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  #1561  
Old 08-12-2020, 02:20 PM
Osipi's Avatar
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Originally Posted by angieuk View Post
If Meghan says she wants nothing to do with anything Royal ever again; then I think their life now lies in Santa Barbara; does a house in a compound really cost 8 million, with neighbours all around you?

Christmas - they need not return to the UK.
Future weddings - not obligatory.
Funerals - it would look bad if they didn't return to the UK.
Future Coronation/s not necessarily required to return to the UK.

Her father - can't see a way forward with this?

So they might as well make a life for themselves as best they can.
Children do leave the nest and sometimes the child dashes his father's dream of added "& Sons" to the family business he runs and the child goes off to parts unknown to pursue raising penguins and designing sustainable homes made with the local ice floes that abound. Not the father's wish at all but he loves his son and looks to the younger brother that shows an interest in the business and life goes on.

The Sussexes have never stated anywhere or have given any indication that they were giving the UK and Harry's family the Bronx cheer and turning their backs completely on both. They've totally and completely left the "business" and are not part of the "& Sons" dream and went to their own parts unknown to make their own life (sans penguins and ice floes). They're still retaining the use of Frogmore Cottage for when they're in the UK. The Queen, Philip, Charles and siblings and cousins by the dozens are still family. There will be shared birthdays, anniversaries, milestones, coronations and Trooping the Color and summers at Balmoral going on. Why? They're *family*.

I think some people have a hard time differentiating between the British Royal Family and the "Firm". It happens when the family *is* the "Firm" but the reality is the "Firm" is only one aspect of what we know as the House of Windsor. Its the business side of things run like a corporation. The "& Sons" part is only pertinent to the "Firm". That's the part Harry and Meghan have separated themselves from and as time passes and things cool down, maybe will even be lauded by their families as having "guts" to go their own way and be proud of them and what they've accomplished.

Anyone that really wants to see this lesson truly hit home, spend a bit of time watching the movie "Dead Poet's Society". IMO, this movie should be required viewing for every parent.
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  #1562  
Old 08-12-2020, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
The Devil:

Indeed, indeed!

They hinted at their visions, but they were curbed by an antiquated system and thinking. H&M were never allowed to fly, they were never even allowed to flap their wings.
Had they been allowed to try, just try, explaining and promoting their visions of a better world, because that's in essence all H&M ever wanted, ever desired, to do for the BRF, what would we have seen?
They tried within the confines of a timid system to outline their visions regarding rights for women, combating racism and putting focus on the climate issues. All being both national and global issues.
But they were crucified by a biased press corps who only wanted to see flaws and minor mistakes and blow them completely out of proportions.

Despite offering the BRF a perfectly reasonable alternative to try out their new approach, H&M were reined in - hard. Is it any wonder their only option, that de facto was imposed on them, was to leave?

H&M did not leave, rather they were exiled by narrow-mindedness.

- As for flying and driving. That was a regrettable necessity. H&M were appealing to a global audience and the best way to that is by appearance. Surely they weren't supposed to walk and row around the world?
I appreciate your novel approach to trying to understand their point of view. I guess I am just stupid, but I still don't understand how they wanted to approach things differently. With respect to flying and driving, they've taken private jets for vacations and even environmental conferences. I believe we have to address climate change and it will involve many sacrifices, but I do not want to be lectured by someone who isn't willing to give up private jets, overseas vacations, and other luxuries. Just me.
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  #1563  
Old 08-12-2020, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Children do leave the nest and sometimes the child dashes his father's dream of added "& Sons" to the family business he runs and the child goes off to parts unknown to pursue raising penguins and designing sustainable homes made with the local ice floes that abound. Not the father's wish at all but he loves his son and looks to the younger brother that shows an interest in the business and life goes on.

The Sussexes have never stated anywhere or have given any indication that they were giving the UK and Harry's family the Bronx cheer and turning their backs completely on both. They've totally and completely left the "business" and are not part of the "& Sons" dream and went to their own parts unknown to make their own life (sans penguins and ice floes). They're still retaining the use of Frogmore Cottage for when they're in the UK. The Queen, Philip, Charles and siblings and cousins by the dozens are still family. There will be shared birthdays, anniversaries, milestones, coronations and Trooping the Color and summers at Balmoral going on. Why? They're *family*.
I agree the couple hasn't turned their back on the family. But Harry and Meghan actually wanted to continue with the family business, they just wanted to go part-time (and apparently, make a lot of money on the side).
  #1564  
Old 08-12-2020, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskimo View Post
I am following discussions on this book on several boards and one consensus comment about the book stood out to me.

