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  #321  
Old 10-21-2020, 11:21 AM
ACO ACO is offline
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Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
I still donít have any issues with William expressing his concerns to Harry ...I do have a problem with Harryís reaction. I also donít have any issue with Kate, who I donít think did anything wrong.
It also depends on how you say it. Letís be real here... these brothers know each other very well. Harry likely knew *exactly* what William meant in whatever he said. I donít think the brothers have been close in years but put up a nice PR front as one would expect. And frankly I doubt those close to them are really surprised they are alienated from each other.

IMHO they all got what they wanted ó the Sussexes are gone. Everyone has moved on.

On the Times 100 Talk? I enjoyed the conversations. Harry and Meghan have never implied they were experts. In fact they constantly talk of having spoken to people who have expertise in various subjects. They clearly been researching and building networks for the past year and will continue to do so.

Nice to see Archewell is up. I would guess the launch is not far away.
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  #322  
Old 10-21-2020, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by ACO View Post
It also depends on how you say it. Let’s be real here... these brothers know each other very well. Harry likely knew *exactly* what William meant in whatever he said. I don’t think the brothers have been close in years but put up a nice PR front as one would expect. And frankly I doubt those close to them are really surprised they are alienated from each other.

IMHO they all got what they wanted — the Sussexes are gone. Everyone has moved on.

On the Times 100 Talk? I enjoyed the conversations. Harry and Meghan have never implied they were experts. In fact they constantly talk of having spoken to people who have expertise in various subjects. They clearly been researching and building networks for the past year and will continue to do so.

Nice to see Archewell is up. I would guess the launch is not far away.

You can believe what you will, but there is no proof that W had any ulterior motive beyond brotherly concern in suggesting to his brother that he was moving too quickly with M. The fact that Harry freaked out is no surprise considering he only ever wants to be told “yes”...

As for everyone getting what they wanted, I guess that’s true if “everyone” is defined only by Harry and Meghan. I don’t think anyone wanted those two gone except themselves
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  #323  
Old 10-21-2020, 12:25 PM
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There is no proof either way. We are all guessing based on third hand info.
  #324  
Old 10-21-2020, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ACO View Post
There is no proof either way. We are all guessing based on third hand info.

In real life, if Person A is going to accuse Person B of something or even just believe something negative about that Person B, the burden of proof is on Person A. Thatís how I see this situation with W and H. In the absence of evidence that W had ulterior, negative motives in expressing his concern to H, Iím assuming goodwill on the formerís part. There wouldnít ever be any evidence to prove William was acting out of concern - how can there be? There would only be evidence if he were acting out of malicious self-interest or other unpleasant tendencies...and there is none.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I strongly disagree that we are both guessing.
  #325  
Old 10-21-2020, 01:18 PM
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Of course we are both guessing.

We don’t really know these brothers but we all know family dynamics. So when I say that if Harry took offense to something his brother allegedly said, then it likely was with reason. Again they were in the alleged conversation, not us.

We all have our biases but that doesn’t change the fact we have zero clue what happened other than the fact the brothers clearly aren’t on good terms and the Sussexes left. That’s really it. The rest is just whatever.
  #326  
Old 10-21-2020, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
In real life, if Person A is going to accuse Person B of something or even just believe something negative about that Person B, the burden of proof is on Person A. Thatís how I see this situation with W and H. In the absence of evidence that W had ulterior, negative motives in expressing his concern to H, Iím assuming goodwill on the formerís part. There wouldnít ever be any evidence to prove William was acting out of concern - how can there be? There would only be evidence if he were acting out of malicious self-interest or other unpleasant tendencies...and there is none.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I strongly disagree that we are both guessing.
I think it is simply logical to assume William had no malice in his actions, but only concern, by looking into the brothers history. Honestly I have never seen a single time where William was ill treating Harry. There has never been smoke to suggest any different!
I find it quite delusional to suggest otherwise. (sorry for the harsh word, but I can't believe people are seriously thinking William had nothing but loving intentions when asking Harry to maybe take things down a bit slower with a woman Harry barely knew)

