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  #381  
Old 10-25-2020, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
I’m cracking up at your “I have your back” line, lol - that probably is how
Lacey would interpret it. His interpretation of William’s comment is insanely ludicrous, and is a perfect example of not just his bias, but also what this book is ...

Given that Lacey seems to be rather harsh on Charles in the book, I wouldn’t be shocked if he blamed him for Andrew’s issues.
From what I've read in several articles (won't buy the book), I kinda feel that some points he made seems to fit C-A better than W-H.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallo girl View Post
I am so disappointed in Lacey, I defended him on here when posters criticised his work with the series THE CROWN... my view was he was only the advisor on historical fact he had no control over the script.. perhaps he wants his book to be the basis of a film on the two princes....so it needs to be juicy.
Well, he does follow a very typical drama storyline:
- rich/blue blooded man meet a commoner and their windwhirl romance
- evil older sibling, good as angel younger one
- us against the world (everyone is evil and don't like us together)
- the man leaves everything (his toxic family etc) for love and they hand in hand happily traipse to the sunset.
The End.
(Though I think nowadays ppl prefer to watch 3 dimentional character, including the villain, so Lacey better to make some change in term of character development).

On a side note, according to Lacey, W surely has so much power as 2nd in line to the throne, doesn't he? Like controlling his brother's life who was in army while he himself was also serving in RAF hence he must have some control in military (for apparently W has controlled H his whole life). Even to the point of micromanage TQ Christmas photos hence control over his grandmother and his father, not to mention BP staff (the part about W wants to send "message" to H with the photo).
Wow, I wonder how powerful he'd be when he's king
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  #382  
Old 10-25-2020, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yukari View Post
From what I've read in several articles (won't buy the book), I kinda feel that some points he made seems to fit C-A better than W-H.


Well, he does follow a very typical drama storyline:
- rich/blue blooded man meet a commoner and their windwhirl romance
- evil older sibling, good as angel younger one
- us against the world (everyone is evil and don't like us together)
- the man leaves everything (his toxic family etc) for love and they hand in hand happily traipse to the sunset.
The End.
(Though I think nowadays ppl prefer to watch 3 dimentional character, including the villain, so Lacey better to make some change in term of character development).

On a side note, according to Lacey, W surely has so much power as 2nd in line to the throne, doesn't he? Like controlling his brother's life who was in army while he himself was also serving in RAF hence he must have some control in military (for apparently W has controlled H his whole life). Even to the point of micromanage TQ Christmas photos hence control over his grandmother and his father, not to mention BP staff (the part about W wants to send "message" to H with the photo).
Wow, I wonder how powerful he'd be when he's king
William the Puppet Master - that should be his name when he's King, lol!
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  #383  
Old 10-25-2020, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
William the Puppet Master - that should be his name when he's King, lol!
He certainly has deceived so many ppl with his innocent smile, hasn't he? Working behind the scene while using his stunning wife and cute kids to deflect everyone's attention from him. What a mastermind he is.
  #384  
Old 10-25-2020, 07:42 PM
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- deleted double post (I swear I hit edit button for typo, why it became new post?)
  #385  
Old 10-25-2020, 07:56 PM
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Are you serious Yukari ?
  #386  
Old 10-25-2020, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moby View Post
I really don't see what the big deal is in being told by a sibling think twice or thrice about important life decisions. No matter the age, I would expect my own siblings to be extremely honest with me. Welcome or unwelcome, I expect them to tell me what they think and I would hope they know the advice will be taken well.

Maybe William overestimated their closeness...or his brother's maturity.
William I think was very unwise in what he did. It can be a big deal. I know of a case where one sibling warned the brother about his future Spouse and was critical of said spouse. Then a rift formed in the family and the marriage was a success and the sibling that offered advice was out in the cold. I think some would find it a big deal and I don't think it was any of Williams business. If Harry asked him for advice, fine. But William was not the one who had to approve of Meghan, that was Her Majesty the Queen. And how William broached it with Harry is known only to them, it could have been said in a tactless way to Harry. Unwanted advice is not called that for nothing. I think William did not show maturity acting that way and if it is true that he ran to CHarles Spencer for help i think that out of line.

Harry could have had reservations about Kate for all that is known but he never was said to have complained about her to William. He welcomed her with open arms.

I hope something is learned from this that advice could be interpreted as trying to come between a couple and In some cases it is.

Most people in Lacey's book did not come out looking good.

