Finding Freedom: Harry and Meghan and the Making of A Modern Royal Family

[DuchessMia]

This is the part that’s disgusting. The belief that he should abandon his wife and only child to go back to the UK. It’s madness and no decent human being would do something so terrible

It is disgusting. Harry loves his wife and child. They are his family too! Tabs suggesting this aren’t doing themselves any favors. It shows they don’t see Meghan and Archie as having value. They are placing the BRF above them, and as a WOC, that disgusts me greatly because I have to sneaking suspicion why. But I know I don’t have to consider this seriously because it’s not going to happen. Even if they divorce, which I doubt, Meghan won’t return to the U.K. and Archie will remain with her. Harry won’t want to be so far away from his child.

 

[Denville]

Just my two cents, but I don't really see why William and Kate couldn't invite Harry and Meghan over for lunch or dinner. Or why Kate couldn't visit a new sister in law. Is it their responsibility Meghan felt welcome/safe/needed guidance? Probably not.. But if I had been Kate and if I had lived through the nonsense with the press and if I had read what was written about my new sister-in-law, I'd visit. I have a feeling (and my personal opinion), it wasn't guidance Meghan wanted. Just someone who had been in the same position.
By the time Meghan had Archie, Louis was 1 year old. He wasn't a newborn baby. We have a baby so we can't visit seems like a flimsy excuse for two people who have staff and a nanny. I'm sure they managed to visit other friends and family.

so if "Kate didnt visit" how come Harry was assuring us at the engagement that all the RF had met Meg and they all loved her and wanted to get to know her better..

 

[Marengo]

I suppose there are 100s of other ways that people can meet and talk without paying a visit to one or the other?

 

[Denville]

It is disgusting. Harry loves his wife and child. They are his family too! Tabs suggesting this aren’t doing themselves any favors. It shows they don’t see Meghan and Archie as having value. They are placing the BRF above them, and as a WOC, that disgusts me greatly because I have to sneaking suspicion why. But I know I don’t have to consider this seriously because it’s not going to happen. Even if they divorce, which I doubt, Meghan won’t return to the U.K. and Archie will remain with her. Harry won’t want to be so far away from his child.

Who is suggesting that he abandon his wife and child?

 

[Grousewood]

Currently I don't see that happening . Harry really seems to have way too many issues with his role as William's younger brother and the drop in status once George , Charlotte and Louis were born . And nobody can change that but Harry and he feels too much like a hard done by victim to bring sense into it .

I agree, but why would he find it hard to deal with being second fiddle? He's known this all his life...most likely that came from Meghan, if it is true that it was said at all. Reading the excerpts this morning I sadly conclude that they are working their way out of the Royal Family and not just royal work. It is true that we can't assume the writers have got it all right, but there was enough hurtful content to tell me there will now be new walls between them and the RF. Unless the marriage ends I doubt we will see Harry returning, and for the sake of their son I hope it will last. Even then he would stay in the USA to be near his child(ren). So sad.

 

[Mirabel]

Just my two cents, but I don't really see why William and Kate couldn't invite Harry and Meghan over for lunch or dinner. Or why Kate couldn't visit a new sister in law. Is it their responsibility Meghan felt welcome/safe/needed guidance?

But why was this responsibility assigned to the Cambridges?
What about other members of the RF? What about Sophie, or Anne?

When Harry and Meghan were living in Nott Cott, there was speculation that they got along well with Eugenie and Jack.
But although all the Yorks were often out and about in London, I never saw a single time when they were photographed with the Sussexes.

In fact, I can't remember any times when Meghan was pictured with any other members of the family, except for official engagements.

 

[Denville]

I agree, but why would he find it hard to deal with being second fiddle? He's known this all his life...most likely that came from Meghan, if it is true that it was said at all. Reading the excerpts this morning I sadly conclude that they are working th. So sad.

