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  #201  
Old 10-08-2020, 05:33 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poppy7 View Post
He is selling a book for money. No more. No less.
As Iíve said before...so, IMO, heís no different than Scobie/Durand or any other Royals trash reporter. He has this wonderful reputation, which has been earned, but as far as Iím concerned, heís thrown that all away.
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  #202  
Old 10-08-2020, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
As I’ve said before...so, IMO, he’s no different than Scobie/Durand or any other Royals trash reporter. He has this wonderful reputation, which has been earned, but as far as I’m concerned, he’s thrown that all away.
Which is a real shame that he has chosen this route of rehashing old stories about the Wales family's history and what has reportedly happened between the brothers.
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  #203  
Old 10-08-2020, 05:37 PM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
As Iíve said before...so, IMO, heís no different than Scobie/Durand or any other Royals trash reporter. He has this wonderful reputation, which has been earned, but as far as Iím concerned, heís thrown that all away.
royal reportage isn't considered all that high end a job, and most royals dont get a serious writer as biographer till they get older or have a long career to write about...
  #204  
Old 10-08-2020, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
I was not aware that Charles, Harry and/or William have ever discussed what transpired among the three of them the night Diana died. I think Harry has stated that he understood that it was a difficult for Charles to tell them.

Both Charles and Diana were imperfect parents (I don't claim perfection either). Diana leaned too much on William during the divorce and was too public in her complaints about their father. Charles was too worried that they wouldn't like him if he provided unpopular guidance when they were in their teens.

For the most part, both men are doing well. William has a beautiful family, he works hard and wants to help others. People may not like the path Harry has taken but, by all accounts, he is not mean spirited or abusive, he is a devoted family man, and he is also interested in helping others. He's not perfect, none of us are.

I think it is hard to judge the true state of their relationship given the current crisis. None of us knows whether Harry and Meghan would have spent time in the UK - or were planning to go over for Christmas. I am hoping that the undeniable rift has healed and that the brothers and their families develop a stronger loving relationship.
I agree with this. I think itís a credit to Charles and Diana, flaws and all (we all have them), that William and Harry have turned out to be who they are. For all my complaints about Harry, I agree - heís not a mean person, at all. My take on him all along has been that heís been behaving badly, not that heís a bad person.

From what Iíve read, the brothers are talking, have been ever since Charles was sick. They may not be close, but itís a start. Iíve always believed that itís way too early to give up on them reconciling ...I hope they do.
  #205  
Old 10-08-2020, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Do you really think the rift's likely to heal, hte more Harry moves away from what the RF would considier normal royal life? William clearly felt in March that Harry and Meg were letting him down, and he was not too happy.. I dotn think anything's happened in the past few months to make him soften on that...
It was obvious that they were in a bad place in March but people do resolve their differences. I live away from most of my family and my sisters and I sometimes disagree. But we cool off, we reflect on our own mistakes or the other person apologizes.

Perhaps William will never really understand why Harry made the decisions he has, but it is also possible that William understands better than anyone else. I think the true state of the relationship will be more apparent after travel resumes. I doubt things will be perfect, I don't think their relationship was ever perfect but, if they want to, I think they can get back to being on good terms.
  #206  
Old 10-08-2020, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Do you really think the rift's likely to heal, hte more Harry moves away from what the RF would considier normal royal life? William clearly felt in March that Harry and Meg were letting him down, and he was not too happy.. I dotn think anything's happened in the past few months to make him soften on that...
As sensible adults, "normal royal life" is the family business and "work" that is totally separated in their minds from "normal family life". Like a lot of us, the way the Sussexes left had a lot to be desired in their method and of course their loss to the "Firm" is a disappointment. However, I don't see it remaining a family feud for the rest of their lives.

The "Firm" will adapt to the loss and William and Harry will always be brothers.
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  #207  
Old 10-08-2020, 05:51 PM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
As sensible adults, "normal royal life" is the family business and "work" that is totally separated in their minds from "normal family life". Like a lot of us, the way the Sussexes left had a lot to be desired in their method and of course their loss to the "Firm" is a disappointment. However, I don't see it remaining a family feud for the rest of their lives.

