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  #1381  
Old 08-10-2020, 02:25 AM
Moonmaiden23's Avatar
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This book has not even been released, yet I feel as if I have read the entire thing cover to cover.

Several times.

And I am sick to death of it.
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"Be who God intended you to be, and you will set the world on fire" St. Catherine of Siena

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  #1382  
Old 08-10-2020, 03:06 AM
Serene Highness
 
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The chapter titles are making me laugh. "When Harry Met Meghan." "A Problem Like Samantha." "Stand By Me." And, yes, "The World Gets Wind"!
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  #1383  
Old 08-10-2020, 03:35 AM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darius1 View Post
Absolutely the last thing I want to see Harry doing at the behest of his wife. We don't need an "ex-royal" wringing his hands and saying how terrible the institution he was born into was for the world. If he has any sense of duty or respect left for his country and heritage he will sit in his LA mansion and keep quiet.
The DM is running a story on one of the dreadful authors of this "book" stating how Meghan guided Harry on his journey to "wokeness". For that read his wife filled his head with her ideas and sent him out to preach them.
but if Harry has come to genuinely believe all this stuff, that's his belief now, and as a private individual he has a perfect right to talk about this stuff.
  #1384  
Old 08-10-2020, 03:46 AM
Aristocracy
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
but if Harry has come to genuinely believe all this stuff, that's his belief now, and as a private individual he has a perfect right to talk about this stuff.
That's the big issue. Harry can never be just a private individual so whatever he says will always have reverberations and reflect on the Crown. I believe that he is well-intentioned but misguided and does a disservice to everything he should hold dear by making his public pronouncements, particularly coming from his position of unearned privilege.
  #1385  
Old 08-10-2020, 03:51 AM
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Prince Charles has been 'woke' for years. We just didn't call it that. William's speeches indicate he's much the same but again he doesn't often get the label. We can't ever know but given Diana's stance on several controversial subjects, I suspect her agenda would be 'woke' these days. Perhaps Harry is associated with the label because he's transitioned from 'party boy' to serious commentator?
  #1386  
Old 08-10-2020, 03:57 AM
Aristocracy
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilyflo View Post
Prince Charles has been 'woke' for years. We just didn't call it that. William's speeches indicate he's much the same but again he doesn't often get the label. We can't ever know but given Diana's stance on several controversial subjects, I suspect her agenda would be 'woke' these days. Perhaps Harry is associated with the label because he's transitioned from 'party boy' to serious commentator?
I wouldn't say that the views that the PoW has shared over the years on everything from architecture, to the environment to alternative medicines were "woke" or that Harry could now be considered to be a "serious commentator". If Harry wants to make a positive change to issues regarding social justice there are avenues within the traditional ambit of the BRF - charity support, patronage, military veterans and the disabled etc. Much safer and in the end much more effective than this new persona he appears to be trying to cultivate.
  #1387  
Old 08-10-2020, 04:08 AM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darius1 View Post
I wouldn't say that the views that the PoW has shared over the years on everything from architecture, to the environment to alternative medicines were "woke" or that Harry could now be considered to be a "serious commentator". If Harry wants to make a positive change to issues regarding social justice there are avenues within the traditional ambit of the BRF - charity support, patronage, military veterans and the disabled etc. Much safer and in the end much more effective than this new persona he appears to be trying to cultivate.
Oh come, Harry and Meg want to be noticed. Possibly H has a genuine desire to hlep people, but Meg is IMO mostly about the gesture.. I think the times approaching when he'll be just another celeb talking nonsense...
  #1388  
Old 08-10-2020, 04:13 AM
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Going back to William, it was always said that he didn't think Dave Clark was the right man for Beatrice, and hoped they wouldn't marry. As Dave dumped Beatrice after 10 years and married someone else 5 minutes later, it looks as if he was right. But no-one's trying to make out that that was racist or class-ist or anything else. He was just being protective and was worried that someone he loved might end up getting hurt. Why should it be different with him telling Harry not to rush into things with Meghan?
  #1389  
Old 08-10-2020, 04:18 AM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
Going back to William, it was always said that he didn't think Dave Clark was the right man for Beatrice, and hoped they wouldn't marry. As Dave dumped Beatrice after 10 years and married someone else 5 minutes later, it looks as if he was right. But no-one's trying to make out that that was racist or class-ist or anything else. He was just being protective and was worried that someone he loved might end up getting hurt. Why should it be different with him telling Harry not to rush into things with Meghan?
Presumably becuase Meghan was from a very differetn background to Harry, and was biracial. So any comment might sound racist. However I've often wondered if Meg knew about Harry's casaul use of a racial slur about a fellow soldier..
  #1390  
Old 08-10-2020, 04:27 AM
Lilyflo's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darius1 View Post
I wouldn't say that the views that the PoW has shared over the years on everything from architecture, to the environment to alternative medicines were "woke"
'Woke' is about social justice and Prince Charles was a trail blazer for seeking to help the most disadvantaged young people in society including ex-offenders. He used his own severance pay from the Navy to set up The Prince's Trust. There's a lot about Charles that's traditional but he's always been an innovative force for improving social justice ie he's been 'woke' since at least 1976.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darius1 View Post
or that Harry could now be considered to be a "serious commentator".
Fair point. I'm happy to rephrase that as "Harry now speaks and writes about serious issues".
  #1391  
Old 08-10-2020, 04:31 AM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilyflo View Post
'Woke' is about social justice and Prince Charles was a trail blazer for seeking to help the most disadvantaged young people in society including ex-offenders. He used his own severance pay from the Navy to set up The Prince's Trust. There's a lot about Charles that's traditional but he's always been an innovative force for improving social justice ie he's been 'woke' since at least 1976.

