welcomed Meghan into the fold. She was invited to stay at Sandringham during Christmas, when apparently that’s always only been for engaged/married couples. Charles walked her down the aisle...and Doria seemed to be treated very well. “This” family - there’s so much disdain in that word.

The timeline is worse/shorter if you remember that while H and M split after 18 months, they’d been planning it well before hand.

I don’t know how much I feel for a Harry, BUT he has given up the most. Heck, he’s given up everything...

Kataryn:



���� Are you serious? You think it’s HM’s duty to support H and M ? To prove what, that she supports them? I have NO idea what a parure set is, but it doesn’t matter. No one gets to decide win HM (or anyone for that matter) has enough money, no one. I find it ironic that your support for this very modern couple includes having them live off Harry’s family for life (and they’re already being subsidized quite lavishly by Charles).

A parure set is.a set of matching jewelry normally consisting of a tiara , a necklace and earrings, maybe also stomachers , brooches and bracelets.

 

[Claire]

I do have a question _ does Meghan think that Diana, Sarah, Philip, Sophie or Kate didn’t give up their lives for the family? Was her sacrifice greater as she left America and her career ?

Look personally I think this book is really nothing but confirmation bias - if you want to find it against H&M you will and if you think it was for them you would as well.

One thing however - I hope that somewhere someone is leaving a door open for them to return. Personally I see Harry has his back to a wall, trending water when there is rough water and there might be really rough water - Harry might need help and if there isn’t I worried what might happen.

 

[Missjersey]

Having read some of the excerpts with the big filter on, I'd say if this is a book supposed to be written by fans/supporters of H&M, I would be seriously worried about books written by critics and detractors, were I H&M!

It's a disaster!

In the wake of this book, if it continues like this, H&M will be left behind like flattened road-kills.
This book leaves the impression of H&M being whiny, stubborn, immature, having too high an opinion of themselves and their status (also globally), failing to understand and accept their supporting roles within the BRF and putting themselves and their own interests above the BRF.

And as has already been pointed out, unless H&M makes it very, very clear that they had absolutely nothing to do with this book, this book that is supposed to be on their side will be a PR-disaster and burn most if not all the remaining flimsy rope-bridges there still are between H&M and UK. Even if H&M reconcile themselves with the rest of the BRF (and we may hope that of course.)

I think there are a few things that can now be labelled facts:
November 2017. - William asked Harry whether he was sure about the marriage/Meghan. (A natural question to ask IMO. Not least considering Harry's position.)
For whatever reason Harry was deeply offended and saw it as an attack on Meghan, perhaps by the entire BRF.

QEII had a personal meeting with Harry making it clear that H&M could return back if they wanted to. - There is no need to describe such a meeting if it didn't take place as described. The content of that chat would have been well-known within the BRF and senior advisors (and close friends who would have heard about it second hand.)

Harry in particular but also very much Meghan clearly had an intention to "modernize/reform" the way the BRF does things. (*) And that approach met with considerable opposition and was advised against within the court and the BRF.
There are now too many references to that strife to label it anything less than very plausible.
I also think the quote Meghan was "difficult to work with" is genuine. It has been said outright, to Harry probably, by someone.
In a hierarchical structure as a royal family everyone but the monarch have supporting roles. There is no room for someone going solo. So I believe it would have been strongly advised against by every court official imaginable and probably met with considerable irritation and perhaps even anger within the rest of the BRF.
I would find it very plausible that it would have soured the relationship with W&K in particular. - William is not particularly extrovert as is and Kate has had a rough time before getting to where she is now! A human reaction would be: "Hey Harry, we counted on your support! Are you now going to compete against us or what?!?"

It is also now a fact that H&M went on with their attempts to reform the BRF from within, despite being advised against it and attempting to do that as soon as possible, pretty much from day one actually. And that both Harry and Meghan were eager to implement those changes and that both went against advise.
There are too many references to that to dismiss it as speculation. In fact I'd say that's what the whole book is about!

The book indicates very clearly to me that Meghan went into the BRF with a completely distorted view of her role. She obviously saw it as a platform for causes she saw as being the most relevant. Rather than getting a prominent supporting role to use phrases from the acting world.
Whether she was egged on by Harry or whether she went into this life with that intention is open to speculation. But IMO she did not intend merely to be the supporting wife of a supporting prince.
What baffles me even more is Harry's approach! He was born into the system, he knew his role from infancy but that obviously wasn't enough for him.
Whether that is down to jealousy, a lack of purpose in life or a genuine belief that the BRF are doing the whole thing totally wrong is of course debatable.
What is clear from this book is that H&M were both determined on reforming the BRF from within.

The book also indicates to me that H&M misread the public welcome Meghan initially got and the popularity and attention team H&M enjoyed. And that it encouraged them to go ahead with their reforms, and when met with firm opposition from within the court and the BRF, they basically ran away sulking. Hoping the public will understand. Hence this book.

- That's the impression I as a detached foreigner get from this book.
To the best of my abilities I find it difficult to defend H&M based on what has emerged so far.

(*) You know I have often advocated that the BRF members build a closer personal relationship with the Continental royal families. To learn and exchange experiences with others in a similar situation and how they handle things. - Or at least to have someone to offload frustrations with, who can genuinely understand how you feel.
Perhaps if Harry had known and asked for advise from someone completely outside "the firm" his thinking and approach would have been different?

Hat doff Muhler !!!

I do think Harry was used as a steppingstone...

 

[Mbruno]

I do have a question _ does Meghan thing that Diana, Sarah, Philip, Sophie or Kate didn’t give up their lives for the family? Was her sacrifice greater as she left America and her career ?

I don’t think her sacrifice was greater as other royal women also gave up their careers ( Sophie, Letizia, Mary, Maxima) and even their countries ( again Mary, Maxima ).

In fact, now that princes often marry middle-class women, royal brides having pre-marriage careers will probably be the norm.

It seems to be that Meghan’s main problem was not understanding that full-time working royals are not just celebrities , but rather state representatives. As such, they operate under certain constitutional constraints and their actions require supervision from the Royal Household ( the grey suits H&M describe as “ vipers”) and, in some situations, even from the government.

Meghan couldn’t be a free agent or pursue her own unchecked agenda as a working royal. If she had understood that and made an effort to work within the system rather than whining about it, she might have found out that, over time, she could have slowly and discreetly pushed her own pet projects as other royals of similar rank managed to do in the past, including Charles’ siblings.

 

[Madame Verseau]

Let's not go into this idea that the BRF is prefect in every way. They are not. Especially if certain households were giving orders to courtiers (call them for what they are, employees) to put out bad stories about the Sussexes to deflect from your own messes is unacceptable. I don't care where one falls in the royal pecking order; it's wrong.

 

[nightsky]

Let's not go into this idea that the BRF is prefect in every way. They are not. Especially if certain households were giving orders to courtiers (call them for what they are, employees) to put out bad stories about the Sussexes to deflect from your own messes is unacceptable. I don't care where one falls in the royal pecking order; it's wrong.

It might be wrong, but it’s been working that way for years. You would think Harry would of known this! I don’t Meghan understood how the royal game is played. Harry failed to teach her.