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  #1321  
Old 08-09-2020, 02:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Harry and Meghan DID live together before "doing anything else". I hardly see why Harry would have taken offense at such advice from a friend.
They only lived together after becoming engaged.

I think Tom said exactly what many of us have said at the time of the engagement: you had a long distance relationship, you are part of a way of life foreign to this woman, why not take time to live in the same country, let alone house, for a year or two, before rushing down the aisle. Give everyone, mainly her and you time to adjust.

Maybe take the time to be 100% sure she is the one and that you are not being taken advantage of (okay maybe Tom didn’t say that last bit- not so bluntly perhaps, but I would have)


So this is what number oerson who adviced Harry about taking it slow with Meghan?
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  #1322  
Old 08-09-2020, 02:55 AM
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The couple lived together from November 1917 to May 2018, plenty of time to know whether you are compatible together and are on the same page. And on a personal level (I doubt that Skip was thinking of Meghan fitting into the Royal Family when he made the comment (if he did) Harry and Meghan are still together over four years since they first met.

This was all discussed in the Forum at the time and many reasons were put forward, including being different people from the Cambridges (eight years wait)
Meghan's age (both wanting a family) and many agreed that quite a few people marry within two years of meeting and stay together.
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  #1323  
Old 08-09-2020, 03:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ok-claims.html

Tom 'Skippy' Inskip expressed reservations about Meghan Markle to the Prince. He suggested they should live together before 'doing anything more serious'. Mr Inskip and wife Lara were reportedly 'punished' by being excluded from couple's wedding party at Frogmore House
Assuming this is true - or at least contain a good deal of truth, since Harry's childhood friend was not among the guests at the wedding - it sure is a peculiar way to treat a childhood friend!
If Tom Inskip (and his wife) was left with the impression that not being invited to the wedding was a direct consequence of his advise regarding marrying too soon, then it lends extra credence to the story about Harry falling out with his brother over the same issue.

It is also very disturbing IMO.
Even if you are totally in love I'd say a normal reaction would be to try and convince your brother or friend how totally wonderful your partner is, rather than de facto cutting them off. That's a very dramatic reaction!
Especially since royals don't have that many people they can trust completely.

To me that suggests an obsession with Meghan that is beyond reason, even sanity.
I mean, he has been in love before, right? And yet I do not recall Harry displaying this almost fanatic need to protect his ex's.

It's one thing to be in love, (that's temporary insanity which hopefully mature into genuine lifelong love) but obsession is an entirely different issue. If this indeed is the case.
Because what happens when Harry wakes up one day, realizing Meghan is not the center of the universe?
Or alternatively Meghan finds this all-consuming love from her husband is something she feels she can't live up to - or live with?

