Finding Freedom: Harry and Meghan and the Making of A Modern Royal Family


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I don't know if they cooperated with this book or not but it looks like they did. It makes them look whiney, spoiled and petulant. Especially Harry - Meghan you can say didn't know much about the royal family so she might not know better. I think there's no way they can go back to the royals now and they need to be cut off completely. There's no reason not to - they've already put out a book that paints the royals in a negative light.
 
Wow, that's some classy joint the Duke and Duchess of Sussex had their blind date/first date together in.

Soho Houses's Dean Street Townhouse.

Thanks for the heads up on the wallpaper there Mr Scobie/Ms Durand.

I was feeling that "fear of missing out" thing about probably not being "good" enough to be a private member, or even just the guest of a member.

But now I'm ok about that.

Imagaine meeting someone for the first time surrounded by photos of female genitalia.

Yeah, real classy.


OK, I've now seen the wallpaper for myself and I'm going to give the Duke and Duchess a pass on this.

Yes, it's made up of both male and female genitalia - but you may not realise that at first.

Here is an "Architectural Digest" article about it.

However, don't open the link if you really do not wish to have these images in your mind.

Be edgy and provocative I guess, but really why bother, isn't that getting a bit passe too.


https://www-architecturaldigest-com...re-surrounded-by-this-on-their-first-date/amp

Soho House isn't some kind of brothel. It's a perfectly respectable and in fact very successful group of private members clubs, hotels and restaurants. It's expanding in spite of Covid.

The founder of Soho House, Nick Jones, is an old friend of Charles's and a donor to his charities. In fact Prince Charles opened the White City hotel which is part of the Solo House properties, and he is believed to be a member.
 
Either the authors have made half of it up or there are some major leaks coming from somewhere ... and it's hard to believe that they're coming from the royal staff, because you wouldn't leak stuff that makes you look bad. And the royal staff presumably did not sit in the bathroom whilst Meghan was in the bath!

What a mess all this is.

According to one of the papers today:


Finding Freedom claims there was no feud between the Duchesses of Cambridge and Sussex – they simply had nothing in common.

The book states that the press were too quick to blame the decision of the Sussexes to move to Windsor – removing themselves from the Kensington Palace umbrella – on the “duelling duchesses”, the authors say, when it was Harry who felt suffocated by his brother.

Ms Durand and Mr Scobie write: “The truth was that Meghan and Kate just didn’t know each other that well.”


That's interesting. I think the press have made a big deal about the fact that Kate and Meghan didn't become bosom buddies, which isn't fair to either of them. Just because your partners are siblings, or your partners are close friends, doesn't mean that you have to be best friends. It's lovely if that happens, but it often doesn't, especially if the two people have very different personalities. It doesn't mean that either of them are bad people, just that they're not each other's cup of tea.
 
The Sussexes have not been shy in taking legal action when they feel they have been wronged by the press publishing information relating to them so it will be interesting to see if they take any legal action regarding this book.
 
It wasn't Harry confirming Meghan as his girlfriend though. It was the media breaking the story.
It was Harry confirming that Meghan was his girlfriend by issuing a statement that Meghan had been abused and harassed since the news of their relationship broke. He issued the statement while Charles and Camilla were visiting Bahrain as part of their 2016 tour of the Middle East.


My question about this book: according to Scobie he had at least two sources for all his stories so who were the two people in the bathroom with Meghan, who then spoke to him, to tell us that she sent texts to her father from the bath?

Who else was in the room when Harry and The Queen had their private lunch?

Either the royal staff are leaking like sieves, Scobie is lying or Harry and Meghan have co-operated massively in the writing of this book ... either directly or by telling their friends what to say.

This smells of Diana and the Morton book all over again.
Two people would not have to be at the lunch or in the bathroom, it just means that Meghan and/or Harry relayed these incidents to two people, or in the case of Facetime, one of the sources could have been the party she was Facetime-ing with.

Nevertheless I do think that you are right that they did "massively" cooperate with the book, not merely by giving the greenlight to multiple friends to answer questions but the nitty-gritty details suggests to me that Harry or Meghan wordsmithed the responses.
 
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This book is Andrew Morton-Diana redux. You would think that Harry would have learned from his mother that this type of thing eventually backfires on you. JMHO
 
The original Morton book was Diana Her True Story which came out in 1992. She denied any involvement.

The second Morton book is the one in which he uses the tapes he made from the interviews she gave him for the first book.
 
