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  #321  
Old 07-25-2020, 02:45 AM
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There've been stories about "courtiers" looking down on people for years. Prince Philip, a great-great-grandson of Queen Victoria, and a prince of Greece and Denmark in his own right, got snotty comments from courtiers because he wasn't part of the Establishment and was seen as a male Cinderella. There've also been reports about Queen Mary, because the Tecks were only morganatic royals, and the Queen Mother, because she was a "commoner", being looked down on, and we've all heard some of the nasty comments about the Middletons. They all managed to cope with it!
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  #322  
Old 07-25-2020, 02:49 AM
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Madame Verseau what did you expect? This is a book written by fans of the Sussexes and relying on their friends. It was never going to be objective - no more than Diana, Her True Story was going to be an objective examination of the Wales' marriage.

We need to keep in mind that what we get over the next couple of days is going to be a minute portion of the book as a whole. And it's going to be the juiciest and most newsworthy parts.

As Sun Lion said, nobody is coming out of this looking good. It's just hurting everyone.
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  #323  
Old 07-25-2020, 02:56 AM
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This sort of thing has been going on for centuries. Libellous broadsheets circulating round Stuart-era London. Rumours that the Duke of Buckingham was plotting against Henry VIII. People will always make claims about the Royals and other famous people. It's horrible that people spend their time writing nasty things about other people, but it's never been any different. Harry and Meghan can't seem to accept that it isn't personal against them.
  #324  
Old 07-25-2020, 03:18 AM
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An earlier poster reminded us of how other incomers to the family were treated, Philip, Queen Mary, Queen Mother. What do the three of them now have in common, they put the work ethic into play , played the long game and served their monarch. All well thought of, not perfect by any means but respected.
Yes Meghan was enthusiastic in the engagement interviews, IMO she was genuine in her intentions but her plans were not the royal way of doing things. IMO she did not expect to be told NO. I believe that once she realised that she did not have a free hand, she wanted out.
I genuinely believe she did not appreciate the pecking order within the family, where they stand on the balcony at trooping of the colour is not a coincidence or first to arrive gets the best view. Neither did she appreciate the power of the ' grey men in suits' and their role in protecting the crown.
I watched a programme about Wallis Simpson the other night, and some of the similarities are interesting, not just the American divorcee angle, but the lack of appreciation of the role of the family and duty.
Maybe Meghan should have played the long game.
  #325  
Old 07-25-2020, 03:40 AM
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Oh Dear, oh dear.

National news here across Australia this evening is covering "Finding Freedom" and all the most salacious details so far released.

Not dignified for anyone. Even Diana dragged into it all.

The comment about Kate repeated. So unfair I think. The Duchess of Cambridge didn't cause any problems that the Duke and Duchess of Sussex may have.
  #326  
Old 07-25-2020, 04:45 AM
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WOW! Just WOW! I hope the rumours they contributed to the book are untrue because if they did it really isn't going to help relations with the Royal Family.
  #327  
Old 07-25-2020, 04:59 AM
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Remember Diana denied contributing to the Morton book for years and then it turned out that she had co-operated not only by allowing her friends to talk but actually talking to Morton herself.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Harry hasn't done the same thing.

There is one piece in The Times that would suggest that possibility as according to the book Harry had lunch alone with The Queen. What was discussed over this lunch is as follows:

'As they tucked into a roast lunch, the Queen made it clear to Harry that she would always support him in whatever he decided to do. Though a 12-month trial period had already been promised to Harry earlier in the year, their conversation was also a reminder that should he and Meghan ever want to return to their roles, they were always welcome.'

Who is the source for this discussion if, as Scobie says, it was just 'granny and grandson'? The Queen - I doubt it. Harry - possibly.
  #328  
Old 07-25-2020, 05:49 AM
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Yes, I can 100% believe the couple themselves didn't speak to the writers, but telling your friends your side of things then telling them they can speak to the authors is pretty much the same thing. Interesting they didn't deny speaking to the authors before now, why not deny it when the first reports of it were made? Why wait until its published to deny being involved?
  #329  
Old 07-25-2020, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
Yes, I can 100% believe the couple themselves didn't speak to the writers, but telling your friends your side of things then telling them they can speak to the authors is pretty much the same thing. Interesting they didn't deny speaking to the authors before now, why not deny it when the first reports of it were made? Why wait until its published to deny being involved?
Except they did. They have always stated they were not involved with this book. They can say it 48976322 times but people will believe whatever they want.

