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  #501  
Old 06-19-2021, 02:00 PM
Majesty
 
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Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
She may have thought that the top-range actresses would and she was now to become a royal highness (so top of the top-range), so her expectations might have been along those lines.
well it was kind of my point that she didn't' have people running after her and treating her as a superior being.. and that being a member of the RF clearly went to her head pretty fast, if she thought that she could make everyone run around after her and cater to her every whim.
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  #502  
Old 06-19-2021, 02:01 PM
ACO ACO is offline
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If Meghan is the bully they claim they are going to eventually have to prove it. The way the media and such dig into these people’s lives, the truth will come out. Just look at it happening now with various people in the news. You can’t hide it. And if she did it will have to answer for her actions.

That said, I’ve yet to see what she did that was bullying. And 5am emails ain’t it. So it will be interesting to see it play out because eventually accusations only go so far without solid evidence. And right many don’t believe it because the evidence is non existent. It comes across to some that they just had issues taking direction from someone they saw as less than them.

Time will tell.
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  #503  
Old 06-19-2021, 02:09 PM
Majesty
 
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There has been rumours of other problems besides "5 am emails". And it sounds like Harry has done his share of yelling and being difficult....
  #504  
Old 06-19-2021, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Yes, they do. Look at the credits following any show on TV. All kinds of people doing different jobs to support the actors and actresses from hair styling to wardrobe and script consultants etc. Maybe not as private secretaries but they're there to make the production run smoothly.
The top people who work for the royals are more like Sir Humphreys to the royal in question's Jim Hacker (from the UK sitcom Yes, Minister) the analogy isn't perfect because the family don't change the way minister do and they have a lot more ability to ignore any advice. But they're highly educated, professional people and if she couldn't tell the difference between them and an over worked production assistant on a TV show then there was no hope for her.

Jason Knauf worked for RBS, Simon Case is now the top civil servant in the UK, Samantha Cohen had been a trusted PA/advisor for many years. They're more like producers and writers than gophers see ELF being the one who helped create Invictus with Harry. She's probably seen The West Wing. The staff are the Leos, Joshes, CJs, Tobys. Nor is there any excuse to bully your PA even if you did think it was just like a TV set. Plenty of actors and showrunners have been called out and cancelled for being terrible on set recently, being narcissistic and creating a toxic environment.

It's not about a culture clash it's about basic politeness and professionalism.

If that wasn't clear to her then it should have been clear to Harry but it seems that in these allegations he was right there with her bullying staff. I've no doubt they're not the only ones who've ever been allegedly terrible to staff because "I'm the royal here!" either but these are the ones currently alleged in the new edition of this book.
  #505  
Old 06-19-2021, 02:16 PM
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We don't know exactly went on between Meghan and members of staff. But, from what that article's saying, Harry went mad because William had listened to the allegations, and thought that he should have refused to believe a word of them without even looking into what had taken place. That would not have been an appropriate way for anyone to handle allegations of workplace bullying. And then, if the article's to be believed, Harry played the racism card. How was that appropriate? If someone is accused of workplace bullying, then that needs to be looked into. The ethnicity of the alleged bully is wholly irrelevant.

It's the same with the tiara stories. Harry seems to have flown off the handle every time anyone said anything! Surely he should have told William that he would speak to Meghan about what had been said and get her side of the story.
  #506  
Old 06-19-2021, 02:18 PM
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Right, the question of "why Harry would allow Meghan to allegedly treat people like this" is almost more unsettling than the idea of Meghan being so destructive.
  #507  
Old 06-19-2021, 02:19 PM
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Jason Knauf would surely not have written just about '5 am emails' - not sure why that keeps being brought up by Meghan's defenders as if that was the worst thing she's been accused of. There was sufficient evidence for the well-respected Jason Knauf - who closely worked with Harry and Meghan also in trying to protect Meghan from the media and in helping her get in touch with her father - to contact his superior.
  #508  
Old 06-19-2021, 02:30 PM
ACO ACO is offline
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If there is sufficient evidence then it will be provided. It really is that simple.

We are outsiders looking in. This is high profile so many will have opinions. Like us on this forum and investigative columnist like this guy—

https://twitter.com/bzbenbryant/stat...040674817?s=21

At the end of the day the truth will be had. There just seems to be a ton of questions that need to answered about these allegations and why it took so long to be dealt with.
  #509  
Old 06-19-2021, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ACO View Post
If there is sufficient evidence them it will be provided. It really is that simple.
No, bullying is often quite difficult to prove as it takes place in private or in front of people who are not that high ranking and dont want to back up accusations because they are afraid themselves. It can be very insidious and create a climate of fear and it is often not investigated properly...
As for the "eamils at 5 am" in themselves, tehy are not bad, but if they were followed up by someone yelling "I send you an eamil at 5 am and you didn't respond by 5.30 am".. "or "why didn't you reply to my email.. " yes it is unreasonable and bad behaviour.
  #510  
Old 06-19-2021, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
Tan over worked production assistant on a TV show then there was no hope for her.

