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  #2081  
Old 08-18-2020, 09:25 PM
Osipi's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenMathilde View Post
Seeing as this book doesn't make Harry and Meghan look too good I don't think it topping the bestseller list is something they should hope for. They'd be better off hoping it goes away.
Well... its been said before that "bad publicity is better than no publicity at all".
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  #2082  
Old 08-18-2020, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilyflo View Post
I think the Queen has always been underestimated as a strong woman and I could write a huge essay on it (I won't inflict that on anyone here!). After considering all the facts and advice from aides and experts, she's made her own decisions and stood her ground against her feisty, spoiled sister, her 'alpha male' domineering husband, her mother, her children, her politicians and the press. She's not naturally an extrovert but she's risen to the enormous challenge of making live speeches in nerve-wracking situations and she's also entertained and been polite to people who undoubtedly fill her with distaste if not disgust. I couldn't do it and I don't know anyone else who could do it.

Then there's The Princess Royal - don't even get me started here on my very long essay on what a strong woman SHE is.
The Queen has made bad choices or just ignored problems. For instance I think Margaret's situation re: Townsend was mishandled. Some allowances should have been made and she should have been able to marry Townsend without some of the "penalties." that said. I admire the Queen and her tenacity in being monarch since 1952.

I do think the younger ones do see her as a strong person.
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  #2083  
Old 08-18-2020, 09:39 PM
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Prince Charles brands rift rumours with William and Harry 'complete nonsense'

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...mours-22542600
  #2084  
Old 08-18-2020, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Well... its been said before that "bad publicity is better than no publicity at all".

True. At this point they might fall into that Kardashian/Paris Hilton category where it doesn't matter what is said about them as long as their names stay in the headlines.
  #2085  
Old 08-18-2020, 11:27 PM
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I think one of the biggest issues here IMO is that the assumption that people want a "progressive monarchy." I think that more than likely the public want what they see from the Queen quietly doing their duty and what they see from Will and Kate.

Frankly also if you want privacy why are you airing out your family issues in the public? There's nothing from Harry's immediate family that deserves this treatment.
  #2086  
Old 08-19-2020, 12:58 AM
Majesty
 
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And did Meghan deserve what she got from the British tabloid media from the day it was known that she was dating Harry? Urged on by disgusting social media Tumblr and Twitter sites, the constant criticism day after day, week after week, month after month?

I counted (because I took note) an average of three critical articles for every 24 hour news cycle in the online British tabloids from October 2018 until the day the couple left.

Opinion pieces about Meghan hugging people too much, as well as criticisms of her tights, dresses, hair, shoes, nail polish, not behaving like a British person, being 'too American', her attitude to staff, holding her stomach when pregnant, being too keen, lies about interior decorations and fittings in her Frogmore Cottage home, etc, etc,etc.

And this all occurred during her first pregnancy and in the first months after her first child's birth, in a foreign country.

Yes, other Royal women got criticisms in the past but nothing like that deluge, not to mention that social media wasn't around as much pre 2011, or not at all in Diana and Fergie's time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenMathilde View Post
Seeing as this book doesn't make Harry and Meghan look too good I don't think it topping the bestseller list is something they should hope for. They'd be better off hoping it goes away.
The average sales numbers for non fiction books are around the 5,000 mark for each edition. So 31,000 is exceptional.

We don't know what the people who purchased this book think of Harry and Meghan after reading it. Just because journalists and so called royal experts don't like it means nothing. The vast majority of them would give their eye teeth to write a bestseller.
It may be that people who like the Sussexes will have their opinions reinforced. Those that have never liked them will feel the same. Those that are merely curious may have their opinions on the couple change. IMO it certainly doesn't follow that everybody who reads FF will end up loathing the couple.
  #2087  
Old 08-19-2020, 01:16 AM
Aristocracy
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
And did Meghan deserve what she got from the British tabloid media from the day it was known that she was dating Harry? Urged on by disgusting social media Tumblr and Twitter sites, the constant criticism day after day, week after week, month after month.

I counted (because I took note) an average of three critical articles for every 24 hour news cycle in the online British tabloids from October 2018 until the day the couple left.