The "Firm" will adapt to the loss and William and Harry will always be brothers.
They'll adapt as they have no choice.. and I dont suppose the 2 will be on bad terms for the rest of their life.. but IMO William was really annoyed by Harry's or Meg's behaviour, he must have been to the point of being cool to him in public.. and in the past months, Will has been trying to fly the flag for the RF here in very bizarre circumstances, and keep things going... and seeing his father ill and his grandmother now stuck in isolation for a long time...while Harry seems to be following Meghan into US politics..so no I dont think that things are likely to improve between them just yet...
  #208  
Old 10-08-2020, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLLK View Post
Which is a real shame that he has chosen this route of rehashing old stories about the Wales family's history and what has reportedly happened between the brothers.
I think Lacey believed he was revealing new information - or at least more detailed information, from different sources. It turns out that itís the same old, same old, except heís offering up psychobabble to make this rift an ďOMG, this is the same as the Abdication crisis; the BRF is a mess, and if W and H donít sort this out, the monarchy is in troubleĒ. Itís laughable. No reputable historian would take him seriously after this.
  #209  
Old 10-08-2020, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
They'll adapt as they have no choice.. and I dont suppose the 2 will be on bad terms for the rest of their life.. but IMO William was really annoyed by Harry's or Meg's behaviour, he must have been to the point of being cool to him in public.. and in the past months, Will has been trying to fly the flag for the RF here in very bizarre circumstances, and keep things going... and seeing his father ill and his grandmother now stuck in isolation for a long time...while Harry seems to be following Meghan into US politics..so no I dont think that things are likely to improve between them just yet...
I agree,something took place or was said just prior to the commonwealth service that angered both william and kate. They did not have the time or the opportunity to put on the public face whatever happened it was still raw. Harry and Meghan on the other hand were initially showing a face for public consumption although by the end Harry's face was like thunder.
Time is a healer but I remember being really shocked watching the tv that day because the royals usually do public faces very well indeed.
  #210  
Old 10-08-2020, 06:08 PM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallo girl View Post
I agree,something took place or was said just prior to the commonwealth service that angered both william and kate. They did not have the time or the opportunity to put on the public face whatever happened it was still raw. Harry and Meghan on the other hand were initially showing a face for public consumption although by the end Harry's face was like thunder.
Time is a healer but I remember being really shocked watching the tv that day because the royals usually do public faces very well indeed.
As I recall Harry didn't look too cheery either, while Meghan was smiling away.. gamely. I expect theylll get over it eventually but right now, no...
  #211  
Old 10-08-2020, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
I was not aware that Charles, Harry and/or William have ever discussed what transpired among the three of them the night Diana died. I think Harry has stated that he understood that it was a difficult for Charles to tell them.

Both Charles and Diana were imperfect parents (I don't claim perfection either). Diana leaned too much on William during the divorce and was too public in her complaints about their father. Charles was too worried that they wouldn't like him if he provided unpopular guidance when they were in their teens.

For the most part, both men are doing well. William has a beautiful family, he works hard and wants to help others. People may not like the path Harry has taken but, by all accounts, he is not mean spirited or abusive, he is a devoted family man, and he is also interested in helping others. He's not perfect, none of us are.

As for Harry he and Meghan wanted a different way of life for a variety of reasons. He also is not the first one in the family to work on his own business. His Uncle Edward ran his own production company.

