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  #521  
Old 06-19-2021, 03:44 PM
Courtier
 
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The Queen needs to just stop any trials from happening or starting or any investigations of her granddaughter in law and grandson. ANd sides would be taken among the public which would not be a good thing. She abruptly stopped the Burrell trial which was IMO wise on her part. It seems to me the trial would degenerate into a he said she said trial. With accusations tossed back and forth. What would she "yell at" for one thing, how can they "prove it." I don't think she's a bully, otherwise there would have been a long list of accusations against her. She did have "bosses" as an actress, the directors give orders to the actors and actresses as does the producer. They can hire and fire and replace actors and actresses. The problem or root of it is that William did not want Harry to marry her and there probably was resentment. I think if the allegations about Kate complainingabout Meghan are true, it is not a good look for Kate. If it had been a "family squabble," the Queen and Prince of Wales should have intervened and separated them. The two couples were expected to be relatives AND co-workers, which perhaps was too much to ask.
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  #522  
Old 06-19-2021, 03:47 PM
Majesty
 
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Truth is that bullying is somethning that hasn't been taken as seiriously as it should, in hte past.. and companies and organisations dont usually want to tackle it. It can b e hard to prove and since it is usually managers doing it, of course management are not all that keen to investigate it.
in the royal households, staff aren't paid that well, so they probably often move on and of course the bosses ARE royal and used to sycophancy and getting their own way, so its quite likely that bullying or difficult behaviour wasn't tackled all that well. As you say, you can't really sack a Prince or Princess.. and they are probably only now working out ways of dealing with them throwing their weight around.
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  #523  
Old 06-19-2021, 03:52 PM
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Does not a courtier supervise the staff?Apparently Charles has put Michael Fawcett in charge of his household and does the planning and supervision of events and receptions for the Prince of Wales. Charles would not be around doing all the supervision of staff for example. He delegates.
  #524  
Old 06-19-2021, 03:57 PM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandy345 View Post
Does not a courtier supervise the staff?Apparently Charles has put Michael Fawcett in charge of his household and does the planning and supervision of events and receptions for the Prince of Wales. Charles would not be around doing all the supervision of staff for example. He delegates.
What has this to do with allegations of bullying.
  #525  
Old 06-19-2021, 04:01 PM
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A lot. Because it seems odd that Meghan would be supervising staff without an intermediary or a courtier to advise and give orders to the staff.
  #526  
Old 06-19-2021, 04:03 PM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandy345 View Post
A lot. Because it seems odd that Meghan would be supervising staff without an intermediary or a courtier to advise and give orders to the staff.
Im not sure what you mean. Royals deal directly with staff and some of these rows seem to have been iwht very senior staff.. who would be working closely with tehir royal.. not the young woman who opens the post.....
  #527  
Old 06-19-2021, 04:07 PM
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I am curious, and I read stories of Diana when she started out in the family. She had a lady in waiting to guide her as far as protocol with staff and it seemed that Charles supervised the staff instead of Diana. Were these staff members secretaries in Meghan's case or did they do other things like prepare menus for dinner?
  #528  
Old 06-19-2021, 04:09 PM
Royal Highness
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandy345 View Post
The Queen needs to just stop any trials from happening or starting or any investigations of her granddaughter in law and grandson. ANd sides would be taken among the public which would not be a good thing. She abruptly stopped the Burrell trial which was IMO wise on her part. It seems to me the trial would degenerate into a he said she said trial. With accusations tossed back and forth. What would she "yell at" for one thing, how can they "prove it." I don't think she's a bully, otherwise there would have been a long list of accusations against her. She did have "bosses" as an actress, the directors give orders to the actors and actresses as does the producer. They can hire and fire and replace actors and actresses. The problem or root of it is that William did not want Harry to marry her and there probably was resentment. I think if the allegations about Kate complainingabout Meghan are true, it is not a good look for Kate. If it had been a "family squabble," the Queen and Prince of Wales should have intervened and separated them. The two couples were expected to be relatives AND co-workers, which perhaps was too much to ask.
There aren't going to be any trials happening from this. The investigation is so that they know what to change and how to implement it so that a member of staff has a safe way of complaining against a member of the family who isn't an employee per se.

Sides are already being taken by the public and that's not a good thing but that isn't all on the BRF and it's inevitable at this point. The BRF comms teams did try and put out "everyone's fine and just getting on with the next stage in their lives" at the time this was going down.

There are rumours about her behaviour before she married Harry, they're not on topic but they're out there. Of course we should definitely all take these with a pinch of salt. There were a lot of rumours about Harry's behaviour as well and he chose to confirm some of that with admitting being out of control angry and heavily using and drinking so I can believe he would scream at staff.

