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  #221  
Old 10-11-2020, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandy345 View Post
I don't think william was exactly flawless in this situation. I think he does share some responsibility for it. Just looking at them as a family, it is generally a bad idea to offer unsolicited advice about a sibling's personal life.Even though Harry did not "listen" supposedly, then William should have been gracious about it. He is not an older brother by many years and not the Head of the Family. If he had been more accepting, I don't think Harry and Meghan would have left. William should try to "soften" and make compromises and be diplomatic. He was not the one who had to approve the marriage. Her Majesty had to. William's glaring at Harry during the service did not help matters any. I think William could have said more than just telling Harry to wait, he might have said not so nice things about Meghan and made judgments about her. I think the closeness of the brother has been exaggerated. It is normal for siblings to move on and set up their own households and not constantly be in each other's company. Harry was very gracious to Kate when she came into the family. Two people make a feud and both have to take their share of the blame. So many average families have had this situation, where a sibling does not approve of a brother or sister's choice of spouse. It can turn out that the marriage is happy but the sibling alienated them both and has caused a rift that may be permanent. So the sibling is not invited to christenings, birthdays and so on. It can happen in any family and often does.
Sounds like William had been willing to overlook Harry's impulsivity. Though I'm sure now he's quite happy to say "Told you so". Just the fact that Harry and Meghan stayed at their home two Christmases in a row, they had the public forum with the couple pre-marriage to appease the Sussexes, and even Sussex sources acknowledge William lobbied for H&M to get more funding and their own office since the couple wanted more autonomy. Frankly outside of physically bowing down to the couple I'm not sure what else William could have done to prop them up. They were never going to be compatible to the BRF with their commercial/political/celebrity heavy approach, and since we know Harry doesn't like or want William's advice, it's not like William could of stopped them from self-destructing.

I agree that Harry closeness to both William and Catherine has been exaggerated . I remember when they broke-up in 2007, the media reported Harry was pleased with the break-up because he wasn't keen on her. And then when they got engaged in 2010 Harry made that throw away comment about needing to get to know her, even though she'd been with his brother for 8 years. And I don't think that relationship improved much post-marriage, since just like pre-marriage Harry never attended any of Catherine birthday gatherings. And while the Cambridges would vacation with the Middletons you never saw them on vacation with Harry. So you're right that Harry has his share of the blame on that front, he was critical and hesitant about Catherine yet he was upset that William was the same about Meghan. And Harry took several years (8 plus) to give Catherine a chance at least publicly, yet William was suppose to change his misgivings in less than two years.

Will the brothers' relationship ever rebound so that they can be relaxed and jolly in each others presence? We don't know. I guess I see them growing further apart and having minimal contact outside of family holidays like Christmas. I just don't think it will be a big loss, because William has a lot of other family and friends (who I think he's always been much closer to) and Harry's personality will probably be a much more natural fit for a ruleless, back-patting Hollywood. I do feel for Charles because he'll have less access to Harry and Archie but everyone else shouldn't suffer much from any estrangement.
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  #222  
Old 10-11-2020, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Presumably he has an opinion based on resesarch. He will have interviewed people who know the brothers...
Now that reminds me of a tune that REO Speedwagon did. "Heard it from a friend who heard it from a friend who heard it from another you been messin' around". Lacey could interview half of the UK that "knows" William and Harry and *still* get it all wrong. Lacey is an example of "Take It On The Run".
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  #223  
Old 10-11-2020, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLLK View Post
An interesting suggestion evolvingdoors and honestly he'd likely naturally gravitated to a curriculum that was based upon these subjects. I'd tweek it a bit by incorporating a homeschooling network in which groups of students do meet up so that they can work together as a team which offers the necessary social interaction that children and teens do need IMVHO.
Oh absolutely to your suggestion, I did not think otherwise.
I do wonder if there are any aristocrats and wealthy Harry's age who were home schooled.
  #224  
Old 10-11-2020, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Now that reminds me of a tune that REO Speedwagon did. "Heard it from a friend who heard it from a friend who heard it from another you been messin' around". Lacey could interview half of the UK that "knows" William and Harry and *still* get it all wrong. Lacey is an example of "Take It On The Run".
I presume that Lacey has interviewed peopel who know the brothers and has at least talked to them on occasion, so while he may not know the whole story, he has a better idea than most people about what's going on wiht them.
  #225  
Old 10-11-2020, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miss whirley View Post
Sounds like William had been willing to overlook Harry's impulsivity. Though I'm sure now he's quite happy to say "Told you so". Just the fact that Harry and Meghan stayed at their home two Chr