I think it is hard to judge the true state of their relationship given the current crisis. None of us knows whether Harry and Meghan would have spent time in the UK - or were planning to go over for Christmas. I am hoping that the undeniable rift has healed and that the brothers and their families develop a stronger loving relationship.
To be fair,Charles admitted to his biographer he preferred another woman to his sons' mother and never loved her. And he told the world that he was involved with Camilla, forcing the PB divorce. So he contributed "drama" as well.That certainly would be not a good thing for his sons. And I think Diana's "leaning" on William has been overstated. Diana to be fair said that she told her sons that she "Papa" love each other but cannot live together anymore During her last year she and charles appeared cordial when they accompanied william to his confirmation. they even posed for pictures together with William and Harry. Diana did lean more on her friends like rosa Monckton and her true friends were there for her. she could certainly not talk to young william the same way she would talk to her friends. william was also away at school much of the time.
  #212  
Old 10-08-2020, 10:11 PM
Heir Apparent
 
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Location: Torrance, United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
I was not aware that Charles, Harry and/or William have ever discussed what transpired among the three of them the night Diana died. I think Harry has stated that he understood that it was a difficult for Charles to tell them.

Both Charles and Diana were imperfect parents (I don't claim perfection either). Diana leaned too much on William during the divorce and was too public in her complaints about their father. Charles was too worried that they wouldn't like him if he provided unpopular guidance when they were in their teens.

For the most part, both men are doing well. William has a beautiful family, he works hard and wants to help others. People may not like the path Harry has taken but, by all accounts, he is not mean spirited or abusive, he is a devoted family man, and he is also interested in helping others. He's not perfect, none of us are.

I think it is hard to judge the true state of their relationship given the current crisis. None of us knows whether Harry and Meghan would have spent time in the UK - or were planning to go over for Christmas. I am hoping that the undeniable rift has healed and that the brothers and their families develop a stronger loving relationship.



An excellent summary and I hope that the brothers' relationship will improve over time and some distance..
  #213  
Old 10-09-2020, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
I usually agree with you, but we couldnít be farther apart on this one. Charles had a brutal, absolutely miserable time there - and frankly Iím being mild. I hardly think he got positive guidance at Gordonstoun. Thereís no way Charles would ever have sent Harry there. I also think he probably wanted to try and keep the brothers together if possible -which I understand.

On the other hand, it seemed to fit Philip, Charles two brothers, and at least one nephew (didn't Peter went there?).



Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
just because Charles didn't like it doesn't mean it might not have been good for Harry. Eton wasn't the right place for him.. he wasn't academic, he struggled.. and Gordonstoun is not nearly so tough as it was in C's day. Charles didn't seem to be able to rein Harry in, during his teenager years and possibly school might have given him structure and discipline. He claimed that he liked the army... and I think it was good for him.. but possibly learning self discipline at school would have been even better


Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
If he'd gone to Gordonstoun we might be here discussing how Harry feels separate from his family because he was sent to a school up in the Highlands whilst William was at a school much closer to Windsor/London, even Highgrove.

Aren't there stories that William spent a lot of time in Harry's room comforting when he was finding it hard to cope with everything, especially Diana? I can't imagine it would have been looked on as a good thing to separate them at the time either by the family, the press and public (even though the last two obviously don't get a say).

Whilst Eton and Gordonstoun are worlds apart it's not like it doesn't have a 7 day a week structure and plenty of opportunity for sports and a Cadet Force for those considering the Armed Services or who would benefit from discipline. It's not like it's Beadales or another very "luvvie" relaxed school. I mean it's harder to get into trouble in London on Short Leave in the Highlands but I imagine there are still ways the students can rebel with alcohol and weed etc if that's their intent.

Also whilst Harry might benefit from structure he also left the army when it came to the "boring" parts which was part of the rules and has currently chosen a very unstructured life, apparently "the rules and regulations" were part of the problem.
That's why I said "Gordonstoun style" not necessarily the school itself, I am sure there are many other similarly like schools in the Windsor area, so Harry could have benefited from an education better suited to who he is and still remain close to the family.

Harry left the army because he was at a stage where he had to leave field duty and move to a desk job, not because of the rules.



