Finding Freedom: Harry and Meghan and the Making of A Modern Royal Family

[Mbruno]

I think the book burns all bridges. The Sussex title will be removed, heck they may not ever go back to London and just imagine when William takes the throne later in life. I feel bad for Archie. He's growing up without his cousins and the other half of his family. He'll be wondering why his cousins are Prince, Princesses and he's not, and he won't have any relationship with them.

[...]

This has been discussed before, but the Sussex title cannot be removed other than by an act of Parliament. I doubt the British government would sponsor a bill to do it.

Harry's title of Prince and the style of HRH can be removed, but I don't think the Queen would do it. I am afraid Archie won't be a prince though when Charles is King, but that is not entirely new as there is already a precedent with James Severn and Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor.


Archie will probably be a duke one day, but the title won't be of much use to him if he grows up and lives in America, which is pretty much a given IMHO.

 

[Denville]

But the book implies racism towards the Royal family. That one quote is quite damning and it seems Harry/Meghan are upset so they want to harm Kate & William. The comment where Harry claims "William is a snob" for telling his brother not to rush into a marriage um it's likely because he saw they were moving fast and he/Kate have 10 years of history before getting married. Then they complained they didn't get the best royal events umm okay you're sixth in line Harry. You're behind the Queen, Charles, Camila Kate and William. Heck he's now even further down because of William's kids. I will say Meghan was jealous of Kate and she didn't like the how the RF works and she hated standing behind Kate. There's a lot of photos of her unhappy.

I think the book burns all bridges. The Sussex title will be removed, heck they may not ever go back to London and just imagine when William takes the throne later in life. I feel bad for Archie. He's growing up without his cousins and the other half of his family. He'll be wondering why his cousins are Prince, Princesses and he's not, and he won't have any relationship with them.

[...]

Its most unlikely that the "Sussex title" will be removed. That has to be done by Parliament and they have other concerns right now. And the queen has not removed Andrews HRH SO its unlikely that she would remove Harry's..
As for Meghan, I cant say I've seen her looking unhappy though I think she was... A lot of the times when H is looking cross or depressed Meg is smiling away gamely...

 

[Heavs]

If at all true the latest bit about the tiara reflects badly on both of them though obviously much worse on Harry on all fronts, especially being nasty to a woman who isn't even his member of staff and has 1001 and one things to oversee. However it also it says "Meghan demanded access to the tiara" which isn't great if it isn't yours to begin with. It appears to be a sequel to the original "choosing the tiara" uproar which is talked about in the book and also Dan Wooten is standing by his version of events for whatever it's worth.

They won't have their titles removed, though they might get reminded from time to time about using them in commercial contexts. It seems that the BRF isn't exactly happy with the book as this is not the first piece firing back a bit, but we have no way of really knowing how they feel. This isn't the first attempted hit piece or very slanted POV and won't be the last.

 

[Duchess_Watcher]

If the Queen wants it removed, she will get it removed and the Parliament will follow. The difference between Prince Andrew is that he isn't attacking the other members of his family as they are. The book clearly comes from them or someone they told this information to and it's attempting to harm the future King/Queen.

Anyhow, couldn't they lose their titles in America?

[...]

 

[Osipi]

If the Queen wants it removed, she will get it removed and the Parliament will follow. The difference between Prince Andrew is that he isn't attacking the other members of his family as they are. The book clearly comes from them or someone they told this information to and it's attempting to harm the future King/Queen.

Anyhow, couldn't they lose their titles in America?

[...]

Their titles will *not* be removed. Can I make a suggestion? There's a good thread here that goes into details how titles and styles work in the UK. It can be found here: https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f23/questions-about-british-styles-and-titles-258.html

 

[Denville]

If the Queen wants it removed, she will get it removed and the Parliament will follow. The difference between Prince Andrew is that he isn't attacking the other members of his family as they are. The book clearly comes from them or someone they told this information to and it's attempting to harm the future King/Queen.

