Battle of Brothers: William, Harry and the Inside Story of A Family in Tumult

[poppy7]

To be clear, I’m not saying that Harry didn’t know that William would be King one day. I’m also not suggesting he should have been locked in a closet somewhere and taken no part in royal life with his family. But what you know is one thing. Day to day lived experience is another and I would suggest that William and Harry were treated with too much equality for too long a time. Some of that may have been due to the chaotic events the BRF was living through when W and H were children and adolescents. Everyone had bigger things to worry about for many years.

I don’t agree that early differentiation between William and Harry would have been unkind or unfair. I see most of today’s monarchies differentiating between the heir and the other children more than the BRF did with William and Harry at similar ages and it doesn’t seem to be causing major problems. Just because one child takes precedence in official royal life doesn’t mean the other children are loved any less, or are treated less well in private life.

To me it seems much less kind to bring a child up with certain expectations and attitudes that aren’t realistic.

I don't think they did. William, and British heirs in general, have far less prominence as children than let's say what Infanta Leonor does.

I don't think that was ever to blame. William was not the heir. His grandmother, even then you could tell she had incredible health and wouldn't be going anywhere soon.

William and Harry had a lot of people around them to provide the support their parents quite frankly couldn't. There was no need to sperate the boys from eachother. If Harry belated developed issues about being a younger brother I would suggest his marriage played a role. Harry appears, as his ex Cressida seems to think, self obsessed.

 

[akina21]

But it does seem at times that the fact that he was second son, only began to strike him in the past few years and when it hit him, he (and Meg) began to feel upset about it and wanted out...

I think it started with the birth of the Cambridge kids , when he went from spare to also there .

 

[Betsypaige]

I don't think they did. William, and British heirs in general, have far less prominence as children than let's say what Infanta Leonor does.

I don't think that was ever to blame. William was not the heir. His grandmother, even then you could tell she had incredible health and wouldn't be going anywhere soon.

William and Harry had a lot of people around them to provide the support their parents quite frankly couldn't. There was no need to sperate the boys from each other. If Harry belated developed issues about being a younger brother I would suggest his marriage played a role. Harry appears, as his ex Cressida seems to think, self obsessed.

I agree with this. I believe Meghan has encouraged Harry's insecurities ....though, he allows her to; I'm not laying this all at her feet. Harry is an adult, and whatever decisions he makes are his own and no one else's.

All of the recent posts, IMO, are relevant to the book because this is the subject that Lacey has chosen to write about. In any case, I don't think William and Harry are so different from any one else. Many people have problematic relationships with their siblings - either from the start or after some event/incident. It hasn't been that long - time will tell what their relationship will eventually be. Based on what I've read and what I know about this book, I am strongly against it. To me, it's nothing but a money grab.

 

[Sandy345]

I don't think William and Harry were that close to begin with. If they had a really close relationship, I think both would have understood the other more and both would have understood the feelings of one another better. They each had and have their own lives and choices which is as it should be. Harry wanted to get married and not be the bachelor uncle and one who was third wheel, Fab Three member or whatever he as called in relation to Kate and William. William is still heir to the heir, he is not in a position to tell his brother what to do in his private life and it was up to HM to approve the engagement and wedding. I could understand it if Harry went to him to get his advice. From what I gather it was unsolicited advice. Whatever was said between the brothers must have been some sort of a dispute. I think perhaps their father should have intervened. I think HM and Charles were aware of it but hoped the problem would be resolved. I think this took an intervention between the brothers so this situation did not deteriorate to the extent that the younger brother left with his family. I don't blame Meghan I think she and Harry will have a good marriage and settle down. I think Harry wanted out for a while now. I think when they became parents both became more concerned about how the negative media would impact their son as he grew up. Archie was even subjected to negative comments which I found unfortunate.

 

[TLLK]

I agree with this. I believe Meghan has encouraged Harry's insecurities ....though, he allows her to; I'm not laying this all at her feet. Harry is an adult, and whatever decisions he makes are his own and no one else's.

All of the recent posts, IMO, are relevant to the book because this is the subject that Lacey has chosen to write about. In any case, I don't think William and Harry are so different from any one else. Many people have problematic relationships with their siblings - either from the start or after some event/incident. It hasn't been that long - time will tell what their relationship will eventually be. Based on what I've read and what I know about this book, I am strongly against it. To me, it's nothing but a money grab.

Agreed especially with the bolded part of your post. This is a relationship that is decades old and like so many around the globe, will have its high and low points. They've been close before and I believe that they will be close again. The foundation is strong IMO.

The big difference being when compared to the average person, is that theirs is heavily scrutinized, discussed and is considered to be an opportunity to make money.

