Battle of Brothers: William, Harry and the Inside Story of A Family in Tumult

[Tarlita]

That's an interesting review Janet and thank you for it. I would expect better than that from Mr Lacey.

 

[winifred]

Thanks, Tarlita. Lacey lost me early on, with his nastiness about a 2 year old William's bad behaviour, as Betsypaige quoted.

And then there's this "the clan (the Middletons) are certainly neither noble or royal. They are a tribe of Internet stallholders at the end of the day - with a keen nose for profit."

What reputable biographer would write a sentence like that, just to sneer at a successful businesswoman - Michael gets a pass from Lacey; Carole and Kate don't.

So disappointing.

 

[Hallo girl]

If Meghan had waited until she was a British citizen before she married she would have been within hailing distance of forty years old. And she and Harry want two children, which if she had waited she would be giving birth to in her forties.

And it has been said that nobody knows what Royal life (including performing engagements) is actually like until they are in the midst of it. Harry was nearly thirty four when he married, old enough to know his own mind and to object to being lectured to by an older brother.

If in my mid thirties I'd been told to slow down before marrying the person I loved I would have told him what to do with his advice. And hardly anyone waits for eight years before marrying.

You are right not everybody waits 8 years to marry, some people never marry just live together.
People do what is right for them, at their age in their circumstances. It is personal to them and who are we to criticise.

 

[Osipi]

Oh for the good old days when couples were betrothed in the cradle and stayed together to the grave. No worries, no hurries and no hassles in the castles.

 

[Denville]

Thanks, Tarlita. Lacey lost me early on, with his nastiness about a 2 year old William's bad behaviour, as Betsypaige quoted.

And then there's this "the clan (the Middletons) are certainly neither noble or royal. They are a tribe of Internet stallholders at the end of the day - with a keen nose for profit."

What reputable biographer would write a sentence like that, just to sneer at a successful businesswoman - Michael gets a pass from Lacey; Carole and Kate don't.

So disappointing.

William was spoiled but so was harry, as a kid.. and its not relaly on them but their parents at the time.

 

[Betsypaige]

Thanks, Tarlita. Lacey lost me early on, with his nastiness about a 2 year old William's bad behaviour, as Betsypaige quoted.

And then there's this "the clan (the Middletons) are certainly neither noble or royal. They are a tribe of Internet stallholders at the end of the day - with a keen nose for profit."

What reputable biographer would write a sentence like that, just to sneer at a successful businesswoman - Michael gets a pass from Lacey; Carole and Kate don't.

So disappointing.

My god, Lacey was really scraping the bottom of the barrel with those comments about toddler Will.

His comments about Kate and her family are abhorrent ....Is there something wrong with wanting to make money to support your family? Or just to make money? Because if so, Lacey is also a raging hypocrite considering what H and M are doing. I will never forgive him his making Kate sound like a gold-digging, Prince-chaser...

 

[Claire]

okay - started Lacey book. I must admit I brought it on his reputation and since then have been considering if that was a wise choice.
But I fail to understand his major argument - that none of this would have happened if Harry and Meghan were treated not as minor royals. Confused at how they were treated as minor royals - but then again maybe it was that they were not allowed to have their own PR office run by an American PR firm. Or that they wanted to change the royal rota as they wanted to stop having to work with the newspapers that were publishing unfavorable articles to them.
So essentially Lacey wanted the palace to give H& M everything they wanted - as they were popular, young and appealed to a younger non - white group. My sister who read it before me, says it more that a son of Diana and a rich American of race needs to be treated differently. And therefore could not be swept under the carpet like other unneeded royals, aka - Prince Andrew, Prince Edward, Princess Anne , Princess Margaret. I wonder if M&H had the same idea in their head that they were due special treatment.
But it makes no different M&H blackmailing has worked, expecting them to get everything they want before the year is done.

 

[Denville]

okay - started Lacey book. I must admit I brought it on his reputation and since then have been considering if that was a wise choice.
But I fail to understand his major argument - that none of this would have happened if Harry and Meghan were treated not as minor royals. Confused at how they were treated as minor royals - but then again maybe it was that they were not allowed to have their own PR office run by an American PR firm. Or that they wanted to change the royal rota as they wanted to stop having to work with the newspapers that were publishing unfavorable articles to them.
So essentially Lacey wanted the palace to give H& M everything they wanted - as they were popular, young and appealed to a younger non - white group. My sister who read it before me, says it more that a son of Diana and a rich American of race needs to be treated differently. And therefore could not be swept under the carpet like other unneeded royals, aka - Prince Andrew, Prince Edward, Princess Anne , Princess Margaret. I wonder if M&H had the same idea in their head that they were due special treatment.
But it makes no different M&H blackmailing has worked, expecting them to get everything they want before the year is done.