Anyhow, couldn't they lose their titles in America?

[...]

The queen is not going to interfere in Parliament at any time.. esp now with crises all over the world. Eugenie and Bea's husbands are not going to be given titles and its unlikely that they will be doing any royal work...
And as for "Losing their titles in America" no, America has no power to remove titles.
Possibly that was Meg's intention.. but she's in essence left the RF now.. and she's unlikely to return to UK or royal work.

 

[Duchess_Watcher]

[...]
I do think it was Meghan's goal to always leave the UK. Even before she was married to Harry they had to make a statement. She wanted the title, fame, Prince but not the royal part and she's partly been given her way.

One of the comments in the book is about her and Kate being on "Equal footing" or something so she thought they would have bonded more. They really aren't on equal footing minus the same title, Kate will one day be a Princess and future Queen.

I am shocked how little regard Harry has for the monarchy he was raised in. He seemed bitter that his brother had better events. Like he should have known William would be King. I wonder if Meghan has been egging him on that he is a lesser.

 

[Osipi]

Catherine is already a princess of the UK. Princess William. ?

 

[Denville]

Catherine is already a princess of the UK. Princess William. ?

Both of them are Princesses of the UK by marriage...

 

[Denville]

One of the comments in the book is about her and Kate being on "Equal footing" or something so she thought they would have bonded more. They really aren't on equal footing minus the same title, Kate will one day be a Princess and future Queen.

I am shocked how little regard Harry has for the monarchy he was raised in. He seemed bitter that his brother had better events. Like he should have known William would be King. I wonder if Meghan has been egging him on that he is a lesser.

so why regret that they've left? IMO they didn't have potential.. because I felt that Meg (even if we allow her the best of intentions) didn't really understand the RF or the UK.. and might find it too hard to adjust.. and I feel that probably I was right. either she never intended to stay.. or she did intend to at least stay part time but found the UK so uncongenial that she couldn't stick it out.. and IM not too sure that Harry really had potential either.. He has akind heart but IMO he seems not to understand the RF much better than MEg does......

 

[Betsypaige]

I distinctly remember reading that Kate and her hairdressing team used a toy tiara to practice with in the runup to the wedding...why was Serge Norment unwilling to consider this?

Were they unable to locate a "tinsel tiara" or was there something about the hairstyle itself that necessitated having the real one handy?

In any case IF this story is authentic, it reflects badly on Harry and not Meghan. How was she to know/understand the protocol of obtaining access to Royal tiaras? Even before he met Meghan I have always gotten the whiff of a truculent, cosseted, not overly bright brat from Harry. I am glad to hear that the queen is not shy about putting him in his place.

This is purely Harry's faux faux pas. Not Meghan's.

No, it reflects badly on her for throwing a tantrum...it reflects badly on both of them. They are spoiled, rude, entitled, self-absorbed ...I could go on.

 

[Duchess_Watcher]

I mean one day Kate will be Princess of Wales, I am sure William will want her to take that title. Camila is entitled to it but no way she'd ever take it of course.

I do think that Meghan did not do enough research on the monarchy. She's an American actress, she seems to think she could just pop in and do as she pleases. It's a tradition and it is unlike any other. She doesn't understand they follow order and Harry's place in line is irrelevant. The only ones who really matter are Queen Elizabeth, Charles, William, George, Charlotte, Louis. Now Prince Harry should have known this - even Phillip, Camila and Kate don't mean much, but Kate could mean something if William dies and she could be the Queen mother but as soon as George is 18 she's irrelevant in the grand sense. She should have done some research on her status.

 

[Duchess_Watcher]

But to be fair if she wanted to she could have seen herself as a higher status. Her kids could have been Prince and Princess. She'd be the mother to kids in line and their kids would be cousins of the King. Maybe just maybe if Charles is King, he would have them reconsider and as the brothers get older they'll want to repair things for them, their wives and kids.