Fair point. I'm happy to rephrase that as "Harry now speaks and writes about serious issues".
Charles is basically a conservative who is prepared to be flexible.. He wants to do some actual good rather than just repeat a lot of PC phrases... and he tends to romanticise the past. Very different to Harry...
  #1392  
Old 08-10-2020, 04:41 AM
Royal Highness
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
Going back to William, it was always said that he didn't think Dave Clark was the right man for Beatrice, and hoped they wouldn't marry. As Dave dumped Beatrice after 10 years and married someone else 5 minutes later, it looks as if he was right. But no-one's trying to make out that that was racist or class-ist or anything else. He was just being protective and was worried that someone he loved might end up getting hurt. Why should it be different with him telling Harry not to rush into things with Meghan?
Well, to be fair it was reported that Beatrice had a "frosty" relationship with William because of his dislike/mistrust of Dave. Had she worked with William and lived near him she might have escalated to hostility like Harry did. Even though William was right about Dave and Meghan, a starry-eyed and infatuated Harry and Beatrice probably didn't want to hear hard-truths.

I respect that William is a straight-shooting pragmatic, that just wants the best for his loved ones. But I can see how the "dreamy" types might find him to be a meddling buzz-kill. I think Beatrice probably now sees the wisdom of his concerns, and with time and hopefully maturity, Harry might look back at his volatile reaction with a bit of sheepishness.
  #1393  
Old 08-10-2020, 04:45 AM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miss whirley View Post
Well, to be fair it was reported that Beatrice had a "frosty" relationship with William because of his dislike/mistrust of Dave. Had she worked with William and lived near him she might have escalated to hostility like Harry did. Even though William was right about Dave and Meghan, a starry-eyed and infatuated Harry and Beatrice probably didn't want to hear hard-truths.