Not sure what you mean buy this last sentence.. M and H didn't get what they wanted - in that they wanted to be half in and half out of Royal life...

 

[Mirabel]

His comments about Kate and her family are abhorrent ....Is there something wrong with wanting to make money to support your family? Or just to make money? Because if so, Lacey is also a raging hypocrite considering what H and M are doing.

Apparently some consider it indicates more class to inherit your money, rather than make it yourself.

 

[Betsypaige]

okay - started Lacey book. I must admit I brought it on his reputation and since then have been considering if that was a wise choice.
But I fail to understand his major argument - that none of this would have happened if Harry and Meghan were treated not as minor royals. Confused at how they were treated as minor royals - but then again maybe it was that they were not allowed to have their own PR office run by an American PR firm. Or that they wanted to change the royal rota as they wanted to stop having to work with the newspapers that were publishing unfavorable articles to them.
So essentially Lacey wanted the palace to give H& M everything they wanted - as they were popular, young and appealed to a younger non - white group. My sister who read it before me, says it more that a son of Diana and a rich American of race needs to be treated differently. And therefore could not be swept under the carpet like other unneeded royals, aka - Prince Andrew, Prince Edward, Princess Anne , Princess Margaret. I wonder if M&H had the same idea in their head that they were due special treatment.
But it makes no different M&H blackmailing has worked, expecting them to get everything they want before the year is done.

I must admit, Lacey’s position blows my mind. I can only assume that he feels the Monarchy is too old-fashioned, too stuck in its ways....If so, that’s his thing - I disagree, but he’s allowed his opinion. However, his belief that the BRF need to give in to the spoiled, demanding Sussexes is ludicrous. The books just seems like...what’s the British term..whinging...it’s hundreds of pages of whinging by a gossipy, nasty “historian” who thinks he knows best.

 

[Betsypaige]

Apparently some consider it indicates more class to inherit your money, rather than make it yourself.

I have nothing against anyone inheriting $$, but Lacey’s attitude does reek of snobbery.

This book speaks volumes about him.

 

[mothrpoet]

I must say, Lacey’s take on Tiaragate makes more sense than previously reported elsewhere. Queen Mary was known to purchase Romanov jewels from various emigre family members, which the current queen continues to wear with regularity. Thus, it was not being Russian that was the issue, but how it was obtained. Many Romanov jewels were stolen by unscrupulous Bolsheviks and surreptitiously sold for their personal profit. If Queen Mary’s known passion for jewels led her to purchase one of these purloined treasures, I can indeed see the problem. Especially since Queen Mary’s husband has been accused of not doing enough to save the Czar’s family from being slaughtered.

 

[Hallo girl]

I must say, Lacey’s take on Tiaragate makes more sense than previously reported elsewhere. Queen Mary was known to purchase Romanov jewels from various emigre family members, which the current queen continues to wear with regularity. Thus, it was not being Russian that was the issue, but how it was obtained. Many Romanov jewels were stolen by unscrupulous Bolsheviks and surreptitiously sold for their personal profit. If Queen Mary’s known passion for jewels led her to purchase one of these purloined treasures, I can indeed see the problem. Especially since Queen Mary’s husband has been accused of not doing enough to save the Czar’s family from being slaughtered.

How would Meghan know about the tiaras. This was a woman who claimed to know nothing about Harry or his family prior to meeting him. The usual practice we have been told is that the queen arranges for a selection to be shown to the bride from which she takes her choice. Why would she be shown something that she could not have.

 

[Mbruno]

His comments about Kate and her family are abhorrent ....Is there something wrong with wanting to make money to support your family? Or just to make money? ...

He is just regurgitating the old-fashioned aristocratic despise for "tradesmen".

 

[Hallo girl]

I am so disappointed in Lacey, I defended him on here when posters criticised his work with the series THE CROWN... my view was he was only the advisor on historical fact he had no control over the script.. perhaps he wants his book to be the basis of a film on the two princes....so it needs to be juicy.

 

[Betsypaige]

He is just regurgitating the old-fashioned aristocratic despise for "tradesmen".

Which, for an historian, is a no-go. That is, whatever opinions he holds about such things should be kept private - he forgot his primary job is to elucidate facts, not offer up opinions. I’m also judging Lacey for holding that particular opinion .. He’s, ultimately, a snob.

 

[Heavs]

There are still a surprising amount of people who won't forgive Kate and the Middletons for being self-made middle class, even (especially) those who are also middle class. And they don't dream that they could marry William or that their daughters could either.

 

[ACO]

Apparently some consider it indicates more class to inherit your money, rather than make it yourself.

I mean look how people looked down on Meghan for making her own money and having a career. So that’s not surprising. People called her a golddigger on top if it too. The Middletons at least are English, so despite people looking down they still are better than Meghan in many’s eyes. It’s all nonsense though.