Opinion pieces about Meghan hugging people too much, as well as criticisms of her tights, dresses, hair, shoes, nail polish, not behaving like a British person, being 'too American', her attitude to staff, holding her stomach when pregnant, being too keen, lies about interior decorations and fittings in her Frogmore Cottage home, etc, etc,etc.

And this all occurred during her first pregnancy and in the first months after her first child's birth, in a foreign country.

Yes, other Royal women got criticisms in the past but nothing like that deluge, not to mention that social media wasn't around as much pre 2011, or not at all in Diana and Fergie's time.
I don't know about Diana, Sarah, and Sophie, but I remember there's constant reporting in Brits media of Catherine in their early dating years, it then went down but picked up again around the wedding and early marriage year (their break up even made the news! Legit news channel, not just gossip news).

So, is the problem British media or social media (and internet)? Because social media is worldwide. Sure, Brits tabloids can be nasty and I'm not saying that those ladies deserve it, but I don't think it's fair to put the blame of the uncivilised attitude of ppl in social media to them.
  #2088  
Old 08-19-2020, 01:48 AM
Majesty
 
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The British tabloid press regularly trawl Twitter for storylines, especially online reactions to various royals.

So there was an average of three negative articles a day on Kate in online British tabloids was there from the first year of her marriage for the twelve months afterwards? I don't recollect that at all. There was certainly negative stories in the dating years but none to very few when she was pregnant and when George was born.

The tabloid British Press did not like the arrangements that were made for them at the May 2018 wedding, didn't like the fact that Archie wasn't presented to them on the steps (though YouGov polls showed the British public agreed with Meghan's decision.) And so there was a concerted attack.

They also published disagreeable articles because the Sussexes didn't want to put on a show for their baby's christening. Whether you agree with the way they did it or not Archie is their child and if they wanted a private christening surely they were allowed However, not according to the British tabloids!

YouGov opinion in the middle of the onslaught as to whether Meghan and Harry were being treated fairly.

https://mobile.twitter.com/yougov/st...684866?lang=en
  #2089  
Old 08-19-2020, 02:59 AM
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Let's gat back to discussing the book.
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  #2090  
Old 08-19-2020, 03:46 AM
AC21091968's Avatar
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I agree with most poster here that the book Finding Freedom portrays Harry and Meghan in a negative light as self-centred individuals. From looking at multiple exerts, I think most of Harry and Meghan's anger and frustration were mainly directed at William and Catherine, followed by Palace staffs/courtiers (including Angela Kelly).

I also think that the FF book is the second catalyst that causes people (British public, royal watchers around the world and possibly royal reporters) to have less sympathy for them. The first one is probably how H&M exit as senior working member of the royal family. The link below kind of summarise how the British public feel about H&M stepping back from royal duties.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics...rry-and-meghan

I do think that Omid Scobie is definitely making himself look worse by digging deeper holes, especially in interviews on whether or not Harry shout at Angela Kelly or contacting the couple themselves. But then again, as some members point out "Any publicity is good publicity", which is evident in the book sales.
  #2091  
Old 08-19-2020, 04:41 AM
Aristocracy
 
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https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal...al-book-amazon


Quote:
Meghan Markle plot: Furious fans launch operation to hide bad reviews of Finding Freedom

MEGHAN MARKLE and Prince Harry fans have launched an operation to boost the ratings of a controversial tell-all book about the royal couple after the publication was targeted by online trolls.
The Sussex Squad had to ask people to put good reviews on Amazon, it shows how fanatical and insecure the Sussex Squad really is.
  #2092  
Old 08-19-2020, 05:26 AM
Majesty
 
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Location: London, United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC21091968 View Post
I agree with most poster here that the book Finding Freedom portrays Harry and Meghan in a negative light as self-centred individuals. From looking at multiple exerts, I think most of Harry and Meghan's anger and frustration were mainly directed at William and Catherine, followed by Palace staffs/courtiers (including Angela Kelly).