Its possible that Harry's always had some resentment to the idea that he was second fiddle even if he said otherwise. I felt at times that he was trying too hard to show himself, when he started royal duties.. that he wanted to be loved adn noticed, which may have been a subconscious resentment of the fact that he wasn't going to be first. And now in the past couple of years, it is closer to the time that his father may become King and his brother will be POW... and it has hit him more now. Plus yes Meg may have added to his unhappiness with being second.
I wouldn't wish for a new marriage to break up.. but what if Harry isn't all that happy in the US? He always spoke of (if he weren't royal) working in Africa.. rather than LA.. and since they haven't' been able to start working.. Or if he feels depressed and wants to go back to the UK would Meg come with him?

But why was this responsibility assigned to the Cambridges?
What about other members of the RF? What about Sophie, or Anne?

When Harry and Meghan were living in Nott Cott, there was speculation that they got along well with Eugenie and Jack.
But although all the Yorks were often out and about in London, I never saw a single time when they were photographed with the Sussexes.

In fact, I can't remember any times when Meghan was pictured with any other members of the family, except for official engagements.

I think that some of the press/public who watch royals, tend to imagine that because 2 royals are the same age, or palled around when they were children.. or lvie near each other, they are going to be friends.
However Wil and Harry DID seem to be very close as kids, bonded by the death of their mother and being close in age. One might not expect Anne or Sophie to befriend Meg but Will and Kate were another matter...

I thougt that they were close as they grew up. I was surprised when Harry said that he was "looking forward to getting to know Kate" when she and W got engaged.. as she had been dating Will for years and years and i would have thought that Harry must have met her often and gotten to know her.. But it seems not.
So maybe it is not that odd that Will and Harry aren't so close now and Will and Kate didn't form a friendship with Harry and Meg...
But all this seems to contradict what H said 2 years ago when he and Meg were engaged... where he seemed to give the impression that Meg had met all the RF and the Spencers and they all loved her and it was all oh so happy... DId he grossly exaggerate how fond the RF were of her back then and how happy she had been with them? or did the RF's attitude change?

 

[Betsypaige]

I agree, but why would he find it hard to deal with being second fiddle? He's known this all his life...most likely that came from Meghan, if it is true that it was said at all. Reading the excerpts this morning I sadly conclude that they are working their way out of the Royal Family and not just royal work. It is true that we can't assume the writers have got it all right, but there was enough hurtful content to tell me there will now be new walls between them and the RF. Unless the marriage ends I doubt we will see Harry returning, and for the sake of their son I hope it will last. Even then he would stay in the USA to be near his child(ren). So sad.

Logic doesn’t apply to human emotions. Harry feels like he feels - who knows why? I said in a previous thread that I think Meghan encourages these feelings in him, but I think they were already there. Harry is human; like so many ordinary people, he’s insecure about being loved and valued, and insecurity isn’t easily dealt with. You can’t just snap your fingers and make it vanish; no matter how many times your loved ones reassure you, you don’t believe it.

 

[MidwestMom]

I'm not sure which thread this belongs in, but here goes: it's not easy being newly married and living surrounded by your new husband's family. Been there, done that. It takes time to establish yourselves as a couple, to 'put your own stamp' on your new life, so to speak. It can take years. Add to that the stress of a new baby, and you can become overwhelmed. What I don't understand is why they felt they had to live in another country to do this. Couldn't they have settled somewhere in the Commonwealth? Canada seemed like a good compromise. Had they stayed in the UK and given it some time, they may have found they had more support in Harry's extended family than they originally thought.

 

[TLLK]

Just my two cents, but I don't really see why William and Kate couldn't invite Harry and Meghan over for lunch or dinner. Or why Kate couldn't visit a new sister in law. Is it their responsibility Meghan felt welcome/safe/needed guidance? Probably not.. But if I had been Kate and if I had lived through the nonsense with the press and if I had read what was written about my new sister-in-law, I'd visit. I have a feeling (and my personal opinion), it wasn't guidance Meghan wanted. Just someone who had been in the same position.
By the time Meghan had Archie, Louis was 1 year old. He wasn't a newborn baby. We have a baby so we can't visit seems like a flimsy excuse for two people who have staff and a nanny. I'm sure they managed to visit other friends and family.

As stated earlier in the thread, apparently the Cambridges invited the couple to dinner at Amner Hall where Catherine made a vegan dinner knowing Meghan was partial to vegan food. Also the couple held a party for the couple along with families and the children in the Sussex wedding prior to the event. It appears that they were making an effort.

