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  #1861  
Old 08-15-2020, 04:28 PM
Gentry
 
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I just thought... Don't you think that especially Meghan seemed to be very focused on fighting with the media, writing a book, changing the world, being seen the proper way and dealing with lots of negative emotions while Archie is so young? I just feel that M&H spent way too much time on negativity, dwelling in it instead of enjoying their kid. They just don't seem to be happy or too occupied.
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  #1862  
Old 08-15-2020, 04:32 PM
Courtier
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandy345 View Post
I don't claim to know. But I think that this feud just kept getting worse and it should have been nipped in the bud. I think the royals do get access to media or the courtiers do. And I think it would not have hurt to try to refute criticism of Meghan by showing more support. Just my thoughts.
You are obviously new, but KP did protect Meghan to the best of their abilities.
Several rumors were denied by them, some were not- as it was pointed: it is hard to deny something if it is the truth.

The family did what they do, they protected her as best as possible given the circumstances.
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  #1863  
Old 08-15-2020, 04:42 PM
Majesty
 
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Exactly. There's a lot of things that just don't add up for me. How it was then is portrayed as totally something different now? Changing the narrative to suit a purpose never is a good tactic if you want to actually be taken seriously.

Is it perhaps the audience they're trying to reach with this book is presumed to be totally in the dark and uninformed about all the events in the book and how things went down and they're just now coming to light. I think this is what is confusing those of us who have followed Harry's relationship since the news first broke that they were a couple. A lot of "I don't remember it being *that* way at all".
But this is it. first Harry was saying that everyone in the RF loved her, even the dogs... and then there was the persistent story that Will had been cool about her and Harry thought he was being a snob.. and that some royal had called her a showgirl...In spite of the "Oh Meg loves the family' and they love her and they're nicer than her own family."

This is due IMO to Harry's tendency to chatter away and say things and not relaise that people WILL remember that he said something completely different at another stage..
  #1864  
Old 08-15-2020, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by evolvingdoors View Post
You are obviously new, but KP did protect Meghan to the best of their abilities.
Several rumors were denied by them, some were not- as it was pointed: it is hard to deny something if it is the truth.

The family did what they do, they protected her as best as possible given the circumstances.

Not only that, The Sussexes also hired an American PR agency called Sunshine Sachs, which is quite a strange choice for British royals.
  #1865  
Old 08-15-2020, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
This is due IMO to Harry's tendency to chatter away and say things and not relaise that people WILL remember that he said something completely different at another stage..

Add onto what Harry says at one point off the cuff to something that he said three years later in passing and on top of that, scoop in all the stories reported by third parties that heard it from the cow who heard it from the pig that the horse said and you end up with a bunch of chatter that nobody can understand or get straight. Then bake in a warm oven of bias and opinion for a few weeks and you have a perfect recipe for CONFUSION.
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  #1866  
Old 08-15-2020, 05:29 PM
Royal Highness
 
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A new mother should be given the benefit of the doubt. I recall getting very nervous when anyone else - including my own mother – picked up my baby, so I can believe that the incident with the first nanny was either justified or an understandable overreaction.

However, when one person has conflicts with multiple people, at some point, we have to acknowledge that the problem is not with everyone else. Harry and Meghan seem to have gone through several staff members. I don’t recall any rumors that Harry was difficult before his marriage, so I think it is safe to assume that it was Meghan who was having a hard time managing the staff. I suspect that Meghan had never dealt with full-time employees before. As an actress, she had managers, agents, stylists, etc., but no one who worked for her exclusively. My assumption is that Harry was so eager to give Meghan support that he failed to help her adjust.

With respect to Charles being more supportive, I am not sure what he could have done. I seem to recall that the broadcaster who tweeted the chimp picture was fired, so what else should have happened to him. Moreover, as we have seen with Charles and Andrew, responding to the media can sometimes backfire, so silence is often the best course.

Regarding whether Charles should have mediated the dispute between Harry and William, as others have stated, Harry and William are adults and should be able to work out any issues between themselves. I suspect that this book is not really a major source of friction right now. I doubt the royal family is happy, but there are literally hundreds of critical books out there. The “revelations” in this one are pretty mild and really don’t paint the royal family in a negative light.