Will the brothers' relationship ever rebound so that they can be relaxed and jolly in each others presence? We don't know. I guess I see them growing further apart and having minimal contact outside of family holidays like Christmas. I just don't think it will be a big loss, because William has a lot of other family and friends (who I think he's always been much closer to) and Harry's personality will probably be a much more natural fit for ruleless, back-patting Hollywood. I do feel for Charles because he'll have less access to to Harry and Archie but everyone else shouldn't suffer much from any estrangement.
Its a loss for William who has lost not only his only brother but the one person close in age to him who was meant to be his working companion for much of his life. And the only son of his mother... who has died. I think its sad if they do lose touch but i have a feeling that they will.. if H continues in LA and with Meghan.
  #226  
Old 10-11-2020, 01:29 PM
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yes, but it is better not to have a working companion when that working companion works halfheartedly and is a liability because he wants to do his own stuff which conflicts with what your joint work would need.

sometimes it's better for familymembers to not live too close...as the saying goes "absence makes the heart grow fonder"
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  #227  
Old 10-11-2020, 01:31 PM
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There actually aren't that many top-level public schools, and Gordonstoun is and always has been unusual. I think Eton was a good choice for William, who is more academic. If Diana hadn't died when Harry was close to the age for going to public school, maybe they might have chosen somewhere different for Harry, but I think it was felt that, under the circumstances, he'd be better somewhere near home and at the same school as his brother.


Homeschooling is rare in the UK now, unless there's a particular reason such as a medical condition. It would have been thought very odd if Harry hadn't gone to school. Maybe it would have worked for him, but I would doubt it was ever considered.
  #228  
Old 10-11-2020, 02:03 PM
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Personally I always felt that Diana was the main sway towards Eton, Charles even looked at Harrow as a possibility. They did shop around - their names weren't already written up at birth.
  #229  
Old 10-11-2020, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee-Z View Post
yes, but it is better not to have a working companion when that working companion works halfheartedly and is a liability because he wants to do his own stuff which conflicts with what your joint work would need.

sometimes it's better for familymembers to not live too close...as the saying goes "absence makes the heart grow fonder"
I agree. I think this is especially true with William and Harry. I don't think it's a coincidence that they seemed to have gotten along best in the past when they were far away from each other. The two times the media reported their relationship to be in a bad place is when they were in regular close contact, when they were both at Eton, then again when they were both full-time royals. The years that they seemed to get along best were when William was away at University, and when Harry was in the Army and William the RAF.

I see them as oil and water, two people that would have never befriended each other if they weren't brothers with a shared traumatic experience. And while incompatible siblings can often semi-avoid one another that wasn't really an option here where there is a family business (the BRF).
  #230  
Old 10-11-2020, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miss whirley View Post
Sounds like William had been willing to overlook Harry's impulsivity. Though I'm sure now he's quite happy to say "Told you so". Just the fact that Harry and Meghan stayed at their home two Christmases in a row, they had the public forum with the couple pre-marriage to appease the Sussexes, and even Sussex sources acknowledge William lobbied for H&M to get more funding and their own office since the couple wanted more autonomy. Frankly outside of physically bowing down to the couple I'm not sure what else William could have done to prop them up. They were never going to be compatible to the BRF with their commercial/political/celebrity heavy approach, and since we know Harry doesn't like or want William's advice, it's not like William could of stopped them from self-destructing.

I agree that Harry closeness to both William and Catherine has been exaggerated . I remember when they broke-up in 2007, the media reported Harry was pleased with the break-up because he wasn't keen on her. And then when they got engaged in 2010 Harry made that throw away comment about needing to get to know her, even though she'd been with his brother for 8 years. And I don't think that relationship improved much post-marriage, since just like pre-marriage Harry never attended any of Catherine birthday gatherings. And while the Cambridges would vacation with the Middletons you never saw them on vacation with Harry. So you're right that Harry has his share of the blame on that front, he was critical and hesitant about Catherine yet he was upset that William was the same about Meghan. And Harry took several years (8 plus) to give Catherine a chance at least publicly, yet William was suppose to change his misgivings in less than two years.

Will the brothers' relationship ever rebound so that they can be relaxed and jolly in each others presence? We don't know. I guess I see them growing further apart and having minimal contact outside of family holidays like Christmas. I just don't think it will be a big loss, because William has a lot of other family and friends (who I think he's always been much closer to) and Harry's personality will probably be a much more natural fit for a ruleless, back-patting Hollywood. I do feel for Charles because he'll have less access to Harry and Archie but everyone else shouldn't suffer much from any estrangement.
I think Harry really had not gotten to know Kate that well at the time of the engagement. Both William and Harry were going in different directions and in different places. Kate and William had said she did not meet the Queen until 2008, at Peter Phillips wedding. Harry still publicly welcomed Kate to the family. Also Meghan and Harry were in their thirties when they got married. They were not "kids" anymore. Some of the vacations of William and Kate were with the Middletons and I doubt Harry was invited. He was seeing his then girlfriend Chelsy and her family in Africa, and Kate and William did not go with him. Both had their own circle and were close to their partners' families.