Roughly summarized: This book serves as a warning to anyone who wishes to befriend or collaborate with them in the future-- you will be thrown under the bus when you are no longer useful

If this is true, H&M are losers in the long run because they won't get any people of consequence to work with them or hire them for speeches etc.
Iím sure that is true because it seems that every human being exists to serve Harry and Meghan somehow. Thatís why they are able to cut people off so ruthlessly; when someone expresses concern about something theyíve done or are thinking of doing, that person is no longer valuable to them.

Ultimately, their reputation will precede themselves. By most accounts, H and M are difficult to work for, needy and demanding. Word will get around, and eventually people will realize that they arenít worth the effort.x
  #1565  
Old 08-12-2020, 02:30 PM
ACO ACO is offline
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Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
Oh, they used Fahrenheit? I didnít know that. Well, they may do well financially, but I donít think that Americans are going to read the book and think well of them; just the opposite, actually.
I donít think most people donít care overall about this book (or any of these royals in general). Royal forums are a bubble. It is a dayís gossip and people move on. Itís fixated on here and forms alike but thatís it.

As for how general public view them? I doubt this book has changed anything. People who like them still do. Those who didnít still donít. I doubt it will stop work or connections from happening. You see that now.

Time will tell how it all works out but I do think people vastly overestimate how much non royal watchers really give hoot.
  #1566  
Old 08-12-2020, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
I donít think thatís fair about Charles...Harry is his son, of course he doesnít want to alienate him. Of everyone involved, he has the most at stake in trying to strike some sort of balance, or at least to understand Hís POV. If he puts his foot down too hard, if he doesnít exhibit empathy or sympathy, if he turns his back completely, he could lose his beloved son..nothing is with that.
Of course not alienate him. I think he could rein in the money a bit. I know, I know, itís his money to do as he wants. I wonder, at times, if heís ever put his foot down. It appears H and M require a certain lifestyle and that Charles is their favorite banker.

Harry seems to do whatever he wants without regard of anotherís feelings or ever having any consequences... Does he really have ambition (or is it newly found) with his holier than thou sermons on how people should live. Reminds me of Mel Brooksí line, ďitís good to be kingĒ.

I understand where youíre coming from Bestypaige about losing something with regards to Charles. Who I see emerging publicly is a spoiled, immature, over indulged man child that Charles has probably always known. I believe Charles has bent over backwards for this son.

No matter how you try to protect something or someone, sadly, there are times you find it was never yours to lose. Yes, different opinion, I think Harry is Charlesí Achilles heel. The only thing I see Charles having any give with is the money...
  #1567  
Old 08-12-2020, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
I agree the couple hasn't turned their back on the family. But Harry and Meghan actually wanted to continue with the family business, they just wanted to go part-time (and apparently, make a lot of money on the side).
They had ideas for the way they wanted to work within the "Firm" but those ideas were not acceptable by the "Firm" itself. They then had that choice to "go with the flow" of how the "Firm" wanted things done or strike out on their own with their own fresh, innovative yet untried and possibly even poorly planned out schemes and dreams. They opted to go on their own. No more "Firm" and no more secure "global platform" to hold them up.

The little fishies have swum away from their school and there's sharks out there. For all we know, the could end up being accomplished shark hunters and succeed in what they want to do. Only time will tell.
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  #1568  
Old 08-12-2020, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
But even if people do pick up this book out of curiosity, interest in gossip or what have you, it doesn't follow that they'll agree with it or that they'll support any future serious money making venture of Harry and Meghan's which is what they'll need if they want to stop living off "The Bank of Dad" and financially independent.
Precisely. Some may read the book and beleve in their brand but it wont necessarily translate into buying whatever they have to sell...
  #1569  
Old 08-12-2020, 02:47 PM
ACO ACO is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
Iím sure that is true because it seems that every human being exists to serve Harry and Meghan somehow. Thatís why they are able to cut people off so ruthlessly; when someone expresses concern about something theyíve done or are thinking of doing, that person is no longer valuable to them.

Ultimately, their reputation will precede themselves. By most accounts, H and M are difficult to work for, needy and demanding. Word will get around, and eventually people will realize that they arenít worth the effort.x
It is fascinating that Meghan was on this earth for 35 years before she entered the royal bubble. It was only then that suddenly she was apparently this evil, manipulative, ruthless diva despite plenty of people who personally knew and worked with her didnít have the same view of her. She comes to the UK fold and her entire life has been rewritten.