Is.
That's the trouble. Will probably meant well but people don't usually take that sort of thing in a good spirit...Its probably best not to say anything..
  #1394  
Old 08-10-2020, 05:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
That's the trouble. Will probably meant well but people don't usually take that sort of thing in a good spirit...Its probably best not to say anything..
Perhaps... But I think Harry is the type who would blame William for not warning him or protecting him. So William was in a no-win situation in regards to Harry's impulsive love life. I think he took the more sensible option. Now he can always say "Well, I told you.." if Harry tries to redirect blame for his self-implosion.
  #1395  
Old 08-10-2020, 07:19 AM
Helen.CH's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyDrx View Post
There's nothing else the Queen could do except giving her consent. Otherwise, the royals would be accused of racism. In fact, some members of the Sussex Squad on Twitter think that ALL royals except Harry are racist.
the problem then is, H. will not see other aspects which might trouble some members&friends about M., his bothered mind will always think he/she doesn't like M. because of her colour. that could be a one-way-street for Harry.
  #1396  
Old 08-10-2020, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Lion View Post
So it look's like the Duchess of Sussex - or her spokespeople - have devoted an entire chapter of "Finding Freedom" to her sister.

Another chapter to the "situation" involving her father.

Is "Tropical Storms" about their tour of the South Pacific. I hope Australia doesn't get a beating.

Another chapter is devoted to the "SussexRoyal" website, or the loss of it more likely.

"Half In. Half Out" - a chapter arguing all the good things about this idea that the Royal machine wouldn't listen to?

Look out William - "Brothers Divided".

"Nesting in Windsor" - sounds like this might be a pleasant chapter. Maybe some photos/descriptions of Frogmore Cottage for me - I like property - to browse.

Bet "The Family Meeting" chapter spills some beans.

As the chapter titled "Boom!" comes along in the earlier part of the book, what could that be about?

Even a chapter about their short time in Toronto - a chapter about that? OK.

Going to be interesting when all this is available.

Awaiting more micro-details about what has been going on behind the scenes these last few years

Hope they have been able to include some private/personal photos.
"Boom" wasn't this the comment HM made in the video with Harry for the Obamas?
  #1397  
Old 08-10-2020, 07:45 AM
Helen.CH's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darius1 View Post
That's the big issue. Harry can never be just a private individual so whatever he says will always have reverberations and reflect on the Crown. I believe that he is well-intentioned but misguided and does a disservice to everything he should hold dear by making his public pronouncements, particularly coming from his position of unearned privilege.
If this couple does or goes on with leaking private things they should be cut off
financially (which I think is a good idea anyway)
They got enough to make a good living anyway.
  #1398  
Old 08-10-2020, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darius1 View Post
It was a fancy dress party where costume are often meant to ridicule whatever they represent. These costumes are available to this day online on many costume party providers website. Was this an inappropriate and distasteful choice for Prince Harry in 2005? Yes. Ill-advised? Yes. Intended as a slur or to be disrespectful to those that perished in the Shoah, certainly not.

I'm sure we all did and said things when we were 19/20 years old that we would no be proud of today. Fortunately we didn't have the press to blow these things out of proportion or look to interpret a deeper, more unsettling meaning.
I don’t care what kind of party it was. A 19 year old person should know better!
You are literally excusing him wearing a Nazi outfit!!

I’m well aware they are available, does not make it right. And even worse when someone chooses to wear it.


I never wore a swastika or did blackface it anything that stupid!
Because I was knew it was wrong!

Please tell me you aren’t Jewish? Because i can not imagine any Jew excusing this! Especially not ones who lost family in the Holocaust.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilyflo View Post
I'm not defending Harry here because in his position he should not have worn that costume but he wasn't alone in wearing Nazi costumes to fancy-dress parties. I know that because back in the 90s friends of mine had a costume business and used to hire out various ranks of Nazi uniforms. It might have been acceptable to dress like this for a joke because in the 80s we had a very popular TV programme here called 'Allo Allo', which made fun of everyone ie Nazis, French resistance, British airmen etc. It was repeated for years afterwards and we've had other war themed programmes that made fun of Nazis. I also recall a WW2 theme party I held years ago and some guests dressed as Nazi officers (one as the Gestapo character from the TV prog). Two of my uncles (who had both fought in the war) were there and thought it was hilarious. Looking back now, I can see how offensive it might have appeared but I can honestly say we just thought of it as 'dressing up as the enemy'.
Just because everyone else does it, does not mean you should too.