 

[HighGoalHighDreams]

I'm not sure which thread this belongs in, but here goes: it's not easy being newly married and living surrounded by your new husband's family. Been there, done that. It takes time to establish yourselves as a couple, to 'put your own stamp' on your new life, so to speak. It can take years. Add to that the stress of a new baby, and you can become overwhelmed. What I don't understand is why they felt they had to live in another country to do this. Couldn't they have settled somewhere in the Commonwealth? Canada seemed like a good compromise. Had they stayed in the UK and given it some time, they may have found they had more support in Harry's extended family than they originally thought.

They did not have legal status to stay in Canada. I guess they would have this problem in all or most other Commonwealth countries.

The days of a monarch assigning her family members "roles" that allow them to settle in countries where she is monarch are long over.

 

[Denville]

They did not have legal status to stay in Canada. I guess they would have this problem in all or most other Commonwealth countries.

The days of a monarch assigning her family members "roles" that allow them to settle in countries where she is monarch are long over.

True but nothing to stop them from moving to a commonwealth country and going through the normal channels to get permission to live there...But it seems they picked Canada first because Meg knew it.. or because it was a step toward the US where they really wanted to get to.. and when the Can govt stopped giving them free security which they'd had at first, they moved...

 

[Heavs]

I think most of the articles discussing the potential for Harry to come back alone and become a working royal again mean doing so in the sad event of a divorce, not that Harry should just abandon Meghan and Archie for no reason. Or some sort of arrangement where he's living a half in half out life but they aren't.

It seems to be taken for granted that Meghan a) does not want to ever come back to the UK for anything more than a holiday and b) that she wouldn't be accepted as a working royal again, which seems like reasonable speculation given how events have unfolded so far but has no actual factual basis right now.

 

[Denville]

I think most of the articles discussing the potential for Harry to come back alone and become a working royal again mean doing so in the sad event of a divorce, not that Harry should just abandon Meghan and Archie for no reason. Or some sort of arrangement where he's living a half in half out life but they aren't.

It seems to be taken for granted that Meghan a) does not want to ever come back to the UK for anything more than a holiday and b) that she wouldn't be accepted as a working royal again, which seems like reasonable speculation given how events have unfolded so far but has no actual factual basis right now.

I think that if Meg and Harry found that life in the US didn't work out at all financially and they weren't able to earn enough to fund their lifestyle.. they'd come back to the UK and live at Frogmore.. and if asked, they might go back to Royal duties...But I dotn think that shed' ever be all that happy there... adn it might not work out...

 

[Alison H]

This was on the front pages of the Sunday papers, and some of today's papers. It's been pushed off most of tomorrow's front pages by the decision to make people returning from Spain quarantine for 2 weeks, and a story about a cat with coronavirus.


The cat is getting considerably more attention than Harry and Meghan.

 

[ACO]

I mean it has been three days with some days having 11 and 12 pages dedicated in one paper. What more is there to talk about? Honestly it went on 2 days too long.

 

[lirienn]

They bring each other's worst traits out. Now I view Harry differently. He was a second fiddle, no purpose, jealous pampered. Frustration is rising. Meghan just played it up telling him he's better they could do so so much (what exactly? William will be king). Meghan is a diva who played Harry. She had nothing to lose - the show was ending and she wasn't getting new roles. Harry however had more to lose. Wonder if in a few years he'd be happy being always overshadowed by her (if she goes to galas etc) or reading in press he's less intelligent and interesting.
This novel is a pity party and not painting them as couple who wanted to do so much for others. It's clear they told their story.
I believe Harry needed a strong-willed wife who wouldn't be so fame hungry with narcissistic traits. He now looks like a fool who was after all about money status in the royal family. I wonder how much he already sees (the book was written some time ago after all) and how he'll feel when the normal post-covid 19 life returns. Cressida had such a classy wedding.