The purchase of the house indicates that Harry and Meghan are not planning to spend much time in the UK right now but, I don’t think that they’ve burned all their bridges. Personally, I think Harry is the one who wanted to leave and if he wants to come back, Meghan will follow. To return, they should simply do the opposite of what they did when they left: No big announcements. Start spending more time in the UK, make a few appearances for their charities, gradually increasing the frequency until they are effectively full-time. If they work hard, I am sure that the royal family and the majority of the British public will be happy to have them back.
  #1867  
Old 08-15-2020, 05:38 PM
Serene Highness
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evolvingdoors View Post
YesC and Diana and Charles went and did the same thing to their sons via war of the Waleses.

Given Harry childhood, and his adult behavior, given Meghan own behavior regarding family, any family, i hazard that the Sussex divorce - when it arrives- will be just as bad.
Well Diana loved her children but there were issues. Firing nannies, jealous fits. I mean did she think of her children before Diana her True Story. Before panorama.

Anyway it seems William is breaking the cycle and is giving his children a good childhood.

DAILY UPDATE ON BOOK.

Most of this is feelings about the book

She doesn't condemn her father and there is a great deal of truth in it. The media broke him down. However, I do think more support could have been offered to him and they left him open to the persistancy of the media.

The level of consumerism is disgusting. Private jets, the food, the homes, the vacuousness, the celebrities is sickening. The amount of celebrities they invited to the small evening do is sickening. How well do they know these people. The Skippy friend didn't get an invite...for merely offering advice it seems. And him and a load of Eton friends apparently said they lost Harry. I think they did to this vacuous life.

The Kate incident. Kate and Meghan were stressed...that is all that's said.

Meghan is amazing. Everyone things so. Harry does some good things too.

The Melissa thing stinks to high heaven because apparently they were dissatisfied with her anyway.

No one defended them but they defended Kate over the baby botox. Heavy hints that all the offices are competitive and basically they think KP leaked on them.

There is nothing about anyone else here. Nothing about what any of the people she encounters are like. These hugely important people. I mean Jacinta Arden thinks Meghan is amazing. What did Meghan think of her. One of the few female world leaders. If she is so into gender empowerment. Why wouldn't you mention Meghan's thoughts on her. The only people mentioned are the extremely famous and when they said something about Meghan.

Serena William's Mum apparently said they were so proud of Meghan a d everything she achieved. I mean what did she achieve? I mean out of the ordinary. She got herself on an alright TV show. Well that is good for an actress. She started a vacuous lifestyle blog on the back of that and it was successful. She did some charity work. I don't see that as being so big. Basically she married a prince.


I do give Meghan credit for that tour when she was pregnant. She works hard. Really hard.

Yes they mentioned the pregnancy at the wedding. Eugenie told a friend she was upset. Yeah think. No justification given.

Overall I actually am left with very little of the good in Meghan. I do think she worked hard. Tried. Put in her research. Gave a good show
. But this book does nothing but increase the impression she is vacuous, difficult, lacking self awareness, vain and attention seeking. Of course she can be all of these things.
  #1868  
Old 08-15-2020, 05:47 PM
Majesty
 
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Location: London, United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
A new mother should be given the benefit of the doubt. I recall getting very nervous when anyone else - including my own mother – picked up my baby, so I can believe that the incident with the first nanny was either justified or an understandable overreaction.