William and Harry I think were not all that close. Some of the comments William made about Harry as "jokes" had sort of an edge to them, like saying Harry snores and William has to clean up after him. If he talked that way to Harry about Meghan, as a put down that would have been very unwise.
  #387  
Old 10-25-2020, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rominet09 View Post
Are you serious Yukari ?
I can smell Yukari's sarcasm from here.

William and Harry are brothers. They're not joined at the hip or a dual act as "Diana's boys" nor are they required to walk alike, talk alike, share the same interests or have a conjoined Siamese twin personality.

Siblings squabble and pick on each other and grow up with their own life projections that suit them and them alone. These two don't see eye to eye and the public starts putting "labels" on them. The good son, the bad son, the straight and narrow son, the goofy rambunctious son and the bold and the reserved son. The old Jack Sprat analogy.

Professionally in their public lives, they were going to have different ideas of how things should be done. They both have the right to *not* just be a puppet on a string and concede to the "norm" and go their own way when it doesn't work for them. It works well for William. His life and his family meshes very well with the role laid out before him. He's happy. Harry found his happiness elsewhere and made the decision he wanted for himself and his family. Neither of the brothers are wrong.
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  #388  
Old 10-25-2020, 08:27 PM
AC21091968's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rominet09 View Post
Are you serious Yukari ?
I do think Yukari is being sarcastic and tongue in cheek!!!

Back to Battle of Brothers: William, Harry and the Inside Story of A Family in Tumult, from reading the "teasers" and interview, I'm getting "Finding Freedom" vibe. In other words, Harry and Meghan are victims of the "outdated" "old, stale, pale, male" institution, who expected members to be submissive. Ok, Robert Lacey may not have been that explicit or over-the-top as Omid Scobie, but there seem to be a lot of "finger pointing" on other members of the royal family. From reading the articles, Robert Lacey appeared to blame others for Harry's "mistake" or behaviour, rather than "holding Harry into account/responsibility". Yes, there are negative influences on him, but I don't support Lacey's claim that Harry is 100% innocent, particularly when he reached adulthood.

Based on the overall opinions and mood from reading a lot of posts in this thread (this is a very general statement, I might be wrong here), Harry and Meghan are once again shown to be self-centred who almost insisted on the palace/royal family adopted to their need and change rather than the other way around.
  #389  
Old 10-25-2020, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yukari View Post
He certainly has decieved so many ppl with his innocent smile, hasn't he? Working behind the screen while using his stunning wife and cute kids to deflect everyone's attention from him. What a mastermind he is.


All the while he’s rubbing his hands gleefully and going “heh heh heh he”, twirling his fake mustache and all but tying his grandmother and father on train tracks, making sure they’re out of the way so he can become king right away
  #390  
Old 10-25-2020, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandy345 View Post
William I think was very unwise in what he did. It can be a big deal. I know of a case where one sibling warned the brother about his future Spouse and was critical of said spouse. Then a rift formed in the family and the marriage was a success and the sibling that offered advice was out in the cold. I think some would find it a big deal and I don't think it was any of Williams business. If Harry asked him for advice, fine. But William was not the one who had to approve of Meghan, that was Her Majesty the Queen. And how William broached it with Harry is known only to them, it could have been said in a tactless way to Harry. Unwanted advice is not called that for nothing. I think William did not show maturity acting that way and if it is true that he ran to CHarles Spencer for help i think that out of line.

Harry could have had reservations about Kate for all that is known but he never was said to have complained about her to William. He welcomed her with open arms.

I hope something is learned from this that advice could be interpreted as trying to come between a couple and In some cases it is.

Most people in Lacey's book did not come out looking good.

William and Harry I think were not all that close. Some of the comments William made about Harry as "jokes" had sort of an edge to them, like saying Harry snores and William has to clean up after him. If he talked that way to Harry about Meghan, as a put down that would have been very unwise.

As the second in line, William had to consider not only Harry's personal happiness, but also how his marriage would impact the Royal House.

Harry's marriage to Meghan might or might not be successful in the long run (it is still early to tell), but I think it is fair to say that, even in such a short period of time, it has already proven to be negative for the Royal House at least in the UK and the major Commonwealth realms. In this sense, William's concerns were justified.
  #391  
Old 10-25-2020, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I can smell Yukari's sarcasm from here.

William and Harry are brothers. They're not joined at the hip or a dual act as "Diana's boys" nor are they required to walk alike, talk alike, share the same interests or have a conjoined Siamese twin personality.

Siblings squabble and pick on each other and grow up with their own life projections that suit them and them alone. These two don't see eye to eye and the public starts putting "labels" on them. The good son, the bad son, the straight and narrow son, the goofy rambunctious son and the bold and the reserved son. The old Jack Sprat analogy.

