"1015 København K" by Trine Villemann (2007)

[Villemann]

I understand what you mean now. I guess Mary faces that conflict between maintaining "control" and allowing her natural personality to shine. It's a balancing act, although I would imagine that as she has grown into the position of Crown Princess she has loosened up somewhat. Are you saying that you think she hasn't loosened up enough in public and retains too much reserve?

To me CP Mary looks like a deer caught in the royal headlights! Terrifed and trying to control it, by being controlling - if you know what I mean. I wish someone would advice her to just be herself. She is good enough. We like her. We would just like to get the real Mary back, the one Frederik fell in love with, the one he needs and the one - in MY opinion - the monarchy craves! I am convinced that the real Mary, with her experience, easily can work out that our royal house needs to be in tune with the times and that the way to do that is to work hard with causes that matter to us today and tomorrow!

And do you know for a fact that she does not do anything more than just show up? If as you say it's all about the clothing, and that's the media doing the portraying, how are we to know that she doesn't do anything more? I rather suspect that she does. She certainly did with the Mary Foundation, and the Alana and Madeleine foundation.

What's more, more background effort goes into these events than you might imagine. It takes effort and time to learn about the different problems facing each patronage. It takes time to prepare a speech, and research what needs to be said, and it takes time to interact with the various people and listen to their needs.

So unless you know for a FACT that she does nothing more than just show up, then I think that you are making assumptions that can not be supported by a scratch of the surface.

Do you know for a FACT that she does more than just show up and lookg god?Why is it , that when you ask the palace to provide a real working schedule for CP Frederik and Mary, that they - at least so far - have refused to do it? Because there is not that much to show, perhaps? I am not saying, she is not working - she is certainly working much more than her husband - but on so many occasions Mary's professional skills have failed her or she has refused to employ them. Remember she used to work in PR? She should know how to communicate, but she doesn't.The Mary Foundation is well intended, but again it is words more than action. I am very familiar with CP Mary's work in her foundation as I am researching it for my next book.
We discuss mary's clothing because she gives us nothing else to talk about!

Then by all means, prove that she doesn't.

I can not see content or substance in the work she does. How do I prove it? Wel, how do you prove that there is content in what CP Mary does!

Of course Obama hasn't changed anything! He isn't president of the United States .... yet!

Viv

He has been a senator for four years!

 

[Madame Royale]

I am very familiar with CP Mary's work in her foundation as I am researching it for my next book.

Must you?

No no, I'm being cheeky.

Why is it , that when you ask the palace to provide a real working schedule for CP Frederik and Mary, that they - at least so far - have refused to do it?

Have you yourself sought such information, or...?

 

[sunsh1n3]

It takes time to prepare a speech, and research what needs to be said, and it takes time to interact with the various people and listen to their needs.

I like Mary, don't get me wrong, but I highly doubt that she is preparing and researching her own speeches.

 

[Villemann]

Must you?

No no, I'm being cheeky.



Have you yourself sought such information, or...?

Don't worry, after my next book I will give the Danish monarchy a break! yes, I have requested that information myself. So far no success!

I like Mary, don't get me wrong, but I highly doubt that she is preparing and researching her own speeches.

Don't be sillyOf course, she doesn't! I know she likes to surf the internet - well, who deosn't? - but she has staff to deal with speeches and research. That is a FACT!

 

[Elspeth]

Don't worry, after my next book I will give the Danish monarchy a break! yes, I have requested that information myself. So far no success!

Mitts off the British monarchy while you're at it...

 

[Madame Royale]

I can not see content or substance in the work she does. How do I prove it? Wel, how do you prove that there is content in what CP Mary does!

It has seemed to me, that your often quick to dismiss answering, and instead, prefer to pose the same question back to those who ask you to provide evidence in support of the statements you make. Generally, that can be considered a sure sign that what you propose to be so, is actually baseless and presents little more than an attempt to highlight an opinion as fact when really, it's anything but.

