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  #741  
Old 07-28-2020, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
The remark which Sun Lion quoted didn't even come from this book but from the book about the Sussexes by Lady Colin Campbell which was released early this month. I borrowed it from friends the day it was published, read it, quoted it on another thread and now it appears on this thread as if it was something that actually occurred!

It involved Harry going into the Queen to ask permission to wed, and being rude to her by immediately snapping that he was going to marry Meghan anyway and if she didn't like it then 'she could suck it up', the expression used. If Harry and his grandmother were alone during this conversation (which was then repeated by an unnamed 'Royal Prince' ) then how Lady C came to know of it is a mystery!

Lady C's book was riven with errors and obviously made-up scenarios, several of which I and others posted, just like her other books, and those posters on the other thread agreed that the scene of Harry and his grandmother she produced was fiction. Now apparently it's fact, and quoted! What was more she was terribly biased, in the other direction, but apparently was believed by Sun Lion.

Just as the pieces from the Times (via the tabloid press) quoted from the Scobie book are apparently regarded as a Sussex autobiography on this thread.

I have pre-ordered 'Finding Freedom' for August 11th. I intend to read it and then hope to come here and post some more that hasn't yet been seen from this particular book. I don't believe myself that you can get a full impression of a book's subject(s) unless you've read a few biographies of the people involved.
"Actually, that was something I posted on the thread about Lady C's book, which I borrowed the day it came out. It was an example of how far-fetched the entire thing is, not an anecdote that was meant to be taken seriously. I'm guessing Sun Lion saw it there, and mistook it for something from a credible source."

... Fixed it.
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  #742  
Old 07-28-2020, 09:56 PM
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I donít think the problem is that Harry doesnít understand his place in the monarchy. Harry had gotten used to the enhanced autonomy that he had when he and William were operating the foundation and their own press shop. But they were only allowed to operate an independent press office because of Williamís status as the future king-not because they were both sons of the POW. While they were partners. I canít believe that William treated Harry as any less than an equal and Harry wanted that to continue. Unfortunately for Harry, when the foundation broke up, he wasnít allowed to have his own PR and that has obviously upset both him and Meghan. I think Harry is being a bit petulant but I know it can be hard for anyone to give up independence once they have it. Itís also possible that the palace could have been more sensitive to Harryís frustration at the lack of authority.

When Charles ascends the throne, Harry will probably receive more freedom than Charlesís siblings. We know that Charles has been reluctant to say no to either of his sons. But even then, I donít think Harry will ever again have the same autonomy he had during his partnership with William.

Itís also obvious that Harry doesnít think that William and Kate made the same effort to incorporate Meghan into their trusted circle as he did with Kate. In the past, I think it is clear that Harry and William were the most important people in each otherís lives for a long time. But now, William has Kate and the Middletons. Unfortunately, until he met Meghan, Harry struggled to find similar support. Thankfully, Harry and Kate meshed well which enabled the three of them to form a solid relationship. It also helped that they were neighbors, worked together on the foundation and shared the all-important press office.

When he got married Harry truly expected that they would become the ďFab Four.Ē We donít know why that didnít happen but I donít buy that it is all Meghanís fault. William and Kate arenít perfect. But the truth is most likely that it was no oneís fault. Perhaps William and Kate didnít work as hard as they could have on the relationship, but Harry is being too insensitive to their feelings. William and Kate are in a different place in their lives than Harry was when William and Kate married. All three were younger, with more energy and time. Itís a lot easier to bring new people in your life when you donít have three kids.

All that said, Harry and Meghan should never have publicly aired their grievances Ė and I think it is obvious that even if they did not formally give an interview, they knowingly gave the author access. However, I am confident that the rift will be healed and probably soon. Charles actively collaborated with the Dimbleby book, which was very critical of the Queen and Prince Philip as parents. Similarly, both William and Harry have given interviews that, while not overtly critical of Charles, were interpreted in ways that put Charles in a negative light. The family managed to work through all those issues and even spent holidays together and I believe they will get through this, too.
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  #743  
Old 07-28-2020, 09:58 PM
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yes, they are irrelevant, as I said yesterday. Thousands of people who lost jobs who have DISAPPEARED, they can't or anyone else can go back to them. And these two incredibly spoiled, self centered attention seekers thinking people didn't treat them the way they liked. Meanwhile, they let down their family and are shocked! that they are shot by papparazi in their borrowed houses. Duties yes, but the royal life would have offered a lot more protection. I do blame Megan for not realizing the system and thinking she knew better. I give them another year at most.
  #744  
Old 07-28-2020, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poppy7 View Post
It's not. It's that it was confirmed. It never turned out to be true before.
Iím rolling my eyes at Katie, who I normally like...