This book is Andrew Morton-Diana redux. You would think that Harry would have learned from his mother that this type of thing eventually backfires on you. JMHO

I do wonder if P.Harry realizes this though...did anyone explain at some point that his mother also did some things that maybe didn't help in a constructive way (however understandable it was from a 'scorned spouse' point of view)..or did everybody think the subject too painful after Diana died?
 
I do wonder if P.Harry realizes this though...did anyone explain at some point that his mother also did some things that maybe didn't help in a constructive way (however understandable it was from a 'scorned spouse' point of view)..or did everybody think the subject too painful after Diana died?



I’m beginning to think that Meghan just encourages some of Harry’s worst impulses rather than being a stabilizing and rational force.

She could have made a huge impact by staying inside the family rather than blaming them for what seems to be everything. JMHO
 
I’m beginning to think that Meghan just encourages some of Harry’s worst impulses rather than being a stabilizing and rational force.

She could have made a huge impact by staying inside the family rather than blaming them for what seems to be everything. JMHO

Oh, I think that’s true....and probably vice versa as well. I think Meghan encourages Harry’s deep-seated insecurity about his place in the family, which seems to be at the root of so many of his actions. I suspect she plays up his fears that he’s not valued by the BRF as well as her own belief in him, and as a result, he thinks she can do no wrong, that his family are the bad guys. He enables her worst tendencies (ex: “whatever Meghan wants, Meghan gets”). Personally, I think they bring out the worst in each other.
 
I’m not sure what you’re referring to by “doors to manual” and Wisteria sisters. I agree with what you said in general, but Harry didn’t like it when anyone expressed any concern about his relationship with Meghan - his brother, his friends. There’s a real danger of him ascribing racism to many things that have absolutely nothing to do with race.

Doors to manual was a sneering reference to the fact that Carole Middleton had been an air hostess, and was considered "Not quite quite" by some of Wll's friends.. and the Wisteria sisters was a reference to the fact that Carole was seen as encouraging her 2 daughters to climb the social ladder.
 
Doors to manual was a sneering reference to the fact that Carole Middleton had been an air hostess, and was considered "Not quite quite" by some of Wll's friends.. and the Wisteria sisters was a reference to the fact that Carole was seen as encouraging her 2 daughters to climb the social ladder.

Thanks! It seems you could be a saint and people will say nasty things about you...
 
Thanks! It seems you could be a saint and people will say nasty things about you...

well lots of people in the media, the public and I suppose Will's circle sneered and jeered at Kate and the Middletons.. I have seen groups where she was rubbished for years, and I dont particular love her but it was very OTT...
However I do have this uneasy feeling re M and Harry that this IS Diana Mark 2.. and it wont end well for them. I dont much like them but I feel a bit sorry for Harry.. annoying and spoiled as he is. I think honestly he is not smart enough to realise that Diana's doing Morton did not end well for her and that it drove her right into the cold outside the RF...
 
I really think too that it will end in disaster unfortunately....
 
I tried to read a little of the book but I just couldn't. Either they cooperated or their friends did.. and now I'm older and can see how this sort of thing rarely ends well for the people who do it. They are bound to alienate the RF and while there will be some contact, I think its going to be very tense...
 
Thanks! It seems you could be a saint and people will say nasty things about you...

"Doors to manual" is an example of how it is not all about race as Americans think. Social class and family name matter a lot in some European circles. Again, the same happened to Daniel Westling for being "a personal trainer" (actually he was the CEO of a company that owned several gyms) or to Letizia Ortiz for having a grandfather who was a "taxi driver" (even though she was a renowned, university-educated international journalist).



I am inclined to believe that many people in Harry's social circle may have looked down on Meghan not because she was birracial, but rather because she was an actress, divorced (again like Letizia BTW), and from an undistinguished family. I suppose it is fair to say that those "friends" were acting snobbishly, but, on the other hand, in asymmetric relationships like that, it is predictable that questions will be asked about the intentions of the partner (see "Wisteria sisters").
 
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well lots of people in the media, the public and I suppose Will's circle sneered and jeered at Kate and the Middletons.. I have seen groups where she was rubbished for years, and I dont particular love her but it was very OTT...
However I do have this uneasy feeling re M and Harry that this IS Diana Mark 2.. and it wont end well for them. I dont much like them but I feel a bit sorry for Harry.. annoying and spoiled as he is. I think honestly he is not smart enough to realise that Diana's doing Morton did not end well for her and that it drove her right into the cold outside the RF...

I don’t want to speculate about their marriage, but ultimately I do wish Harry would return home. Down deep, I have some hope for him because I don’t think he’s a bad person..more like a good person behaving badly. Terribly, actually. I really feel for his close family - his papa and brother, especially.