Ho

Wi



The purchase of the house indicates that Harry and Meghan are not planning to spend much time in the UK right now but, I don’t think that they’ve burned all their bridges. Personally, I think Harry is the one who wanted to leave and if he wants to come back, Meghan will follow. To return, they should simply do the opposite of what they did when they left: No big announcements. Start spending more time in the UK, make a few appearances for their charities, gradually increasing the frequency until they are effectively full-time. If they work hard, I am sure that the royal family and the majority of the British public will be happy to have them back.
I dont think they will be welcomed back. Most people are indifferent,,, some will be ardent fans, but a lot of people who are royalty followers will almost certainly feel that this book and their behavior since they left is a sign that they weren't a good fit for royal duties..
Re the nanny yes new mothers are nervous and so are new fathers and its possible that this was a bit of bad luck.. However it seems to me extremely unlikely that a month nurse, hired presumably form a good agency, was so bad at her job that she had to be fired during the night. I could understand a small problem or fault escalating into a row.. and the parents feeling that they didn't like her, didn't feel happy with her and wanted her to go...
But surely "not that night". I can't believe that a nurse checked out by all sorts of people was going to be so bad that they could not say "Look we're not happy because you did X and we dot think its working out.. so we're giving a weeks notice.." At least that way, baby was looked after and they hd a week to find a new nanny who was more to their liking,
  #1869  
Old 08-15-2020, 05:48 PM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Add onto what Harry says at one point off the cuff to something that he said three years later in passing and on top of that, scoop in all the stories reported by third parties that heard it from the cow who heard it from the pig that the horse said and you end up with a bunch of chatter that nobody can understand or get straight. Then bake in a warm oven of bias and opinion for a few weeks and you have a perfect recipe for CONFUSION.
No the confusion is resulting from Harry sayng different things at different times, whch contradict each other..
  #1870  
Old 08-15-2020, 05:54 PM
Serene Highness
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I dont think they will be welcomed back. Most people are indifferent,,, some will be ardent fans, but a lot of people who are royalty followers will almost certainly feel that this book and their behavior since they left is a sign that they weren't a good fit for royal duties..
Re the nanny yes new mothers are nervous and so are new fathers and its possible that this was a bit of bad luck.. However it seems to me extremely unlikely that a month nurse, hired presumably form a good agency, was so bad at her job that she had to be fired during the night. I could understand a small problem or fault escalating into a row.. and the parents feeling that they didn't like her, didn't feel happy with her and wanted her to go...
But surely "not that night". I can't believe that a nurse checked out by all sorts of people was going to be so bad that they could not say "Look we're not happy because you did X and we dot think its working out.. so we're giving a weeks notice.." At least that way, baby was looked after and they hd a week to find a new nanny who was more to their liking,
I think everyone would agree that is better without them. You can love someone and still admit that their exit has made life more harmonious. The Sussexes were increasingly toxic before the exit. Life is calmer without them.

I do think that Harry would be welcomed back by his family. But once his father is gone, and if he is still estranged, because it is an estrangement really, then that will be it for him and the family. But Charles, given the genes could live a other 30 years.
  #1871  
Old 08-15-2020, 06:09 PM
Royal Highness
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poppy7 View Post

There is nothing about anyone else here. Nothing about what any of the people she encounters are like. These hugely important people. I mean Jacinta Arden thinks Meghan is amazing. What did Meghan think of her. One of the few female world leaders. If she is so into gender empowerment. Why wouldn't you mention Meghan's thoughts on her. The only people mentioned are the extremely famous and when they said something about Meghan.
It's interesting that authors apparently didn't know how Meghan felt. That would seem to say that she didn't share her thoughts with her friends, even though she overshared on other occasions. Taken in the best light, she was being discrete about her more high profile meetings. It could also be that she didn't think meeting these people was that important, which supports your vacuous theory.
  #1872  
Old 08-15-2020, 06:16 PM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poppy7 View Post
I think everyone would agree that is better without them. You can love someone and still admit that their exit has made life more harmonious. The Sussexes were increasingly toxic before the exit. Life is calmer without them.

I do think that Harry would be welcomed back by his family. But once his father is gone, and if he is still estranged, because it is an estrangement really, then that will be it for him and the family. But Charles, given the genes could live a other 30 years.
I think that Will is not too happy right now.. I hope it wont last.. but I fear it might be based on H's marriage.. and he is resentful that he has tried to be helpful to H but is not getting anywhere.. and he has lost a fellow worker in the j ob. re them returning I dont quite know what would happen with the public.
They MIGHT just accept H's return or H and Meg's return if they were to come back to royal work gradually.. if they kept their heads down, did their work, increasing it as things improved..
They might be tolerated because the RF's working party IS going to slim down more and more as everybody ages.. and
British people who like to follow royal events might feel "Well, M and H didn't do too well and I'm not crazy about them but they are needed and if they work hard and do an OK job now, its OK that they are back".
BUt I think their penchant for drama making and their seeming to complain a lot and their "dash to LA" will not be forgotten and may always be a problem. Charles may find them stressful to wrok with and always have to be reining them in.
I thin they are a polarising couple.. THey seem to spark off these "wars" between Cambridge fans and Sussex fans and so on.. and perhaps it is better if they stay in the Californian sun.
  #1873  
Old 08-15-2020, 06:20 PM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post

