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  #361  
Old 10-24-2020, 09:31 PM
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That's an interesting review Janet and thank you for it. I would expect better than that from Mr Lacey.
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  #362  
Old 10-25-2020, 06:16 AM
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Thanks, Tarlita. Lacey lost me early on, with his nastiness about a 2 year old William's bad behaviour, as Betsypaige quoted.

And then there's this "the clan (the Middletons) are certainly neither noble or royal. They are a tribe of Internet stallholders at the end of the day - with a keen nose for profit."

What reputable biographer would write a sentence like that, just to sneer at a successful businesswoman - Michael gets a pass from Lacey; Carole and Kate don't.

So disappointing.
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  #363  
Old 10-25-2020, 06:36 AM
Serene Highness
 
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
If Meghan had waited until she was a British citizen before she married she would have been within hailing distance of forty years old. And she and Harry want two children, which if she had waited she would be giving birth to in her forties.

And it has been said that nobody knows what Royal life (including performing engagements) is actually like until they are in the midst of it. Harry was nearly thirty four when he married, old enough to know his own mind and to object to being lectured to by an older brother.

If in my mid thirties I'd been told to slow down before marrying the person I loved I would have told him what to do with his advice. And hardly anyone waits for eight years before marrying.
You are right not everybody waits 8 years to marry, some people never marry just live together.
People do what is right for them, at their age in their circumstances. It is personal to them and who are we to criticise.
  #364  
Old 10-25-2020, 06:49 AM
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Oh for the good old days when couples were betrothed in the cradle and stayed together to the grave. No worries, no hurries and no hassles in the castles.
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To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment. ~~ Ralph Waldo Emerson ~~
  #365  
Old 10-25-2020, 09:00 AM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janet14 View Post
Thanks, Tarlita. Lacey lost me early on, with his nastiness about a 2 year old William's bad behaviour, as Betsypaige quoted.

And then there's this "the clan (the Middletons) are certainly neither noble or royal. They are a tribe of Internet stallholders at the end of the day - with a keen nose for profit."

What reputable biographer would write a sentence like that, just to sneer at a successful businesswoman - Michael gets a pass from Lacey; Carole and Kate don't.

So disappointing.
William was spoiled but so was harry, as a kid.. and its not relaly on them but their parents at the time.
  #366  
Old 10-25-2020, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janet14 View Post
Thanks, Tarlita. Lacey lost me early on, with his nastiness about a 2 year old William's bad behaviour, as Betsypaige quoted.

And then there's this "the clan (the Middletons) are certainly neither noble or royal. They are a tribe of Internet stallholders at the end of the day - with a keen nose for profit."

What reputable biographer would write a sentence like that, just to sneer at a successful businesswoman - Michael gets a pass from Lacey; Carole and Kate don't.

So disappointing.
My god, Lacey was really scraping the bottom of the barrel with those comments about toddler Will.

His comments about Kate and her family are abhorrent ....Is there something wrong with wanting to make money to support your family? Or just to make money? Because if so, Lacey is also a raging hypocrite considering what H and M are doing. I will never forgive him his making Kate sound like a gold-digging, Prince-chaser...
  #367  
Old 10-25-2020, 12:07 PM
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okay - started Lacey book. I must admit I brought it on his reputation and since then have been considering if that was a wise choice.
But I fail to understand his major argument - that none of this would have happened if Harry and Meghan were treated not as minor royals. Confused at how they were treated as minor royals - but then again maybe it was that they were not allowed to have their own PR office run by an American PR firm. Or that they wanted to change the royal rota as they wanted to stop having to work with the newspapers that were publishing unfavorable articles to them.
So essentially Lacey wanted the palace to give H& M everything they wanted - as they were popular, young and appealed to a younger non - white group. My sister who read it before me, says it more that a son of Diana and a rich American of race needs to be treated differently. And therefore could not be swept under the carpet like other unneeded royals, aka - Prince Andrew, Prince Edward, Princess Anne , Princess Margaret. I wonder if M&H had the same idea in their head that they were due special treatment.
But it makes no different M&H blackmailing has worked, expecting them to get everything they want before the year is done.
  #368  
Old 10-25-2020, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire View Post
okay - started Lacey book. I must admit I brought it on his reputation and since then have been considering if that was a wise choice.
But I fail to understand his major argument - that none of this would have happened if Harry and Meghan were treated not as minor royals. Confused at how they were treated as minor royals - but then again maybe it was that they were not allowed to have their own PR office run by an American PR firm. Or that they wanted to change the royal rota as they wanted to stop having to work with the newspapers that were publishing unfavorable articles to them.
So essentially Lacey wanted the palace to give H& M everything they wanted - as they were popular, young and appealed to a younger non - white group. My sister who read it before me, says it more that a son of Diana and a rich American of race needs to be treated differently. And therefore could not be swept under the carpet like other unneeded royals, aka - Prince Andrew, Prince Edward, Princess Anne , Princess Margaret. I wonder if M&H had the same idea in their head that they were due special treatment.
But it makes no different M&H blackmailing has worked, expecting them to get everything they want before the year is done.
Not sure what you mean buy this last sentence.. M and H didn't get what they wanted - in that they wanted to be half in and half out of Royal life...
  #369  
Old 10-25-2020, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post

His comments about Kate and her family are abhorrent ....Is there something wrong with wanting to make money to support your family? Or just to make money? Because if so, Lacey is also a raging hypocrite considering what H and M are doing.
Apparently some consider it indicates more class to inherit your money, rather than make it yourself.
  #370  
Old 10-25-2020, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire View Post
okay - started Lacey book. I must admit I brought it on his reputation and since then have been considering if that was a wise choice.
But I fail to understand his major argument - that none of this would have happened if Harry and Meghan were treated not as minor royals. Confused at how they were treated as minor royals - but then again maybe it was that they were not allowed to have their own PR office run by an American PR firm. Or that they wanted to change the royal rota as they wanted to stop having to work with the newspapers that were publishing unfavorable articles to them.
So essentially Lacey wanted the palace to give H& M everything they wanted - as they were popular, young and appealed to a younger non - white group. My sister who read it before me, says it more that a son of Diana and a rich American of race needs to be treated differently. And therefore could not be swept under the carpet like other unneeded royals, aka - Prince Andrew, Prince Edward, Princess Anne , Princess Margaret. I wonder if M&H had the same idea in their head that they were due special treatment.
But it makes no different M&H blackmailing has worked, expecting them to get everything they want before the year is done.