I totally disagree with her about this book damaging the monarchy; if anything, it damages Harry and Meghan. What it does is hurt the very real human beings who love Harry...
  #745  
Old 07-28-2020, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duchessrachel View Post
I missed reading about this remark to the Queen. Will you elaborate on it?

I'll put some info about this anecdote in the thread for the "Meghan and Harry: The Real Story" book duchessrachel.

It happened after The Duke of Edinburgh tried to speak with Prince Harry and that backfired, and the Queen intervened, which also backfired.
  #746  
Old 07-28-2020, 10:47 PM
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That is, according to Lady Colin Campbell, those incidents occured.
  #747  
Old 07-28-2020, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post

All that said, Harry and Meghan should never have publicly aired their grievances Ė and I think it is obvious that even if they did not formally give an interview, they knowingly gave the author access. However, I am confident that the rift will be healed and probably soon. Charles actively collaborated with the Dimbleby book, which was very critical of the Queen and Prince Philip as parents. Similarly, both William and Harry have given interviews that, while not overtly critical of Charles, were interpreted in ways that put Charles in a negative light. The family managed to work through all those issues and even spent holidays together and I believe they will get through this, too.
Thatís a good point about Charles and his parents. He was wounded by his childhood, and he took those hurt feelings public, which in turn hurt HM and Philip. I donít know how they eventually reconciled, but they seem to be on really wonderful terms. I have to believe that at some point they sat down and talked, heard each otherís points of view...and very likely just made sure they all knew that they loved each other, which ultimately is the most important thing. That is what is needed now. I think Harry and Charles will be fine, but it will take a lot longer for the brothers to heal their rift (though Iím sure they will.
  #748  
Old 07-28-2020, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
e.

All that said, Harry and Meghan should never have publicly aired their grievances Ė and I think it is obvious that even if they did not formally give an interview, they knowingly gave the author access. However, I am confident that the rift will be healed and probably soon. Charles actively collaborated with the Dimbleby book, which was very critical of the Queen and Prince Philip as parents. Similarly, both William and Harry have given interviews that, while not overtly critical of Charles, were interpreted in ways that put Charles in a negative light. The family managed to work through all those issues and even spent holidays together and I believe they will get through this, too.
I don't know. I always felt William was more like Philip in terms of his ability to forgive people. Even Fergie has admitted that William hasn't spoken to her since before Diana died, very similar to Philip's shunning of Fergie. I remember at his wedding in 2011, when he passed the Spencer section he exchanged greetings with his two aunts but blanked Earl Spencer.

So I wouldn't be surprised if he never spoke to Meghan again. Harry he might eventually have a casual relationship with, never again chummy, but they'll be able to converse when the circumstances bring them in the same room.

Just like Philip avoids Fergie, Harry and William can avoid each other for the most part. Go to Balmoral at different times, which should be easy as Harry seems to prefer vacationing overseas in August instead of Balmoral. Then at Christmas the Sussexes can stay at Sandringham House while the Cambridges are at Anmer. And the rest of the year, Harry will likely be in LA, so very easy to avoid each other there.
  #749  
Old 07-28-2020, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by miss whirley View Post
I don't know. I always felt William was more like Philip in terms of his ability to forgive people. Even Fergie has admitted that William hasn't spoken to her since before Diana died, very similar to Philip's shunning of Fergie. I remember at his wedding in 2011, when he passed the Spencer section he exchanged greetings with his two aunts but blanked Earl Spencer.

So I wouldn't be surprised if he never spoke to Meghan again. Harry he might eventually have a casual relationship with, never again chummy, but they'll be able to converse when the circumstances bring them in the same room.