 

[TLLK]

He is just regurgitating the old-fashioned aristocratic despise for "tradesmen".

Sad to see a historian who would hold those views in the 21st century.There are many of the married in members of the BRF do come from a middle class background: Sophie, Catherine, Meghan, Brigitte, and Timothy among them.

 

[Mbruno]

Sad to see a historian who would hold those views in the 21st century.There are many of the married in members of the BRF do come from a middle class background: Sophie, Catherine, Meghan, Brigitte, and Timothy among them.

Yes, middle-class royal brides/grooms have become more common (maybe even the norm?) in recent generations. The Dutch and the Scandinavians seem to be at ease with it, but for some Brits it is still an issue. The Spaniards, I think, are even worse, see e.g. the amount of abuse directed at Queen Letizia for being the granddaughter of a taxi driver and things like that. The Belgians also seem to be rather conservative in those matters (Laurent married a middle-class woman, but his sister married another royal and his brother married the daughter of a nobleman from an old family).

I suppose that, in the case of the UK and also of Spain (maybe also in Belgium too, but I'm not sure), the fact that those countries still have a prominent aristocracy has an impact on social perceptions of class and rank, even among the middle-class as Heavs said.

 

[yukari]

I’m cracking up at your “I have your back” line, lol - that probably is how
Lacey would interpret it. His interpretation of William’s comment is insanely ludicrous, and is a perfect example of not just his bias, but also what this book is ...

Given that Lacey seems to be rather harsh on Charles in the book, I wouldn’t be shocked if he blamed him for Andrew’s issues.

From what I've read in several articles (won't buy the book), I kinda feel that some points he made seems to fit C-A better than W-H.

I am so disappointed in Lacey, I defended him on here when posters criticised his work with the series THE CROWN... my view was he was only the advisor on historical fact he had no control over the script.. perhaps he wants his book to be the basis of a film on the two princes....so it needs to be juicy.

Well, he does follow a very typical drama storyline:
- rich/blue blooded man meet a commoner and their windwhirl romance
- evil older sibling, good as angel younger one
- us against the world (everyone is evil and don't like us together)
- the man leaves everything (his toxic family etc) for love and they hand in hand happily traipse to the sunset.
The End.
(Though I think nowadays ppl prefer to watch 3 dimentional character, including the villain, so Lacey better to make some change in term of character development).

On a side note, according to Lacey, W surely has so much power as 2nd in line to the throne, doesn't he? Like controlling his brother's life who was in army while he himself was also serving in RAF hence he must have some control in military (for apparently W has controlled H his whole life). Even to the point of micromanage TQ Christmas photos hence control over his grandmother and his father, not to mention BP staff (the part about W wants to send "message" to H with the photo).
Wow, I wonder how powerful he'd be when he's king

 

[Betsypaige]

From what I've read in several articles (won't buy the book), I kinda feel that some points he made seems to fit C-A better than W-H.


Well, he does follow a very typical drama storyline:
- rich/blue blooded man meet a commoner and their windwhirl romance
- evil older sibling, good as angel younger one
- us against the world (everyone is evil and don't like us together)
- the man leaves everything (his toxic family etc) for love and they hand in hand happily traipse to the sunset.
The End.
(Though I think nowadays ppl prefer to watch 3 dimentional character, including the villain, so Lacey better to make some change in term of character development).

On a side note, according to Lacey, W surely has so much power as 2nd in line to the throne, doesn't he? Like controlling his brother's life who was in army while he himself was also serving in RAF hence he must have some control in military (for apparently W has controlled H his whole life). Even to the point of micromanage TQ Christmas photos hence control over his grandmother and his father, not to mention BP staff (the part about W wants to send "message" to H with the photo).
Wow, I wonder how powerful he'd be when he's king

William the Puppet Master - that should be his name when he's King, lol!

 

[yukari]

William the Puppet Master - that should be his name when he's King, lol!

He certainly has deceived so many ppl with his innocent smile, hasn't he? Working behind the scene while using his stunning wife and cute kids to deflect everyone's attention from him. What a mastermind he is. ?

 

[yukari]

- deleted double post (I swear I hit edit button for typo, why it became new post?)

 

[rominet09]

Are you serious Yukari ?

 

[Sandy345]

I really don't see what the big deal is in being told by a sibling think twice or thrice about important life decisions. No matter the age, I would expect my own siblings to be extremely honest with me. Welcome or unwelcome, I expect them to tell me what they think and I would hope they know the advice will be taken well.

Maybe William overestimated their closeness...or his brother's maturity.