 

[Betsypaige]

Agreed especially with the bolded part of your post. This is a relationship that is decades old and like so many around the globe, will have its high and low points. They've been close before and I believe that they will be close again. The foundation is strong IMO.

The big difference being when compared to the average person, is that theirs is heavily scrutinized, discussed and is considered to be an opportunity to make money.

Their relationship is being analyzed to death instead of it just being allowed to breathe..... I get that there is a real sadness because we remember W and H being so close, those two poor little boys who lost their mummy, but they are adults now. They are adults who have different wants and needs, who have different POVs......and that's a good thing, IMO; they aren't the same people, they were raised to be their own men. The reason why there is such pain and anger between William and Harry is because there is a great deal of love. I don't know how this will all play out, but I refuse to give up on them becoming close again. This book is just much ado about nothing.

 

[Marengo]

Closed due to posters ignoring mod. request to discuss the book of Robert Lacey in this thread about the book of Robert Lacey.

Please contact me by personal message if there is new information or other things about this book that needs to be posted in this thread so the thread can be re-opened for that purpose.

New books about the Duke and Duchess of Sussex can be discussed here.

 

[Duchess_Watcher]

https://www.cosmopolitan.com/entert...tion-palace-announcement-meghan-markle-labor/

lol Prince William really does not like Meghan Markle huh?

https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrit...es-spencer-for-help-with-harry-meghan-markle/

“William worried that his brother was moving too fast in his courtship – and he did not shrink from saying as much when Harry started talking about getting hitched to Meghan quite soon,” the book claims, noting that Harry, now 36, would push back whenever his brother would tell him that the relationship seemed to be moving too quickly.

Harry then got extremely upset when William sought out help from Princess Diana‘s brother, the boys’ uncle Charles Spencer.

 

[Betsypaige]

https://www.cosmopolitan.com/entert...tion-palace-announcement-meghan-markle-labor/

lol Prince William really does not like Meghan Markle huh?

https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrit...es-spencer-for-help-with-harry-meghan-markle/

“William worried that his brother was moving too fast in his courtship – and he did not shrink from saying as much when Harry started talking about getting hitched to Meghan quite soon,” the book claims, noting that Harry, now 36, would push back whenever his brother would tell him that the relationship seemed to be moving too quickly.

Harry then got extremely upset when William sought out help from Princess Diana‘s brother, the boys’ uncle Charles Spencer.

I don't see how William expressing brotherly concerns means he doesn't like Meghan...

**I might have read the Cosmo article, but the "stay out of womens' business" turned me off. William has every right to share his feelings about his brother's relationship -so maybe this magazine should stay out of WILLIAM's business......I don't read Cosmo anyway, but I'll never read it or any blurb from it, ever again.

 

[Duchess_Watcher]

I don't see how William expressing brotherly concerns means he doesn't like Meghan...

**I might have read the Cosmo article, but the "stay out of womens' business" turned me off. William has every right to share his feelings about his brother's relationship -so maybe this magazine should stay out of WILLIAM's business......I don't read Cosmo anyway, but I'll never read it or any blurb from it, ever again.

This is my honest opinion: He thought Harry was moving too fast with her. William & Kate had over a decade history. Maybe he thought with her being married previously that he should slow down. But just being honest, William should know not everyone is involved 10 years. Sometimes people meet in 6 months and get married 6 months later. Meghan is clearly older, Harry knew he needed an heir and he figured she was the one. It looks bad because some believe they William opposes her because of her race. But if he dated her as long as he dated Chelsy David I don't think William says anything. They may think Meghan is a user. Kate seemingly ignored Meghan and didn't seem to want a friendship with Meghan.

 

[Curryong]

Harry and Chelsy were in their late teens/early to mid twenties when they dated for about seven years on and off. It's very different when you're in your thirties.
And in my opinion siblings have to choose their words very carefully when offering opinions about someone their brother or sister is head over heels in love with, especially if they themselves don't know the person very well. Otherwise there can well be a breach between them, and their words are often never forgotten.

 

[Heavs]

I completely agree that anyone telling a close friend or sibling who is in the first throes of love to maybe slow down even a bit is unlikely to actually accomplish that and you have to be careful how you phrase things.

That article is basically a rehash of things that were reported in late 2018/2019 and then "confirmed" by Scobie, who noted Harry was hyper aware for any even slight anti Meghan sentiment.

I don't think anyone was expecting Harry and Meghan to wait ten years, or even five years for obvious reasons. Although Harry did not *need* and heir, apart from his own understandable desire to have kids. But there's a difference between that and basically agreeing to get married before they'd even lived on the same continent before or perhaps really got used to Britain and the role of the BRF as we now see. Just look at how many life changing things have happened to them since they met - in quick succession and that's without the press and becoming globally famous.