This book is raising more questions than answers!
  #1324  
Old 08-09-2020, 03:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Grousewood View Post
It seems to me that they have burned their bridges and can't come back. They have become outwardly political and have now spoken out about the family. They may be welcome as family members, always loved and always forgiven, but forget their returning to royal work.
I dont know. I think that they are quite capable if the money earning side of things doesn't work out in the next year, of deciding that they have to go back to the UK
And if Charles were to say to them "If you come back, I'll keep on funding you but you will have to settle down and work and keep within the restrictions of the job, no political statements, no private working for money etc etc" and they would agree to do that. After all, if they find they can't make money in the USA, is Tyler Going to let them have his house indefinitely? They may feel they don't have much choice - that they have to come back and settle into whatever life they are offered here. but I'm not sure they will stick by their side of the bargain.
  #1325  
Old 08-09-2020, 04:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I dont know. I think that they are quite capable if the money earning side of things doesn't work out in the next year, of deciding that they have to go back to the UK
And if Charles were to say to them "If you come back, I'll keep on funding you but you will have to settle down and work and keep within the restrictions of the job, no political statements, no private working for money etc etc" and they would agree to do that. After all, if they find they can't make money in the USA, is Tyler Going to let them have his house indefinitely? They may feel they don't have much choice - that they have to come back and settle into whatever life they are offered here. but I'm not sure they will stick by their side of the bargain.
I think it may very well come to that. The Sussexes haven't been able to exploit themselves as much on the International speaking circuit as I imagine they thought they would due to the pandemic, and the longer this lasts the less interesting and sought after they become. Their premium will fall, and consequently their income. However, I envisage much public hand-wringing on the Duchess's part if she felt she was being effectively "gagged" in returning to the UK. As a pair they are a liability waiting to happen for the BRF need to be brought back into orbit and control.
  #1326  
Old 08-09-2020, 04:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Darius1 View Post
I think it may very well come to that. The Sussexes haven't been able to exploit themselves as much on the International speaking circuit as I imagine they thought they would due to the pandemic, and the longer this lasts the less interesting and sought after they become. Their premium will fall, and consequently their income. However, I envisage much public hand-wringing on the Duchess's part if she felt she was being effectively "gagged" in returning to the UK. As a pair they are a liability waiting to happen for the BRF need to be brought back into orbit and control.
Or they could just be cut loose and left to manage their own lives. I suspect that Meghan would come back, and then as you say there would be complaints that she hadn't wanted to and she was a strong woman being "gagged " by her royal role..
I think she is quite capable of doing that, and maybe in the end there would be a divorce and she would return to the US and have another third career as some kind of Fergie Mark 2.
Or possibly Charles might take them back with the provision that they DIDNT work, because he knows he cant control them... that they would be expected to lead a private life, maybe a few charities,
I dont think Meg would like that but I think she'll do what is necessary to keep what she has gained by the marriage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Harry and Meghan DID live together before "doing anything else". I hardly see why Harry would have taken offense at such advice from a friend.
They didn't. Until they got engaged they were living -one in Canada the other in the UK... Living together isn't necessarily much help but it can at least give people a chance to build a more solid relationship. However, Harry and Meg didn't live together till they were engaged. They had a long distance relationship which I dont think really gave them the best chances to get to know each tother and certainly didn't give Meg a chance to know the UK
And by the time they did live together, they were committed by then.
  #1327  
Old 08-09-2020, 04:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Or they could just be cut loose and left to manage their own lives. I suspect that Meghan would come back, and then as you say there would be complaints that she hadn't wanted to and she was a strong woman being "gagged " by her royal role..
I think she is quite capable of doing that, and maybe in the end there would be a divorce and she would return to the US and have another third career as some kind of Fergie Mark 2.
Or possibly Charles might take them back with the provision that they DIDNT work, because he knows he cant control them... that they would be expected to lead a private life, maybe a few charities,
I dont think Meg would like that but I think she'll do what is necessary to keep what she has gained by the marriage.
Cutting them loose is incredibly fraught with potential hazards. These are two very loose cannons with a lot of juicy tabloid value. Whatever Megan gained from the marriage she will keep. She will always be the mother of a grandchild of the future King, she will have gained insights to many of the secrets within the Royal establishment and she will always be able to peddle her status as a "royal" or former "royal". She has "made it" an in exceptional fashion. I feel sorry for Prince Harry. He seems to be increasingly isolated in a world that he really doesn't understand, without a role, and completely dependent on doing what his wife wants. There are so many psychological and emotional parallels to what we saw happen to the Duke of Windsor but, at least his Duchess didn't feel she had to have an opinion on everything!
  #1328  
Old 08-09-2020, 04:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darius1 View Post
Cutting them loose is incredibly fraught with potential hazards. These are two very loose cannons with a lot of juicy tabloid value. Whatever Megan gained from the marriage she will keep. She will always be the mother of a grandchild of the future King, she will have gained insights to many of the secrets within the Royal establishment and she will always be able to peddle her status as a "royal" or former "royal". She has "made it" an in exceptional fashion. I feel sorry for Prince Harry. He seems to be increasingly isolated in a world that he really doesn't understand, without a role, and completely dependent on doing what his wife wants. There are so many psychological and emotional parallels to what we saw happen to the Duke of Windsor but, at least his Duchess didn't feel she had to have an opinion on everything!
I would say that there is a gagging clause that they had to sign up to when they left. They can go political a bit if they want to but I'm sure they are debarred from talking about the RF...
I would say that Charles would be prepared still to give them the allowance that they had, ie around £2M, and if they cant manage on that, or earn more, I suppose they may have to come back.. I dot really think Ch will cut them loose but that's because H is his son.... and I suppose he can use giving them money (whether in the UK or US) to keep them under control. I think that Meg will moan a bit but she'll follow the money...
I think there are parallels with the Windsors indeed...and perhaps with the Yorks. Fergie too felt she couldn't abide by the rules of the RF and she left, believing she could get another rich husband.. but she couldn't. Meg has managed to leave but taking Harry with her.
I agree that perhaps Harry is in the same position as the DOW, that he's left his royal role which was all he knew for a life of exile.. He does seem dominated by Meghan and one wonders if he really wanted things to happen quite like this.. Or myabe he did but will he continue feeling like that for long?
  #1329  
Old 08-09-2020, 05:11 AM
Duke of Marmalade's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
The couple lived together from November 1917 to May 2018, plenty of time to know whether you are compatible together and are on the same page. And on a personal level (I doubt that Skip was thinking of Meghan fitting into the Royal Family when he made the comment (if he did) Harry and Meghan are still together over four years since they first met.