Professionally in their public lives, they were going to have different ideas of how things should be done. They both have the right to *not* just be a puppet on a string and concede to the "norm" and go their own way when it doesn't work for them. It works well for William. His life and his family meshes very well with the role laid out before him. He's happy. Harry found his happiness elsewhere and made the decision he wanted for himself and his family. Neither of the brothers are wrong.
Harry could be handling things a lot better, but I agree either you completely.

This “Diana’s boys” things annoys me anyway as it implies they are more hers than Charles. They are both their parents’ sons, and they also are not twins of their parents, the same way none of us are with our own. Charles has allowed his children the freedom to be who they will, no pressure - not like he got from his father. As a result, the boys have grown into men with different wants and needs from life. William is not going to do everything as PoW as his father has done, and that’s a good thing; it means that he feels confident that he can be as impactful as Charles while putting his own stamp on things. Harry has certainly taken a very different road..he knows his own mind.

I just really resent Lacey for making W and H’s rift bigger than it has to be by trying to place all blame on W and making this into a soap opera with ramifications behind the personal lives of the BRF. That’s hogwash.
  #392  
Old 10-25-2020, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
As the second in line, William had to consider not only Harry's personal happiness, but also how his marriage would impact the Royal House.

Harry's marriage to Meghan might or might not be successful in the long run (it is still early to tell), but I think it is fair to say that, even in such a short period of time, it has already proven to be negative for the Royal House at least in the UK and the major Commonwealth realms. In this sense, William's concerns were justified.

IMO some of William's concerns were for Meghan's transition from leading a very independent life in North America to living one with intensive press scrutiny and the limitation that would be in place as a member of the British Royal Family. He must have known that this would be a difficult transition for her.
  #393  
Old 10-26-2020, 12:21 AM
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Question... Why is everyone believing Lacey's version of events with respect to any conversations William had with Harry or other family members while Harry and Meghan were dating? It seems like the general consensus is that Lacey is spinning everything as William's fault, since they were toddlers. Why take it at face value that William went to Charles Spencer to ask him to speak with Harry about slowing things down with Meghan? It seems equally plausible to me that Harry either told or implied to William that Charles Spencer thought Meghan was the bee's knees and he shouldn't hesitate if he loved her and that William called Uncle Charles up to find out if he'd really said that to Harry and if he did to maybe reconsider the impact that a fast courtship and hasty marriage could have if it didn't work out. We simply don't know what prompted William to call their uncle and ask him to speak to Harry.

We also really don't know what the circumstances were surrounding any "go slowly" advice William offered Harry. Maybe Harry asked for William's advice, expecting that William would be supportive. Maybe Kate told William to stay out of it and just smile and nod. Maybe William didn't recognize that just because Harry was asking that didn't mean Harry wanted an honest answer. Maybe when William offered a lukewarm response, Harry got upset and said "well, Uncle Charles says I should go after her and not let her get cold feet and lose her the way I did Chelsy or Cressida!"

All we really know is the version that Lacey is presenting and it's clearly biased against William and Kate so I take everything with a grain of salt. In addition to that, hey, sometimes you don't even know, in your thirties, to keep your thoughts about your siblings' spouses to yourself. Been there, done that. Luckily, my brother wound up in a much better, healthier relationship once he divorced his cheating ex.
  #394  
Old 10-26-2020, 12:31 AM
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And what if said spouse hadn't been cheating, but was a great person the sibling was very happy with, but critical sibling just didn't like her and unsolicited advice was offered anyway? A lifelong breach?

As far as I remember it was a Royal correspondent ages ago who came out with the story that William told his brother to slow down, not Scobie or Durward or Lacey, but one of those Royal Rota correspondents who were so kind and welcoming to the Sussexes through their Royal lives.
  #395  
Old 10-26-2020, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Sunnystar View Post
All we really know is the version that Lacey is presenting and it's clearly biased against William and Kate so I take everything with a grain of salt.
The biggie for me is that this book was written by a man that most likely has never had a real, sit down, honest to God personal conversation with either William or Harry or their spouses.
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  #396  
Old 10-26-2020, 12:48 AM
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Yes, Osipi and it's is a point but you could say that about many biographers who have written about royal family members. And when that isn't so, Junor, Scobie for instance, accusations fly that they are too close to their subjects. Several pro Charles biographers wrote damning things about Diana but had never exchanged a word with her in their lives.