I also think that the FF book is the second catalyst that causes people (British public, royal watchers around the world and possibly royal reporters) to have less sympathy for them. The first one is probably how H&M exit as senior working member of the royal family. The link below kind of summarise how the British public feel about H&M stepping back from royal duties.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics...rry-and-meghan

I do think that Omid Scobie is definitely making himself look worse by digging deeper holes, especially in interviews on whether or not Harry shout at Angela Kelly or contacting the couple themselves. But then again, as some members point out "Any publicity is good publicity", which is evident in the book sales.
Teh book will sell at present.. People are tired out and depressed and often stuck at home.. and they'll read something that's amusing and vaguely scandalous..
  #2093  
Old 08-19-2020, 05:49 AM
muriel's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyDrx View Post
https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal...al-book-amazon


The Sussex Squad had to ask people to put good reviews on Amazon, it shows how fanatical and insecure the Sussex Squad really is.
Now why does that not surprise me?
  #2094  
Old 08-19-2020, 06:07 AM
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I finished this unbearable book - and immediately followed it up with Royals at War.

I don't believe any more Meghan is truly interested in anything but her own precious person. She just picked an agenda that would ingratiate her with a certain crowd. After I saw how she upstaged Camilla on the day of her speech about domestic abuse, just a petty personal revenge for whatever went on before, after that I can't believe she really cares about anyone.

The book is full of hypocrisy. Social media are damned to the lowest part of hell - two pages on, Meghan is lauded like a genius for her social media brilliance. What does it mean? Everything is being judged whether it's "good for Meghan" or "bad for Meghan". If it makes her smile, it's great. If it makes her frown, oh no, it's horrible. Social media, Great Britain, the Royal Family - it all switches from one page to the other.

I have come to the conclusion that the book reflects the narcissicist world view of either black or white. There are no compromises, no maybe, no self doubt, nothing. People are either painted black or white.

And all that Scobie talk about Kate is ludicrous. All the married-ins had tough, tough times, at least those who married close to the throne (Serena and Autumn were less under the magnfiying glass). Kate was laughed about and I don't know how she survived it. There must have been times when she didn't want to face the crowds and media again. To turn her into a cookie-cutter duchess is ridiculous, there is no such thing. She found her own way, without drama and without scandals. Yes, she looked uncomfortable and sometimes her smile didn't reach her eyes, who could blame her for that?

I'm confident we'll see her grow and grow in stature and importance. Slowly but surely, without upsetting the hierarchy.

If feminism is all about personal choices, why is a woman vilified who puts family first? Kate and William raise children with happy smiles and giggles. I love seeing that. They have a great childhood. Bringing up a future king who has a solid foundation of unconditional love, stabiity and security is important. I can't think of any British king who had that kind of childhood, even loving mothers like Alexandra couldn't do so well.

Why pitch one woman against the other anyway?

I personally prefer the less ambitious types, and Meghan was driven on by ambition every step on her way. If we have to compare (oh Scobie, why compare at all???), then I'm firmly on team Kate, team Anne, team anyone-but-Meghan. Anyone who got in her way was simply frozen out, thrown away.

She's a narcissist, at least Finding Freedom presents a narcissist's world view in the clearest light possible. I pity poor Archie who didn't choose any of this mess.
  #2095  
Old 08-19-2020, 06:20 AM
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Speaking of Archie if these impressions of M&H are really accurate I feel terrible for that kid. Being raised by Capricious entitled narcissistic parents does not make for a emotionally and mentally Healthy childhood. Hopefully he has loving sane nanny’s that can endure and not get fired in the middle of the night.
  #2096  
Old 08-19-2020, 06:34 AM
Majesty
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC21091968 View Post
I agree with most poster here that the book Finding Freedom portrays Harry and Meghan in a negative light as self-centred individuals. From looking at multiple exerts, I think most of Harry and Meghan's anger and frustration were mainly directed at William and Catherine, followed by Palace staffs/courtiers (including Angela Kelly).

