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  #521  
Old 07-26-2020, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
And yet after this apparently happened and they had got engaged H&M still said the RF have been supportive:
https://time.com/5038618/prince-harr...ew-transcript/

BBC: You have met each other’s families, I imagine?

Markle: Yes, his family has been so welcoming.

Prince Harry: You’ve met quite a few of them actually.

Markle: I have — on both sides of his family. On his mom’s side as well, which has been really important to me too. The family has been great, and over the past year and half, we’ve just had a really nice time getting to know them and progressively helping me feel a part of not just the institution but also part of the family, which has been really, really special.

Prince Harry: Trying to track them down to make sure that they are around at the same time she is popping in without telling too many people — we’ve actually done incredibly well to ensure you’ve met all the key people.


***
Markle: We were able to really get to know each other that way. But also then to go and have friends over for dinner or to go to his family for tea. Any of those sort of things. Just to take the — take the time to be able to go on long country walks and just talk.

Prince Harry: We’ve been — we’ve been all over the place.

BBC: Have you met the Queen?

Markle: I have, yes.

Prince Harry: A couple of times.

Markle: Yes, true, a couple of times.

BBC: What was that like?

Markle: It’s incredible, I think, you know, a.) to be able to meet her through his lens, not just with his honor and respect for her as the monarch, but the love that he has for her as his grandmother. All of those layers have been so important for me so that when I met her I had such a deep understanding and, of course, incredible respect for being able to have that time with her. And we’ve had a really — she’s an incredible woman.

Prince Harry: And the corgis took to you straight away.

Markle: That’s true.

Prince Harry: I’ve spent the last 33 years being barked at. This one walks in, absolutely nothing …

Markle: Just laying on my feet during tea, it was very sweet.

Prince Harry: Just wagging tails and I was just like ugh


***

BBC: What was it like introducing Meghan to your father and your brother?

Prince Harry: What was it like? It was exciting I mean I’ve — you know I’d been seeing her for a period of time when I literally didn’t tell anybody at all. And then William was longing to meet her and so was Catherine, so you know, being our neighbors, we managed to get that in a couple of — well quite a few times now and Catherine has been absolutely

Markle: She’s been wonderful.

Prince Harry: … amazing, as has William as well, you know, fantastic support. And then my father as well, we had a couple of — no, more than that …

Markle: We’ve had …

Prince Harry: … A handful of teas and meetings and all sorts of gatherings over at his place as well. So no the family together have been absolutely, you know, a solid support and my grandparents as well have been — have been wonderful throughout this whole process, and they’ve known for quite some time. So how they – how they haven’t told anybody is, again, a miracle in itself. But no, the whole family have come together and have been a huge amount of support.

Markle: They’ve been amazing.
Wow.......like night and day.
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  #522  
Old 07-26-2020, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
And yet after this apparently happened and they had got engaged H&M still said the RF have been supportive:
https://time.com/5038618/prince-harr...ew-transcript/

[I]BBC: You have met each other’s families, I imagine?
In all fairness, Meghan and Harry could hardly have said anything else at the time without causing a huge sensation!

Quote:
Originally Posted by caethi View Post
This is very possible. Lainey has been very vocal about the subtle and not-so-subtle racism in press coverage of Meghan. That's a good thing, but in my read of her columns she hasn't been too shy about implying that most of the BRF is racist too. She has publicly stated however that she does not have a close relationship with Jessica Mulroney even though she has worked with Ben Mulroney for years. So who knows? There are sources, some from outside of H and M's circle and many from inside. That's pretty obvious.
If you look for evidence to support whatever prejudice you have, you will find them.
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  #523  
Old 07-26-2020, 12:52 PM
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Everyone is upset that the Sussexes allegedly spoke to Scobie and Durand on the book because of fine details. The problem is the BM can't prove it. Since Meghan's dad got hit in FF I think the statement from their rep is bungled on the lawsuit. Manipulated or not it's print Dad took money from the tabloids to trash Meghan and Harry. What I noticed that the Mail pushed back with excerpts that the Sussexes rebuffed palace advice to reach out to him. But outreach was turned in on court papers. I wonder if DM lawyers are worried if the book has hurt the case.
  #524  
Old 07-26-2020, 12:52 PM
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I'm am so over these two. They just need to stop the pity party. They wanted to be out of the RF and they got want they wanted and, dear I say, what they deserve.