Kate's birthday parties were not given a lot of PR until her last birthday. It is not known what Harry did he could have sent her presents. He also was busy in the military and had a busy life.

I never heard that Harry sat William down and told him to "think about" marrying Kate.

I don't see any reason why William should tell Harry "I told you so." Harry has his family now a wife and son. And there is nothing wrong with that! Plus a lot of "normal life" was disrupted by COVID to put it mildly.
  #231  
Old 10-11-2020, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Presumably he has an opinion based on resesarch. He will have interviewed people who know the brothers...
I’m sure he did interview sources, but no one has any idea as to what the future holds for W and H’s relationship; all Robert Lacey is interested in doing is publicizing his book
  #232  
Old 10-11-2020, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miss whirley View Post
Sounds like William had been willing to overlook Harry's impulsivity. Though I'm sure now he's quite happy to say "Told you so". Just the fact that Harry and Meghan stayed at their home two Christmases in a row, they had the public forum with the couple pre-marriage to appease the Sussexes, and even Sussex sources acknowledge William lobbied for H&M to get more funding and their own office since the couple wanted more autonomy. Frankly outside of physically bowing down to the couple I'm not sure what else William could have done to prop them up. They were never going to be compatible to the BRF with their commercial/political/celebrity heavy approach, and since we know Harry doesn't like or want William's advice, it's not like William could of stopped them from self-destructing.

I agree that Harry closeness to both William and Catherine has been exaggerated . I remember when they broke-up in 2007, the media reported Harry was pleased with the break-up because he wasn't keen on her. And then when they got engaged in 2010 Harry made that throw away comment about needing to get to know her, even though she'd been with his brother for 8 years. And I don't think that relationship improved much post-marriage, since just like pre-marriage Harry never attended any of Catherine birthday gatherings. And while the Cambridges would vacation with the Middletons you never saw them on vacation with Harry. So you're right that Harry has his share of the blame on that front, he was critical and hesitant about Catherine yet he was upset that William was the same about Meghan. And Harry took several years (8 plus) to give Catherine a chance at least publicly, yet William was suppose to change his misgivings in less than two years.

Will the brothers' relationship ever rebound so that they can be relaxed and jolly in each others presence? We don't know. I guess I see them growing further apart and having minimal contact outside of family holidays like Christmas. I just don't think it will be a big loss, because William has a lot of other family and friends (who I think he's always been much closer to) and Harry's personality will probably be a much more natural fit for a ruleless, back-patting Hollywood. I do feel for Charles because he'll have less access to Harry and Archie but everyone else shouldn't suffer much from any estrangement.
ICAM with the bolded part....

I think we just have to give William and Harry time - maybe their relationship will never be what it was, or maybe it will, or maybe it will settle into something else. It hasnít been that long, though, and I do think time apart will help. No matter what happens, they will always love each other. I hope that it wonít take something happening with Charles again to bring them together.

Harry has chosen to separate himself from his family, not just William: he didnít go to Sandringham last Christmas, and he turned down HMís invitation to Balmoral this year (before quarantine, etc..). I do feel sorry for Charles that he wonít be as physically close to Harry and Archie, but Iím glad at least that heís closer than ever to William. It seems heís made an effort to spend more time with George, Charlotte and Louis.....Iím sure that is a great comfort to him.
  #233  
Old 10-11-2020, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Sandy345 View Post
I think Harry really had not gotten to know Kate that well at the time of the engagement. Both William and Harry were going in different directions and in different places. Kate and William had said she did not meet the Queen until 2008, at Peter Phillips wedding. Harry still publicly welcomed Kate to the family. Also Meghan and Harry were in their thirties when they got married. They were not "kids" anymore. Some of the vacations of William and Kate were with the Middletons and I doubt Harry was invited. He was seeing his then girlfriend Chelsy and her family in Africa, and Kate and William did not go with him. Both had their own circle and were close to their partners' families.

Kate's birthday parties were not given a lot of PR until her last birthday. It is not known what Harry did he could have sent her presents. He also was busy in the military and had a busy life.

I never heard that Harry sat William down and told him to "think about" marrying Kate.