Meghan's (short) life in the Royal Family is only part of the book, but that part seems to be an attack primarily on the Cambridges, most notably Kate. Maybe the authors thought that the narrative of a feud between the brothers (or their wives) would boost book sales or, if Meghan is really the ghostwriter, maybe she refrained from attacking Charles or the Queen, which is not in the Sussexes' interest for obvious reasons, and chose to concentrate her fire on William and Kate instead. In any case, I am surprised why they felt that was necessary.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Diotima View Post
If feminism is all about personal choices, why is a woman vilified who puts family first? Kate and William raise children with happy smiles and giggles. I love seeing that. They have a great childhood. Bringing up a future king who has a solid foundation of unconditional love, stabiity and security is important. I can't think of any British king who had that kind of childhood, even loving mothers like Alexandra couldn't do so well.
.

I suppose the present Queen is generally thought to have had a happy childhood.

I agree, however, that the Cambridge kids have had more of "a normal family life" and more stability than most of their predecessors and I agree that will make a difference in their adult lives.
  #2097  
Old 08-19-2020, 07:02 AM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diotima View Post
I finished this unbearable book - and immediately followed it up with Royals at War.

I don't believe any more Meghan is truly interested in anything but her own precious person. She just picked an agenda that would ingratiate her with a certain crowd. After I saw how she upstaged Camilla on the day of her speech about domestic abuse, just a petty personal revenge for whatever went on before, after that I can't believe she really cares about anyone.

The book is full of hypocrisy. Social media are damned to the lowest part of hell - two pages on, Meghan is lauded like a genius for her social media brilliance. What does it mean? Everything is being judged whether it's "good for Meghan" or "bad for Meghan". If it makes her smile, it's great. If it makes her frown, oh no, it's horrible. Social media, Great Britain, the Royal Family - it all switches from one page to the other.

I have come to the conclusion that the book reflects the narcissicist world view of either black or white. There are no compromises, no maybe, no self doubt, nothing. People are either painted black or white.

And all that Scobie talk about Kate is ludicrous. All the married-ins had tough, tough times, at least those who married close to the throne (Serena and Autumn were less under the magnfiying glass). Kate was laughed about and I don't know how she survived it. There must have been times when she didn't want to face the crowds and media again. To turn her into a cookie-cutter duchess is ridiculous, there is no such thing. She found her own way, without drama and without scandals. Yes, she looked uncomfortable and sometimes her smile didn't reach her eyes, who could blame her for that?

I'm confident we'll see her grow and grow in stature and importance. Slowly but surely, without upsetting the hierarchy.

If feminism is all about personal choices, why is a woman vilified who puts family first? Kate and William raise children with happy smiles and giggles. I love seeing that. They have a great childhood. Bringing up a future king who has a solid foundation of unconditional love, stabiity and security is important. I can't think of any British king who had that kind of childhood, even loving mothers like Alexandra couldn't do so well.

Why pitch one woman against the other anyway?

I personally prefer the less ambitious types, and Meghan was driven on by ambition every step on her way. If we have to compare (oh Scobie, why compare at all???), then I'm firmly on team Kate, team Anne, team anyone-but-Meghan. Anyone who got in her way was simply frozen out, thrown away.

She's a narcissist, at least Finding Freedom presents a narcissist's world view in the clearest light possible. I pity poor Archie who didn't choose any of this mess.
What is that book like? I may listen to that too.

The Queen had a very happy childhood. George may be the first expected monarch since her to be experiencing a stable childhood. Charles by and large did have a happy childhood. Parents being fairly absent not withstanding. He had people around him who loved him. His teenage years though were traumatic. William's childhood was an experience I am sure.

The book is just a manifesto. Fade away eventually.
  #2098  
Old 08-19-2020, 07:24 AM
Heir Apparent
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
I think one of the biggest issues here IMO is that the assumption that people want a "progressive monarchy." I think that more than likely the public want what they see from the Queen quietly doing their duty and what they see from Will and Kate.