Didn't Harry see what happened to his mother when she was out of the fold. The real world is a horrible place.

Meghan could have made an incredible difference, but didn't understand the royal system and, frankly, didn't want to. JMHO.

This is going to end badly -- for both of them and, unfortunately, for their son.
  #525  
Old 07-26-2020, 01:02 PM
ACO ACO is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
In all fairness, Meghan and Harry could hardly have said anything else at the time without causing a huge sensation!.
Basically. I mean maybe at the time they were all just putting up a good front. Remember people saying they picked up tension during their RF forum? Not that I necessarily think it’s true but people put on game faces all the time.
  #526  
Old 07-26-2020, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACO View Post
Basically. I mean maybe at the time they were all just putting up a good front. Remember people saying they picked up tension during their RF forum? Not that I necessarily think it’s true but people put on game faces all the time.
It seems to me that they said an awful lot to indicate that Meghan was fitting in oh so well to the RF, and was loved by everyone even the corgis..so either it was true or.. it wasn't true. If it wasn't true, why say so much? Why not just politely say that she'd met most of the RF and liked them...
If it was true, how come it all went pear shaped wiithin a year...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Missjersey View Post
“Came across” is what (my opinion) I perceived in the SHORT time beginning pre engagement. I thought she was phony by engagement and marrying for a title to promote herself.

Denville, sorry, I meant to quote you
Its hard to understand her and Harry.. He swings around so much. And I did find her hard to like from the first because she just gave off a fake overly gushy vibe... so I've tried to be fair to her but I probably haven't succeeded. I did think she wasn't right for the RF.. but I thought she'd learn and make herself fit in OR she would just walk out, as Sarah Ferg did.. I didn't envisage her walking out with Harry...
That seems to indicate more "planning" on her part... that she didn't just want to leave and be a divorced ex duchess if things didnt go well.. She wanted to take her royal partner with her and set up as exiled semi royalty who were running thier own business....
  #527  
Old 07-26-2020, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
Everyone is upset that the Sussexes allegedly spoke to Scobie and Durand on the book because of fine details. The problem is the BM can't prove it. Since Meghan's dad got hit in FF I think the statement from their rep is bungled on the lawsuit. Manipulated or not it's print Dad took money from the tabloids to trash Meghan and Harry. What I noticed that the Mail pushed back with excerpts that the Sussexes rebuffed palace advice to reach out to him. But outreach was turned in on court papers. I wonder if DM lawyers are worried if the book has hurt the case.
I don't know what BM and FF stand for.

While Thomas Markle and other family members may have taken money from tabloids for interviews where they trashed Meghan, this seems to be related to those staged photo ops. Samantha acknowledged the scheme shortly after the story came out in 2018 in the run up to the Meghan's wedding, so while the actual amount of money may be new information, the actual admission is not new news.