 

[Missjersey]

Logic doesn’t apply to human emotions. Harry feels like he feels - who knows why? I said in a previous thread that I think Meghan encourages these feelings in him, but I think they were already there. Harry is human; like so many ordinary people, he’s insecure about being loved and valued, and insecurity isn’t easily dealt with. You can’t just snap your fingers and make it vanish; no matter how many times your loved ones reassure you, you don’t believe it.

Boy oh boy do I agree. I also think she encourages and I’ll leave it at that

 

[Sionevar]

Currently I don't see that happening. Harry really seems to have way too many issues with his role as William's younger brother and the drop in status once George, Charlotte and Louis were born. And nobody can change that but Harry and he feels too much like a hard done by victim to bring sense into it.

This is the one thing coming out of the book coverage I just can't get my head around.

It makes me wonder if any onboarding was done - if anyone at any point sat down with Harry and Meghan and said 'you have a role, you are appreciated and valued, but whatever you do, you must accept you will always play second fiddle to William and Kate'?

And my God, to be a second son in the British monarchy - that's still such a hugely important, influential role. What I could do with that platform and media presence...

The whole thing is just really sad.

 

[Betsypaige]

This is the one thing coming out of the book coverage I just can't get my head around.

It makes me wonder if any onboarding was done - if anyone at any point sat down with Harry and Meghan and said 'you have a role, you are appreciated and valued, but whatever you do, you must accept you will always play second fiddle to William and Kate'?

And my God, to be a second son in the British monarchy - that's still such a hugely important, influential role. What I could do with that platform and media presence...

The whole thing is just really sad.

I'm sure at some point along the way, even before Meghan came along, this was made clear to Harry......but, you can't make someone listen, you can't make someone believe.

 

[Zonk]

I just don't understand where all this is coming from.

We've always known that Harry was the more sensitive of the two brothers. That he would have walked away if given the opportunity but I always thought he would stick it out for William. But this Harry? What the heck?

He has always known that he was the spare and that attention would go to Wililam as they got older. That's why Diana spent more time with him. He has seen it happen to Andrew and the York Princesses. Why would he not think it would happen to him? The excerpts from this book border on ridiculous....Upset that he had to pay second fiddle to the others. No picture of him during the Christmas speech? He couldn't be bothered to see his Grandparents for Christmas!


How dare they slam their staff who believed in them, who worked for them?

Thinking the others are jealous of the Sussexes? HE seems to have forgotten how the Cambridge's were treated after they got married. All the excitement! The adulation! Thinking that they are more important the William ,Charles and the Queen?! Who the heck do they think they are?

The only star is the Queen!

This book has done them no favors. It does not make them look good AT ALL. And I agree with the general consensus...they will never be welcomed back in the royal fold as it relates to being working royals.

 

[Sionevar]

I'm sure at some point along the way, even before Meghan came along, this was made clear to Harry......but, you can't make someone listen, you can't make someone believe.

I also wonder if it's a perspective thing.

To us regular people out in the normal world, being the second son of a monarch seems like a fantastic, privileged thing.

Maybe, when you're in the system, and everything is about where you come in the line of succession, from what seat you have in the Abbey to what room you're given at Sandringham to when you're allowed to announce the new charity project you're launching, it becomes something you fixate on, not always with a good outcome.

 

[nightsky]

I can’t imagine Charles turning his back on his son!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mi...aive-meghan-markle-prince-harrys-22426142.amp

'Naive' Meghan Markle and Prince Harry's time in Royal Family is 'done and dusted'

 

[duchessrachel]

I think this book is going to hurt Harry and Meghan much more than the royal family. The excerpts I have read do not present them in a flattering light at all. They sound like a couple of petulant children who don't realize that the monarchy is about the Queen, not them.

well all this stuff about what the queen said to Harry as they tucked into roast beef, or how Meghan felt about Harry when they went on a date. How on earth can the authors know about those details and feelings, unless they are told by H and Meg or by their friends? Just as everyone knew that Di's friends would not have talked to Morton about her private life without her OK...

It is interesting, too, that Harry and Meghan have not sued over this book. They have sued over breaches of privacy before. Their mild statement about this book was not endorsed by them, compared to how they have reacted in the past to similar press reports, says to me they helped with this book in some way. I just hate that the Queen and Prince Philip are having to go through this all again at their age.