I do sometimes wonder, and this is of course not the done thing for late 20th and 21st century, if Harry would have done better being home schooled with a few tutors in the more old school way, focusing on fighting arts, nature exploration and so on. There are new studies coming out on how beneficial home schooling can be, especially for kids who do not fit the mold in a sense.
but this is neither here nor there.
  #214  
Old 10-09-2020, 09:26 AM
Majesty
 
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Kids are different and a school like Gordonstoun mgiht have suited Harry better but I agree, he's not academic and maybe would not have enjoyed any school all that much. But the problem with the army was that I think the structured life with a lot of activity suited him.. he didn't like the dullness fo a desk job and he walked out... and now he's out of the army has no structure and I suspect he's not really sure now waht to do with himself.
  #215  
Old 10-11-2020, 09:43 AM
Majesty
 
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A few days before publication of his book, Robert Lacey reveals that he has been getting hate mail from William fans and he is not optimistic about William and Harry's relationship.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/wor...3e05d1c20dfced
  #216  
Old 10-11-2020, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
I do sometimes wonder, and this is of course not the done thing for late 20th and 21st century, if Harry would have done better being home schooled with a few tutors in the more old school way, focusing on fighting arts, nature exploration and so on. There are new studies coming out on how beneficial home schooling can be, especially for kids who do not fit the mold in a sense.
but this is neither here nor there.

An interesting suggestion evolvingdoors and honestly he'd likely naturally gravitated to a curriculum that was based upon these subjects. I'd tweek it a bit by incorporating a homeschooling network in which groups of students do meet up so that they can work together as a team which offers the necessary social interaction that children and teens do need IMVHO.
  #217  
Old 10-11-2020, 11:11 AM
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I don't think william was exactly flawless in this situation. I think he does share some responsibility for it. Just looking at them as a family, it is generally a bad idea to offer unsolicited advice about a sibling's personal life.Even though Harry did not "listen" supposedly, then William should have been gracious about it. He is not an older brother by many years and not the Head of the Family. If he had been more accepting, I don't think Harry and Meghan would have left. William should try to "soften" and make compromises and be diplomatic. He was not the one who had to approve the marriage. Her Majesty had to. William's glaring at Harry during the service did not help matters any. I think William could have said more than just telling Harry to wait, he might have said not so nice things about Meghan and made judgments about her. I think the closeness of the brother has been exaggerated. It is normal for siblings to move on and set up their own households and not constantly be in each other's company. Harry was very gracious to Kate when she came into the family. Two people make a feud and both have to take their share of the blame. So many average families have had this situation, where a sibling does not approve of a brother or sister's choice of spouse. It can turn out that the marriage is happy but the sibling alienated them both and has caused a rift that may be permanent. So the sibling is not invited to christenings, birthdays and so on. It can happen in any family and often does.
  #218  
Old 10-11-2020, 12:03 PM
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Well, I canít read the Australian article as Iím not a subscriber...

Iím sorry Lacey is getting hate mail; I myself loathe the kind of book heís written, but sending hate mail is out of bounds. Criticizing is fine, but thatís it.

That said, Iíve had enough with Lacey making declarative statements that a William and Harryís relationship is permanently ruined/damaged. He has no idea if thatís true, he just wants to sell books
  #219  
Old 10-11-2020, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
Well, I canít read the Australian article as Iím not a subscriber...

Iím sorry Lacey is getting hate mail; I myself loathe the kind of book heís written, but sending hate mail is out of bounds. Criticizing is fine, but thatís it.

That said, Iíve had enough with Lacey making declarative statements that a William and Harryís relationship is permanently ruined/damaged. He has no idea if thatís true, he just wants to sell books
Good point. Unfortunately for both of the brothers, Mr. Lacey has had to resort to these types of statements to generate sales.


I also agree that Mr. Lacey should not be receiving hate mail from anyone. If you don't care for the book, don't read it or purchase it.
  #220  
Old 10-11-2020, 12:49 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
Well, I canít read the Australian article as Iím not a subscriber...

Iím sorry Lacey is getting hate mail; I myself loathe the kind of book heís written, but sending hate mail is out of bounds. Criticizing is fine, but thatís it.

That said, Iíve had enough with Lacey making declarative statements that a William and Harryís relationship is permanently ruined/damaged. He has no idea if thatís true, he just wants to sell books
Presumably he has an opinion based on resesarch. He will have interviewed people who know the brothers...
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