Any loving sibling would rightfully be concerned about their sibling and raise the question of whether they are sure about making a specific major life change/decision especially if there is worry that this decision is a bad life direction the sibling would end up regarding (I say this as someone who was in Harry's place a decade ago, and while I don't totally regret the choice I made, I do wish I had made some decisions differently and maybe listened to my older sister advice. In most cases the person who knows you best is your sibling, especially if they are older than you!)
  #327  
Old 10-21-2020, 02:52 PM
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Perhaps there is one good advantage to all the public interest in the "feud" between the brothers. At least with the exit to the US and starting their new private life to achieve things the way the want to, Harry and Meghan will never be accused of doing a "Sarah" and be selling access to William.
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  #328  
Old 10-21-2020, 03:09 PM
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Give it time. No one knows what the future has in store?
  #329  
Old 10-21-2020, 03:11 PM
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It's always been obvious there was a rift. Their relationship looks strained by just them standing next to each other. I think William meant it from a good place when he was giving him a warning but Harry is hot headed and took it the wrong way. I think that was one of the decisions they left is because Harry probably told Meghan what William said and it made things awkward.
  #330  
Old 10-21-2020, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duchess_Watcher View Post
https://www.cosmopolitan.com/enterta...-markle-labor/

lol Prince William really does not like Meghan Markle huh?
I don't understand the tone of this article. Harry and Meghan could simply have delayed the news and announced "We have a baby!" after they'd returned home, but according to the article, that's not what they did. Instead, after they'd returned home, they announced that Meghan had gone into labor but not that the baby had been born. That's dishonest and, frankly, kind of nuts. William and Kate had already had three children in the same media spotlight, so it's just crazy to say he didn't know what it was like. William is known for having always been very protective of his and Kate's privacy, but I don't think he's ever crossed the line into outright lying to the media about whether a huge newsworthy event has taken place or not.

The complaints about William and Kate waiting a week to visit and not bringing are just petty. If they'd brought all three of their own kids, someone would have complained about them being insensitive by inflicting the noise and chaos of three young children on Meghan while she was recovering. If Kate had spent the visit minding her own children rather than cooing over the baby, they'd be complaining that Kate wasn't interested in Archie. If they'd brought a nanny to mind the kids while both parents visited with Meghan and Archie, they'd have complained about Meghan being expected to visit with the staff rather than just family.
  #331  
Old 10-21-2020, 04:24 PM
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William may very well have been pushing the envelope. He tested the waters and when he saw that Harry was not too pleased with this, he could have backed off. In my opinion, it can be a touchy subject when a sibling gives advice which can be unwanted. And it comes to interfering with another couple's relationship or could be interpreted that way. Also Harry was not an 18 year old ready to elope and william caught him. Harry was a grown man who had dated seriously two other women had had other relationships. William's language or approach to Harry may not have been tactful and if so that would certainly cause problems. If Harry wanted advice I believe he would have asked for it. Also other people in Harry's family have been divorced, Harry's cousin Peter is getting a divorce, the latest of several who have sought divorces, so it is not as if all of them had lasting marriages. I think there were many issues that led to their leaving, I do think they worried a lot about Archie and he was getting negative comments from the media and on social media sites. They would be worried about that. I also think William could have been more friendly and accepting of Meghan. Harry welcomed Kate warmly and perhaps he was disappointed william did not do the same with Meghan. It had to have been really extreme for them to leave. I think also the signs of the feud were there and perhaps an intervention could have taken place (through Charles?) early on before it got out of control.

I don't have a problem with Harry's reaction, I think it is not a good idea for a sibling to offer unwanted advice and William may have come across as being negative about Meghan and Harry did not like it. It does take two to make disagreements.
  #332  
Old 10-21-2020, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by UglyAmerican View Post
I don't understand the tone of this article. Harry and Meghan could simply have delayed the news and announced "We have a baby!" after they'd returned home, but according to the article, that's not what they did. Instead, after they'd returned home, they announced that Meghan had gone into labor but not that the baby had been born. That's dishonest and, frankly, kind of nuts. William and Kate had already had three children in the same media spotlight, so it's just crazy to say he didn't know what it was like. William is known for having always been very protective of his and Kate's privacy, but I don't think he's ever crossed the line into outright lying to the media about whether a huge newsworthy event has taken place or not.
Not just according to the article. This is a well-known fact that was reported in the days after Archie's birth as the times didn't add up. The only somewhat logical reason was that they wanted to give the press a heads up that they should be ready for the formal announcement.
  #333  
Old 10-21-2020, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
Not just according to the article. This is a well-known fact that was reported in the days after Archie's birth as the times didn't add up. The only somewhat logical reason was that they wanted to give the press a heads up that they should be ready for the formal announcement.
Thanks! I figured as much, but wasn't sure, because I somehow managed to miss that little drama. Why couldn't they just have said "We'll be making an announcement at 6:00 p.m." or whatever time, rather than "Meghan's gone into labor?"
  #334  
Old 10-21-2020, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by muriel View Post
I agree with you, siblings need to be careful when voicing an opinion on a potential partner for their sibling. But boy, was William right in this case!
I don't think William was right. The couple is still together and have a baby. If Harry had listened to William and dropped Meghan and married someone else, he could have been miserable with the "second choice." Sometimes it is better not to say anything and it does cause alienation and rifts. I have seen cases where a sibling 'warns' his brother or sister about their partners. The marriage turns out to be a great success but the couple do not welcome the critical sibling to their home nor speak to him ever again. Especially if the criticism of the siblings' partner tends to be harsh.
  #335  
Old 10-21-2020, 04:48 PM
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IIRC with the announcement they didn’t say she was in labor. The wording was definitely past tense which many of the media picked up on. They had figured she had already given birth. The issue was that within 15 minute they got that notice and then it was announced on the baby was a boy.