The story was posted in this thread but I don't think it is related to the book other than it looks like The Times had this information for a while but did not publish it, so it looks like the story was squashed and then unsquashed, probably as some kind of rebuttal. It seems like the point they are trying to get across is that even before the engagement announcement, it was determined that Thomas Markle was a ticking timebomb and should be handled sensitively. It was advised that Harry should meet Thomas in person but Harry and Meghan rejected the advice.
  #528  
Old 07-26-2020, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
but the fact that he is the second son, that he's known from babyhood that Will would be king and not him etc etc.. surely should mean that he knows he is there as a support act to the more senior royals i.e. the queen, Charles and Will, and that even if he is very popular, it does not mean that he's more important than they are... I dont want to Argue, I just feel that unless he's really stupid (possible) or very willful (also possible) he IS aware of his place in the hierarchy and what it implies.... IMO he knows but doesn't want to abide by it.
I think Harry accepts his position when it’s obvious eg in processions, official events etc but not so much when it’s less obvious eg decisions about the work he may or may not do. I think he knows his role is to support the monarchy but he doesn’t fully understand that how he does that must be approved or even directed by HMQ and/or Prince Charles, which in many instances will be via their senior advisers. I think this is where he rebels because (if this book is correct) he regards his popularity as a reason to afford him more decision making powers. Perhaps he’s looking at the monarchy purely from his own perspective and concluding that he’s being denied the opportunities to serve it to his best ability. It’s possible to construct an argument that would support him in that view if you define ‘serving the monarchy’ in Harry’s terms but that definition most likely wouldn’t chime with the one that HMQ’s advisers have. I could elaborate on that in ‘The future of the monarchy’ thread if you’d like to discuss it further and mods don’t think it’s appropriate here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Im not sure what Charles was supposed to do to lay down "boundaries"..
What should he have done do you think? IM not being aggressive, just asking.
I think that for example when H got into trouble over the naked party in Vegas, Charles probably said to him that he could not get away with "youthful high jinks" any more, that he was too old for this sort of mullarkey to be smiled at.. and that he had to pull up his socks. And I wouldn't be surprised if Ch added that if he HAD been the elder son, the press might have been more discreet about the story because he would be the heir but as he was second son, he was going to have to watch his step all the more…
I don’t think it’s just about youthful behaviour, which in time would be overlooked and probably didn’t harm the monarchy or Prince Charles at all as it shows they’re dealing with what most parents deal with eg one’s offspring can make any of us swell with pride one minute and cringe with embarrassment the next. I’m not blaming Charles as a parent because heaven knows it’s a tough enough job for all of us with our differing challenges. However, Charles is more than a parent in this situation: he’s also Harry’s ‘line manager’ so I do hold Charles largely (not wholly) responsible for Harry’s lack of understanding about how he should be fulfilling his role (see above). This brings me back to my previous point about the system not being fit for purpose because it relies too heavily on individuals finding their own path without much guidance, which works well for those who mostly make the right choices but fails those who don’t (for a variety of reasons). The freedom to 'mess it up' and lack of clear boundaries is a boost to some and very unhelpful to others. I honestly don’t wish to castigate Charles because there is so much to admire about him (and I do) and he’s had enough angst to deal with in his life but part of his role was to prepare his sons for their roles and in Harry’s case, my view is that the preparation has been insufficient. There are mitigating circumstances as to why anyone would feel that Charles himself was insufficiently prepared for his role as guide and mentor to the next generation of course but that’s definitely outside the scope of this thread!
  #529  
Old 07-26-2020, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
In all fairness, Meghan and Harry could hardly have said anything else at the time without causing a huge sensation!



If you look for evidence to support whatever prejudice you have, you will find them.
I nearly always agree with you Muhler but IMO why mention how brilliant William and Catherine have been, there's too much gushing detail for H&M just to be "following the party line" IMO.

Yes we've all met and are looking forward to getting to know each other even more" would be the - can hardly say anything else- answer IMO. You don't have to say Catherine has been wonderful and amazing and William has been a "fantastic support". Certainly if there was a deep issue there you'd think they would avoid saying too much.
  #530  
Old 07-26-2020, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilyflo View Post
I think Harry accepts his position when it’s obvious eg in processions, official events etc but not so much when it’s less obvious eg decisions about the work he may or may not do. I think he knows his role is to support the monarchy but he doesn’t fully understand that how he does that must be approved or even directed by HMQ and/or Prince Charles, which in many instances will be via their senior advisers. I think this is where he rebels because (if this book is correct) he regards his popularity as a reason to afford him more decision making powers. Perhaps he’s looking at the monarchy purely from his own perspective and concluding that he’s being denied the opportunities to serve it to his best ability. It’s possible to construct an argument that would support him in that view if you define ‘serving the monarchy’ in Harry’s terms but that definition most likely wouldn’t chime with the one that HMQ’s advisers have. I could elaborate on that in ‘The future of the monarchy’ thread if you’d like to discuss it further and mods don’t think it’s appropriate here.