 

[Osipi]

I mean one day Kate will be Princess of Wales, I am sure William will want her to take that title. Camila is entitled to it but no way she'd ever take it of course.

I do think that Meghan did not do enough research on the monarchy. She's an American actress, she seems to think she could just pop in and do as she pleases. It's a tradition and it is unlike any other. She doesn't understand they follow order and Harry's place in line is irrelevant. The only ones who really matter are Queen Elizabeth, Charles, William, George, Charlotte, Louis. Now Prince Harry should have known this - even Phillip, Camila and Kate don't mean much, but Kate could mean something if William dies and she could be the Queen mother but as soon as George is 18 she's irrelevant in the grand sense. She should have done some research on her status.

Camilla, for your information, *is* The Princess of Wales because she is married to The Prince of Wales. Camilla chose to be styled as The Duchess of Cornwall because she is married to The Duke of Cornwall.

There is also a good thread that goes into detail about the order of precedence. It can be found here: https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f162/precedence-who-outranks-who-5580.html

But to be fair if she wanted to she could have seen herself as a higher status. Her kids could have been Prince and Princess. She'd be the mother to kids in line and their kids would be cousins of the King. Maybe just maybe if Charles is King, he would have them reconsider and as the brothers get older they'll want to repair things for them, their wives and kids.

This is already in place for the most part. Unless Charles changes things up, when he becomes king, the Sussex children will automatically be prince or princess of the UK.

Oh yah... lets not forget that the moment Charles becomes king, Harry becomes The Prince Henry. ?

 

[Madame Verseau]

I still see that the Sussexes are getting 100% the blame for Sussexit, and the BRF and the press bear no responsibility. On her wedding veil 53 flowers of the Commonwealth nations were stitched as a symbol of her desire to work for the Crown. The work she has done - Smart Works, the Hubb cookbook, the Oceania tour, the visit to Ireland to name a few - all of that is being dismissed as if they were nothing. Meghan's crime is not sucking up to the British press and grant access to her family's life and the press trashes her for it . Harry and Archie are not direct line heirs. THE BRF should have provided more support; a Botox story gets shot down faster. The equality with Kate and Meghan is terms of married ins. The Sussexes found their ability to call their shots as an alternative for their happiness. In some quarters the Windsors and the press are looking the WORST. Not everyone is buying palace and press spin.

 

[Claire]

Yes, I do believe that sooner rather then later it will be obviously that all royal family will be dealing with the spares and the irrelevants differently.
I think it is the mentalist of the generation previous royals sucked it up and got on with it. Can you imagine Princess Margaret or Princess Mary going on in this fashion? I am not saying it is right , it is just what was done. It is not going to happening again, now spares and irrelevant royals run to the press, of course we had the medieval ways this was handled.
Soon, I think we are going to see single child royal families. But the way the BRF deals with Louis and Charlotte will be completely different to
the way they dealt with Andrew.

 

[Claire]

You might have noticed that I refer to the irrelevants in the above email if case you were wondering who this refers to _ it is everyone below the Duke of York in the succession . They are the ones who phone and get an appointment to see their mother, grandmother, or relative. They are the ones whose engagements are not covered but the rota as they are the boring Windsor and the press office doesn’t give a damn.
These are the people that Prince Harry fears becaming and in the end even if William allowed him more power , would it have continued under George ? Eventually this is where Harry would have ended with the relatives he looks down on and disrespects. You forget he is the son of Diana he is destined for greatness. Regardless of Meghan this was always going to be Harry’s problem, whoever he married.

 

[Elenath]

By the way I 've just heard about this book. if the two do not distance themselves from it it will nail the cut finally. though we do not how the relations are in the RF.
and if H&M collaborated with the authors of the book or even feeded them with details, it is rather odd how much the authors emphasize they never talked to them, how on earth is their mental health? they have their freedom, is the book only to make money or another symbol for the two's immaturity & problems?
All this feels like a rotten teeth, will it ever stop? they produce more and more publitity, they'd really be hypocrites, poor Archie with those two and only one relative around (M's Mum), his future problems are already sure.