I asked you, because it reads as though you believe your opinion to be right, and so, it is therefore entirely acceptable to request that you provide evidence in support of your statements...

 

[Odette]

Let me ask you all this. When did it become mandatory for Mary to have a "job"?
Since I do not know about it can anyone tell me if the same expectations were in place for CP Margrethe for example? From what I know Royalty used to be a class of individuals who showed up at certain events, kept their mouths shut, the paparazzi used to leave alone, the media was respecting and all the people were looking for was that they'd show up during parades and national disasters.........The rest of the times they'd move from winter palaces to summer palaces and enjoy their special status.
I am not trying to be rude or dismissive of anyone's views, I am just curious to know when did this all change and why?

 

[Madame Royale]

Don't worry, after my next book I will give the Danish monarchy a break! yes, I have requested that information myself. So far no success!

It may just be me, but in light of the situation, it's no surprise that the palace would be unwilling to provide you with any real information. I'm not being malicious, just logical...

Good luck with your future endeavours though.

 

[Villemann]

Hey, my question is as relevant as yours. I can not see why the burden of proof necessarily rests entirely on my shoulders. You show me the content and the substance if you happen to know, where one can find it! I can't see it! anywhere! Of course I believe my opinion to be accurate and correct. Isn't that the whole point of discussing, that you believe you are right or did I miss something here?
We are not writing a science paper. We are debatting whether or not CP Mary is doing her job to the best of her ability. You think, she is. I disagree, but you can't really prove such a subjective thing, can you? It all depends of what kind of lenses you are looking through, doesn't it?

 

[Empress]

but she has staff to deal with speeches and research. That is a FACT!

Unless you know from seeing her not just take the speeches from someone elses hand, or she's told you herself that she does not research her own speeches, then you can not call it a fact truthfully.

For example, Maxima does have assistants who help her research her speeches, but she often researches and writes them on her own.

Can you provide back up for what you call a fact that she does not write or research her own speeches?

 

[Villemann]

Let me ask you all this. When did it become mandatory for Mary to have a "job"?
Since I do not know about it can anyone tell me if the same expectations were in place for CP Margrethe for example? From what I know Royalty used to be a class of individuals who showed up at certain events, kept their mouths shut, the paparazzi used to leave alone, the media was respecting and all the people were looking for was that they'd show up during parades and national disasters.........The rest of the times they'd move from winter palaces to summer palaces and enjoy their special status.
I am not trying to be rude or dismissive of anyone's views, I am just curious to know when did this all change and why?

Because society has changed. 200 years ago it would not have mattered, that CP Frederik can hardly string two words together. Today it matters, because the media is the tool with which the royals communicate with their people.

It may just be me, but in light of the situation, it's no surprise that the palace would be unwilling to provide you with any real information. I'm not being malicious, just logical...

Good luck with your future endeavours though.

Thanks! I hope it is not because I am asking. That it would be a real sign of weakness on their part if they on purpose withheld information from me, that they are prepared to hand out to other media. The palace know I would find out anyway and it would make them look really bad!

 

[Villemann]

Mitts off the British monarchy while you're at it...

I would love to! I happen to think, though, that the Brits are doing a far better job than the Danes!

 

[Odette]

CP Frederick is a born royal. Why is it up to Mary to make him look good? Whatever happened to the handlers and the courtiers? Mary is still learning "the ropes" herself.
With regard to the speeches and being a tad involved in the past, (not with royalty of course) no one at her level is expected to know so much and write her own speeches. There are advisors who give them the essence of the matter they will discuss or ask questions about, and someone (or more) will draft the speech. Perhaps Mary or Maxima or whoever, like what they read and give the speech intact or perhaps they add or take something out.

 

[Madame Royale]

Isn't that the whole point of discussing, that you believe you are right or did I miss something here?

I think clearly you must have. For debating isn't just about steadfast conviction, rather, is about maintaining an open mind to the possibility that you may not be correct. Of course, no one would anticpate you to concede to the possibility you may not be right, afterall, it wouldn't look terribly good for an author to admit perhaps all is not how they thought it to be. Wouldn't do much for book sales now would it...