Itís really stuff like that that has many people not really taking a lot of stuff said by the press seriously. Also why people have interesting opinions of the media in relation to her. She was hardly a blank slate. Do I think she is perfect? Nope. Do I think she can be a bitch? Of course. Do I also believe a lot of the coverage has an agenda? Yep.

If you already donít like someone it doesnít take much for you to believe anything negative about them whether true or not. And the same on the other end. People are biased whether we want to admit it or not. So plenty times the truth doesnít even matter to people once their minds are made up.

So at the end of the day no one truly knows whatís accurate besides those who were there. And how people interact with all in the future likely wonít be revealing either. People who work with them speak highly of the members of the royal family, including Harry and Meghan. I donít see that changing much.
  #1570  
Old 08-12-2020, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
I agree the couple hasn't turned their back on the family. But Harry and Meghan actually wanted to continue with the family business, they just wanted to go part-time (and apparently, make a lot of money on the side).
AND they have't "left the firm", since they're still drawing money from it..
  #1571  
Old 08-12-2020, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
AND they have't "left the firm", since they're still drawing money from it..
OK. I'll bite on this one. Just *how* are they drawing money from the "Firm" still? Last I checked, no one ever gets a paycheck from the "Firm" to start with.

Credible sources to back your answer up too please.
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  #1572  
Old 08-12-2020, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
OK. I'll bite on this one. Just *how* are they drawing money from the "Firm" still? Last I checked, no one ever gets a paycheck from the "Firm" to start with.

Credible sources to back your answer up too please.
we've been through this before. They got £2M a year from Charles, prior to leaving their job. Now they have a lot more expenses, so how are they suppoed to pay for security, life in LA, ad a new organsation, on the money that they have unless Charles chips in?
  #1573  
Old 08-12-2020, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
I appreciate your novel approach to trying to understand their point of view. I guess I am just stupid, but I still don't understand how they wanted to approach things differently. With respect to flying and driving, they've taken private jets for vacations and even environmental conferences. I believe we have to address climate change and it will involve many sacrifices, but I do not want to be lectured by someone who isn't willing to give up private jets, overseas vacations, and other luxuries. Just me.
By being more approachable, by being less aloof and by using other media platforms than the BRF does generally. And by increasingly taking control and directing what they wanted to convey, be that personal as well as topics they wished to put focus on.
Running around cutting ribbons and looking mildly interested in a recycling plant as well as giving neutral, inoffensive sleep-inducing speeches is not only old-fashioned but having next to no impact.
It's passion and dedication that matters and what people want. Better focus hard on a few selected issues than "being seen" looking gorgeous or happy in a red dress.
That is what H&M would have shown us, had they been given a chance.

Sometimes things needs to be shaken up and new approached tried. That's what H&M could and would have done. Appealing to a much wider audience.
The personal, passionate "Greta-approach." - And in a modern globalized world, that works.

And as for H&M going on vacation oversea. Come on. They are newlyweds. they need to get to know each other, they need to be inspired and develop ideas. And considering the huge focus on their persons, they needed a breather. It's hard work to be in the spotlight and being passionate.
It's time consuming and impractical to drag a security detail along on bicycles all the way to say Turin. Not to mention the constant intrusion from the public.
Again, it's a regrettable necessity.

- Thank you.
It works, I can tell you. You should try it.
It genuinely surprises me how easy it is to argue in favor of the overall approach H&M took.
It also surprise me how easy it is to defend and justify the break-up with both W&K and the childhood friend.

It just leaves me even more perplexed at how amateurish this book is.
  #1574  
Old 08-12-2020, 03:01 PM
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coverage of this book's contents has been really quiet in the UK's serious news channels. i wonder if they were asked to keep quiet given that it would be the final nail in the coffin for the sussexes.
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  #1575  
Old 08-12-2020, 03:04 PM
Osipi's Avatar
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
we've been through this before. They got £2M a year from Charles, prior to leaving their job. Now they have a lot more expenses, so how are they suppoed to pay for security, life in LA, ad a new organsation, on the money that they have unless Charles chips in?
That's not getting money from the "Firm" though. Charles is not the "Firm". William is not the "Firm". The Queen isn't even the "Firm". They're all part of the family business they call the "Firm". Even Charles' "Duchy Originals" and the newest thing on the market in the form of Buckingham Palace gin isn't the "Firm". When the Queen throws a BBQ party at Balmoral this summer with her personal guests, it isn't in any way related to the "Firm" and the business side of things.

