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  #501  
Old 07-26-2020, 10:13 AM
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Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACO View Post
Sometimes itís not what you say but how you say it. Iím sure everyone here has been in situation where the words might not be bad but whatís implied is offensive. I know I have.

No one except William and Harry knows how that conversation truly went down. William saying ďthat girlĒ could have been interpreted as ďthat [kind of] girl.Ē And what did that mean? Is that the situation? We have no idea but people go on about how close these brothers supposedly were. Therefore they know each other and the tones they take.

I, like many, think itís odd that such a simple question would cause such conflict between brothers but again none of use know the whole story. Harry very well could have overreacted. Or William could have been very snobby. Or a combination of both.

They human.
All in all, it remains very unfortunate that while initially they seemed to have mended their relationship somewhat; around the wedding it seemed to have turned rather sour; never to recover (at least until now).

Nonetheless, I do notice the similarities between William supposed 'this girl' and Meghan's supposed 'this family'...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
She didnít do anything that was that bad. Iím fine with her snub, because sheís human...and she and her husband had been treated badly by the Sussexes.
I don't think there is harm in admitting that the Cambridges could have handled that joined engagement better even while understanding while they behaved as they did: they clearly were immensely disappointed in Harry and Meghan and were not willing to play the game of being all smiles - as Meghan who had her game face on. While I thought Meghan was rather over-the-top in trying to pretend all was well (while the whole world knew it was not); the Cambridges could have made a little more of an effort to pretend they were not at war with each other.
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  #502  
Old 07-26-2020, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by RandyDrx View Post
I agree, while Harry and Meghan might be a big deal in the UK simply because they are royals, they are basically a small fish in a big pond in the US, a country that rejects the concept of monarchy and prefers the glamour of celebrity rather than royalty.

But Harry and Meghan are celebrities too! They are just one additional celebrity couple in a city like L.A. which is already full of those. In that sense, I agree they don't have the same status there as they would have in the UK or even in another Commonwealth realm like Canada.


Going by the reports that Meghan allegedly told her friends she was looking for a British catch, I honestly think she would have been better off marrying a wealthy (non-royal) duke or earl (or their heirs if any were available). She would have her own "big house" then, which ironically she did not in the RF, could pursue her own charity projects and, at the same time, would still be a socialite and could even live part-time only in the UK without any major strings attached. She completely misunderstood, however, what life in the RF would be like which, despite all the privilege and official status the Family gets, can be surprisingly frugal and restrictive.
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  #503  
Old 07-26-2020, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by ACO View Post
Sometimes itís not what you say but how you say it. Iím sure everyone here has been in situation where the words might not be bad but whatís implied is offensive. I know I have.

No one except William and Harry knows how that conversation truly went down. William saying ďthat girlĒ could have been interpreted as ďthat [kind of] girl.Ē And what did that mean? Is that the situation? We have no idea but people go on about how close these brothers supposedly were. Therefore they know each other and the tones they take.

I, like many, think itís odd that such a simple question would cause such conflict between brothers but again none of use know the whole story. Harry very well could have overreacted. Or William could have been very snobby. Or a combination of both.

They human.
I agree that someoneís tone of voice is important, but without any reason to suspect that William said ďthis girlĒ with a snotty, nasty attitude, Iím proceeding as if he just said it off-handedly. Given Harryís sensitivity, I find it much likelier that he completely overreacted than that William took an attitude.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
I don't think there is harm in admitting that the Cambridges could have handled that joined engagement better even while understanding while they behaved as they did: they clearly were immensely disappointed in Harry and Meghan and were not willing to play the game of being all smiles - as Meghan who had her game face on. While I thought Meghan was rather over-the-top in trying to pretend all was well (while the whole world knew it was not); the Cambridges could have made a little more of an effort to pretend they were not at war with each other.
No, thatís true. I guess what Iím saying is more that I wonít criticize William and Kate for their coolness/snobbery. Could they have put on happy faces and pretend? Yes, but theyíre only human, and I think theyíd had just about enough of H and M, especially after the fact that they chose not to do the procession as H and M were upset about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
Roya Nikkhah, the times royal reporter, who seems to have read the whole book, or certainly more than has been released so far (not a surprise given The Times are serialising it) has put up the following article saying that royal aides tries to persuade H&M to meet with Thomas Markle before the engagement announcement as they knew it had to handled carefully and sensitively:

At the time of the Sussexesí wedding, a senior royal source told this newspaper: ďWe repeatedly sat down with Harry and Meghan before the engagement announcement to say this needed to be handled sensitively, but that it had to be handled. We desperately asked them to engage with Thomas, but they wouldnít. Aides also offered to go personally and see him to try and find a way to protect him. There is genuine disbelief and bemusement in the household at the coupleís approach to him and that Harry has still not met his father-in-law.Ē
***
Another aide said: ďThomas is troubled, but Harry and Meghan would not engage in the issue of going out to see him and for Harry to meet him. It was raised before their engagement and again constantly in the months afterwards, leading up to the wedding. Everyone knew it would be a huge issue that would explode if they didnít address it and deal with it.Ē


***
The Sussexes declined to comment.



https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/n...rkle-9ln70lf6j

Meghan cut her father out of her life and that was IT, like it has been for other people. This account is really sad, and it makes Meghan look like a hypocrite because there are many reports that she encouraged Harry to bond with his father. It also makes Harry look terrible for not encouraging Meghan to bend a little, to try with her father. He didnít even want to meet him. Sigh.
  #504  
Old 07-26-2020, 10:31 AM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
No, thatís true. I guess what Iím saying is more that I wonít criticize William and Kate for their coolness/snobbery. Could they have put on happy faces and pretend? Yes, but theyíre only human, and I think theyíd had just about enough of H and M, especially after the fact that they chose not to do the procession as H and M were upset about it.
As they did agree not to do the procession, I think they might have tried a bit harder to smile and be ok.. but it was clear that Harry anyway wasn't happy, even though they HAD agreed to give up the procession. Meghan's smile I'm afraid looked very fake... as if she was worried about the rift in the family looking bad.. so she overdid the smiling...It looked odd when Harry looked cross and upset and Will and Kate looked tense and unhappy...
  #505  
Old 07-26-2020, 10:36 AM
ACO ACO is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
I agree that someoneís tone of voice is important, but without any reason to suspect that William said ďthis girlĒ with a snotty, nasty attitude, Iím proceeding as if he just said it off-handedly. Given Harryís sensitivity, I find it much likelier that he completely overreacted than that William took an attitude.
Maybe. Iím just saying we donít know but Iím willing to bet itís a little bit of both.
  #506  
Old 07-26-2020, 10:38 AM
Majesty
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
No, thatís true. I guess what Iím saying is more that I wonít criticize William and Kate for their coolness/snobbery. Could they have put on happy faces and pretend? Yes, but theyíre only human, and I think theyíd had just about enough of H and M, especially after the fact that they chose not to do the procession as H and M were upset about it.

I think William and especially Kate felt genuinely angry about the stunt H&M had pulled with their Sussex Royal statement and the terms therein and with their decision to bail out of the Family. After all, William will one day inherit the Crown and anything that looks bad on the Crown and the Court ultimately hurts him and his immediate family in the long run.

Kate, I think, is very protective of her husband, her children and her own future position as queen consort (for which she has worked very hard; let be honest about it and not ignore that she has her own self-interest in play too). It is a natural human reaction under those circumstances that she would be angry and it is actually positive that she did not try to fake or hide how she felt about it. The Queen Mother also gave the cold shoulder to David and Wallis long after the abdication and never made amends with them.

Having said that, if it were not for this book, I personally would not have noticed a public snub of the Duchess of Sussex by the Duchess of Cambridge in the Commonwealth service. Despite her anger, Kate handled it very discreetly, which is in her nature, I think.
  #507  
Old 07-26-2020, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I think William and, especially Kate, felt genuinely angry about the stunt H&M had pulled with their Sussex Royal statement and the terms therein and with their decision to bail out on the Family. After all, William will one day inherit the Crown and anything that looks bad on the Crown and the Court ultimately hurts him and his immediate family in the long run.



Kate, I think, is very protective of her husband, her children and her own future position as queen consort (for which she has worked very hard; let be honest about it and not ignore that she has her own self-interest in play too). It is a natural human reaction under those circumstances that she would be angry and it is actually positive that she did not try to fake her reaction. The Queen Mother also gave the cold shoulder to Edward and Wallis long after the abdication and never made amends with them.



Having said that, if it were not for this book, I personally would not have noticed a public snub to the Duchess of Sussex by the Duchess of Cambridge in the Commonwealth service. Despite her anger, Kate handled it very discreetly, which is in her nature, I think.