They already have, and the authors have already confirmed Harry and Meghan had nothing to do with the book. And where they got their info? I would presume the same way all other "royal biographers" got their info. Mostly secondary sources and in the case of Scobie, he went on tour with them.

 

[Lilyflo]

Eventually this is where Harry would have ended with the relatives he looks down on and disrespects. You forget he is the son of Diana he is destined for greatness. Regardless of Meghan this was always going to be Harry’s problem, whoever he married.

Do you have any evidence that Harry "looks down on and disrespects" his relatives who are "below the Duke of York in the succession" or is it just your opinion and if so, on what do you base it?

 

[Elenath]

He does NOT say that he didn't talk to them off-the record. There was no off-the-record discussion; not sure what the difference is - but apparently, to him it makes a difference. If he had felt comfortable saying that he didn't talk to them, he would have said so but he didn't.

I believe reporters who used to go on tours with Harry weren't happy with him because after he married Meghan he "changed" and didn't hang out with them anymore. I believe that could count as "off-the-record". I guess these type of reporters know plenty without having to do interviews.

 

[tommy100]

You might have noticed that I refer to the irrelevants in the above email if case you were wondering who this refers to _ it is everyone below the Duke of York in the succession . They are the ones who phone and get an appointment to see their mother, grandmother, or relative. They are the ones whose engagements are not covered but the rota as they are the boring Windsor and the press office doesn’t give a damn.
These are the people that Prince Harry fears becaming and in the end even if William allowed him more power , would it have continued under George ? Eventually this is where Harry would have ended with the relatives he looks down on and disrespects. You forget he is the son of Diana he is destined for greatness. Regardless of Meghan this was always going to be Harry’s problem, whoever he married.

Well Princess Anne is below Andrew and had a ITV 90 min documentary and lots of coverage for her birthday so I’m not sure she is “irrelevant” and in terms of the RF as “Windsor Inc” she is more relevant than even H&M at the moment.

While I think there has been a deliberate decision (by the authors and /or those who contributed and possibly even H&M in terms of friends and stories that they were allowed to share) to focus most of the negativity on W&K and spare HM and Charles to a degree. I can see why this may be thought as a good idea as HM is “the boss” then Charles in time but we have heard throughout this how this drama has brought William and Charles closer and how he has become more involved in the RF workings so maybe it won’t bode well for the future in a way. I think william has part of the same stubborn streak harry does and can see him not letting go of this and it hurting H&M in terms of their role in RF and finances in the future.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

I still see that the Sussexes are getting 100% the blame for Sussexit, and the BRF and the press bear no responsibility. On her wedding veil 53 flowers of the Commonwealth nations were stitched as a symbol of her desire to work for the Crown. The work she has done - Smart Works, the Hubb cookbook, the Oceania tour, the visit to Ireland to name a few - all of that is being dismissed as if they were nothing. Meghan's crime is not sucking up to the British press and grant access to her family's life and the press trashes her for it . Harry and Archie are not direct line heirs. THE BRF should have provided more support; a Botox story gets shot down faster. The equality with Kate and Meghan is terms of married ins. The Sussexes found their ability to call their shots as an alternative for their happiness. In some quarters the Windsors and the press are looking the WORST. Not everyone is buying palace and press spin.

I don't blame Harry and Meghan for "Sussexit". They did the right thing. I think a year is long enough for them to decide that they did not want to continue. No one should allow their family, media or the public (who are basically a group of strangers) to pressure them into a lifestyle they don't want.