I'm sure that my opinion is not always accurate, and will gladely admit so if given evidence enough to prove it.

I have read your book (though I did not purchase it) and while I wasn't partciularly taken by it's contents, I can acknowledge that there are those who believe more could be done, and more should be done. I understand this is your opinion and your of course very welcome to share it. It doesn't however, make that opinion accurate because it's been bound and packed on a shelf. Whether or not you (or anyone) wish to accept that is neither here nor there. It's the way it is.

 

[sneeuwklokje]

Mitts off the British monarchy while you're at it...

Here is something else to research: 2500 GK Den Haag. (the Dutch RF).

 

[Jo of Palatine]

I find I simply don't like people who tell others to do more. It's such a nasty concept, forcing others to defend themselves and especially when the one told to do more is someone who cannot defend herself. Bad style, that, IMHO.

 

[tan_berry]

CP Mary has the body of a Barbie after two pregnancies. That is wonderful, ¡good for her! CP Mary dresses like a princess, otherwise she would be criticized, too, and they would say the Aussie can not learn to dress and behave like a real princess. That is the worst thing about public life, everything will be criticized for different persons with different values. And she has good taste to choose her clothes. This couple is adjusting to the normal changes in a marriage in full limelight. The thing with more substance she needs to do now is to raise her children, so that they become happy and normal people while adjusting they too to limelight. Small children require a lot of real time, not only quality time.

I think Denmark is a constitutional monarchy, with elections and prime ministers, etc., and I have read CP Frederik is very well prepared to be head of state someday. But he is a young man, too, adapting himself to the limitations in a marriage, such a conflicted institution. I like their personalities and I would be very proud of them if I were danish. They are liked all around the world, and because of Mary and the kids, now a symbol of Denmark, too, the country is in many headlines.

 

[ZaJa]

And do you know for a fact that she does not do anything more than just show up? If as you say it's all about the clothing, and that's the media doing the portraying, how are we to know that she doesn't do anything more? I rather suspect that she does. She certainly did with the Mary Foundation, and the Alana and Madeleine foundation.

What's more, more background effort goes into these events than you might imagine. It takes effort and time to learn about the different problems facing each patronage. It takes time to prepare a speech, and research what needs to be said, and it takes time to interact with the various people and listen to their needs.

So unless you know for a FACT that she does nothing more than just show up, then I think that you are making assumptions that can not be supported by a scratch of the surface.

Thank you for writing this. You've hit on what I would say in response to the authors comment.

I'm an American and I have no idea what it is like to have royalty or what they're expected to do or not do. What I've seen from Mary is just a nice, well mannered, and yes well dressed person. She seems genuine about what she is doing and wants to help causes and people in the best possible way. I'm not sure what more is expected of her. Is she supposed to get a PhD. in economics and change her adopted homeland? I'm really confused as to what more she's supposed to be doing.

I'd like to read this book now that it's in English but from what I have read on this thread my impression of it isn't good. No offense.

 

[Marengo]

I find it a bit odd that the main issue of this thread turned out to be CPss Mary. From the extract/reviews I have read it seems the only critisism the author has on her is that she should loosen up. The opinion about the other royals is much more controversial and serious IMO, but somehow people here only get emotionally attached to this subject due to a minor remark about Mary. Personally I found the way that the late Queen Ingrid was portrayed more surprising (coniving against her brother-in-law in favor of her daughter). But also on Margrethe, Frederik, Henrik, Joachim and Alexandra the book seems much more critical (though very little people here seem to mind that).

 

[Gaia]

I think the author appearing in Australia has made it about Mary, right?

 

[Marengo]

I have no clue, but it seems logical that the australian media makes it all about Mary. Still, this is not the Australian media but an international royalty forum and the issue at hand is the book as a whole. To make such an enormous point/discussion about CPss Mary while the author almost doesn't critisize her seems a bit too much for my taste. Though others are free to disagree and focus on Mary as much as they want (as they undoubtably will continue to do).