They did not live together before they made a commitment = engagement in November 2017. I think Harry was scared to lose another girlfriend who found out after some time that royal life was not for her. It happened anyway, only with the difference that he did not stay in royal life, either after being told that there is no middle ground in royalty.
  #1330  
Old 08-09-2020, 06:15 AM
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I think it's perfectly natural for any friend to suggest that a couple at least live on the same continent for a while before planning anything more serious. Whether or not he was concerned about the royal aspect or not. And whilst it's probably never what you want to hear in the honeymoon stages of a relationship, it is important.

Meghan (and Patrick J Adams who was also in a long distance relationship/marriage) told Suits producers in early 2017 that they would not be renewing for S8, a sign that they were already planning a serious commitment. They finished filming in August and if you believe this book there was a secret engagement right after on holiday. Even if it's not true there's a lot of difference between a long distance relationship and the nitty gritty of everyday life together. Especially if marriage comes with a really strange job in an alien culture.

She moved to the UK and 2-3 months later was the public announcement. Barely any time at all to adjust. Then they're off and planning the wedding with her awful relatives butting in every 5 minutes and all the other stress, then the marriage then tours, then baby, more tours then apparently already planning on leaving one way or the other first South Africa, then maybe Canada and now in LA, so many changes in 4 years. It feels exhausting just writing it. I think anyone might be concerned about so many changes.

The time they spent together pre engagement is roughly the same amount of time post marriage they spent as working royals. Maybe they could have figured out that's not what they wanted separately or as a couple without causing quite as much (public) chaos if they'd had more time before hand. Or at least not had quite so many changes so close together over the last few years.
  #1331  
Old 08-09-2020, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ok-claims.html

Tom 'Skippy' Inskip expressed reservations about Meghan Markle to the Prince. He suggested they should live together before 'doing anything more serious'. Mr Inskip and wife Lara were reportedly 'punished' by being excluded from couple's wedding party at Frogmore House
Harry’s tendency to cut his friends and family off if they express any concern about his relationship with Meghan is so disturbing. The below section from the article speaks volumes. Harry takes any advice given with the best of intentions personally, as an affront. His friend wasn’t doubting his judgment, but H took it that way. Despite their reconciliation, I don’t know how H maintains relationships with anyone- it seems you can’t talk to him without the threat of being cut off looming overhead.
Quote:
A source close to Duke and Duchess of Sussex told the book's authors that although his advice 'came from a good place,' Prince Harry 'didn’t totally see it that way', according to the Sunday Telegraph.

'It really hurt him that someone he was so close to would not trust his judgment,' added the source, who is believed to have spoken out with the permission of Harry and Meghan.

Muhler:

Quote:
To me that suggests an obsession with Meghan that is beyond reason, even sanity.
I mean, he has been in love before, right? And yet I do not recall Harry displaying this almost fanatic need to protect his ex's.
One of the published excerpts was about their first date, and it claimed that Harry was obsessed ...NOT exactly the basis for a healthy relationship.
  #1332  
Old 08-09-2020, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darius1 View Post
Cutting them loose is incredibly fraught with potential hazards. These are two very loose cannons with a lot of juicy tabloid value. Whatever Megan gained from the marriage she will keep. She will always be the mother of a grandchild of the future King, she will have gained insights to many of the secrets within the Royal establishment and she will always be able to peddle her status as a "royal" or former "royal". She has "made it" an in exceptional fashion. I feel sorry for Prince Harry. He seems to be increasingly isolated in a world that he really doesn't understand, without a role, and completely dependent on doing what his wife wants. There are so many psychological and emotional parallels to what we saw happen to the Duke of Windsor but, at least his Duchess didn't feel she had to have an opinion on everything!
Brilliant points, and you know Meghan would be the kind to kiss and tell; she absolutely strikes me as someone who would gleefully dish the dirt on the BRF.

I donít really feel sorry for Harry because heís brought this all on himself. I will say that I think the old Harry, the good man, is still inside, but heís completely lost his way. Who IS he? He seems more like Meghan than he does himself. It IS eerily reminiscent of the Duke and Duchess of Windsor, though it seems to me that Meghan plays up to Harryís need for her more than Wallis did for Edward (who just needed her even when she clearly didnít need him as much).
  #1333  
Old 08-09-2020, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskimo View Post
That is the problem- they have made it clear as day that it is A. Just in the last couple of months they have tried to jump on the "cause du Jour" without much thought and research put into their involvement. Their public pronouncements have been nothing but buzzword salads intended to get them positive PR.