The palace then made it seem a hiccup occurred where the email didn’t send with the heads up but either way they clearly were never going to tell them until meghan was back home. That whole thing was weird cause I didn’t understand why so much media was in Windsor when they knew no one was seeing the baby for days.
  #336  
Old 10-21-2020, 04:57 PM
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At the time that William gave his brother the unsolicited and unwanted advice had he met 'this girl' more than a couple of times himself? And as for taking it way from a confidential talk between the two of them, he went off and spoke to his uncle Earl Spencer about the possible marriage, a man whose own record in marital relationships could be described as spotty to say the least.

And of course William was also thinking about the possible repercussions of Meghan joining the RF in terms of what was later called by the Press as 'the Fab Four'. If Harry had been thinking of proposing to some meek Henrietta from the shires who would have been quite content to trail behind himself and Kate for the rest of their lives on Royal engagements and State occasions I wonder if William would have been so alarmed. I believe not.
  #337  
Old 10-21-2020, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post

And of course William was also thinking about the possible repercussions of Meghan joining the RF in terms of what was later called by the Press as 'the Fab Four'. If Harry had been thinking of proposing to some meek Henrietta from the shires who would have been quite content to trail behind himself and Kate for the rest of their lives on Royal engagements and State occasions I wonder if William would have been so alarmed. I believe not.
And that would have been a worse thing for the monarchy William is going to have to one day head... how?
  #338  
Old 10-22-2020, 03:58 AM
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Well other than the aforementioned above, there's also possibility that (if it really happened) William's advice was not only out of concern for Harry, but especially for Meghan.
Yes, for most of us, two years dating before marrying is normal, but Meghan doesn't marry an ordinary-Joe or a younger son of an owner of global foodchain bussiness. She's marrying a younger son of future king of Britain.

For one, there's a culture shock to consider. More often than not, it's not easy for an ordinary woman to adapt when she marries into different culture, and that without media scrutiny. And on top of it, this is British Royal Family we're talking about, full of old fashioned tradition and protocols.

Being two years older, William surely has better understanding about what their mother had been through more than Harry. And that point, William also understands how BRF and British media work. Diana was from aristocratic family yet she struggled to adapt with the royal family and to deal with the media. Yes she's young but she's from same culture, Meghan is older but from different culture. And a good portion of M-H's dating period was long distance. And to be told of the circumstance and think that "okay, I can handle it", is completely different than to experience it (which we see that she isn't able to).

Perhaps what William meant was for Meghan to stay longer in England so she really knew what she would face, one year maybe. And perhaps, fearing than this girlfriend would bolt out and leave him when things get hard (like his other two previous girlfriends) Harry rushed to the wedding before she changed her mind and sadly in the end, we have Meghan as victim here.

But that's just my opinion.
  #339  
Old 10-22-2020, 04:16 AM
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Originally Posted by ACO View Post
IIRC with the announcement they didnít say she was in labor. The wording was definitely past tense which many of the media picked up on. They had figured she had already given birth. The issue was that within 15 minute they got that notice and then it was announced on the baby was a boy.

The palace then made it seem a hiccup occurred where the email didnít send with the heads up but either way they clearly were never going to tell them until meghan was back home. That whole thing was weird cause I didnít understand why so much media was in Windsor when they knew no one was seeing the baby for days.
I think the royal rota know what happened here - or they have put pieces of information together and are just waiting for confirmation to publish. This is what I think it was - M&H had a agreement for an exclusive with an American TV company , which included first pics of Archie. The palace found out and threw a fit and it was cancelled at the last minute. So the announcement was seen by many of the press of a snub at the palace and them. M& H were told they will informed the public of Archie's birth. They did - they just didn't do it when it was actually happening. The action was seen as childish by the palace, especially when the press pointed it out. There were apparently meetings requested with M&H's press people, the palace and the rota - it was a mess. I have had old royal journalists telling me it was worse then the early 1990's. The offices appeared to be at war with each.
  #340  
Old 10-22-2020, 04:34 AM
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That doesn’t really make a lot of sense to me. The media got a lot with Archie’s birth. Harry’s sweet excitement outside the stables. The interview showing off the baby. The image with HMQ, Prince Philip and Doria.

Frankly all this stuff about US media sounds rubbish. By now Meghan and Doria should have had 10 exclusive interviews.
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