With respect to the royal family: No one is perfect and few people are 100% to blame whenever a relationships becomes strained. I believe the royal family could have done some things differently, but they probably did the best they could. I also believe that Harry and Meghan could have done things differently. Specifically, they could have told their friends not to cooperate with this book. Publicly airing family grievances is never productive. I believe that Harry and Meghan love and care about his family and this book will make it harder to resolve their differences.

 

[tommy100]

Even HM and Charles have off the record receptions during state/official visits overseas with the press most of the time so its not like Harry was just no longer doing something he started, it is accepted practice in the RF so the press would be expecting it to some degree.

 

[poppy7]

I believe reporters who used to go on tours with Harry weren't happy with him because after he married Meghan he "changed" and didn't hang out with them anymore. I believe that could count as "off-the-record". I guess these type of reporters know plenty without having to do interviews.

They used to have receptions and things and they would chat at them. But I think all those receptions while on tour has changed for all of them now.

I don't know some are little rose coloured about the past. They were never Harry's favourite people and he could be spikey.

 

[Leopoldine]

Really glad to see the Royal Family defending Ms Kelly ...

"But last night a Royal source pointedly said: 'The book's version of what happened would not be everyone else's recollection of events and certainly not those who were close to it'".

A friend of the Susseses says the hairdresser had been flown over from Paris for a practice session and they were frustrated at not having a tiara to use.

"Angela Kelly said she couldn't come to London and Harry went ballistic".

"Meghan demanded access to the tiara ... Harry was very quick to let everybody know of his anger and frustration ... ringing others to put pressure on Angela to bend the rules."

There are a lot of details in the article actually so I won't quote any more, you can read it if interested.

The whole thing appears to have been the Sussexes not following protocol, being awful to people in postions of lesser power, and the Prince ending up getting a dressing-down from Her Majesty.

The Sussexes are so embarrasing to themselves, all this hellish behaviour being dragged out and exposed.

But so good Ms Kelly is being shown to be the innocent party in all the Sussexes' dramatics.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ce-Harry-using-bad-language-closest-aide.html




Totally agree hel.

It's now become impossible to defend the Duke and Duchess of Sussex as not being involved with "Finding Freedom".

The alternative is Mr Sobie and Ms Durand are nuts, making up stuff at this level of detail.

And the publishing house and their lawyers, "The Times" and "The Sunday Times" and their lawyers, serious professionals, all going along with it. Why would they? They'd have to be nuts too.

Time to give up trying to sell this idea that the Sussexes didn't speak and that they don't have their hands all over this. That view has been blown out of the water by each new snippet and anecdote.

I think this will test their lawsuit vs. Mail on Sunday.

 

[Roderick]

I don't blame Harry and Meghan for "Sussexit". They did the right thing. I think a year is long enough for them to decide that they did not want to continue. No one should allow their family, media or the public (who are basically a group of strangers) to pressure them into a lifestyle they don't want.

With respect to the royal family: No one is perfect and few people are 100% to blame whenever a relationships becomes strained. I believe the royal family could have done some things differently, but they probably did the best they could. I also believe that Harry and Meghan could have done things differently. Specifically, they could have told their friends not to cooperate with this book. Publicly airing family grievances is never productive. I believe that Harry and Meghan love and care about his family and this book will make it harder to resolve their differences.

How exactly do you believe Harry and Meghan 'love and care about his family'? Maybe it is just me, but I don't see evidence of this at all.

 

[Hallo girl]

I think this will test their lawsuit vs. Mail on Sunday.

That is an interesting point.

 

[Betsypaige]

Well Princess Anne is below Andrew and had a ITV 90 min documentary and lots of coverage for her birthday so I’m not sure she is “irrelevant” and in terms of the RF as “Windsor Inc” she is more relevant than even H&M at the moment.