William I think was very unwise in what he did. It can be a big deal. I know of a case where one sibling warned the brother about his future Spouse and was critical of said spouse. Then a rift formed in the family and the marriage was a success and the sibling that offered advice was out in the cold. I think some would find it a big deal and I don't think it was any of Williams business. If Harry asked him for advice, fine. But William was not the one who had to approve of Meghan, that was Her Majesty the Queen. And how William broached it with Harry is known only to them, it could have been said in a tactless way to Harry. Unwanted advice is not called that for nothing. I think William did not show maturity acting that way and if it is true that he ran to CHarles Spencer for help i think that out of line.

Harry could have had reservations about Kate for all that is known but he never was said to have complained about her to William. He welcomed her with open arms.

I hope something is learned from this that advice could be interpreted as trying to come between a couple and In some cases it is.

Most people in Lacey's book did not come out looking good.

William and Harry I think were not all that close. Some of the comments William made about Harry as "jokes" had sort of an edge to them, like saying Harry snores and William has to clean up after him. If he talked that way to Harry about Meghan, as a put down that would have been very unwise.

 

[Osipi]

Are you serious Yukari ?

I can smell Yukari's sarcasm from here.

William and Harry are brothers. They're not joined at the hip or a dual act as "Diana's boys" nor are they required to walk alike, talk alike, share the same interests or have a conjoined Siamese twin personality.

Siblings squabble and pick on each other and grow up with their own life projections that suit them and them alone. These two don't see eye to eye and the public starts putting "labels" on them. The good son, the bad son, the straight and narrow son, the goofy rambunctious son and the bold and the reserved son. The old Jack Sprat analogy.

Professionally in their public lives, they were going to have different ideas of how things should be done. They both have the right to *not* just be a puppet on a string and concede to the "norm" and go their own way when it doesn't work for them. It works well for William. His life and his family meshes very well with the role laid out before him. He's happy. Harry found his happiness elsewhere and made the decision he wanted for himself and his family. Neither of the brothers are wrong.

 

[AC21091968]

Are you serious Yukari ?

I do think Yukari is being sarcastic and tongue in cheek!!! ?

Back to Battle of Brothers: William, Harry and the Inside Story of A Family in Tumult, from reading the "teasers" and interview, I'm getting "Finding Freedom" vibe. In other words, Harry and Meghan are victims of the "outdated" "old, stale, pale, male" institution, who expected members to be submissive. Ok, Robert Lacey may not have been that explicit or over-the-top as Omid Scobie, but there seem to be a lot of "finger pointing" on other members of the royal family. From reading the articles, Robert Lacey appeared to blame others for Harry's "mistake" or behaviour, rather than "holding Harry into account/responsibility". Yes, there are negative influences on him, but I don't support Lacey's claim that Harry is 100% innocent, particularly when he reached adulthood.

Based on the overall opinions and mood from reading a lot of posts in this thread (this is a very general statement, I might be wrong here), Harry and Meghan are once again shown to be self-centred who almost insisted on the palace/royal family adopted to their need and change rather than the other way around.

 

[Betsypaige]

He certainly has decieved so many ppl with his innocent smile, hasn't he? Working behind the screen while using his stunning wife and cute kids to deflect everyone's attention from him. What a mastermind he is. ?

All the while he’s rubbing his hands gleefully and going “heh heh heh he”, twirling his fake mustache and all but tying his grandmother and father on train tracks, making sure they’re out of the way so he can become king right away

 

[Mbruno]

William I think was very unwise in what he did. It can be a big deal. I know of a case where one sibling warned the brother about his future Spouse and was critical of said spouse. Then a rift formed in the family and the marriage was a success and the sibling that offered advice was out in the cold. I think some would find it a big deal and I don't think it was any of Williams business. If Harry asked him for advice, fine. But William was not the one who had to approve of Meghan, that was Her Majesty the Queen. And how William broached it with Harry is known only to them, it could have been said in a tactless way to Harry. Unwanted advice is not called that for nothing. I think William did not show maturity acting that way and if it is true that he ran to CHarles Spencer for help i think that out of line.

Harry could have had reservations about Kate for all that is known but he never was said to have complained about her to William. He welcomed her with open arms.

I hope something is learned from this that advice could be interpreted as trying to come between a couple and In some cases it is.

Most people in Lacey's book did not come out looking good.

William and Harry I think were not all that close. Some of the comments William made about Harry as "jokes" had sort of an edge to them, like saying Harry snores and William has to clean up after him. If he talked that way to Harry about Meghan, as a put down that would have been very unwise.

As the second in line, William had to consider not only Harry's personal happiness, but also how his marriage would impact the Royal House.

Harry's marriage to Meghan might or might not be successful in the long run (it is still early to tell), but I think it is fair to say that, even in such a short period of time, it has already proven to be negative for the Royal House at least in the UK and the major Commonwealth realms. In this sense, William's concerns were justified.