With or without their involvement Finding Freedom was touted as getting their point of view across and from the serialization so far it is nothing more than an attempt to portray them as victims of everyone and anyone who did not agree with what they wanted.

In simple words- everything they do seems hollow with the sole purpose being getting them the media attention that they claim they do not want
I think this is a criticism the royal offices made of them. That they rushed in before researching and figuring out if an organisation was appropriate.
  #1334  
Old 08-09-2020, 07:26 AM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
Brilliant points, and you know Meghan would be the kind to kiss and tell; she absolutely strikes me as someone who would gleefully dish the dirt on the BRF.

I donít really feel sorry for Harry because heís brought this all on himself. I will say that I think the old Harry, the good man, is still inside, but heís completely lost his way. Who IS he? He seems more like Meghan than he does himself. It IS eerily reminiscent of the Duke and Duchess of Windsor, though it seems to me that Meghan plays up to Harryís need for her more than Wallis did for Edward (who just needed her even when she clearly didnít need him as much).
I dont know. I think that if Meg's paid to remain silent, she will. She may complain discreetly, and bits will leak out. She may in the end get fed up and go for a divorce and she'll head back to the US (hopefully times will be better in a few years) and she'll have some kind of business career like Fergie.
I agree that this Harry we see now, is an odd mixture. I think that perhaps ( I never was all that interested in him so only followed him sporadically) the public face of Harry up to a few years ago, the jolly good hearted but not bright guy, wasn't the real H.. who underneath it was sufferings from depression and anger issues...
and I suspect that if that's true, perhaps Harry began to "come out" about his depression and by opening it up, perhaps he's actually made things worse for himself. AND i think the salient point is that he began to look for some woman who could accept him as he was, as the mixed up rather angry unhappy man that he is.. and found Meg. SHE has given him permission to "emote" and talk about the depression and act up a bit...and has persuaded him that h'ell be happier if he "lets it all out" and takes up yoga and adopts a "Californian liberal Democrat" viewpoint on all sorts of issues..
But it just doesn't seem to me to be natural to Harry.. it comes across a bit like he's learned it to please Meg or "he hopes that this new POV and this new more openly emotional way of acting will both please Meg and make him happier..."

and to be honest, I suspect that as he gets older, he may revert to his own "type" esp if he gets a bit fed up with the US
  #1335  
Old 08-09-2020, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Harry and Meghan DID live together before "doing anything else". I hardly see why Harry would have taken offense at such advice from a friend.
Pretty much when they got engaged. I think the advice was meant give the living together a good go first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
The couple lived together from November 1917 to May 2018, plenty of time to know whether you are compatible together and are on the same page. And on a personal level (I doubt that Skip was thinking of Meghan fitting into the Royal Family when he made the comment (if he did) Harry and Meghan are still together over four years since they first met.

This was all discussed in the Forum at the time and many reasons were put forward, including being different people from the Cambridges (eight years wait)
Meghan's age (both wanting a family) and many agreed that quite a few people marry within two years of meeting and stay together.
You cannot be serious about that. That is no time which was comprised of the wedding organisation.
  #1336  
Old 08-09-2020, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
I think it's perfectly natural for any friend to suggest that a couple at least live on the same continent for a while before planning anything more serious. Whether or not he was concerned about the royal aspect or not. And whilst it's probably never what you want to hear in the honeymoon stages of a relationship, it is important.

Meghan (and Patrick J Adams who was also in a long distance relationship/marriage) told Suits producers in early 2017 that they would not be renewing for S8, a sign that they were already planning a serious commitment. They finished filming in August and if you believe this book there was a secret engagement right after on holiday. Even if it's not true there's a lot of difference between a long distance relationship and the nitty gritty of everyday life together. Especially if marriage comes with a really strange job in an alien culture.

She moved to the UK and 2-3 months later was the public announcement. Barely any time at all to adjust. Then they're off and planning the wedding with her awful relatives butting in every 5 minutes and all the other stress, then the marriage then tours, then baby, more tours then apparently already planning on leaving one way or the other first South Africa, then maybe Canada and now in LA, so many changes in 4 years. It feels exhausting just writing it. I think anyone might be concerned about so many changes.

The time they spent together pre engagement is roughly the same amount of time post marriage they spent as working royals. Maybe they could have figured out that's not what they wanted separately or as a couple without causing quite as much (public) chaos if they'd had more time before hand. Or at least not had quite so many changes so close together over the last few years.
Just a handful of corrections:
It is more likely that Patrick have is notice and from there Meghan role became redundant, I didnít watch suits, but it seems like her character was really nothing but his love interest.
But I think her exit was actually thought of before that, something that the show runners said that made me think they were working on writing her out once her contract ended, which for most shows of that low rating tends to be until season 7.