It's ironic that all these articles are "William should have butted out of Harry's business!" well then maybe private conversations shouldn't have been leaked to the press and everyone should stop speculating on William's private headspace and motivations with his own brother.

 

[sm1939]

It's ironic that all these articles are "William should have butted out of Harry's business!" well then maybe private conversations shouldn't have been leaked to the press and everyone should stop speculating on William's private headspace and motivations with his own brother.[/QUOTE]


I agree with you , it was a private conversation, and Im sure William didn't mean to come of as being mean about any one ! he was just being a caring brother ! its not going to be a normal like for any one so he was just making sure, also I wish the Press , magazine would stop Stirring and move on from family disagreements.

 

[Betsypaige]

This is my honest opinion: He thought Harry was moving too fast with her. William & Kate had over a decade history. Maybe he thought with her being married previously that he should slow down. But just being honest, William should know not everyone is involved 10 years. Sometimes people meet in 6 months and get married 6 months later. Meghan is clearly older, Harry knew he needed an heir and he figured she was the one. It looks bad because some believe they William opposes her because of her race. But if he dated her as long as he dated Chelsy David I don't think William says anything. They may think Meghan is a user. Kate seemingly ignored Meghan and didn't seem to want a friendship with Meghan.

I still don’t have any issues with William expressing his concerns to Harry ...I do have a problem with Harry’s reaction. I also don’t have any issue with Kate, who I don’t think did anything wrong.

 

[QueenMathilde]

I think we can leave William and Kate alone. They didn't kick Harry and Meghan out of the royal family. According to Harry it was his decision to leave. They left of their own free will.

 

[maria-olivia]

All these are speculations. Nobody knows that happens and it makes the Medias Rich.

 

[Denville]

I think we can leave William and Kate alone. They didn't kick Harry and Meghan out of the royal family. According to Harry it was his decision from before he met Meghan to leave eventually. They left of their own free will.

Where did Harry ssay he had intended to leave eventaully? If that was the case why did he accept the title and jobs from the queen?

 

[muriel]

Harry and Chelsy were in their late teens/early to mid twenties when they dated for about seven years on and off. It's very different when you're in your thirties.
And in my opinion siblings have to choose their words very carefully when offering opinions about someone their brother or sister is head over heels in love with, especially if they themselves don't know the person very well. Otherwise there can well be a breach between them, and their words are often never forgotten.

I agree with you, siblings need to be careful when voicing an opinion on a potential partner for their sibling. But boy, was William right in this case!

 

[Denville]

I agree with you, siblings need to be careful when voicing an opinion on a potential partner for their sibling. But boy, was William right in this case!

I agree... I feel that a lot of people must have been uneasy, but perhaps noone said anything at all but William. however having siad that I doubt if it was ever going to do any good...

 

[Curryong]

I agree with you, siblings need to be careful when voicing an opinion on a potential partner for their sibling. But boy, was William right in this case!

The couple are happy together. They have been married for two and a half years, known each other for four and a half. If the media had one hint of any disharmony between them in the past or now, they would have been on to it in a minute.

Harry and Meghan are contented together with the child and new home and I don't believe they regret marrying when they did at all. So if William thought that Meghan was some kind of user and gold digger out for Harry's money, he couldn't have been more wrong.

 

[ACO]

I still don’t have any issues with William expressing his concerns to Harry ...I do have a problem with Harry’s reaction. I also don’t have any issue with Kate, who I don’t think did anything wrong.

It also depends on how you say it. Let’s be real here... these brothers know each other very well. Harry likely knew *exactly* what William meant in whatever he said. I don’t think the brothers have been close in years but put up a nice PR front as one would expect. And frankly I doubt those close to them are really surprised they are alienated from each other.

IMHO they all got what they wanted — the Sussexes are gone. Everyone has moved on.

On the Times 100 Talk? I enjoyed the conversations. Harry and Meghan have never implied they were experts. In fact they constantly talk of having spoken to people who have expertise in various subjects. They clearly been researching and building networks for the past year and will continue to do so.

Nice to see Archewell is up. I would guess the launch is not far away.

 

[Betsypaige]

It also depends on how you say it. Let’s be real here... these brothers know each other very well. Harry likely knew *exactly* what William meant in whatever he said. I don’t think the brothers have been close in years but put up a nice PR front as one would expect. And frankly I doubt those close to them are really surprised they are alienated from each other.

IMHO they all got what they wanted — the Sussexes are gone. Everyone has moved on.

On the Times 100 Talk? I enjoyed the conversations. Harry and Meghan have never implied they were experts. In fact they constantly talk of having spoken to people who have expertise in various subjects. They clearly been researching and building networks for the past year and will continue to do so.