I don’t think it’s just about youthful behaviour, which in time would be overlooked and probably didn’t harm the monarchy or Prince Charles at all as it shows they’re dealing with what most parents deal with eg one’s offspring can make any of us swell with pride one minute and cringe with embarrassment the next. I’m not blaming Charles as a parent because heaven knows it’s a tough enough job for all of us with our differing challenges. However, Charles is more than a parent in this situation: he’s also Harry’s ‘line manager’ so I do hold Charles largely (not wholly) responsible for Harry’s lack of understanding about how he should be fulfilling his role (see above). This brings me back to my previous point about the system not being fit for purpose because it relies too heavily on individuals finding their own path without much guidance, which works well for those who mostly make the right choices but fails those who don’t (for a variety of reasons). The freedom to 'mess it up' and lack of clear boundaries is a boost to some and very unhelpful to others. I honestly don’t wish to castigate Charles because there is so much to admire about him (and I do) and he’s had enough angst to deal with in his life but part of his role was to prepare his sons for their roles and in Harry’s case, my view is that the preparation has been insufficient. There are mitigating circumstances as to why anyone would feel that Charles himself was insufficiently prepared for his role as guide and mentor to the next generation of course but that’s definitely outside the scope of this thread!
I don’t know if he accepts his position....remember when Queen, Charles and Camilla, William and Catherine celebrated the 50 yr anniversary of Charles’ Investiture, why was Harry and Meghan there other than an awkward photo op. That seemed amiss to me, they could have enjoyed the exhibit privately as it had absolutely nothing to do with them.
  #531  
Old 07-26-2020, 02:12 PM
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The latest extract is all about H&M meeting and their first few dates:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/n...date-xm7lznkvm

Perhaps she sensed his nervousness, because the couple were somewhat bashful at first. However, it didn’t take long for them to start chatting easily. Very easily. On two individual velvet club chairs, the pair were “in their own little world”, a source said.

***

Over drinks (beer for him, a martini for her), they asked each other questions about their work. Nibbles may have been out on the low table in front of their oversize chairs, but neither touched the food. They were also too engrossed in their conversation, and too involved with each other...

***

Harry talked about his charity work, excitedly telling her stories from his extensive trips to Africa. Their “passions for wanting to make change for good”, as Harry described it, was, as Meghan said, “One of the first things we connected on.

***

...Almost immediately they were almost obsessed with each other,” a friend said. “It was as if Harry was in a trance.” Meghan called one of her girlfriends. “Do I sound crazy when I say this could have legs?” she asked.

***

...They returned to Dean Street Townhouse the next evening for a romantic dinner. No front entrance for the pair, they were given directions for how to get into the building using a discreet door away from prying eyes — and familiar only to staff and delivery trucks bringing in produce...

***

Staff did all they could to keep details of the dinner private, allowing just one trusted waiter to serve them the entire evening.

***


...Still, their chemistry had been electric throughout the meal as they both flirted. A touch of an arm here, direct eye contact there....

***

...around the time of their first encounter, she began to follow a mysterious-looking Instagram account by the name of @SpikeyMau5. With no face visible in the profile photo, just a mouse-shaped helmet, it would have meant nothing to most people. But it was in fact Harry’s private account....

***

...Much bolder was Meghan’s public Instagram post the same night of their first solo date: a photo of a Love Hearts candy with the inscription “Kiss Me” and the caption “Lovehearts in #London”.

Whether it had meaning to anyone else, Harry got the message.

***

...Except as the cab wound through London’s dark winding streets, it had no ordinary destination: Kensington Palace. The car pulled off the main road and drove up the private Palace Avenue that took Meghan to an industrial-looking security gate and guard’s office that was a far cry from the palace gates she had imagined. But the humdrum entrance, often used by staff or those visiting the estate for meetings, was the most discreet way in. Meghan was then met by a protection officer. She was ushered down a cobbled path of small mews cottages, which she later commented looked so tiny and perfectly appointed with manicured flower boxes and pots that they hardly looked real. When Harry opened the door, the prince towered in the small hallway with lots of coats hung on hooks and his boots by the door, just like any regular home....

***

Meghan had enough dating experience to know a charmer when she saw one, and Harry was obviously not at all that. If anything, he was unfiltered. While it was clear he wanted to impress her with details about his work, he spoke without overthinking...

***

Ever since the couple’s trip to Africa, their romance had been on a fast track. “Technically the getaway was just their third date,” said a friend about Botswana, “but by then, they were each already dancing around the idea that this just may be a for ever thing.”

***

Three months into their relationship, a Meghan friend said, they had already begun swapping the words “I love you”. It was Harry who said it first, but Meghan immediately replied, “I love you, too.” From there it didn’t take long for them to begin talking in non-oblique terms about their future.

***

A tabloid was going to run with the story of their relationship. Their main worry was that her place would be besieged by photographers within 24 hours. They had a little time to think, because there were only a couple of paparazzi in Toronto. (One of them had already texted Meghan to ask if the news was true; she didn’t reply.) But it wouldn’t be long before photographers flew in from New York and LA, all hoping to get that first picture of the happy couple....