Just like Philip avoids Fergie, Harry and William can avoid each other for the most part. Go to Balmoral at different times, which should be easy as Harry seems to prefer vacationing overseas in August instead of Balmoral. Then at Christmas the Sussexes can stay at Sandringham House while the Cambridges are at Anmer. And the rest of the year, Harry will likely be in LA, so very easy to avoid each other there.
I think youíre giving up too easily on William and Harry...and, honestly, they shouldnít ever jump through those kinds of hoops to avoid each other. I realize that many siblings donít get along and donít have relationships with each other, but those are extreme cases. Charles is not going to just allow his sons to give up on their brotherhood like that. Of course he canít force them to ever become close again, but he sure isnít going to enable their disfunction...Harry will be in LA most of the time, so it wonít really matter.
  #750  
Old 07-28-2020, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miss whirley View Post
I don't know. I always felt William was more like Philip in terms of his ability to forgive people. Even Fergie has admitted that William hasn't spoken to her since before Diana died, very similar to Philip's shunning of Fergie. I remember at his wedding in 2011, when he passed the Spencer section he exchanged greetings with his two aunts but blanked Earl Spencer.

So I wouldn't be surprised if he never spoke to Meghan again. Harry he might eventually have a casual relationship with, never again chummy, but they'll be able to converse when the circumstances bring them in the same room.

Just like Philip avoids Fergie, Harry and William can avoid each other for the most part. Go to Balmoral at different times, which should be easy as Harry seems to prefer vacationing overseas in August instead of Balmoral. Then at Christmas the Sussexes can stay at Sandringham House while the Cambridges are at Anmer. And the rest of the year, Harry will likely be in LA, so very easy to avoid each other there.
As you say it is your feeling, which is ok. But honestly I can understand everybody who distances to Fergie. She simply can't behave still until now in her sixties and how old was William when she ruined her marriage by having her toes sucked in public? plus the fact she had given this interview saying bad things about Diana, it was only after her death when Fergie realized making herself Diana's best friend again might make money for her. IMO Meghan's permanent search for attention and spotlight is similar to Fergie's way of putting herself back in the spotlight always though Meghan's behaviour has since been better than Fergie's but Meghan is now still married.
  #751  
Old 07-29-2020, 01:21 AM
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I like the article, but I have to wonder how Charles doesn't rate a mention, lol.

In any case, I love the idea that the BRF is moving on, doing their thing, not letting the book send them into tizzies....

Quote:
Yet as The Firm's major shareholders take stock of the fallout from the serialisation of "Finding Freedom", a sympathetic biography of Harry and Meghan seemingly written with their blessing (something the couple have denied), the mood in the gilt-edged corridors of royal power appears surprisingly relaxed.

Although there have been several conference calls among advisers over the weekend, the Queen, Prince Charles and the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge are understood to have barely registered a reaction to the much-hyped book by Omid Scobie and Carolyn Durand, apparently viewing the already familiar "revelations" as yesterday's news.
Quote:
Although the Royal brothers have remained in touch during the lockdown, insiders admit they are nowhere near as close as they used to be. It is unlikely William will be best pleased with the "Finding Freedom" suggestion that his innately shy wife was not welcoming enough towards Meghan, failing to "check in on her during the most difficult times with the press".

Friends point out the introverted Duchess's natural lack of effusiveness was never intended to appear cold and was largely down to her preoccupation with a newborn, a toddler and a son and heir just about to start primary school.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-fa...ever-appeared/
  #752  
Old 07-29-2020, 02:39 AM
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Thanks to those who clarified a comment that the duke of Sussex supposedly made, which was used in this thread. Now it is clear this comment comes from the mind of Lady Collin Campbell it is time to move on.

I have asked several times NOT to take the rich phantasy of LCC literally and to show some common sense. The author is known to be very unreliable. We should not pretend that her anecdotes actually happened. There is no reason to assume that they did.

Those who are interested in posting about the phantasies of Lady Colin Campbell can do so in the thread about her book.

Several posts about the book 'Royals at War' have been moved to the appropriate thread.