I don't see any reason why William should tell Harry "I told you so." Harry has his family now a wife and son. And there is nothing wrong with that! Plus a lot of "normal life" was disrupted by COVID to put it mildly.
That's not true at all. Her birthdays have gotten a lot of media attention , more so than William's birthdays. Everytime she's had a birthday gathering (and there has been several over the years) there has been media coverage. And like I said Harry has never been pictured or reported at any of those gatherings. But he also hasn't been reported at any of William's birthday parties since 2008, so like I said any estrangement with the brothers isn't likely to affect William's personal life that much as I believe the two have already been on rather separate orbits.
  #234  
Old 10-11-2020, 03:11 PM
Majesty
 
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Originally Posted by Lee-Z View Post
yes, but it is better not to have a working companion when that working companion works halfheartedly and is a liability because he wants to do his own stuff which conflicts with what your joint work would need.

sometimes it's better for familymembers to not live too close...as the saying goes "absence makes the heart grow fonder"
Agree but if Harry had stayed, he would have been a full time working royal and would be there to support William.
  #235  
Old 10-11-2020, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
There actually aren't that many top-level public schools, and Gordonstoun is and always has been unusual. I think Eton was a good choice for William, who is more academic. If Diana hadn't died when Harry was close to the age for going to public school, maybe they might have chosen somewhere different for Harry, but I think it was felt that, under the circumstances, he'd be better somewhere near home and at the same school as his brother.


Homeschooling is rare in the UK now, unless there's a particular reason such as a medical condition. It would have been thought very odd if Harry hadn't gone to school. Maybe it would have worked for him, but I would doubt it was ever considered.
yes Diana did feel that Harry wouldn't be up to Eton, but when she died, the RF were problaby worried at the idea of H being at soem other school, perhaps far away from family support, and decided on Eton where he could be close to his family and to William. I agree about Home schooling.. I doubt if it was ever considered.
  #236  
Old 10-11-2020, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
Iím sure he did interview sources, but no one has any idea as to what the future holds for W and Hís relationship; all Robert Lacey is interested in doing is publicizing his sleazy book
I doont see what is sleazy about it, He may not be a serious writer but as royal writers go, he's one of the more respected ones. Of course no-one knows what the future holds but if he has been talking to H's and WIll's staff or friends and reached this conclusion, I'd say there's a possibility that it will turn out to be the right one. I dont think they'll hate each other - I hope they'll become closer again, but if H stays in LA, I think William will probably feel some resentment that he was left to carry all the burden.. and Harry will probably still feel resentment that William criticised his wife. And htey wont see enough of each other perhaps to get comfortable again...
  #237  
Old 10-11-2020, 03:52 PM
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I doubt home schooling was ever considered because apart from anything else boarding did give both boys stability and routine after a breaking/broken marriage and both parents working, sometimes at the other end of the country or all over the world. A good housemaster (and his wife) can be particularly helpful, traditionally.

It also gave them the chance to be "just one of the boys" and make close friendships that they still had/have today. A tutor, nanny and servants don't provide that. Bea has dyslexia and did well at school and uni and seemed to enjoy it well enough.

Even before they were married Kate's birthdays used to garner massive media attention because it was always thought William might propose or a proposal might be announced. Her 25th birthday was the most infamous for that with the world's media basically camped out on her door step. Since their marriage it's been widely noted every year.

My favourite phrase when talking about siblings who get on better further apart is "they love each other better from a distance" and it applies to a lot of families. If that's the case here, maybe if things settle down on the Sussex front with time and less need to score points, they'll start communicating.
  #238  
Old 10-11-2020, 04:14 PM
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I agree, i don't think they ever considered homeschooling. Royal children need school to make friends and to have more discipline in their lives and with Will and Harry, they only had Charles who was a busy man so I think it was important that they had a disciplined life, where they would meet people who'd be their friends in later life.
I dont know how close WIll and HARry were but I think its not as close as the media sometimes gave the impression and I wuold not have siad they were so radically different that they didn't get on... I think that Will has tried to look out for his brother, but I suspect that the marriage to Meghan, esp if Meg didn't like the RF and Harry was annoyed at Will saying he shoudl take his time, is going to impact on their relationship now.
  #239  
Old 10-11-2020, 04:52 PM
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I'm sure William always wanted to look out for Harry after Diana died.

The question is, how often did Harry not want to be looked after? (Probably a lot, and certainly not these last several years.)
  #240  
Old 10-11-2020, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I doont see what is sleazy about it, He may not be a serious writer but as royal writers go, he's one of the more respected ones. Of course no-one knows what the future holds but if he has been talking to H's and WIll's staff or friends and reached this conclusion, I'd say there's a possibility that it will turn out to be the right one. I dont think they'll hate each other - I hope they'll become closer again, but if H stays in LA, I think William will probably feel some resentment that he was left to carry all the burden.. and Harry will probably still feel resentment that William criticised his wife. And htey wont see enough of each other perhaps to get comfortable again...
My posts all over this thread pretty much explain why. Robert Lacey is a very respected historian and heís been one of my favorite Royal go-toís die years, but Iíve lost so much respect for him. The idea that William and Harryís rift is as devastating as the Abdication crisis is outrageous hyperbole; from the excerpts Iíve seen of the book, itís overheated and gossipy.

As to the brothers, none of us knows how their relationship will evolve, but I think itís ludicrous for Lacey to act as if he knows that itís permanently ruined ...I donít care who heís spoken to. Weíll just have to let it play out.
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