***

Aides suggested it would be best for Harry to cut his trip short and quietly return to London, his minimal security now something of an issue. But the prince wasn’t having it. He wasn’t budging.

***

When their relationship was revealed, some took to Meghan’s Twitter and Instagram accounts to express racist feelings that were anything but subtle, including calling her the n-word or a “mutt”. Members of the royal family had dated and married commoners, but no senior royal member, apart from Princess Diana post-divorce, had ever publicly dated anyone who was not white. This was a first.

Harry was incandescent with rage. For the prince, Meghan was his personal introduction to the ugliness of racism. While it might have been new territory for Harry, bias — both unconscious and intentional — had always been a part of Meghan’s life.

When he first started seeing her, Harry, sensitive to even the slightest hint of prejudice, had fallouts within his own circle. When some questioned his new relationship, and whether she was suitable, he would wonder, “Is this about race? Is it snobbery?” An old friend of Harry’s spent an afternoon gossiping about Meghan, making disparaging remarks about her Hollywood background. Word got back to Harry, and the prince immediately cut him off. If he was willing to confront those close to him, when it came to the media, Harry was poised for outright war.

***

When Harry decided to make an official statement, the only stumbling block was Prince Charles. On a diplomatic tour in the Middle East, the Prince of Wales and the Duchess of Cornwall had just arrived in Bahrain to meet the country’s King Hamad bin Isa al-Khalifa. It was a critical moment that had been in the works for months. A statement from Kensington Palace condemning the press and, in the same breath, confirming Harry’s new girlfriend would all but eliminate coverage of Prince Charles’s tour of the Gulf.The Palace decided to go ahead with the statement nonetheless, much of which was drafted by Harry himself. Charles learnt of it just 20 minutes before it went out. Sure enough, as soon as Harry put out his declaration, the statement dominated the news cycle. The team at Clarence House, which had spent months putting together Prince Charles’s tour in the hopes that it would be covered significantly, was crushed. While disappointed that his son didn’t wait for him to come back, Charles also understood that the situation with Meghan had reached a tipping point. Harry had felt the need to prioritise the woman he loved over duty to the greater royal family.