The exerts I read it’s a whole lot of “palace sources”, “a friend said”, “spoke by a courtier”, etc. So all “sides” seem somewhat represented in their version of things.
  #330  
Old 07-25-2020, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by ACO View Post
Except they did. They have always stated they were not involved with this book. They can say it 48976322 times but people will believe whatever they want.



The exerts I read it’s a whole lot of “palace sources”, “a friend said”, “spoke by a courtier”, etc. So all “sides” seem somewhat represented in their version of things.

So did Diana, turns out she talked as well.

Iluvbertie provides an excellent example of how they could have cooperate with this book.
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  #331  
Old 07-25-2020, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
So did Diana, turns out she talked as well.

Iluvbertie provides an excellent example of how they could have cooperate with this book.
Yes Diana did talk. We all know she did. That doesn’t mean Harry and Meghan did. In fact in that interview of Omid’s the reporter asked him like 20 different ways if they did and he denied.

After yet another statement by the Sussexes and knowing they not afraid to take legal action... I don’t think they did. Omid clearly did speak to people of the Sussexes side as well as the palace. Seems it’s pretty evenly represented from the exerts I’ve read.

It’s hardly some gushy piece everyone assumed. It comes across as a royal reporter who wrote about the dysfunction he witnessed behind the scenes. Personally I feel like it’s just repackaged version of what we already have read but the hype did well for Omid.

Can’t hate on the media frenzy boosting a typical book all because of assumptions.
  #332  
Old 07-25-2020, 07:14 AM
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The Time (which is previewing the book before its release) has an interview with the authors and the section where they talk about H&M possibly being involved an giving interviews for the book is very interesting IMO:

So did Omid and Carolyn have a sit-down with Harry and Meghan? “The book doesn’t claim to have any interviews with Harry and Meghan. And nor do we,” Scobie says. But did they have them? “I don’t claim to have interviews with them.” But did he have them? “There are no interviews with Harry and Meghan.” Was there, perhaps, an off-the-record talk? “You’ve read the book. There’s no on-the-record interviews with the couple.”
Was there an off-the-record discussion with them? “No,” he says more quietly, “and I think that you can tell from the reporting, my time around the couple is enough for me to know my subjects.”


It surprises me how around the houses Omid has to go to say simply "they had absolutely nothing to do with this book whatsoever" if that is what he is trying to say.
  #333  
Old 07-25-2020, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
Well, well, well....






There’s a lot more....and it’s just whining, complaining, stamping of the feet from these spoiled brats.

I loathe Meghan’s martyr complex. I loathe her disdain for the BRF (“this family”).
I loathe the fact that she acts as if she’s the only one who has ever been deep,y hurt by the media.

I despise Harry’s jealousy. His brother is going to be king and he’s never come to terms with it. He seems to take any attention that William gets personally - and when he’s not given or allowed to do something, he turns green. I don’t blame Kate for not being welcoming to H and M at the Commonwealth service, being adult about it forgoing the procession thanks to her in-laws upset. Of course Kate is going to be protective of her husband if she believes the Sussexes have behaved badly to them...

This book is going to make H and M look awful


https://www.thedailybeast.com/its-bl...ire?ref=scroll



Harry's "jealousy" is probably a sign of his own personal lack of self-esteem and self-confidence. His delusion that the Palace was terrified about the Sussexes' "star power" and conspired to downplay their public role also seems pathological to me although I will leave that judgement to clinical professionals.



In the end, Harry is just hurting himself. After he and his wife left, it turned out that they didn't have the "popular appeal" they believed they had. On the contrary, as shown by YouGov, they have plummeting poll numbers in the UK (especially Meghan, who is considered a liability to the RF by over 50 % of the respondents in the poll). They don't have a stable job/career either and don't even have a home of their own, moving from country to country and living in a stranger's house. It is really sad.
  #334  
Old 07-25-2020, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Hallo girl View Post
Yes Meghan was enthusiastic in the engagement interviews, IMO she was genuine in her intentions but her plans were not the royal way of doing things. IMO she did not expect to be told NO. I believe that once she realised that she did not have a free hand, she wanted out.
There's a saying "you have to learn the rules in order to break them."