This thread is about 'Finding Freedom' by Carolyn Durand and Omid Scobie. Please stay on topic.
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  #753  
Old 07-29-2020, 03:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilyflo View Post
At which point was William 'sneering' at Meghan? We've heard that he cautioned Harry to take his time to get to know her, which apparently annoyed Harry and caused him to think William was being a snob about it. That's far from 'sneering' at Meghan personally and if William was welcoming once Harry had committed, I don't see any reason at all to disbelieve that.
Harry interpreted it as sneering and being snobbish. I don't think he was, but thats how Harry saw it.. Then when they got engaged, he was saying basically that Will and Kate were all affectionate and friendly.. Now, in recent months since things have gone south, it seems that Harry's reverted to the original feeling that his family weren't friendly to his new girlfriend. I find Harry's swings around to be bewildering.. and hard to understand...

It seems to me that he isn't very good at interpreting things because he flies off teh handle emotionally... If the remark about "going slow" with Meghan was made, it was probably in terms of Will being worried that his younger brother was rushing things, that he didn't know Meg that well, that they could not see each other all that often, and that she was from a different land etc .. and that he should take his time.. But H chose to see it as Will being snobbish and not being willing to be fair to Meghan.. However when they got engaged, Harry had banished this thought because he wanted to tell the world that the RF really really loved his lady.. which probably wasn't true either.
I would guess that the RF who had met Meg were Ok with her, some probably liked her and they were willing to get to know her better and give her a fair chance. Maybe a few weren't all that keen but were polite. But then, Harry was in this state of being so happy that he was engaged that he wanted to see it as "they all adore her" and "she's so much happier with them than with her own family..." that he just HAD to go on about how much they all loved her...
  #754  
Old 07-29-2020, 03:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
Thanks to those who clarified a comment that the duke of Sussex supposedly made, which was used in this thread. Now it is clear this comment comes from the mind of Lady Collin Campbell it is time to move on.

I have asked several times NOT to take the rich phantasy of LCC literally and to show some common sense. The author is known to be very unreliable. We should not pretend that her anecdotes actually happened. There is no reason to assume that they did.

Those who are interested in posting about the phantasies of Lady Colin Campbell can do so in the thread about her book.

Several posts about the book 'Royals at War' have been moved to the appropriate thread.

This thread is about 'Finding Freedom' by Carolyn Durand and Omid Scobie. Please stay on topic.


No problem Marengo.

I don’t favour any book, source, reporter, media outlet etc. over any other, so my understanding of the Sussex situation is made up from many places.

Having said that, this book “Finding Freedom” has been the most interesting and the most informative for me. A real eye-opener.

And this thread has been a great place to explore this whole “Megxit” situation. I’ve really enjoyed so many views and perspectives since the excerpts came out, so thanks to all the posters who’ve shared their ideas.
  #755  
Old 07-29-2020, 03:55 AM
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I think there's a worrying blurring between fact and fiction at the moment. I know that The Crown 's been generally respectful towards the Royals, but is it really OK to have a soap opera type drama about people who are still alive? The Mrs America series which is being shown in the UK at the moment is all about real people who were prominent in the 1970s, and those who are still alive, and the relatives of those who've died, have said that it's not accurate. Margaret Thatcher's family weren't happy with how she was portrayed in the Helen Mirren film. And The Plot Against America , which is also being shown here at the moment, is showing Charles Lindbergh as a pro-Nazi president in an alternative universe ... and I've an idea that someone wrote a similar story showing the Duke of Windsor as a pro-Nazi king in an alternative universe.


It's quite a worrying trend - these are real people, not characters in stories. Authors should not be making up scenes just because they sound dramatic in books.
  #756  
Old 07-29-2020, 04:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
I think there's a worrying blurring between fact and fiction at the moment. I know that The Crown 's been generally respectful towards the Royals, but is it really OK to have a soap opera type drama about people who are still alive? The Mrs America series which is being shown in the UK at the moment is all about real people who were prominent in the 1970s, and those who are still alive, and the relatives of those who've died, have said that it's not accurate. Margaret Thatcher's family weren't happy with how she was portrayed in the Helen Mirren film. And The Plot Against America , which is also being shown here at the moment, is showing Charles Lindbergh as a pro-Nazi president in an alternative universe ... and I've an idea that someone wrote a similar story showing the Duke of Windsor as a pro-Nazi king in an alternative universe.