***
  #532  
Old 07-26-2020, 02:18 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Harry knows well what his position is, he is 6th, even I could work out that the photographs on the queens desk were signifying the continuity of the monarchy.
Regular royal watchers will have noticed the subtle or not so subtle changes preparing for that terrible moment when there is a change of monarch. Charles and William are stepping up ready for change.
I find it hard to believe that Harry doesn't understand this. Anne ,Andrew and Edward all had to step back once Charles had children. Harry is in the same position as them now that William has children. There was still a role for him just as the others still have a role to play.
  #533  
Old 07-26-2020, 02:20 PM
Lilyflo's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Missjersey View Post
I don’t know if he accepts his position....remember when Queen, Charles and Camilla, William and Catherine celebrated the 50 yr anniversary of Charles’ Investiture, why was Harry and Meghan there other than an awkward photo op. That seemed amiss to me, they could have enjoyed the exhibit privately as it had absolutely nothing to do with them.
I can't imagine Prince Charles wanting to celebrate a major anniversary of his investiture as Prince of Wales with only one of his two children. It's entirely logical to me that he'd want to be surrounded by his closest family and share the occasion with them.
  #534  
Old 07-26-2020, 02:21 PM
Serene Highness
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallo girl View Post
Harry knows well what his position is, he is 6th, even I could work out that the photographs on the queens desk were signifying the continuity of the monarchy.
Regular royal watchers will have noticed the subtle or not so subtle changes preparing for that terrible moment when there is a change of monarch. Charles and William are stepping up ready for change.
I find it hard to believe that Harry doesn't understand this. Anne ,Andrew and Edward all had to step back once Charles had children. Harry is in the same position as them now that William has children. There was still a role for him just as the others still have a role to play.
Right, he just doesn’t like it !
  #535  
Old 07-26-2020, 02:26 PM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallo girl View Post
Harry knows well what his position is, he is 6th, even I could work out that the photographs on the queens desk were signifying the continuity of the monarchy.
Regular royal watchers will have noticed the subtle or not so subtle changes preparing for that terrible moment when there is a change of monarch. Charles and William are stepping up ready for change.
I find it hard to believe that Harry doesn't understand this. Anne ,Andrew and Edward all had to step back once Charles had children. Harry is in the same position as them now that William has children. There was still a role for him just as the others still have a role to play.
Perhaps that's the problem that until a couple of years ago, perhaps it wasn't so close to the time when Charles and William were stepping up to "going up"...
Now Will has 3 children. Charles is taking over more of the queen's work - Philip has retired..
and Will is beginning to take over some of Ch's work.. so perhaps it has really dawned on H now that he's 6th in line and that he will gradually be less taken note of.. that he'll be working doing his duties.. but wont get as much media coverage as His father will be the King and Will will be POW...
I dont know if he's really fretting because he can't do X or Y charity work.. Maybe he is fretting that he will have to be extra careful what he says in public from now on...
but Is he really upset that there is some charity he can't get involved in? Or is the upset about feeling "Im going to work my butt off for years and years, doing the duty work, but I'll never get the top job.. I will find that as I get older the press takes less notice of me.. and I'm yesterdays man..."
Or maybe he is thinking "I was really popular in 2018 with the wedding and everyone was cheering and now Im sliding toward "Ageing uncle Harry"...
  #536  
Old 07-26-2020, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilyflo View Post
I can't imagine Prince Charles wanting to celebrate a major anniversary of his investiture as Prince of Wales with only one of his two children. It's entirely logical to me that he'd want to be surrounded by his closest family and share the occasion with them.
Sure, perhaps at a reception afterwards, but for me it was unnecessary for them to be included in something of a photo op that doesn’t pertain to them. If I remember correctly, even the Queen brushed past them in haste in the video or that’s what I saw
  #537  
Old 07-26-2020, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilyflo View Post
I think Harry accepts his position when it’s obvious eg in processions, official events etc but not so much when it’s less obvious eg decisions about the work he may or may not do. I think he knows his role is to support the monarchy but he doesn’t fully understand that how he does that must be approved or even directed by HMQ and/or Prince Charles, which in many instances will be via their senior advisers. I think this is where he rebels because (if this book is correct) he regards his popularity as a reason to afford him more decision making powers. Perhaps he’s looking at the monarchy purely from his own perspective and concluding that he’s being denied the opportunities to serve it to his best ability. It’s possible to construct an argument that would support him in that view if you define ‘serving the monarchy’ in Harry’s terms but that definition most likely wouldn’t chime with the one that HMQ’s advisers have. I could elaborate on that in ‘The future of the monarchy’ thread if you’d like to discuss it further and mods don’t think it’s appropriate here.

I don’t think it’s just about youthful behaviour, which in time would be overlooked and probably didn’t harm the monarchy or Prince Charles at all as it shows they’re dealing with what most parents deal with eg one’s offspring can make any of us swell with pride one minute and cringe with embarrassment the next. I’m not blaming Charles as a parent because heaven knows it’s a tough enough job for all of us with our differing challenges. However, Charles is more than a parent in this situation: he’s also Harry’s ‘line manager’ so I do hold Charles largely (not wholly) responsible for Harry’s lack of understanding about how he should be fulfilling his role (see above). This brings me back to my previous point about the system not being fit for purpose because it relies too heavily on individuals finding their own path without much guidance, which works well for those who mostly make the right choices but fails those who don’t (for a variety of reasons). The freedom to 'mess it up' and lack of clear boundaries is a boost to some and very unhelpful to others. I honestly don’t wish to castigate Charles because there is so much to admire about him (and I do) and he’s had enough angst to deal with in his life but part of his role was to prepare his sons for their roles and in Harry’s case, my view is that the preparation has been insufficient. There are mitigating circumstances as to why anyone would feel that Charles himself was insufficiently prepared for his role as guide and mentor to the next generation of course but that’s definitely outside the scope of this thread!
Lilyflo, you are making some very important points in this and other posts. Yes some of what has happened is about Harry and Meghan and their deficiencies but there are some structural issues with how this Firm has been allowed to operate, namely having 3 different courts, households or whatever you want to term it. Harry going from being in a joint court with William (Kensington Palace) to being part of Buckingham Palace court centered around the nonagenarian monarch was fraught. As I stated in a previous post, the real death knell to Harry and Meghan being working royals was them being subsumed in Buckingham Palace and not getting their own court - not that I think that they should have gotten their own court. However when you step back, having multiple courts is a problem in and of itself. There have been murmurings about the multiple courts and organizational changes have been made in the past but the Windsors are quite lucky that this has not blown up in their faces.