She moved to the U.K. in late Nov, a week later they announced the engagement.


(And as someone who exprienced so many similar changes in a short time span, moving states, countries, jobs, losing a furbaby... three years in since being back in my home country, iím only now starting to adjust, and covid has been a huge blessing about that actually!)
  #1337  
Old 08-09-2020, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
Harryís tendency to cut his friends and family off if they express any concern about his relationship with Meghan is so disturbing. The below section from the article speaks volumes. Harry takes any advice given with the best of intentions personally, as an affront. His friend wasnít doubting his judgment, but H took it that way. Despite their reconciliation, I donít know how H maintains relationships with anyone- it seems you canít talk to him without the threat of being cut off looming overhead.
Cutting-off seems to be Meghan's strategy as well; so it might have intensified. While some relationships might end up toxic/not worthy to maintain, the primary response should be to work things out (and as a person you will grow in the process) - cutting off/leaving should only be the ultimate solution if everything else failed. However, if this is quite often the solution someone ends up with, it's probably indicating that that person should work on themselves/harder to prevent that from happening that often.
  #1338  
Old 08-09-2020, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
Harryís tendency to cut his friends and family off if they express any concern about his relationship with Meghan is so disturbing. The below section from the article speaks volumes. Harry takes any advice given with the best of intentions personally, as an affront. His friend wasnít doubting his judgment, but H took it that way. Despite their reconciliation, I donít know how H maintains relationships with anyone- it seems you canít talk to him without the threat of being cut off looming overhead.
Harry hardly seems recognizable any more.
I always viewed him as a lightweight intellectually, yet a happy-go-lucky type who would always enjoy life.

Now I wonder how I could have been so wrong! He seems a mass of issues, angry and opinionated.

I don't want to put it all on Meghan; Harry didn't change overnight, and he is responsible for his own actions.
  #1339  
Old 08-09-2020, 07:49 AM
Majesty
 
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Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
Harry hardly seems recognizable any more.
I always viewed him as a lightweight intellectually, yet a happy-go-lucky type who would always enjoy life.

Now I wonder how I could have been so wrong! He seems a mass of issues, angry and opinionated.

I don't want to put it all on Meghan; Harry didn't change overnight, and he is responsible for his own actions.
I suspect that he always Was a mess underneath.. but i think the ideas he has nowadays are all Meg's...
I thought that (over the years of living here i the UK and being a Diana watcher) i started out with the idea that both H and Will were rather upper class brats, who needed a bit of firm discipline and Charles was too busy or too soft to give it to them as kids. Will gradually grew out of it Harry seemed to be rather worse.. but then he got into the army and it was good for hm. I began to like him, thought he was a good soldier and would stay in the army a long time and do well...
Then a few years ago, I did watch him a bit when he started royal duties and I had the feeling that he was too anxious to be liked.... He seemed to be giving a performance as Harry, sincere in a way but a bit too much of "Look at me, I'm working my socks off, I'm a really good guy, please please, notice me and Like me."
And I am still of that mind.. that he is a bit of a mess under the Jolly Harry faÁade and he is trying so hard to be relevant, to be liked.. and to keep his wife on side...
I think that now, the performance has elements of "Im a really nice guy, not a bit snobbish, working hard.. AND I am also well up on politics and know how to put the world to rights." (Ie not like those old fossils in London... including my brother)....
  #1340  
Old 08-09-2020, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evolvingdoors View Post
Just a handful of corrections:
It is more likely that Patrick have is notice and from there Meghan role became redundant, I didnít watch suits, but it seems like her character was really nothing but his love interest.
But I think her exit was actually thought of before that, something that the show runners said that made me think they were working on writing her out once her contract ended, which for most shows of that low rating tends to be until season 7.
No, I don't think that is a more likely scenario at all. Meghan's character was more than just his love interest; she was part of the office crew. It could very well be the other way around. Patrick knew that Meghan didn't want to renew and figured it would be the right moment for him to quit as well. Or, another likely one, Patrick and Meghan discussed this with each other (and other actors/producers) and each one agreed that it would be the right moment for both of them to quit - and the producers decided to finally get them married and ensure a happy ending for both of them.

So, all in all, I'm convinced that if either Meghan or Patrick had wanted to continue the producers would have made that work but both of them quitting at the same time was also an option they could work with.
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