And often within relationships and families there's 'he said' 'she said' 'he said' again, and the truth is often lost somewhere in the middle.
  #397  
Old 10-26-2020, 01:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunnystar View Post
Question... Why is everyone believing Lacey's version of events with respect to any conversations William had with Harry or other family members while Harry and Meghan were dating? It seems like the general consensus is that Lacey is spinning everything as William's fault, since they were toddlers. Why take it at face value that William went to Charles Spencer to ask him to speak with Harry about slowing things down with Meghan? It seems equally plausible to me that Harry either told or implied to William that Charles Spencer thought Meghan was the bee's knees and he shouldn't hesitate if he loved her and that William called Uncle Charles up to find out if he'd really said that to Harry and if he did to maybe reconsider the impact that a fast courtship and hasty marriage could have if it didn't work out. We simply don't know what prompted William to call their uncle and ask him to speak to Harry.

We also really don't know what the circumstances were surrounding any "go slowly" advice William offered Harry. Maybe Harry asked for William's advice, expecting that William would be supportive. Maybe Kate told William to stay out of it and just smile and nod. Maybe William didn't recognize that just because Harry was asking that didn't mean Harry wanted an honest answer. Maybe when William offered a lukewarm response, Harry got upset and said "well, Uncle Charles says I should go after her and not let her get cold feet and lose her the way I did Chelsy or Cressida!"

All we really know is the version that Lacey is presenting and it's clearly biased against William and Kate so I take everything with a grain of salt. In addition to that, hey, sometimes you don't even know, in your thirties, to keep your thoughts about your siblings' spouses to yourself. Been there, done that. Luckily, my brother wound up in a much better, healthier relationship once he divorced his cheating ex.
I don’t believe a word Lacey is saying. Everything about his book is gross and ugly to me. Whatever information he might have gotten right is completely undercut by his biased, mean-spirited and nasty interpretation of events.

Ok, I admit I did take the Earl Spencer story at face value, but I shouldn’t have. There’s no doubt a lot more to it than Lacey has reported....

I really hope this book does not do as well as he expected.
  #398  
Old 10-26-2020, 01:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
And what if said spouse hadn't been cheating, but was a great person the sibling was very happy with, but critical sibling just didn't like her and unsolicited advice was offered anyway? A lifelong breach?

As far as I remember it was a Royal correspondent ages ago who came out with the story that William told his brother to slow down, not Scobie or Durward or Lacey, but one of those Royal Rota correspondents who were so kind and welcoming to the Sussexes through their Royal lives.
Without straying too far off topic, the cheating part was the icing on the cake of her being a pretty controlling twit who isolated my brother from our mom, which really stabbed our mom in the heart (he is her favorite child, but that's another story, lol, and not one tinged with jealousy since I get plenty of attention as the only daughter, lol). I never really offered much advice to him, one way or the other, but I certainly wasn't impressed with her taking such offense over me challenging his presumed superior knowledge about college football in a FB discussion of all things that he wound up blocking me. Like... What? In the end, whatever misgivings I had about the match turned out to be the correct read on her.

As far as the story about William urging Harry to slow down, I do seem to recall that there were rumblings about something to that affect a few years ago but, again, unless the reporter heard it directly from William or Harry, who knows what spin was being put on the conversation by staff or courtiers.
  #399  
Old 10-26-2020, 02:26 AM
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I agree with so many of you about Lacey and his horrible tone and snobbishness towards the Middletons. This has changed my view of him entirely. I now no longer respect his claims about any royals as being anywhere near the truth.
Someone once said; "A written History is just someone else's Bias." Maybe there is quite a bit of truth to that statement regarding Mr Lacey as it appears he has shown his bias towards Catherine and her family.

I feel for the Middletons as they can't really defend themselves, without upsetting the RF.
  #400  
Old 10-26-2020, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Tarlita View Post
I agree with so many of you about Lacey and his horrible tone and snobbishness towards the Middletons. This has changed my view of him entirely. I now no longer respect his claims about any royals as being anywhere near the truth.
Someone once said; "A written History is just someone else's Bias." Maybe there is quite a bit of truth to that statement regarding Mr Lacey as it appears he has shown his bias towards Catherine and her family.

I feel for the Middletons as they can't really defend themselves, without upsetting the RF.
I take a great deal of pleasure in knowing that BP returned the manuscript of the book Lacey sent them...unopened. That should tell us all we need to know how the Queen - and very likely Charles - feel about this waste of paper.

Everyone seems to adore Kate and like her family, and I’m sure that - beyond William - they are outraged on their behalf (if they’ve been kept in the loop or have read excerpts).

If Lacey’s claims that he spoke to BP and other true insiders are correct, it means that people close to HM, Charles, William, etc..have broken confidences...
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