.
Well if she was also pressuring and being difficult with production assistants, in a way that 's worse. But I dont think she was enough of a star to get away with that sort of behaviour with TV gofers and staff......
  #511  
Old 06-19-2021, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
Right, the question of "why Harry would allow Meghan to allegedly treat people like this" is almost more unsettling than the idea of Meghan being so destructive.
Keeping in mind that we have no idea whether any of this is true... I have to say that at this point, if Meghan told Harry that the sky was orange and the grass was purple, and that those saying otherwise were just trying to gaslight him and turn him against her because they're racist, he might believe it. I'm sure he thinks either that the allegations are lies, or that whatever Meghan did was justified by whatever the staffer did. And maybe there's some truth to that position - we don't know.
  #512  
Old 06-19-2021, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
No, bullying is often quite difficult to prove as it takes place in private or in front of people who are not that high ranking and dont want to back up accusations because they are afraid themselves. It can be very insidious and create a climate of fear and it is often not investigated properly...
As for the "eamils at 5 am" in themselves, tehy are not bad, but if they were followed up by someone yelling "I send you an eamil at 5 am and you didn't respond by 5.30 am".. "or "why didn't you reply to my email.. " yes it is unreasonable and bad behaviour.
Disagree. People in this book are being quoted in called her a sociopath and saying she made the working environment hostile. There would absolutely be proof in that. People donít become that way overnight. Most people who have these types of allegations about them will have displayed this in many ways and evidence would be collected. Itís just is especially with someone high profile surrounded by many. So I donít buy into that and eventually people will start digging.
  #513  
Old 06-19-2021, 03:01 PM
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Do you think those who have allegedly been bullied by Meghan - and judging from the latest revelations - also to a varying degree by Harry, will feel inclined to go public and tell their stories in details? Simply because they now feel they may have a sort of "official" backing.
And what would be the result of that? - After all, as has been pointed out, some of these people are highly respected and in positions of prominence.

This surely will worsen the relationship between H&M and William in particular?

It seems to me that the BRF have decided to counter attack, using means that are similar to those of H&M.
We can debate whether that's a wise move in the long run, but if the BRF are going to war on H&M, H&M will lose, unless they have irrefutable evidence to back up their allegations.
It's a question of credibility and recurses, as I see it.
How is W&K's (in particular) public credibility in comparison to H&M?
On whose side is the British press in particular? Well, as I see it H&M have seriously alienated the British press corps.
The BRF has a seriously competent PR corps behind them, with the opportunity and means and contacts to drum up even more recurses.
Backed by leading politicians who are not at all interested in seeing the foremost representatives of UK being time and time again accused of racism and general unpleasant behavior.
Supported by a press corps who want payback.

The battle of the public in Britain is IMO lost. H&M may appeal to hardcore fans of H&M and to de fault detractors of the monarchy/BRF. But for the rest? The best H&M can hope for is indifference.
The battle for the public in USA is slightly more open in my assessment. There is a fanbase in USA. There are quite a few who will react in support of claims of racism - almost by default in some cases.
As for the rest, who cares that is, it's again a question of credibility IMO.
The average American cannot be expected to know the details or the intricacies of how the BRF works, so it's down to who do they believe in? H&M or the BRF.

As for the European public, especially the monarchies. H&M haven't tried to win over the public there and it's my impression that the press coverage on the Continent has gone from very positive and even some sympathy of H&M's allegations, to at best indifference. The positive stories with H&M in the papers are few now. While the rest of the BRF continue to deliver, quietly.

I cannot speak for other monarchists on the Continent, but to me H&M have turned into a horror-story on several levels! Into something I would hate and fear should happen to my own royal family.
  #514  
Old 06-19-2021, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ACO View Post
Disagree. People in this book are being quoted in called her a sociopath and saying she made the working environment hostile. There would absolutely be proof in that. People donít become that way overnight. Most people who have these types of allegations about them will have displayed this in many ways and evidence would be collected. Itís just is especially with someone high profile surrounded by many. So I donít buy into that and eventually people will start digging.
Im not going to argue as I can see the thread being closed agian, but as someone who has been bullied in a workplace, I disagree.
  #515  
Old 06-19-2021, 03:06 PM
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Whether the serious allegations are true or not, we know for a fact Meghan deliberately and by choice joined the family and The Firm without knowing what she was getting into.