As in this case, spending time learning the very new and completely different system you have just married into before theoretically being hung ho about how you're going to change/save/break out of it or develop your own style within it.

As a couple they barely had enough time to breathe before they had a baby and decided they were off because they didn't like it.
  #335  
Old 07-25-2020, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
There's a saying "you have to learn the rules in order to break them."

As in this case, spending time learning the very new and completely different system you have just married into before theoretically being hung ho about how you're going to change/save/break out of it or develop your own style within it.

As a couple they barely had enough time to breathe before they had a baby and decided they were off because they didn't like it.

I get that Meghan could claim not to understand the rules, but Harry? He grew up in the RF after all and has seen since he was a child how his father for example was treated differently from his uncles and aunt.



Only one person can be or become King and the eldest child (previously the eldest son) inherits the Crown. That is how most European monarchies have worked for centuries. I don't see how Harry could not grasp that simple and straightforward concept and mistake it for a plot by the grey suits against him and his wife.
  #336  
Old 07-25-2020, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
The Time (which is previewing the book before its release) has an interview with the authors and the section where they talk about H&M possibly being involved an giving interviews for the book is very interesting IMO:

So did Omid and Carolyn have a sit-down with Harry and Meghan? “The book doesn’t claim to have any interviews with Harry and Meghan. And nor do we,” Scobie says. But did they have them? “I don’t claim to have interviews with them.” But did he have them? “There are no interviews with Harry and Meghan.” Was there, perhaps, an off-the-record talk? “You’ve read the book. There’s no on-the-record interviews with the couple.”
Was there an off-the-record discussion with them? “No,” he says more quietly, “and I think that you can tell from the reporting, my time around the couple is enough for me to know my subjects.”


It surprises me how around the houses Omid has to go to say simply "they had absolutely nothing to do with this book whatsoever" if that is what he is trying to say.
Andrew Morton said the same thing in 1992 - he denied talking to Diana or even her friends but he lied.

Just because Omid is denying it now doesn't make it true - or false. He isn't going to bite the hands that feeds him, namely Harry and Meghan. He reminds me of Richard Kay - Diana's tame reporter who always had her scoops. He also denied for years that he had any special contact with Diana but eventually it came out that she would ring him up and tell him where she would be, especially if she had the boys with her.

That is why these writers and royals simply can't be believed. We have been lied to too often, especially by Diana and her supporters so why expect Diana's son/s to be any different to her?
  #337  
Old 07-25-2020, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
If there is no lawsuit against the authors by H&M we can assume this is exactly their side of the story told through their mouthpieces.
Ha, yes...I tweeted the same thing earlier in response to this tweet by Phil Dampier..(my reply is in bold)


Quote:
#harryandmeghan say they didn't contribute to this book. But presumably if they don't complain about any of the content - and they do like complaining - we can assume they are happy with it?
https://twitter.com/phildampier/stat...089769472?s=21


Yes we can, considering they normally complain or sue anyone who says things they don’t like


Quote:
Originally Posted by VictoriaB View Post
Madame Verseau what did you expect? This is a book written by fans of the Sussexes and relying on their friends. It was never going to be objective - no more than Diana, Her True Story was going to be an objective examination of the Wales' marriage.

We need to keep in mind that what we get over the next couple of days is going to be a minute portion of the book as a whole. And it's going to be the juiciest and most newsworthy parts.

As Sun Lion said, nobody is coming out of this looking good. It's just hurting everyone.
I think the BRF is fine....I believe the book is going to make, despite the intentions of the authors, H and M look bad. Since the Africa interview, these two have whined, complained and generally stamped their feet when they couldn’t get what they want. They’ve behaved dreadfully while the BRF has been classy and handled themselves brilliantly during this time. All the book is going to do is confirm that H and M are a pair of self-centered egotists. I DO feel sorry for HM, Charles, William and Kate....
  #338  
Old 07-25-2020, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Harry's "jealousy" is probably a sign of his own personal lack of self-esteem and self-confidence. His delusion that the Palace was terrified about the Sussexes' "star power" and conspired to downplay their public role also seems pathological to me although I will leave that judgement to clinical professionals.