I must admit, Lacey’s position blows my mind. I can only assume that he feels the Monarchy is too old-fashioned, too stuck in its ways....If so, that’s his thing - I disagree, but he’s allowed his opinion. However, his belief that the BRF need to give in to the spoiled, demanding Sussexes is ludicrous. The books just seems like...what’s the British term..whinging...it’s hundreds of pages of whinging by a gossipy, nasty “historian” who thinks he knows best.
  #371  
Old 10-25-2020, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
Apparently some consider it indicates more class to inherit your money, rather than make it yourself.
I have nothing against anyone inheriting $$, but Lacey’s attitude does reek of snobbery.

This book speaks volumes about him.
  #372  
Old 10-25-2020, 03:19 PM
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I must say, Lacey’s take on Tiaragate makes more sense than previously reported elsewhere. Queen Mary was known to purchase Romanov jewels from various emigre family members, which the current queen continues to wear with regularity. Thus, it was not being Russian that was the issue, but how it was obtained. Many Romanov jewels were stolen by unscrupulous Bolsheviks and surreptitiously sold for their personal profit. If Queen Mary’s known passion for jewels led her to purchase one of these purloined treasures, I can indeed see the problem. Especially since Queen Mary’s husband has been accused of not doing enough to save the Czar’s family from being slaughtered.
  #373  
Old 10-25-2020, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by mothrpoet View Post
I must say, Lacey’s take on Tiaragate makes more sense than previously reported elsewhere. Queen Mary was known to purchase Romanov jewels from various emigre family members, which the current queen continues to wear with regularity. Thus, it was not being Russian that was the issue, but how it was obtained. Many Romanov jewels were stolen by unscrupulous Bolsheviks and surreptitiously sold for their personal profit. If Queen Mary’s known passion for jewels led her to purchase one of these purloined treasures, I can indeed see the problem. Especially since Queen Mary’s husband has been accused of not doing enough to save the Czar’s family from being slaughtered.
How would Meghan know about the tiaras. This was a woman who claimed to know nothing about Harry or his family prior to meeting him. The usual practice we have been told is that the queen arranges for a selection to be shown to the bride from which she takes her choice. Why would she be shown something that she could not have.
  #374  
Old 10-25-2020, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post

His comments about Kate and her family are abhorrent ....Is there something wrong with wanting to make money to support your family? Or just to make money? ...

He is just regurgitating the old-fashioned aristocratic despise for "tradesmen".
  #375  
Old 10-25-2020, 03:56 PM
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I am so disappointed in Lacey, I defended him on here when posters criticised his work with the series THE CROWN... my view was he was only the advisor on historical fact he had no control over the script.. perhaps he wants his book to be the basis of a film on the two princes....so it needs to be juicy.
  #376  
Old 10-25-2020, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
He is just regurgitating the old-fashioned aristocratic despise for "tradesmen".
Which, for an historian, is a no-go. That is, whatever opinions he holds about such things should be kept private - he forgot his primary job is to elucidate facts, not offer up opinions. I’m also judging Lacey for holding that particular opinion .. He’s, ultimately, a snob.
  #377  
Old 10-25-2020, 04:43 PM
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There are still a surprising amount of people who won't forgive Kate and the Middletons for being self-made middle class, even (especially) those who are also middle class. And they don't dream that they could marry William or that their daughters could either.
  #378  
Old 10-25-2020, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
Apparently some consider it indicates more class to inherit your money, rather than make it yourself.
I mean look how people looked down on Meghan for making her own money and having a career. So that’s not surprising. People called her a golddigger on top if it too. The Middletons at least are English, so despite people looking down they still are better than Meghan in many’s eyes. It’s all nonsense though.
  #379  
Old 10-25-2020, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
He is just regurgitating the old-fashioned aristocratic despise for "tradesmen".

Sad to see a historian who would hold those views in the 21st century.There are many of the married in members of the BRF do come from a middle class background: Sophie, Catherine, Meghan, Brigitte, and Timothy among them.
  #380  
Old 10-25-2020, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by TLLK View Post
Sad to see a historian who would hold those views in the 21st century.There are many of the married in members of the BRF do come from a middle class background: Sophie, Catherine, Meghan, Brigitte, and Timothy among them.

Yes, middle-class royal brides/grooms have become more common (maybe even the norm?) in recent generations. The Dutch and the Scandinavians seem to be at ease with it, but for some Brits it is still an issue. The Spaniards, I think, are even worse, see e.g. the amount of abuse directed at Queen Letizia for being the granddaughter of a taxi driver and things like that. The Belgians also seem to be rather conservative in those matters (Laurent married a middle-class woman, but his sister married another royal and his brother married the daughter of a nobleman from an old family).

I suppose that, in the case of the UK and also of Spain (maybe also in Belgium too, but I'm not sure), the fact that those countries still have a prominent aristocracy has an impact on social perceptions of class and rank, even among the middle-class as Heavs said.
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