On another note, this is an excellent article :

The pair are keen to champion the Sussexes’ philanthropic and campaigning agenda. “The aim of this book was to portray the real Harry and Meghan, a couple who have often been inaccurately portrayed and victims of those with personal agendas,” they say. That may have been the original aim, but over 24 chapters of score-settling and swipes at the royal family, the institution of monarchy, royal aides and the media, their admirable charitable endeavours are swamped by bitter recriminations.
.........

Harry’s feelings of indignation towards his brother in the book are palpable. As William encourages his younger brother to take all the time he needs in his new relationship — something their parents did not do, with devastating results — Harry does not see a protective sibling and an understandably cautious future monarch looking out for him and the institution.

Instead he sees “a snob”. Perhaps William wishes he had handled things differently now, but if two brothers cannot sit down for an honest heart-to-heart about one of the most important decisions in life, who can?


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/...hope-it-was-worth-it-for-the-prince-vmh5pz2jf
 
"Doors to manual" is an example of how it is not all about race as Americans think. Social class matters a lot in some European circles. Again, the same happened to Daniel Westling for being "a personal trainer" (actually he was the CEO of a company that owned several gyms) or to Letizia Ortiz for having a grandfather who was a "taxi driver" (even though she was a renowned, university-educated international journalist).



I am inclined to believe that many people in Harry's social circle may have looked down on Meghan not because she was birracial, but rather because she was an actress, divorced (again like Letizia BTW), and from n undistinguished family. I suppose it is fair to say that those "friends" were acting snobbishly, but, on the other hand, in asymmetric relationships like that, it is predictable that questions will be asked about the intentions of the partner (again, see "Wisteria sisters").

Possibly but we don't know of any one who did look down on her because of her being biracial. I think that her being an actress, (and not film star or Mrs Siddons class) her family apart from Doria being so awful, her being at best a self made woman, were probably factors if people in Hs circle did jeer at her... Or maybe they didn't like her?
However its Harry who made a racial slur comment to a soldier...

I don’t want to speculate about their marriage, but ultimately I do wish Harry would return home. Down deep, I have some hope for him because I don’t think he’s a bad person..more like a good person behaving badly. Terribly, actually. I really feel for his close family - his papa and brother, especially.

On another note, this is an excellent article :




https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/...hope-it-was-worth-it-for-the-prince-vmh5pz2jf
I feel a bit sorry for him.. but then well he behaves badly. And I think that Meghan encourage his selfish bratty side.. because she's' the same. Its honestly hard to believe in their "admirable intentions" of doing charity work, when you think that their desire to get out was fueled by a desire to make more money.. and partly I suppose by an egotistic desire to be noticed and admired and a peevish anger that William is higher in the ranking order. So often, it seems they do charity stuff that ends up really being "about them" rather than really doing any good for the people they claim to sympathize with.
 
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OT: this reminds me of a scene from BBC's "Who do you think you are" with Celia Imrie, who has aristocracy in her ancestral tree (although not herself), when she went to talk to a cousin who had more experience with these circles, the cousin (very funny lady imo) explained how a few generations back one of the noble daughters brought home a potential man to marry, a well to do man, a doctor no less. But the family looked down on him. Celia asks why. And the cousin with a very posh voice says "Trade..darling" (or something to that effect).
Point here was, the man might have had a good job, a doctor even, but *he had a job*...he had to *work* for a living ...a man who had to work was considered no match for a gentle woman of her class

:lol: i thought that was funny, but it described very well how the british upper classes viewed the...others... ? and i bet that attitude still lingers somewhere...

okay, sorry to stray..
 
"Doors to manual" is an example of how it is not all about race as Americans think. Social class matters a lot in some European circles. Again, the same happened to Daniel Westling for being "a personal trainer" (actually he was the CEO of a company that owned several gyms) or to Letizia Ortiz for having a grandfather who was a "taxi driver" (even though she was a renowned, university-educated international journalist).



I am inclined to believe that many people in Harry's social circle may have looked down on Meghan not because she was birracial, but rather because she was an actress, divorced (again like Letizia BTW), and from an undistinguished family. I suppose it is fair to say that those "friends" were acting snobbishly, but, on the other hand, in asymmetric relationships like that, it is predictable that questions will be asked about the intentions of the partner (see "Wisteria sisters").

Got it, thanks! I hate it when people make everything about race (some things, many things, clearly are...but not everything) because in doing so, they pooh-pooh real and justified criticism.

Good point. Even if that’s the case, I think their motivations were good.....Why Harry couldn’t have had real, honest discussions with William and his friends instead of choosing the nuclear option is beyond me. He’s a hot head, and frankly seems impossible to deal with.