In the end, Harry is just hurting himself. After he and his wife left, it turned out that they didn't have the "popular appeal" they believed they had. On the contrary, as shown by YouGov, they have plummeting poll numbers in the UK (especially Meghan, who is considered a liability to the RF by over 50 % of the respondents in the poll). They don't have a stable job/career either and don't even have a home of their own, moving from country to country and living in a stranger's house. It is really sad.
I couldn’t agree more. I’m still gobsmacked about this idea that Harry expected “better” treatment based on the “success” of his wedding, like it was a TV show. Come to think of it, he does sound like a tv star who tries to throw his weight around because he thinks the show can’t get by without him, lol. If he were secure, he wouldn’t be reading social media comments and getting upset when people don’t say good things about him.

I’m afraid that Harry seems to have bought into the idea that he was so loved that he could get away with anything. Considering the Nazi uniform incident hasn’t ever been held against him, maybe he couldn’t be blamed for thinking that. He seems to be acting on the idea that the public would always want him to be happy, that what he wants, they want.....so he could act like a bull in a china shop, and still come up smelling like roses. He’s found that isn’t the case.

Quote:
I get that Meghan could claim not to understand the rules, but Harry? He grew up in the RF after all and has seen since he was a child how his father for example was treated differently from his uncles and aunt.

Only one person can be or become King and the eldest child (previously the eldest son) inherits the Crown. That is how most European monarchies have worked for centuries. I don't see how Harry could not grasp that simple and straightforward concept and mistake it for a plot by the grey suits against him and his wife.

  #339  
Old 07-25-2020, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
The Time (which is previewing the book before its release) has an interview with the authors and the section where they talk about H&M possibly being involved an giving interviews for the book is very interesting IMO:

So did Omid and Carolyn have a sit-down with Harry and Meghan? “The book doesn’t claim to have any interviews with Harry and Meghan. And nor do we,” Scobie says. But did they have them? “I don’t claim to have interviews with them.” But did he have them? “There are no interviews with Harry and Meghan.” Was there, perhaps, an off-the-record talk? “You’ve read the book. There’s no on-the-record interviews with the couple.”
Was there an off-the-record discussion with them? “No,” he says more quietly, “and I think that you can tell from the reporting, my time around the couple is enough for me to know my subjects.”


It surprises me how around the houses Omid has to go to say simply "they had absolutely nothing to do with this book whatsoever" if that is what he is trying to say.
Thanks for this excerpt. So, they did talk off-the record but it wasn't an official off-the-record discussion?! If they had not cooperated in any way, it would have been very easy to say so. So, at least he has the decency not to spout out-right lies but prefers to avoid answering the questions to hide the truth without lying. Sound a lot like how they probably went about the interview with Meghan's friends: doing things in a roundabout way so most questions could be dodged.
  #340  
Old 07-25-2020, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Remember Diana denied contributing to the Morton book for years and then it turned out that she had co-operated not only by allowing her friends to talk but actually talking to Morton herself.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Harry hasn't done the same thing.

There is one piece in The Times that would suggest that possibility as according to the book Harry had lunch alone with The Queen. What was discussed over this lunch is as follows:

'As they tucked into a roast lunch, the Queen made it clear to Harry that she would always support him in whatever he decided to do. Though a 12-month trial period had already been promised to Harry earlier in the year, their conversation was also a reminder that should he and Meghan ever want to return to their roles, they were always welcome.'

Who is the source for this discussion if, as Scobie says, it was just 'granny and grandson'? The Queen - I doubt it. Harry - possibly.
I don't have access to The Times but that passage appeared another online publication and it stood out immensely. My immediate conclusion was that there is no way that the "source" relaying this anecdote is doing it without the knowledge and consent of one or both Sussexes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACO View Post
Except they did. They have always stated they were not involved with this book. They can say it 48976322 times but people will believe whatever they want.

The exerts I read it’s a whole lot of “palace sources”, “a friend said”, “spoke by a courtier”, etc. So all “sides” seem somewhat represented in their version of things.
A recent statement by a spokesperson for the Sussexes:
Quote:
"The Duke and Duchess of Sussex were not interviewed and did not contribute to Finding Freedom. "This book is based on the authors' own experiences as members of the royal press corps and their own independent reporting."
I don't disbelieve the statement but it is a distinction without a difference because what I don't believe is that a person who is close enough to Harry to be told the story about Harry's lunch with The Queen would not relay it without Harry's approval.

I agree that it seems like Durand and Scobie did tap into sources beyond those close to the Sussexes.
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