The second thing I question on a fundamental level is the notion of The British Royal Family / The Firm. While the institution of the monarchy has been around for more than a thousand years, the Royal Family is a fairly new concept.

I very much like the idea of a royal family, yeah I am making this claim from my perch in a republican country... but is it really OK to obligate someone who is not the monarch or heir apparent to serve the monarchy as a supporting player? If a spare wants to do that and there is a role for him or her, then great but if not, then the lesson for future generations is learn to manage those roles and transitions.

It may turn out that Harry and Meghan are more symptoms of the problems than the problems themselves, and as Lilyflo already mentioned may be a discussion for another thread.
  #538  
Old 07-26-2020, 03:22 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Woodbury, United States
Posts: 2,635
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
The latest extract is all about H&M meeting and their first few dates:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/n...date-xm7lznkvm

Perhaps she sensed his nervousness, because the couple were somewhat bashful at first. However, it didn’t take long for them to start chatting easily. Very easily. On two individual velvet club chairs, the pair were “in their own little world”, a source said.

***

Over drinks (beer for him, a martini for her), they asked each other questions about their work. Nibbles may have been out on the low table in front of their oversize chairs, but neither touched the food. They were also too engrossed in their conversation, and too involved with each other...

***

Harry talked about his charity work, excitedly telling her stories from his extensive trips to Africa. Their “passions for wanting to make change for good”, as Harry described it, was, as Meghan said, “One of the first things we connected on.

***

...Almost immediately they were almost obsessed with each other,” a friend said. “It was as if Harry was in a trance.” Meghan called one of her girlfriends. “Do I sound crazy when I say this could have legs?” she asked.

***

...They returned to Dean Street Townhouse the next evening for a romantic dinner. No front entrance for the pair, they were given directions for how to get into the building using a discreet door away from prying eyes — and familiar only to staff and delivery trucks bringing in produce...

***

Staff did all they could to keep details of the dinner private, allowing just one trusted waiter to serve them the entire evening.

***


...Still, their chemistry had been electric throughout the meal as they both flirted. A touch of an arm here, direct eye contact there....

***

...around the time of their first encounter, she began to follow a mysterious-looking Instagram account by the name of @SpikeyMau5. With no face visible in the profile photo, just a mouse-shaped helmet, it would have meant nothing to most people. But it was in fact Harry’s private account....

***

...Much bolder was Meghan’s public Instagram post the same night of their first solo date: a photo of a Love Hearts candy with the inscription “Kiss Me” and the caption “Lovehearts in #London”.

Whether it had meaning to anyone else, Harry got the message.

***

...Except as the cab wound through London’s dark winding streets, it had no ordinary destination: Kensington Palace. The car pulled off the main road and drove up the private Palace Avenue that took Meghan to an industrial-looking security gate and guard’s office that was a far cry from the palace gates she had imagined. But the humdrum entrance, often used by staff or those visiting the estate for meetings, was the most discreet way in. Meghan was then met by a protection officer. She was ushered down a cobbled path of small mews cottages, which she later commented looked so tiny and perfectly appointed with manicured flower boxes and pots that they hardly looked real. When Harry opened the door, the prince towered in the small hallway with lots of coats hung on hooks and his boots by the door, just like any regular home....

***

Meghan had enough dating experience to know a charmer when she saw one, and Harry was obviously not at all that. If anything, he was unfiltered. While it was clear he wanted to impress her with details about his work, he spoke without overthinking...

***

Ever since the couple’s trip to Africa, their romance had been on a fast track. “Technically the getaway was just their third date,” said a friend about Botswana, “but by then, they were each already dancing around the idea that this just may be a for ever thing.”

***

Three months into their relationship, a Meghan friend said, they had already begun swapping the words “I love you”. It was Harry who said it first, but Meghan immediately replied, “I love you, too.” From there it didn’t take long for them to begin talking in non-oblique terms about their future.

***

A tabloid was going to run with the story of their relationship. Their main worry was that her place would be besieged by photographers within 24 hours. They had a little time to think, because there were only a couple of paparazzi in Toronto. (One of them had already texted Meghan to ask if the news was true; she didn’t reply.) But it wouldn’t be long before photographers flew in from New York and LA, all hoping to get that first picture of the happy couple....