 

[Missjersey]

I also wonder if it's a perspective thing.

To us regular people out in the normal world, being the second son of a monarch seems like a fantastic, privileged thing.

Maybe, when you're in the system, and everything is about where you come in the line of succession, from what seat you have in the Abbey to what room you're given at Sandringham to when you're allowed to announce the new charity project you're launching, it becomes something you fixate on, not always with a good outcome.

It is beyond baffling. I often wonder if (pre Meghan) his every whim was granted and catered to growing up and he just expects... I get he was indulged but something is just not right with him IMO

 

[Madame Verseau]

It's funny for people to think the BRF are 100% blameless in this matter. The Windsors did rapid response to this book as opposed to the previous ones are showing the hit dogs are hollering. And no one from the BRF is threatening to sue. The public attacks only increase interest. And the US press is not calling the Sussexes the bad guys as opposed to the British press, which is probably what's upsetting the royals and the Rota. They have no influence with media beyond its borders.

 

[Betsypaige]

I also wonder if it's a perspective thing.

To us regular people out in the normal world, being the second son of a monarch seems like a fantastic, privileged thing.

Maybe, when you're in the system, and everything is about where you come in the line of succession, from what seat you have in the Abbey to what room you're given at Sandringham to when you're allowed to announce the new charity project you're launching, it becomes something you fixate on, not always with a good outcome.

The thing is, as disappointed as everyone was that Harry wanted to leave, they tried their best to make it work for he and Meghan...His frustration at the system is no excuse (not that you are saying it is) for treating his family so terribly

 

[nightsky]

It's funny for people to think the BRF are 100% blameless in this matter. The Windsors did rapid response to this book as opposed to the previous ones are showing the hit dogs are hollering. And no one from the BRF is threatening to sue. The public attacks only increase interest. And the US press is not calling the Sussexes the bad guys as opposed to the British press, which is probably what's upsetting the royals and the Rota. They have no influence with media beyond its borders.

I can tell you that the average American doesn’t care about the Sussex’s. The majority of us didn’t know who she was before she started dating Harry! I know many Americans who have been turned off by the behavior of the Sussex’s! To be honest, I think it was the Royal family that found their freedom!

 

[Betsypaige]

'Naive' Meghan Markle and Prince Harry's time in Royal Family is 'done and dusted'

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mi...aive-meghan-markle-prince-harrys-22426142.amp

I agree with all of this....there’s no way, even in the highly unlikely event that Harry wanted to return as a working Royal that it could ever work. Everyone now knows how H and M loathe the idea of a monarchy, how disdainful they are of the intuition and the people who represent it. They could never, ever be trusted ....They’ve burned professional and personal bridges, and it is far worse for Harry. Maybe he does continue to talk to his father, but imagine how Charles must feel now? What about his brother, his grandparents ? They have feelings, too, which Harry doesn’t seem to realize or care about...If he returns to the U.K., say for Christmas, he’s got an awful lot of mending to do.

I can tell you that the average American doesn’t care about the Sussex’s. The majority of us didn’t know who she was before she started dating Harry!

Exactly. Even under the best of circumstances, most Americans don’t care about any of the Royals. Given the toll the devastating pandemic has taken, the racial issues this country still faces, etc..., the media has far, far bigger fish to fry than to cover a D list celeb and her spoiled prince. The media are people, too...they’ve been sick, they’ve had loved ones die from Covid. H and M don’t rate a mention on any list of important things for our media to cover.

 

[Queen Claude]

It's funny for people to think the BRF are 100% blameless in this matter. The Windsors did rapid response to this book as opposed to the previous ones are showing the hit dogs are hollering. And no one from the BRF is threatening to sue. The public attacks only increase interest. And the US press is not calling the Sussexes the bad guys as opposed to the British press, which is probably what's upsetting the royals and the Rota. They have no influence with media beyond its borders.

The BRF members and courtiers are absolutely correct IMO in responding to Finding Freedom. Diana getting her side out via the Morton book put out a narrative that defined her husband and his family, and took years, if not decades, for many to realized that there were other sides to the story.