Ther dis a different between saying a joke to dressing up as one, even as a joke.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Agree, there is a considerable degree between dressing up in a Nazi costume and showing sympathy for a Nazi ideology.
For a young royal it would usually be ill-advised and in poor taste to dress up as a Nazi, but IMO also forgivable as one of the thoughtless mistakes we all make in our lives, not least when young.
There is no degree. Nazi outfit does not change it’s meaning, the symbols remain the same. is a Nazi outfit is a Nazi outfit.
It is the equivalent of blackface to a Jewish person!

19 is old enough to know it is wrong. This was not done 85 years ago (like the queen picture saluting, done when the U.K. was just realizing the dangers of Nazi germany), this is done at a time where people knew full well what the Nazi’s and their symbols stand for.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
People dressing up as "funny/crazy Hitler" for fancy dress parties was once fairly common although much less so now or even then. The entire theme of the party was something like colonial era Africa, which also got criticism for obvious reasons and questions about why he picked the Afrika Korps out of that very broad direction. IIRC it happened quite near a holocaust memorial anniversary which the organisers said at least it's given everyone a chance to discuss why they consider it inappropriate even if it's in fun and not in support. Though the other things including the use of slurs that came to light ended up forever including this in the old "PH is a racist" argument more than it would have done if this was the only time it happened.

But he could use even that (and the other less excusable public instances) of how he came to realise even things he did that were meant to be harmless and fun or were thoughtless/ill advised but not malicious could affect people and propagate negative stereotypes etc and how he grew beyond his privileged bubble. IF he has actually done so. That would definitely be more interesting and more palatable than the word salad and lecturing from on high or the "everyone else was the problem" that this book takes.
There is no excuse to wearing a Nazi outfit.



Unless any of you are jewish, you do not get to tell a Jewish person someone wearing a Nazi outfit is not anti Semitic, and that “it is excusably” when they are telling you it is not.

It is exactly like blackface!
Not “if’s” or “but’s”
No excuses.

I am utterly shocked at the blasť responds and excuses being used by memebrs here to an actual Jew telling you this is wrong.

Would you say the same thing if it came up that Harry raped a few women in his youth?
Would you simply say “oh well he didn’t mean it, he was young and “boys will be boys””?!
No. Because as (mostly) women you know rape is wrong, and there is no excuse for it, not even young age.


So, listen to me (and betsy), a granddaughter of 6!! Holocaust survivors!:
THERE IS NO EXCUSE.
His age is not an excuse.
The theme of the party is not an excuse. Many others seemed able to realize wearing such an outfit is wrong.


And if you are all so inclined, I can share with you the stories I grew up on from my grandparents.
How one jumped off a moving train headed to Trablinka, where her parents and 6 year old brother were gassed to death. How while living in the Warsaw she escaped out and back in with food for her family, because she looked like the model Aryan.
How one fled with her family to Russia living in the freeze of Siberia for 5 before being allowed back into Poland.
How one spend time in Lodez Ghetto, and ended up terrified of dogs! Because he was attacked by Nazi with dogs.

And those are easy to hear stories.

I hope the mods would not edit my comment, and I do hope they won’t put me on time out for this comment! Because i can not sit back and shut up about this.
  #1399  
Old 08-10-2020, 09:12 AM
Aristocracy
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARG View Post
What a boy does is only foolish.william was with him when they chose their "costumes" and he didn't see a problem. It was after all a private party. Now if Harry had chosen that costume as a man, I'd be worried.

He was 20 years old, he was hardly a boy, He really should know better considering his own family history. As for William "didn't see a problem", maybe he did and talked about it with Harry, but Harry wouldn't listen to him.
  #1400  
Old 08-10-2020, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARG View Post
What a boy does is only foolish.william was with him when they chose their "costumes" and he didn't see a problem. It was after all a private party. Now if Harry had chosen that costume as a man, I'd be worried.
Harry was hardly a boy - he was old enough to know better.

I have to say that Iím beyond disappointed that so many are excusing Harryís actions. I wonít say more because Iíll get in trouble.
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