***

Aides suggested it would be best for Harry to cut his trip short and quietly return to London, his minimal security now something of an issue. But the prince wasn’t having it. He wasn’t budging.

***

When their relationship was revealed, some took to Meghan’s Twitter and Instagram accounts to express racist feelings that were anything but subtle, including calling her the n-word or a “mutt”. Members of the royal family had dated and married commoners, but no senior royal member, apart from Princess Diana post-divorce, had ever publicly dated anyone who was not white. This was a first.

Harry was incandescent with rage. For the prince, Meghan was his personal introduction to the ugliness of racism. While it might have been new territory for Harry, bias — both unconscious and intentional — had always been a part of Meghan’s life.

When he first started seeing her, Harry, sensitive to even the slightest hint of prejudice, had fallouts within his own circle. When some questioned his new relationship, and whether she was suitable, he would wonder, “Is this about race? Is it snobbery?” An old friend of Harry’s spent an afternoon gossiping about Meghan, making disparaging remarks about her Hollywood background. Word got back to Harry, and the prince immediately cut him off. If he was willing to confront those close to him, when it came to the media, Harry was poised for outright war.

***

When Harry decided to make an official statement, the only stumbling block was Prince Charles. On a diplomatic tour in the Middle East, the Prince of Wales and the Duchess of Cornwall had just arrived in Bahrain to meet the country’s King Hamad bin Isa al-Khalifa. It was a critical moment that had been in the works for months. A statement from Kensington Palace condemning the press and, in the same breath, confirming Harry’s new girlfriend would all but eliminate coverage of Prince Charles’s tour of the Gulf.The Palace decided to go ahead with the statement nonetheless, much of which was drafted by Harry himself. Charles learnt of it just 20 minutes before it went out. Sure enough, as soon as Harry put out his declaration, the statement dominated the news cycle. The team at Clarence House, which had spent months putting together Prince Charles’s tour in the hopes that it would be covered significantly, was crushed. While disappointed that his son didn’t wait for him to come back, Charles also understood that the situation with Meghan had reached a tipping point. Harry had felt the need to prioritise the woman he loved over duty to the greater royal family.

***
..
Code:
Almost immediately they were almost obsessed with each other,” a friend said. “It was as if Harry was in a trance.” Meghan called one of her girlfriends. “Do I sound crazy when I say this could have legs?” she asked.
Yes, obsession is definitely a word I would love to hear describing a new relationship, sigh....and if Harry were in a trance, that’s problematic also.

How on earth would the authors know what Meghan was thinking when she went to KP if she didn’t speak in some way to them? Unless they are putting words in her mouth...

That last part makes me so angry! There was NO reason Harry couldn’t have waited, and if he felt urgently about this, then he should have spoken to his father first - and not 20 minutes before, if it was even H or spoke to Charles. This is unbelievably disrespectful - and it’s foreshadowing events if this past January
  #539  
Old 07-26-2020, 03:32 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Manchester, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,469
Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Claude View Post
I very much like the idea of a royal family, yeah I am making this claim from my perch in a republican country... but is it really OK to obligate someone who is not the monarch or heir apparent to serve the monarchy as a supporting player? If a spare wants to do that and there is a role for him or her, then great but if not, then the lesson for future generations is learn to manage those roles and transitions.
Until 100 years or so ago, it was quite unusual for a younger son of an aristocratic family - not just the royals - to have a job, unless it was in the Armed Forces, or sometimes in the church, or politics, or occasionally the law. A daughter would certainly not have had a job, other than doing charity work. A lot of time was spent huntin' shootin' and fishin', doing the London Season, etc.

It's still all quite new. The previous Dukes of Kent and Gloucester stayed in the Armed Forces. There wasn't an issue with Princess Margaret because an upper-class woman of her generation wouldn't have expected to do anything other than charity work. The idea of a separate role for a younger sibling of the monarch or future monarch is still quite new. If Harry had wanted to stay in the Armed Forces, or do something like being an air ambulance pilot, or get a professional job in an office, I think it would have been fine, though.
  #540  
Old 07-26-2020, 03:41 PM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
The latest extract is all about H&M meeting and their first few dates:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/n...date-xm7lznkvm



...Almost immediately they were almost obsessed with each other,” a friend said. “It was as if Harry was in a trance.” Meghan called one of her girlfriends. “Do I sound crazy when I say this could have legs?” she asked.
That doesn't sound too healthy
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