Denville:

I feel a bit sorry for him.. but then well he behaves badly. And I think that Meghan encourage his selfish bratty side.. because she's' the same. Its honestly hard to believe in their "admirable intentions" of doing charity work, when you think that their desire to get out was fueled by a desire to make more money.. and partly I suppose by an egotistic desire to be noticed and admired and a peevish anger that William is higher in the ranking order. So often, it seems they do charity stuff that ends up really being "about them" rather than really doing any good for the people they claim to sympathize with.

I agree.....I’m sure they do want to do good things, honestly, but their actions taint even their noblest causes.
 
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So the Duchess of Cambridge sent the Duchess of Sussex flowers - as a way of reaching out, a peace offering.

The Duchess of Sussex told the Duchess of Cambridge "in no uncertain terms" ... "that flowers were not enough".

What more was required?

Chocolates, champagne? Kate to take the Sussexes washing off the line, do the ironing, run the vacuum through.

Remember Mr Scobie said he had two sources for everything written in "Finding Freedom", so I believe it.

:lol:

No, I really do.

Have a happy life Kate, you're free now.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...ent-flowers-Meghan-Markle-peace-offering.html
 
Got it, thanks! I hate it when people make everything about race (some things, many things, clearly are...but not everything) because in doing so, they pooh-pooh real and justified criticism.

Good point. Even if that’s the case, I think their motivations were good.....Why Harry couldn’t have had real, honest discussions with William and his friends instead of choosing the nuclear option is beyond me. He’s a hot head, and frankly seems impossible to deal with.

Denville:



I agree.....I’m sure they do want to do good things, honestly, but their actions taint even their noblest causes.

Unfortunately charity work has become such "public" activity, (instead of being done quietly) that many many people get on the charity bandwagon to get publicity, to attend glitzy events, to cover up their own more dubious activities...
Meghan and Harry probably mean well, at least in their own minds.. but IMO they see philanthropy as part of the "giitzy" life of Hollywood...rather than doing much good to the people in need..
I felt that they wanted to go to LA because it is a place where movie stars and the rich and famous like to show off their "social conscience credentials"...
IMO if they had really felt they wanted to get out of royal life so as to be able to choose their own charities, they could have gone on living in Canada, lived off their income and gone to work somewhere like a homeless shelter...
 
OT: this reminds me of a scene from BBC's "Who do you think you are" with Celia Imrie, who has aristocracy in her ancestral tree (although not herself), when she went to talk to a cousin who had more experience with these circles, the cousin (very funny lady imo) explained how a few generations back one of the noble daughters brought home a potential man to marry, a well to do man, a doctor no less. But the family looked down on him. Celia asks why. And the cousin with a very posh voice says "Trade..darling" (or something to that effect).
Point here was, the man might have had a good job, a doctor even, but *he had a job*...he had to *work* for a living ...a man who had to work was considered no match for a gentle woman of her class.


We saw it also on Downton Abbey. Isobel's future second husband, Lord Merton, told her he always wanted to be a doctor, but his father wouldn't allow it because it would not be appropriate for a man of his social station (remember that Isobel, who is supposed to represent the English middle-class, was the widow and a daughter of doctors). Lord Grantham on the other hand, I think in the very first episode of the series, after learning that Matthew would be the heir to the earldom, mentioned maybe to his mother that he was surprised to have a cousin who was a lawyer (or something similar to that; I don't remember the exact words).
 
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I'm hoping that reading the whole book might give a more balanced picture but at the moment it all just makes me sad at the waste of such an amazing opportunity. Harry and Meghan had such a platform; they could have contributed massively as Commonwealth ambassadors, which is clearly what the Queen had in mind.

William and "this girl" snobbery - Harry used the same phrase in the engagement interview "I feel I know that I am in love with this girl and I hope that she is in love with me".

I have no issue with Meghan cutting ties with her father, after trying numerous times to come to an understanding. This idea of Thomas Markle as an unworldly, sensitive souls is ridiculous. He survived and thrived for, what, 30 years in Hollywood, as a lighting expert. You don't do that by crumbling at the first hint of
pressure. He sold his daughter for money; not once but over and over. That's not love, that's money-grubbing selfishness. Doria , as a black woman, had even more pressure on her but she put her daughter first, as any good parent should, and was the epitome of grace. And I can't imagine that Thomas wasn't offered the same advice and help as Doria. She took it, he didn't.
 