There's separation of family and family business. The "Firm" is supported by the Sovereign Grant. Highgrove isn't supported by the Sovereign Grant (or the Firm) but is owned and maintained by the Duchy of Cornwall but most often is referred to as "Charles' home".

Harry and Meghan are totally divorced from the "Firm". They're not totally divorced from the family.
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  #1576  
Old 08-12-2020, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
By being more approachable, by being less aloof and by using other media platforms than the BRF does generally. And by increasingly taking control and directing what they wanted to convey, be that personal as well as topics they wished to put focus on.
Running around cutting ribbons and looking mildly interested in a recycling plant as well as giving neutral, inoffensive sleep-inducing speeches is not only old-fashioned but having next to no impact.
It's passion and dedication that matters and what people want. Better focus hard on a few selected issues than "being seen" looking gorgeous or happy in a red dress.
That is what H&M would have shown us, had they been given a chance.

Sometimes things needs to be shaken up and new approached tried. That's what H&M could and would have done. Appealing to a much wider audience.
The personal, passionate "Greta-approach." - And in a modern globalized world, that works.

And as for H&M going on vacation oversea. Come on. They are newlyweds. they need to get to know each other, they need to be inspired and develop ideas. And considering the huge focus on their persons, they needed a breather. It's hard work to be in the spotlight and being passionate.
It's time consuming and impractical to drag a security detail along on bicycles all the way to say Turin. Not to mention the constant intrusion from the public.
Again, it's a regrettable necessity.

- Thank you.
It works, I can tell you. You should try it.
It genuinely surprises me how easy it is to argue in favor of the overall approach H&M took.
It also surprise me how easy it is to defend and justify the break-up with both W&K and the childhood friend.

It just leaves me even more perplexed at how amateurish this book is.
So what have they done to help the world in the past few months? Lived in a welathy part of LA, in a borrowed house, turned up aat a few web chats
  #1577  
Old 08-12-2020, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
That's not getting money from the "Firm" though. Charles is not the "Firm". William is not the "Firm". The Queen isn't even the "Firm". They're all part of the family business they call the "Firm". Even Charles' "Duchy Originals" and the newest thing on the market in the form of Buckingham Palace gin isn't the "Firm". When the Queen throws a BBQ party at Balmoral this summer with her personal guests, it isn't in any way related to the "Firm" and the business side of things.

There's separation of family and family business. The "Firm" is supported by the Sovereign Grant. Highgrove isn't supported by the Sovereign Grant (or the Firm) but is owned and maintained by the Duchy of Cornwall but most often is referred to as "Charles' home".

Harry and Meghan are totally divorced from the "Firm". They're not totally divorced from the family.
Yes Charles is part of the firm. They take money form him, therefore tehy're willing to take money from - well jut about anyone who offers it... like they've taken a free house from a stranger for the past 3 or 4 months.
  #1578  
Old 08-12-2020, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
So what have they done to help the world in the past few months? Lived in a welathy part of LA, in a borrowed house, turned up aat a few web chats
They were never given the chance. And the current circumstances are most unusual due to Corona.

- Gotta take a break from being the Devil's Advocate. There is a long translation I need to finish.
  #1579  
Old 08-12-2020, 03:10 PM
Majesty
 
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
They were never given the chance. And the current circumstances are most unusual due to Corona.

- Gotta take a break from being the Devil's Advocate. There is a long translation I need to finish.
They have the chance now. Other people manage to work at essential jobs, during the Corona situation and they can afford staff to look after Archie...
As far as I can see the only practical thing they did was a couple fo days, working for some volunteer organisation...
  #1580  
Old 08-12-2020, 03:12 PM
ACO ACO is offline
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
So what have they done to help the world in the past few months? Lived in a welathy part of LA, in a borrowed house, turned up aat a few web chats
I mean we can ask the same of the royals -- even down to their homes which they don't even own. Let's just keep it real. Harry and Meghan not changing the world but they doing things they are passionate about. Meghan can approach things that those in the royal bubble have already admitted she never would have been allowed to do had she still be a working royal.

So it would seem it is for the best. They all can do what they think it right for them and their futures. It is pretty clear that Meghan likely never would have been truly accepted in that royal fold. Heck even now we hear Harry is welcomed back without her (and seemly Archie).

They are gone. Everyone is moving on.
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