I suppose they can't prove anything unless anyone has it on tape but if enough people describe a "toxic environment" and can back up their claims with details and witnesses then the palace has to take them serious, as does the law firm investigating.

William allegedly did recommend Harry slow down for reasons that Meghan and Harry have both admitted were problems for them, that she wasn't prepared for everything in her life to be different in a very short space of time. Maybe both let that fester but the excerpt makes it clear that the dossier of complaints against Meghan and Harry were brought to William and after confronting Harry where Harry blew up, William decided he didn't want to share an office any more. He had to take a dossier full of complaints seriously whether they were about Meghan or anyone else. The fact that this got hushed up and there was no actual mechanism to complain about a BRF member is a bad look for KP.

We don't know if Charles or HM got involved at all but it was clearly not just a family squabble at this time, it was affecting staff, apparently severely.

Quote:
If the whole thing is true - and we can assume it all started in 2018 - the RF doesn't look good at all. It failed to defend staffers from a member of the RF going giddy with what she perceived as her new power. It's true that they could hardly fire Meghan as a duchess and if they had tried something to rein her in, she would have cried racism and Harry would have backed her up but still... I can't believe there was no other way but protecting her and letting her go on. Again, IF this is true. I can't wait how Lacey is going to spin it as everyone else's fault but Harry and Meghan's.
Well according to the details in the excerpt Harry did call racism and refuse to listen so I assume Meghan was doing the same. We've heard from the Sussexes that at this time "everything started to change" and it's clear from their POV (although they didn't mention the allegations) that they weren't in the mood to listen to advice or censure. And that their staff were incompetent or refusing to help them. It just seems like a mess all around and I don't assume William was perfect in how he handled everything either.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandy345 View Post
Does not a courtier supervise the staff?Apparently Charles has put Michael Fawcett in charge of his household and does the planning and supervision of events and receptions for the Prince of Wales. Charles would not be around doing all the supervision of staff for example. He delegates.
They interact directly with a lot of their staff, even if the staff member also has a boss. Like anyone in a department might be in a meeting with the head. But a lot of the people who left during the 18 months they were working there were the top people who would have been answering directly to Meghan or in close quarters with her all the time like the female PPO.
  #529  
Old 06-19-2021, 04:14 PM
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William did not tell Meghan to "wait" he told Harry. So apparently there was no direct interaction between William and Meghan where he gave her advice. William also was not specific on how long he wanted them to wait (though it was not his call). Why were the complaints brought to William and not to Charles, the Prince of Wales and in a higher echelon than William? I think this was something for Charles and HM to do not William. I think there were too strong emotions between William and Harry and I think their father and grandmother should have gotten involved.
  #530  
Old 06-19-2021, 04:17 PM
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Perhaps not. But royals are more likely to get away with bad behavour. THey can't be fired and if they dont take a polite hint that their behaviour is unkind and unfair, its not easy to go further is it? But In today's world I think that the RF accept that they have to, that the days of royals throwing their weight around have to be in the past. And I think that the queen in particular is polite to staff because she knows that they have less redress and that royal staff are not paid all that well.. and so i can imagine that she would tell off any family member trhowing a fit at a member of staff whether high or low....
  #531  
Old 06-19-2021, 04:18 PM
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Legal question: Presumably all the staff signed NDAs. The way this usually works in the US is that the other party to that agreement can release the person from that agreement, and then they can talk all they want. Is it the same in the UK? And if so, who is the other party - the Queen, the Royal Family as an institution, or the individual royal who supervised that person? I can see this being an issue in the future...
  #532  
Old 06-19-2021, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UglyAmerican View Post
Legal question: Presumably all the staff signed NDAs. The way this usually works in the US is that the other party to that agreement can release the person from that agreement, and then they can talk all they want. Is it the same in the UK? And if so, who is the other party - the Queen, the Royal Family as an institution, or the individual royal who supervised that person? I can see this being an issue in the future...
if there is an in house legal investigation I cna't imagine that people are not allowed to talk about what happened ot them, because of NDAs. there wouldn't be much point in investigating bullying if the alleged victims could not be frank
  #533  
Old 06-19-2021, 04:29 PM
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Tales of bullying and erratic behavior of royals sell books. My shelves are brimming with books about the BRF, some well-written and some not, and they all contain stories about Charles, Diana, Sarah Ferguson and Andrew acting completely unreasonable with staff. Yelling, screaming, throwing things, all written about by various so-called "royal experts." I take all of the stories, including the Sussex ones, with a grain of salt.