Frankly also if you want privacy why are you airing out your family issues in the public? There's nothing from Harry's immediate family that deserves this treatment.
This is 100% true, H&M may have felt there was a need to "modernise" the monarchy or make it seem more progressive. The reality is the RF have always had to "stop" just before overstepping to being 'preachy' and if they have expressed a view it tends to be when highlighting the good work of others, in other words their way of expressing an opinion tends to be by the charities and causes they visit and those who's work they highlight, it never really is meant to be their own views being vocalised except on very few occasions and on issues they are 100% passionate about and had experience with. The reason why is probably because they lead lives of immense privilege and also know they have to be all things to all people - the moment you express an opinion, especially a strong one, there are always going to be those who disagree and suddenly feel "the Queen isn't their Queen" anymore.

I think the book, and H&Ms constant airing of their opinions show they just don't understand this for whatever reason. The reality is, rather as we saw with Andrew, the RF know what works for them and what keeps the British public happy and can't afford tot keep those who go against this on, especially when they aren't one day heirs central to the whole thing.
  #2099  
Old 08-19-2020, 08:03 AM
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Posts: 19
Very true, QEQM gave her daughters a happy childhood. It may have helped that Elizabeth II was not immediately pegged as heir of the throne - until the abdication crisis, there was relatively little pressure on the family. And both parents were loving.

Kate and William try to give their children not only love and stability but also some exposure to the outside world, and in time we'll see that they're interested in a good, rounded education for all of them.

FF doesn't mention ANY aspect of anyone's life or character that is NOT connected to Meghan or Harry. It's a nearly frightening look, now that I think about it, into the mind of the narcissist who can't even perceive anything unconnected to themselves. Any merit Angela Kelly or Kate or others may have outside of the Meghan-Harry drama is simply invisible. Everything is subservient to their narrative.

It's really quite sickening but I had to read it.

To be fair, I agree that racist undertones by some media figures are absolutely unbearable, and also that the British gossip industry is unhealthy. I understand the wish to stop them somehow, though I don't think Meghan and Harry found the right strategy. Let's be honest - the consumers of this gossip (and I have to include myself here, over the last few years I have clicked on their headlines, too) feed the whole thing.

I also understand that it's upsetting to see the same journalists who wrote ludicrous articles about Meghan (murderous avocado toast, yeah) applauding her on a tour. Yes, for them it's a game. But why did Harry in his wordy protest give them so much power? Why talk so much about their suffering? By doing so, he made these stupid articles bigger, not smaller.

Sorry if again I compare a William and Kate story but it fits here. Remember the rumours about William cheating on Kate with some aristocratic neighbour? For a while, these rumours were everywhere. I think it's quite clear they were simply rumours and nothing else, I don't even want to think where they came from. By simply going on with their lives, Kate and William made the gossipmongers look like liars and fools.

There are levels of idiocy that don't deserve that much excitement. Harry fed more and more emotion into this cynical machine. FF is more material for the gossip mill. It's simply a pity.

And again - it left me with a very bad feeling about the two. Media or no media - Meghan's aims in life were NOT a life of service in the background a la Sophie Wessex. If anything is obvious from this book - she had a plan, and marrying Harry was one step in that plan.
  #2100  
Old 08-19-2020, 08:51 AM
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I find the comments to be so judgemental and the terms IMO - in my opinion and the now absolutely never used IMHO- in my humble opinion, desperately needed.

The rules use to be about credibility, how reliable a source is, not I love/loathe either or neither. These threads are full of stories .ade of whole cloth. Nowhere does the requisite examination of the motives or even the means the ubiquitous "they" got their story but rather making judgements on the character of royals, staff or media.

As a matter of interest, I understand why a bride would want access to the tiara at least a week in advance of the wedding. Angela may be used to handling them regularly but, I would argue that access would be required to enable then to fit the tiara and practice attaching the veil and probably work it so it just looked like it was attached. The Queen herself is a perfect example of what happens when you don't.

As to Angela preventing them from seeing their Grandmother, it's not too far out there when you consider the anger and frustration of Charles and Andrew being unable to be slotted in to see their mother. That led to a resignation and a second from his deputy in support of her boss. I seem to remember that the Queen persuaded her to help ease Meghan into the royal family.

So yes, I can see senior staff or courtiers acting as unofficial gatekeepers to their boss, be it the Queen, Charles, or any working royal. It's a form of loyalty I guess.
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