I agree with all of this. By all reports, William was furious, something I think itís easier for a brother (and sister-in-law) to be as opposed to a father and grandmother. Oh, Iím sure HM and Charles were angry, too, but that anger would have been mixed with confusion and hurt.

Kate should be protective of her husband, etc...- and itís good that sheís protective of her future position, of the monarchy in general. Thatís how the institution survives - hence why HM didnít give Harry and Meghan close to anything they really wanted. Iím sure she was also upset for Charles and the Queenl The Sussexes behavior, their disdainful words indicating almost a loathing for the Monarchy, must have been very hurtful...

I didnít watch the service, just saw highlights, but I donít think I would have noticed anything if it hadnít been brought up here or elsewhere as Iím not that observant when it comes to this kind of thing.
  #508  
Old 07-26-2020, 11:06 AM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACO View Post
Maybe. Iím just saying we donít know but Iím willing to bet itís a little bit of both.
But if William was really saying these things with a hostile attitude, why did Harry ever think that he and his brother were going to have a relationship in the future? Why did Harry say that the RF were the family that Meg had never had, if he believed that his brother was snobbishly hostile to his girlfriend from the first?

It really doesn't compute, that OTOH Harry's saying that his fiancee has never had a good loving family and that the RF have been warm and welcoming to her.. and On the other hand, he knows that his brother has been snobby and snotty about her from the beginning,...
  #509  
Old 07-26-2020, 11:16 AM
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As much as I'm not a Dan Wooten fan he raises a point I came across in all this weekends news and stories:
https://twitter.com/danwootton/statu...16365406277632

"Many of the stories now confirmed by Harry and Meghan in the book were denied at the time. Given the author Scobie has lied to The Times about his age this weekend (he’s 39 not 33) I wouldn’t trust a word of this hagiography. The author and the subjects both tell fibs! Hilarious!"


Omid Scoobie lied about his age to The Times in an interview published this weekend, okay no biggie but perhaps worth bearing that in mind when we read what he has written.

The Daily Mail is pointing out that many of the details are so intimate that either H&M tell a wide circle of friends everything they do or the couple have had some input into the book (could be interesting if this has any impact on the legal case between M & DM)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...han-Harry.html

Intimate details laid out in a bombshell royal biography raise questions as to whether the Duke and Duchess of Sussex may have had more involvement than has been admitted - despite the couple insisting they 'did not contribute'.

Particulars of voicemails Meghan sent to her father and tense conversations between Harry and William have been published in Finding Freedom, extracts of which were serialised by the Times and the Sunday Times this weekend.

Authors Omid Scobie and Carolyn Durand say they have spoken to more than 100 sources including 'close friends of Harry and Meghan's, royal aides and palace staff (past and present)', with all the information in the book having 'at least two sources.'

The Duke and Duchess deny giving any interviews or contributing to the book directly, but the intimate nature of some details raises questions over who the sources were - and whether Harry and Megan gave them their blessing before they revealed such closely guarded insights to the couple's private lives.

Extraordinary personal details littered throughout Finding Freedom include particulars of the moment the Meghan confessed she wrote her estranged father Thomas Markle one final message while on FaceTime in a bathtub.

Details which raise these questions include:

Meghan's FaceTime confession from a bathtub that she texted her father once more before her wedding

Details of the 'barrage of voicemails' Meghan left Thomas Markle: 'We're going to get you safely to London'

Conversations between William and Harry, in which the Duke of Cambridge told him not to rush things with 'this girl' Meghan

Descriptions of 'perfect pose' Meghan struck as she stretched after discussing marriage with Harry in Africa

Meghan telling a friend in March: 'I gave up my entire life for this family. I was willing to do whatever it takes. But here we are. It's very sad'

Particulars of the Prince's anguish after reading comments dubbing him a 'disgrace to the royal family'



  #510  
Old 07-26-2020, 11:18 AM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
Kate should be protective of her husband, etc...- and it’s good that she’s protective of her future position, of the monarchy in general.