The purchase of the house indicates that Harry and Meghan are not planning to spend much time in the UK right now but, I don’t think that they’ve burned all their bridges. Personally, I think Harry is the one who wanted to leave and if he wants to come back, Meghan will follow. To return, they should simply do the opposite of what they did when they left: No big announcements. Start spending more time in the UK, make a few appearances for their charities, gradually increasing the frequency until they are effectively full-time. If they work hard, I am sure that the royal family and the majority of the British public will be happy to have them back.

I feel that "half-in, half-out" is gone now. The couple seems set on being based full-time in the US. The plan to live part-time in the UK appears to have been abandoned and, whereas it may be true that Harry might be the one who wanted out in the first place, I don't see any interest on Meghan's part to be back in the UK anytime soon when it is "so good to be back home".
  #1874  
Old 08-15-2020, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I feel that "half-in, half-out" is gone now. The couple seems set on being based full-time in the US. The plan to live part-time in the UK appears to have been abandoned and, whereas it may be true that Harry might be the one who wanted out in the first place, I don't see any interest on Meghan's part to be back in the UK anytime soon when it is "so good to be back home".
I agree but I think it is only because the Queen shut down the half-in, half-out proposal. In my opinion, Harry grew up in the royal family, loves his country and will probably want to return at some point. Additionally, I think money will be a consideration - but not the only one. I know Charles is likely supplementing their income and will probably continue, but I don't know if that is going to be enough to live the lifestyle to which they want. That house is going to need some expensive maintenance.

After COVID has receded, it will be interesting to see if they can generate sufficient income. Regardless, I think it is very possible that they will return when Charles becomes king. The only question is will they be able to come to an understanding with Charles and William about their roles. Right now that seems unlikely but in a few years, who knows?
  #1875  
Old 08-15-2020, 07:37 PM
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In regards to a return - I think that will be quite tricky. This book (until or unless they come and deny any and all involvement in it and insist it is all made up and even then) will have upset a lot of people. Of course its unlikely HM and Charles are sitting reading copies on their summer breaks but they'll know what is said and the key points. After all they are CEO and dep of Windsor Inc and so will know for damage limitation reasons. But can you really imagine H&M joining the RF en masse for birthdays etc now? I think there will be a lot of people in the RF who don't trust them TBH. Things may get better when Charles is King as Harry will be his son and that will make the dynamics different as for now I can't see, for example, Anne or the Wessex's putting up with being around them if they don't want to (I think they were will a lot of people in the RF and household who believe every conversation and actions is up for being leaked to the media, would you want to spend long periods of time with people you didn't feel you could trust or be yourself around- I'm sure H&M would feel the same) whereas when Charles is King it will become - "H&M will be there as my son and daughter in law so like it or lump it". However, the slight fly in the ointment there will be the biggest personal falling out seems to have been between Harry and William and, as we have said repeatedly, regardless of both being sons William is Charles' direct heir and a one day King so just on that, if he insists on not being present when Harry is that will cause issues that can't just be ignored. I really just don't see an easy way back for H&M because they appear not to have just walked away from the RF as a business but have done so with lots of hurt personal feelings (on both sides) which won't be repaired easily and certainly not while they are living half way around the world. I can see the likes of Zara and Mike being the ones willing to act as if nothing has happened but the RF as a whole, I'm not so sure (that's not me being mean thats just how I think the reality will be). That of course doesn't mean they won't and shouldn't come back to the UK, to Frogmore and see those they want to but I do think it will be sometime before everyone in the RF is happy to see them and I don't believe Meghan particularly wants to come back at all.