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...irms-theyre-worlds-tone-deaf-whiny-brats.html

Good old Piers is right: most of the stories the 'lying' press wrote about them were 100 percent true!

So either they sue for slander or they don't which means the content is true. I don't see how anyone can believe that H&M have nothing to do with the book. Unless the authors have clairvoyant skills we have an Andrew Morton scenario here.
 
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...irms-theyre-worlds-tone-deaf-whiny-brats.html

Good old Piers is right: most of the stories the 'lying' press wrote about them were 100 percent true!

So either they sue for slander or they don't which means the content is true. I don't see how anyone can believe that H&M have nothing to do with the book. Unless the authors have clairvoyant skills we have an Andrew Morton scenario here.

I think that the whole style of it, all the stuff about how Meghan felt when she met up with Harry etc., HAS to come from either them or close friends.. and presumably the friends would not speak unless authorised (or maybe they think that they are doing Meg etc. some good by helping with this book).
 
The excerpts I read were just pointless.


Thing is when Diana's book was brought out everyone supported her. Everyone was 100% on her side. It was onlyninnher last year of life that people began to think there was something more to her and what she was doing.

Nobody is really supporting them. I mean some are but increasingly I just see people accepting them for what they are: a volatile, unstable pair.

What people were coming to see Diana as in that last summer. But Diana did have something Harry doesn't. You believed in her and that she cared. And undoubtedly you knew she was a victim of the institution.

So the Duchess of Cambridge sent the Duchess of Sussex flowers - as a way of reaching out, a peace offering.

The Duchess of Sussex told the Duchess of Cambridge "in no uncertain terms" ... "that flowers were not enough".

What more was required?

Chocolates, champagne? Kate to take the Sussexes washing off the line, do the ironing, run the vacuum through.

Remember Mr Scobie said he had two sources for everything written in "Finding Freedom", so I believe it.

:lol:

No, I really do.

Have a happy life Kate, you're free now.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...ent-flowers-Meghan-Markle-peace-offering.html

The flowers were sent as a birthday present but the book says Meghan would have preferred if she had checked in on her in the worst moments of the press.

Well there are a couple of points.

Kate had a small baby, a toddler and a school starter.

She herself had negative press and just dealt with it. He was she to know Megham found it difficult.

How about Megham reached out to her for advice.
 
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Kate sending flowers for her birthday. Nice gesture but Meghan needed advice from another married in on how to deal with the press and support. Kate now only looks like she was out for herself and protecting her position.

William saw Meghan as Harry's new toy and should be nothing more. Once the queen signed off more work should have been done.

British Media going full tilt protecting the Firm is basically protecting their jobs. The Meghan made Kate cry has been refuted and the fallout with friends has been expanded to class and race indignities. Dad has been exposed for getting paid for Pap gate. The Establishment is mad it got scooped and it is taking it out on Scobie on social media.

The Firm brought some of this spilling onto the streets on itself starting with the courtiers. Listening to full of themselves employees and letting them disrespect an incoming royal who was going to be someone to work for. Any other "Firm" would has fired them for insubordination, but the royals let the inmates (courtiers) run the asylum. The House of Windsor needs to own some of this - and they do. Blaming the Sussexes is not going make this go away. Any action by the Firm will be seen as retaliatory and willingly wanting to harm a 14 month old child.
 
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Kate sending flowers for her birthday. Nice gesture but Meghan needed advice from another married in on how to deal with the press and support. Kate now only looks like she was out for herself and protecting her position.

William saw Meghan as Harry's new toy and should be nothing more. Once the queen signed off more work should have been done.

British Media going full tilt protecting the Firm is basically protecting their jobs. The Meghan made Kate cry has been refuted and the fallout with friends has been expanded to class and race indignities. Dad has been exposed for getting paid for Pap gate. The Establishment is mad it got scooped and it is taking it out on Scobie on social media.

The Firm brought some of this spilling onto the streets on itself starting with the courtiers. Listening to full of themselves employees and letting them disrespect an incoming royal who was going to be someone to work for. Any other "Firm" would has fired them for insubordination, but the royals let the inmates (courtiers) run the asylum. The House of Windsor needs to own some of this - and they do. Blaming the Sussexes is not going make this go away. Any action by the Firm will be seen as retaliatory and willingly wanting to harm a 14 month old child.

What are you talking about? They have literally said nothing.

If Meghan wanted advice she should have asked for it. Kate had three tiny kids at the time and her own worries. Including a brother who had a breakdown and who she used to attend therapy sessions with. Meghan and Harry were not her concern.

Harry also moaned about being left to sort out the details after the main players agreed them and the net their staff take over. What did he expect?
 
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