I didn't mean to criticize Kate. I was just being candid about how I see her. She is very discreet (very "professional" if you will in her role), plays by the rules and is apparently a very devoted mother to her children (all the qualities one would identify with a "traditional" royal wife). But she is also in my opinion someone who clearly knew and knows what she wanted/wants and has acted/acts accordingly. Take it as you wish, but, going back to the main point, she had reasons to be frustrated with the Sussexes and even more so after this book has come out as it is mostly an attack on her and her family more so than on any other member of the Firm.
  #511  
Old 07-26-2020, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I didn't mean to criticize Kate. I was just being candid about how I see her. She is very discreet (very "professional" if you will in her role), plays by the rules and is apparently a very devoted mother to her children (all the qualities one would identify with a "traditional" royal wife). But she is also in my opinion someone who clearly knew and knows what she wanted/wants and has acted/acts accordingly. Take it as you wish, but, going back to the main point, she had reasons to be frustrated with the Sussexes and even more so after this book has come out as it is mostly an attack on her and her family more so than any other in the Firm.
Oh, I know you weren’t - I was agreeing with you, but just adding onto it!
  #512  
Old 07-26-2020, 11:33 AM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I
Having said that, if it were not for this book, I personally would not have noticed a public snub of the Duchess of Sussex by the Duchess of Cambridge in the Commonwealth service. Despite her anger, Kate handled it very discreetly, which is in her nature, I think.
I wouldn't say it was a BIG public snub, but there was a visible tension between the 2 couples. Harry looked unhappy... Meghan was smiling away in a rather OTT way.. Will and Kate looked tense as if they were trying to keep their cool.... Edward and Sophie seemed to be gamely trying to keep up a conversaton with tehm all...
but at other things during that visit, Harry looked tense and rather unhappy much of the time while Meg smiled a lot. So I think that he was angry with whatever was going on with his family backstage, during the visit, or perhaps he was unhappy with being back in the UK.. and Meghan was smiling and smiling..
.
  #513  
Old 07-26-2020, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ACO View Post
Maybe. Iím just saying we donít know but Iím willing to bet itís a little bit of both.
And yet after this apparently happened and they had got engaged H&M still said the RF have been supportive:
https://time.com/5038618/prince-harr...ew-transcript/

BBC: You have met each otherís families, I imagine?

Markle: Yes, his family has been so welcoming.

Prince Harry: Youíve met quite a few of them actually.

Markle: I have ó on both sides of his family. On his momís side as well, which has been really important to me too. The family has been great, and over the past year and half, weíve just had a really nice time getting to know them and progressively helping me feel a part of not just the institution but also part of the family, which has been really, really special.

Prince Harry: Trying to track them down to make sure that they are around at the same time she is popping in without telling too many people ó weíve actually done incredibly well to ensure youíve met all the key people.


***
Markle: We were able to really get to know each other that way. But also then to go and have friends over for dinner or to go to his family for tea. Any of those sort of things. Just to take the ó take the time to be able to go on long country walks and just talk.

Prince Harry: Weíve been ó weíve been all over the place.

BBC: Have you met the Queen?

Markle: I have, yes.

Prince Harry: A couple of times.

Markle: Yes, true, a couple of times.

BBC: What was that like?

Markle: Itís incredible, I think, you know, a.) to be able to meet her through his lens, not just with his honor and respect for her as the monarch, but the love that he has for her as his grandmother. All of those layers have been so important for me so that when I met her I had such a deep understanding and, of course, incredible respect for being able to have that time with her. And weíve had a really ó sheís an incredible woman.

Prince Harry: And the corgis took to you straight away.

Markle: Thatís true.

Prince Harry: Iíve spent the last 33 years being barked at. This one walks in, absolutely nothing Ö

Markle: Just laying on my feet during tea, it was very sweet.

Prince Harry: Just wagging tails and I was just like ugh


***

BBC: What was it like introducing Meghan to your father and your brother?

Prince Harry: What was it like? It was exciting I mean Iíve ó you know Iíd been seeing her for a period of time when I literally didnít tell anybody at all. And then William was longing to meet her and so was Catherine, so you know, being our neighbors, we managed to get that in a couple of ó well quite a few times now and Catherine has been absolutely Ö

Markle: Sheís been wonderful.

Prince Harry: Ö amazing, as has William as well, you know, fantastic support. And then my father as well, we had a couple of ó no, more than that Ö

Markle: Weíve had Ö

Prince Harry: Ö A handful of teas and meetings and all sorts of gatherings over at his place as well. So no the family together have been absolutely, you know, a solid support and my grandparents as well have been ó have been wonderful throughout this whole process, and theyíve known for quite some time. So how they Ė how they havenít told anybody is, again, a miracle in itself. But no, the whole family have come together and have been a huge amount of support.