While I think there has been a deliberate decision (by the authors and /or those who contributed and possibly even H&M in terms of friends and stories that they were allowed to share) to focus most of the negativity on W&K and spare HM and Charles to a degree. I can see why this may be thought as a good idea as HM is “the boss” then Charles in time but we have heard throughout this how this drama has brought William and Charles closer and how he has become more involved in the RF workings so maybe it won’t bode well for the future in a way. I think william has part of the same stubborn streak harry does and can see him not letting go of this and it hurting H&M in terms of their role in RF and finances in the future.

Or, maybe Harry is just plan angrier at his brother than his father and grandmother...He seems to think William and Kate have been deliberately snobby/etc. to he and Meghan. Honestly, I wouldn’t blame William if he chooses not to let it go, because aside from the fact that H completely twisted his attempt to help him, H and M have hurt Kate...and of course he’s going to be protective of her. I really hope that things can get better between all of them if H visits for Christmas. I’m sure it’s killing Charles to see his sons at odds.

 

[Nico]

In some quarters the Windsors and the press are looking the WORST. Not everyone is buying palace and press spin.

Who cares ?
At the end the Crown always wins. As far i can see the BRF is not one single second endangered by this mediocre book, more entertaining than anything else really. The institution has seen much much worse and , above all, has better things to do nowadays.
The UK, her Majesty's subjects and , thankfully, the vast majority of people don't give a damn about it , as they don't care about the opinion of some peripheric die hard American fans of the Sussexes (namely the intended audience).
World has changed. This book was published at the worst time possible, and is counterproductive as possible. Not for the Royal Family mind you, but for the Sussexes themselves, because, and i know it as a fact, people in the UK, in these times of hardship, have so much to worry about right now than pitying two highly privilegied people living abroad. All of this melodrama appear now so irrelevant, if not indecent...
So despite your sympathetical and multiple preaches, i'm affraid the Sussexes files are now closed for good, institutionally, dynasticly, and publicly, especially the UK. Remain of course some semi-celebrity networks in California maybe. But, again, who cares ?

 

[Moonmaiden23]

I still see that the Sussexes are getting 100% the blame for Sussexit, and the BRF and the press bear no responsibility. On her wedding veil 53 flowers of the Commonwealth nations were stitched as a symbol of her desire to work for the Crown. The work she has done - Smart Works, the Hubb cookbook, the Oceania tour, the visit to Ireland to name a few - all of that is being dismissed as if they were nothing. Meghan's crime is not sucking up to the British press and grant access to her family's life and the press trashes her for it . Harry and Archie are not direct line heirs. THE BRF should have provided more support; a Botox story gets shot down faster. The equality with Kate and Meghan is terms of married ins. The Sussexes found their ability to call their shots as an alternative for their happiness. In some quarters the Windsors and the press are looking the WORST. Not everyone is buying palace and press spin.

Cultivating a realistic relationship with the Press is part of the job. You call it "sucking up". The hard, cold, cruel fact of life is that the relationship between press and public is a symbiotic one for ANY public person...Royal, sports figure, TV star, politician.

They need you. You need them. So it would behoove everyone to develop a very thick skin and play ball.

Meghan is highly intelligent and worldly. But there was NEVER going to be any "equal footing as married ins" with Kate. Kate will be Princess of Wales and queen of England. Even if Harry had married an aristocrat or a foreign Royal, his wife would have not been treated as a married in equal with William's wife.

My suspicion is that Meghan is a supremely self confident young woman who is used to "winning". But given her pragmatic and goal oriented approach to life, it seems more and more evident that she didn't do any real homework before marrying into the BRF. Did she read Royal biographies?Study the history of the institution...good and bad? And yes...race and class distinctions are a BIG part of the picture.

Did Meghan study the trials and errors of any of the other modern young women who have married into European royalty? Reach out and cultivate key relationships within the family ...fellow actress Sophie Winkelman(now Lady Frederick Windsor)perhaps?

Did she seek to be mentored by ANYONE other than her resentful immature husband and her showbiz confidants?

All this-and more- is what I personally would have done in Meghan's shoes.