It's quite a worrying trend - these are real people, not characters in stories. Authors should not be making up scenes just because they sound dramatic in books.
what is wrong with Alternative history? Its a genre, and people know that it is ALTERNATIVE and not what really happened. We know that Lindbegh didn't become preisdent... People should use historical fiction and dramatizations as a starting point, rather than as history...
  #757  
Old 07-29-2020, 04:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
I didn't say that anyone made a statement. Tabloids printed numerous stories after Meghan joined the royals that staff at both BP and KP found her difficult to work for.

After extracts of Finding Freedom were published the tabloids that had published these previous stories of sneers about 'Duchess Difficult' and reports of pushiness and American ways and nicknames for her (leaks of which were printed at the time as coming from these KP/BP staff) went back to their sources in the Palaces and there were denials that the staff had done or said anything demeaning or wrong about Meghan. So someone is lying somewhere!
They didn't. And I think what is said is the truth. That she is culturally different and didn't want to town the line. They may not have called her those words. There is nothing there that hasn't been said before. The Sussexes were leaking.
  #758  
Old 07-29-2020, 04:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
I think youíre giving up too easily on William and Harry...and, honestly, they shouldnít ever jump through those kinds of hoops to avoid each other. I realize that many siblings donít get along and donít have relationships with each other, but those are extreme cases. Charles is not going to just allow his sons to give up on their brotherhood like that. Of course he canít force them to ever become close again, but he sure isnít going to enable their disfunction...Harry will be in LA most of the time, so it wonít really matter.
I think a lot more siblings don't get on that well than you'd hope... (Im an only child).. and while there are families where they are very close and loving there are a lto that aren't. Just usually they tolerate each other when they have to and dont go public on it.
Also we dont really know where Harry may end up. He may stay in the US but if the marriage doesn't last, I'd say he'll come back at least part time to Engalnd.
  #759  
Old 07-29-2020, 04:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
what is wrong with Alternative history? Its a genre, and people know that it is ALTERNATIVE and not what really happened. We know that Lindbegh didn't become preisdent... People should use historical fiction and dramatizations as a starting point, rather than as history...
Yeah, it is a genre - and perhaps, if in a certain way received by the audiance, it is also fake news - you know, "I've seen it on TV"...

I have once seen this actor on TV, long ago, who claimed, people are quite often hostile towards him, because since he was mainly playing rogue characters, they thought, he were a rogue in real life too.

On the other hand: In the Ukraine had this small comedian a tv-series, in which he played an honest, untouchable President - He is now President of Ukraine...
  #760  
Old 07-29-2020, 04:55 AM
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I can't help wondering, why so many people choose to take 'Finding Freedom' or the Fail as gospel; I fail yet to see where the book is more than an assamblage of stories we allready read in the gossip press.



Even as we know today that the Morton/Diana book was written with the help of Diana, still what it is IN the book is in large parts a twisted version of 'THE truth'. (Whatever TRUTH is ) Their are allways more than one way open to interpretation of what happend.


So, even IF the book IS written with the envolvement of the Sussex, it is still only
a) their version of what happend and b) their interpretation of what they choose to see in it (snubs, slights, rassism etc).


I'm giving you an example out of my world: here in Europe we do have much less racisme than you seem to have in the US, as we have another history - or non history with it. What we do have instead is a lot of class distincion (very strong in England for example). I'm very much a snob about poorly educated people, or people with a less broad mind, or less intelligent, or people not interested in a whole lot of things etc. I'm also very snobbish about showy people.


I had some problems at the start to understand why Meghan was/is considered 'black'. Same with people classed as 'Hispanic' .. we don't class them that way in Europ - they are just Europeans - form the Mediterranean zone. As we have Scandinaviens or middle Europeans. But nothing to do with their 'value' as such. 'Caucasian' is NOTHING we use - it's an american concept.



I don't understand why people in the states are prone to class mixed race persons as black, even when their are much more white then black in their heritage - as Meghan is.



I think Meghan, as a US-Person sees things through her 'rassist'-concept eyes, and sees slightes based on race, where are non at all.
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