Had she done some homework and come prepared, the idea of treating the staff very badly would seem to have far less traction.
  #516  
Old 06-19-2021, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
Whether the serious allegations are true or not, we know for a fact Meghan deliberately and by choice joined the family and The Firm without knowing what she was getting into.

Had she done some homework and come prepared, the idea of treating the staff very badly would seem to have far less traction.
I'd hope that no-one would marry a royal with the idea that they could be tough with the royal staff.
  #517  
Old 06-19-2021, 03:25 PM
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It should not be assumed that Meghan is "guilty." There was tension between the two couples. And before that Will and Harry did not always get along (even before they chose their respective spouses). I think had Diana been around, she would have had words with both her sons when they went through phases of not getting along. There was also tension before the Meghan and Harry wedding because William apparently wanted to break them up. ANd if this allegation of "bullying" took place at all, wouldn't there be some mediation by the Queen herself rather than "courtiers" rushing to the media to complain. Something off about this. It seems to me that if peace was to be restored and resolutions to conflict, the courtiers would not be permitted to leak stories to the media. I don't believe she treated the staff "badly," there are people she had worked for who said she never "bullied' people. Why is it assumed that Meghan is "guilty." The allegation of Kate saying Meghan had an agenda, does not say much good about Kate. I agree about earlier posters that the two couples should not have been expected to be "teamed." I think there is enough work to go around so couples don't have to team up. If there had been tension, I think the separate venues should have been setup sooner rather than later.
  #518  
Old 06-19-2021, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
Whether the serious allegations are true or not, we know for a fact Meghan deliberately and by choice joined the family and The Firm without knowing what she was getting into.

Had she done some homework and come prepared, the idea of treating the staff very badly would seem to have far less traction.
Hmm. I don't know. I think it depends on the person themselves and not whether or not they'd done their homework. I think someone who was truly unprepared but willing to learn would realise that treating staff with basic politeness was a good idea, even if they were lost, scared and suffering. Anyone should realise that screaming at subordinates is being a terrible boss, especially if they're basing their brand on kindness and compassion.

We know from Finding Freedom that Meghan and harry dismissed what advice they were given as wrong for them and in this book's previous edition Lacey blamed William for not coddling Harry and HM for not giving Meghan what she deserved.

Personally the fact that Scobie (with their permission) acknowledged every petty article about them was *true* but in such a way that they were allegedly completely innocent and everyone else was in the wrong is actually making this seem more likely.

And especially as we know a lot staff *did* leave during their 18 months working in the BRF and a lot of staff have continued to leave now they're on their own and in control of their own projects to their hearts' content. That part has nothing to do with the BRF. Although we don't know exactly why they left.

And the fact that the BRF has now called in an outside law firm to conduct an investigation. IF it was just completely made up smears I don't think they'd do this. How true everything is or how serious is yet to be determined but presumably they can prove all the accusations started in 2018.
  #519  
Old 06-19-2021, 03:33 PM
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I don't think William ever coddled Harry. Or was expected to. He should have stayed out of "advising" Harry unless it was called for. This is lethal to fraternal relationships in a lot of households. I think there should be an investigation as to why the courtiers got away with leaking these stories to the media. And not target Meghan specifically. The media seemed to be anti Meghan in many cases before Meghan had a staff to work with. And it got to the point she was accused of changing the engagement ring, until it was found that Harry redesigned the ring. I think there is a lot of blame to go around here.
  #520  
Old 06-19-2021, 03:38 PM
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If the whole thing is true - and we can assume it all started in 2018 - the RF doesn't look good at all. It failed to defend staffers from a member of the RF going giddy with what she perceived as her new power. It's true that they could hardly fire Meghan as a duchess and if they had tried something to rein her in, she would have cried racism and Harry would have backed her up but still... I can't believe there was no other way but protecting her and letting her go on. Again, IF this is true. I can't wait how Lacey is going to spin it as everyone else's fault but Harry and Meghan's.

The idea that she was the soul of cooperation at her workplace before, so this automatically absolves her as a bully in her new position doesn't wash with me. She was never the boss before. She was expendable. Never the star with star power. Of course she'd be nice! Don't tell me I'm the only one who have seen people making mooneyes at the big bosses they work with and shout at the staff who actually arranges the transactions between them and the big boss? Kind to the boss, horrible to the underling is a sad classics.

Emails at 5 am is a ludicrous reason for calling someone a bully. But that isn't the only allegation agains Meghan. And anyway, I have worked with people who called me at 10 p.m. and expected to have something done immediately because they were the assignors. We quickly parted ways because I was a freelancer, not a servant. They laboured under the delusion that they were my bosses. I happen to know some people to whom they were real bosses. I was friends with them. None of them lasted long because these expectations of night work were exhausting - and they weren't the only problem.

An email at 5 a.m. can be nothing or a problem. I suppose we'll see what it was here.
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