"The Housekeeper's Diary" by Wendy Berry provides some clues as to why a BRF member might get angry -- apparently, staff at Highgrove sat around the staff lounge for hours drinking Charles's wines and liquors while whispering about their employers! If they worked for me, I'd be throwing a few dishes myself.
  #534  
Old 06-19-2021, 04:30 PM
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No matter what the result of the bullying investigation is, one thing is clear: Meghan abused the NDAs her former staff signed. She told Janina that a member of the staff had been sacked for being unprofessional - while this person couldn't retaliate because of the NDA. And this didn't come from a palace source, it came from a friend she had authorized to defend her. To me, it's clear that Meghan has problem recognizing ethics in the workplace. She might be legally entitled to share but I, personally, find it unethical to throw names to friend. This doesn't mean she bullied staff but I won't be surprised if it turned out that she did.

Still, I wonder why Lacey, of all people, decided to include this in his book. A rift between him and Harry and Meghan? A polite warning that he'd no longer be a privileged royal historian if he went up like this? An excerpt published without the follow up which makes it all someone else's fault? In the way The Times presented it, it doesn't jive with what we've seen of him this far.

Anyway, the "William authorized a friend to speak" does denote, IMO, a step away from the "never complain, never explain" strategy the RF had been employing this far. They have the best PRs at their disposal so it certainly wasn't an accident. Perhaps the BP has decided to fight fire with fire? But even so, why would they chose Lacey, with his bias towards Harry and Meghan?
  #535  
Old 06-19-2021, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moran View Post
No matter what the result of the bullying investigation is, one thing is clear: Meghan abused the NDAs her former staff signed. She told Janina that a member of the staff had been sacked for being unprofessional - while this person couldn't retaliate because of the NDA. And this didn't come from a palace source, it came from a friend she had authorized to defend her. To me, it's clear that Meghan has problem recognizing ethics in the workplace. She might be legally entitled to share but I, personally, find it unethical to throw names to friend. This doesn't mean she bullied staff but I won't be surprised if it turned out that she did.

Still, I wonder why Lacey, of all people, decided to include this in his book. A rift between him and Harry and Meghan? A polite warning that he'd no longer be a privileged royal historian if he went up like this? An excerpt published without the follow up which makes it all someone else's fault? In the way The Times presented it, it doesn't jive with what we've seen of him this far.

Anyway, the "William authorized a friend to speak" does denote, IMO, a step away from the "never complain, never explain" strategy the RF had been employing this far. They have the best PRs at their disposal so it certainly wasn't an accident. Perhaps the BP has decided to fight fire with fire? But even so, why would they chose Lacey, with his bias towards Harry and Meghan?
I read some of the book last year and it all seemed to be blaming William (and others ) for All of Harry's problems... so this seems to be a change
  #536  
Old 06-19-2021, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moran View Post
But even so, why would they chose Lacey, with his bias towards Harry and Meghan?
Possibly because giving this story to someone who supported Harry and Meghan makes it look better than giving it to someone who's been against them all along.
  #537  
Old 06-19-2021, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leopoldine View Post
Tales of bullying and erratic behavior of royals sell books. My shelves are brimming with books about the BRF, some well-written and some not, and they all contain stories about Charles, Diana, Sarah Ferguson and Andrew acting completely unreasonable with staff. Yelling, screaming, throwing things, all written about by various so-called "royal experts." I take all of the stories, including the Sussex ones, with a grain of salt.

"The Housekeeper's Diary" by Wendy Berry provides some clues as to why a BRF member might get angry -- apparently, staff at Highgrove sat around the staff lounge for hours drinking Charles's wines and liquors while whispering about their employers! If they worked for me, I'd be throwing a few dishes myself.
Charles late, ex valet, Stephen Barry wrote of some behind the scenes drama as well. Though Wendy's book was only sold outside the UK.
  #538  
Old 06-19-2021, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
Possibly because giving this story to someone who supported Harry and Meghan makes it look better than giving it to someone who's been against them all along.
But the stories have been out there for a while. Presumably Lacey has taken it on board....has investigated a bit and feels that there may be soem truth in it....
  #539  
Old 06-19-2021, 04:47 PM
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Lacey really would have no clue and it is less than credible if he waffles about his opinions. He seemed to have criticism for both Will and Harry.
  #540  
Old 06-19-2021, 04:52 PM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandy345 View Post
Lacey really would have no clue and it is less than credible if he waffles about his opinions. He seemed to have criticism for both Will and Harry.
how would he "have no clue?" He is a well known royal biographer who has written several books about members of the RF. He clearly has contacts in the royal households and since he was previously much more sympathetic to Harry, it sounds as if he has found that there were other issues (which have been mentioned before) that may undermine his previous good opinion of Harry.
He may well feel that there is a lot of smoke about the bullying, and it is senior people who work direclty with the royals who are complaining/speaking out...
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