Markle: Theyíve been amazing.
  #514  
Old 07-26-2020, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I wouldn't say it was a BIG public snub, but there was a visible tension between the 2 couples. Harry looked unhappy... Meghan was smiling away in a rather OTT way.. Will and Kate looked tense as if they were trying to keep their cool.... Edward and Sophie seemed to be gamely trying to keep up a conversaton with tehm all...
but at other things during that visit, Harry looked tense and rather unhappy much of the time while Meg smiled a lot. So I think that he was angry with whatever was going on with his family backstage, during the visit, or perhaps he was unhappy with being back in the UK.. and Meghan was smiling and smiling..
.
Not just between the couples , Sophie was also not Meghan's best friend that day .
  #515  
Old 07-26-2020, 11:55 AM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post

[I]BBC: What was it like introducing Meghan to your father and your brother?

Prince Harry: What was it like? It was exciting I mean I’ve — you know I’d been seeing her for a period of time when I literally didn’t tell anybody at all. And then William was longing to meet her and so was Catherine, so you know, being our neighbors, we managed to get that in a couple of — well quite a few times now and Catherine has been absolutely

Markle: She’s been wonderful.

Prince Harry: … amazing, as has William as well, you know, fantastic support. And then my father as well, we had a couple of — no, more than that …
so lots of gush about how amazing the whole RF has been to her.....
  #516  
Old 07-26-2020, 11:56 AM
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All I can say is this is such a sad situation and that the tensions between the Sussexes and the Windsors seem to be almost broken. It will be a very long road back for their relationship.
  #517  
Old 07-26-2020, 12:01 PM
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You know, in the beginning I thought Meghan came across as strong, articulate, composed and would be a wonderful asset to Harry if he really is such a loose cannon, which I have no way of really knowing.

From the outside looking in, it seems like they are just plain greedy, be it for money or status or whatever tickles their fancy on a moments notice.

Now, unfortunately, Iíll add vindictive to my already low opinion of them. For the life of me, I canít see the joy a person gets from that.
  #518  
Old 07-26-2020, 12:04 PM
Aristocracy
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akina21 View Post
I think another issue William may have had with this relationship was Meghan's close connection to Canadian gossip blogger Lainey via the Mulroneys . She was the one who published a so called Blind Item on her page about somebody smiling , going shopping , not inviting the newcomer along only for the newcomer later finding out that they went to the same shopping place . This story seems to be in this book now . I'd be very wary too if my brother's girlfriend of a few months started leaking info to gossip bloggers .
I also think Lainey is a source for the book . In one of the published sections so far a friend is talking about viper courtiers . Viper courtiers is a pure Laineyism , she always wrote how House Sussex was fighting against viper courtiers .

This is very possible. Lainey has been very vocal about the subtle and not-so-subtle racism in press coverage of Meghan. That's a good thing, but in my read of her columns she hasn't been too shy about implying that most of the BRF is racist too. She has publicly stated however that she does not have a close relationship with Jessica Mulroney even though she has worked with Ben Mulroney for years. So who knows? There are sources, some from outside of H and M's circle and many from inside. That's pretty obvious.
  #519  
Old 07-26-2020, 12:08 PM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Missjersey View Post
You know, in the beginning I thought Meghan came across as strong, articulate, composed and would be a wonderful asset to Harry if he really is such a loose cannon, which I have no way of really knowing.

From the outside looking in, it seems like they are just plain greedy, be it for money or status or whatever tickles their fancy on a moments notice.

Now, unfortunately, Iíll add vindictive to my already low opinion of them. For the life of me, I canít see the joy a person gets from that.
I dont think she's all that strong..and I honestly found her giving off a fake vibe from Day 1.. That interview I remember I found mega gushy even by Royal interview standards.
But if we are to believe her, this strong clever woman just couldn't cope with negative press or hostilty...even though actresses are bound to get hostile and negative reviews at times...
and this woman who was apparently getting on so well with all the RF, within a year or so, was unhappy with most of them.. particularly Will and K.
  #520  
Old 07-26-2020, 12:22 PM
Serene Highness
 
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“Came across” is what (my opinion) I perceived in the SHORT time beginning pre engagement. I thought she was phony by engagement and marrying for a title to promote herself.

Denville, sorry, I meant to quote you
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