Half in, half out was never going to work IMO, that seemed to suggest that in the UK they would be royals but in the US (where I always thought they intended to end up part of the time) they would be celebrities free to earn their own money and do their own projects. The only way it would work was if H&M were willing to accept a lot of oversight and involvement from the Royal Household so they can be assured all deals are justifiable and above board. Maybe if a couple with a better relationship with the Household wanted to do it they may have pulled it off but they saw the Household as hostile already so I think everyone knew it wouldn't work out. Despite their claims on the contrary there were never any real examples of royals carrying HRH and being royals representing the Queen on one hand and being able to go into business and make their own money on the other. Eugenie and Beatrice don't do official duties on behalf of HM neither does Prince Michael of Kent. They do support key charities which are personally important to them and attend key family events but it always seemed H&M wanted more than that and quite frankly it just wasn't workable.

In regards to earning income, that will be interesting. If they want to go down the speaking route there may be less business and demand as companies who have suffered cope with smaller budgets for speakers etc and there are less opportunities to host events with large gatherings. - if your going to drop a 6 figure sum on a speaker you don't want to do so for only 30 or so people Covid safely spread out when you could have paid the same for 100 or more people to be part of that. Advertising has been hard hit by lockdowns and recessions around the world so people are less likely to want to pay out lots for an endorsement. In both cases (advertising and speaking, people are going to have to think more carefully so are possibly more likely to default to those they know are good and proved themselves rather than the new kids on the block).

Of course we don't know their income, maybe they can easily bring in the millions needed each year to support their lifestyle without outside earnings, or even without Charles.
  #1876  
Old 08-15-2020, 07:39 PM
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I don’t think H&M will ever be allowed to return to royal duties. I mean, who in their right mind can trust these two now. What’s to say that the return to royal duties won’t be temporary again and they’d be off after another 18 months?

About the night nanny fired on spot, whatever the reasoning, I don’t think we should hold it against two first time parents too much. Things happen.
  #1877  
Old 08-15-2020, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by RandyDrx View Post
Not only that, The Sussexes also hired an American PR agency called Sunshine Sachs, which is quite a strange choice for British royals.
Not for British Royals who value publicity and the spotlight more than duty, apparently, lol.

Meghan is pure Hollywood. She was a mediocre actress, but now she's a STAR, and she wants all those things that come with being a star.

I have to say, Sunshine [...] [Sachs] is doing a lousy job, because the PR around H and M is ALL bad
  #1878  
Old 08-15-2020, 08:00 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskimo View Post
I don’t think H&M will ever be allowed to return to royal duties. I mean, who in their right mind can trust these two now. What’s to say that the return to royal duties won’t be temporary again and they’d be off after another 18 months?

About the night nanny fired on spot, whatever the reasoning, I don’t think we should hold it against two first time parents too much. Things happen.
I agree, they can't be trusted......at all. They are extremely mercurial, and no matter how much they are on "good behavior", you'd still have to watch them like hawks. H and M are rogues - they need to be on their own because they are too ego-centric; everything is about them. This doesn't mean they can't return at all, it just means they can't return to being working Royals.
  #1879  
Old 08-15-2020, 10:17 PM
Courtier
 
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The NYT article was great. The lines about Catherine not inviting Meghan to go shopping with her strikes me as a uniquely American perspective. It would be extremely weird not to go shopping with one’s SIL if you were going the same place at the same time. Not that it was right or wrong to do so, but it would definitely be weird.

I imagine there were quite a few small incidents that over time, would make Meghan feel unwelcome.
  #1880  
Old 08-15-2020, 10:29 PM
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Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curbside View Post
The NYT article was great. The lines about Catherine not inviting Meghan to go shopping with her strikes me as a uniquely American perspective. It would be extremely weird not to go shopping with one’s SIL if you were going the same place at the same time. Not that it was right or wrong to do so, but it would definitely be weird.

I imagine there were quite a few small incidents that over time, would make Meghan feel unwelcome.
Would it also be weird if it isn't your SIL but only the relatively new girlfriend of your brother-in-law that you only met one month earlier for the very first time? Going shopping with someone else seems to be an activity for people who are rather close with each other (last year I ended up going shopping with my boss on our return from a conference as we had to spend a full day between flights and while fun, it was a little weird); I don't think they were close at that point - and trying to bond in public might not be the best option either - especially in their position.

So, would things change if you are a high-profile person that at all times needs to think about the press who might spot you when you are going about your own business - and bringing the new girlfriend of your brother-in-law might create more fuss? You'd think they would both want to avoid any additional press attention.
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