Nice to see Archewell is up. I would guess the launch is not far away.

You can believe what you will, but there is no proof that W had any ulterior motive beyond brotherly concern in suggesting to his brother that he was moving too quickly with M. The fact that Harry freaked out is no surprise considering he only ever wants to be told “yes”...

As for everyone getting what they wanted, I guess that’s true if “everyone” is defined only by Harry and Meghan. I don’t think anyone wanted those two gone except themselves

 

[ACO]

There is no proof either way. We are all guessing based on third hand info.

 

[Betsypaige]

There is no proof either way. We are all guessing based on third hand info.

In real life, if Person A is going to accuse Person B of something or even just believe something negative about that Person B, the burden of proof is on Person A. That’s how I see this situation with W and H. In the absence of evidence that W had ulterior, negative motives in expressing his concern to H, I’m assuming goodwill on the former’s part. There wouldn’t ever be any evidence to prove William was acting out of concern - how can there be? There would only be evidence if he were acting out of malicious self-interest or other unpleasant tendencies...and there is none.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I strongly disagree that we are both guessing.

 

[ACO]

Of course we are both guessing.

We don’t really know these brothers but we all know family dynamics. So when I say that if Harry took offense to something his brother allegedly said, then it likely was with reason. Again they were in the alleged conversation, not us.

We all have our biases but that doesn’t change the fact we have zero clue what happened other than the fact the brothers clearly aren’t on good terms and the Sussexes left. That’s really it. The rest is just whatever.

 

[evolvingdoors]

In real life, if Person A is going to accuse Person B of something or even just believe something negative about that Person B, the burden of proof is on Person A. That’s how I see this situation with W and H. In the absence of evidence that W had ulterior, negative motives in expressing his concern to H, I’m assuming goodwill on the former’s part. There wouldn’t ever be any evidence to prove William was acting out of concern - how can there be? There would only be evidence if he were acting out of malicious self-interest or other unpleasant tendencies...and there is none.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I strongly disagree that we are both guessing.

I think it is simply logical to assume William had no malice in his actions, but only concern, by looking into the brothers history. Honestly I have never seen a single time where William was ill treating Harry. There has never been smoke to suggest any different!
I find it quite delusional to suggest otherwise. (sorry for the harsh word, but I can't believe people are seriously thinking William had nothing but loving intentions when asking Harry to maybe take things down a bit slower with a woman Harry barely knew)

Any loving sibling would rightfully be concerned about their sibling and raise the question of whether they are sure about making a specific major life change/decision especially if there is worry that this decision is a bad life direction the sibling would end up regarding (I say this as someone who was in Harry's place a decade ago, and while I don't totally regret the choice I made, I do wish I had made some decisions differently and maybe listened to my older sister advice. In most cases the person who knows you best is your sibling, especially if they are older than you!)

 

[Osipi]

Perhaps there is one good advantage to all the public interest in the "feud" between the brothers. At least with the exit to the US and starting their new private life to achieve things the way the want to, Harry and Meghan will never be accused of doing a "Sarah" and be selling access to William.

 

[REAL COUNTESS]

Give it time. No one knows what the future has in store?

 

[Duchess_Watcher]

It's always been obvious there was a rift. Their relationship looks strained by just them standing next to each other. I think William meant it from a good place when he was giving him a warning but Harry is hot headed and took it the wrong way. I think that was one of the decisions they left is because Harry probably told Meghan what William said and it made things awkward.

 

[UglyAmerican]

https://www.cosmopolitan.com/entert...tion-palace-announcement-meghan-markle-labor/

lol Prince William really does not like Meghan Markle huh?

I don't understand the tone of this article. Harry and Meghan could simply have delayed the news and announced "We have a baby!" after they'd returned home, but according to the article, that's not what they did. Instead, after they'd returned home, they announced that Meghan had gone into labor but not that the baby had been born. That's dishonest and, frankly, kind of nuts. William and Kate had already had three children in the same media spotlight, so it's just crazy to say he didn't know what it was like. William is known for having always been very protective of his and Kate's privacy, but I don't think he's ever crossed the line into outright lying to the media about whether a huge newsworthy event has taken place or not.

The complaints about William and Kate waiting a week to visit and not bringing are just petty. If they'd brought all three of their own kids, someone would have complained about them being insensitive by inflicting the noise and chaos of three young children on Meghan while she was recovering. If Kate had spent the visit minding her own children rather than cooing over the baby, they'd be complaining that Kate wasn't interested in Archie. If they'd brought a nanny to mind the kids while both parents visited with Meghan and Archie, they'd have complained about Meghan being expected to visit with the staff rather than just family.