Since I haven't read the book I wondered if there was anything about Princess Benedikte in it? Except that the book wonders why she has to have an appartment in Amalienborg.

 

[Odette]

I find it a bit odd that the main issue of this thread turned out to be CPss Mary. From the extract/reviews I have read it seems the only critisism the author has on her is that she should loosen up. The opinion about the other royals is much more controversial and serious IMO, but somehow people here only get emotionally attached to this subject due to a minor remark about Mary. Personally I found the way that the late Queen Ingrid was portrayed more surprising (coniving against her brother-in-law in favor of her daughter). But also on Margrethe, Frederik, Henrik, Joachim and Alexandra the book seems much more critical (though very little people here seem to mind that).

Marengo you are absolutely right. I have not read the book yet and plan to buy and read it. The discussion started because the English version (from what I gather) is CP Mary's struggles in changing herself, Frederick the monarchy etc. I am really anxious to read this book.

 

[Elspeth]

I've got a copy on order. I feel more comfortable talking about a book if I've read it or at least got it available to refer to when discussing it. As Marengo said, there seems to be a lot more to the book than just comments about Mary's role and whether she's fulfilling it effectively. I just read a biography of Mary which fairly clearly glossed over quite a lot of stuff going on with the royal family, and I found the lack of background material rather frustrating.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

What is it then, I want from CP Mary? To step away from her illusions of what a princess is like and put some content into what she does. Bring the monarchy forward - and her husband too, for that matter - by creating initiatives and stretching her tentacles into areas that are worthwhile, but perhaps not politically correct or "nice."

I think you have a point but I think it's too much too ask yet. Give Mary a break. Firstly, she is only married for four years and her main task has been so far to breed which she has completed successfully. Bringing up the kids remains a further task in the years to come. Secondly, compared to other CP's her role is what I would call very active in terms of showing presence etc. If you are missing content I'd say probably but she is neither superwoman nor Queen. The main stage still belongs and sho uldbelong to QM and only if Frederik becomes King it's up to Mary to step up on the basis of what she has done so far to the more substantial or serious or heavyweight topics - it's much too early to do so now, she's still learning, remember. I have no doubt that she has the potential to become an influential Queen but let's wait until she arrives at that stage. If she did already now what you are asking of her I can imagine all those posts and headlines accusing her of outshining QM or her own husband ... you can't please everybody!

 

[crisscross1]

Why is this is such a sore issue? Why do people get so upset, when I mention these facts? Is it not better that we deal with these problems? Is it not better that Frederik gets some help ? Mary is his nearest and dearest. Surely, she can do something!

I think it is in people's nature to stick up for the underdog when they see him being picked on for no really good reason. I think it is a little small minded of people to make comments such as 'We should deal with these problems', when Fred is who he is. No amount of dealing with his 'problems' is going to change how he handles life. Perhaps the Danes (I say Danes as a whole, but wonder how many actually do agree with the comments) would be better off accepting him and the way he is going to rule as King rather than become someone he isn't.
Mary is accused of being a 'Barbie' style princess in one post and in the next she is being expected to step up to the plate after a very short time and make changes to a Monarchy (and her nearest and dearest) that holds the title of being the oldest in the world . Come on, that's a bit much to ask of anyone. None of us really knows what goes on behind closed doors, Mary married Fred for who he is not for who she could change him into. A very admirable quality I think.

 

[Villemann]

I think you have a point but I think it's too much too ask yet. Give Mary a break. Firstly, she is only married for four years and her main task has been so far to breed which she has completed successfully. Bringing up the kids remains a further task in the years to come. Secondly, compared to other CP's her role is what I would call very active in terms of showing presence etc. If you are missing content I'd say probably but she is neither superwoman nor Queen. The main stage still belongs and sho uldbelong to QM and only if Frederik becomes King it's up to Mary to step up on the basis of what she has done so far to the more substantial or serious or heavyweight topics - it's much too early to do so now, she's still learning, remember. I have no doubt that she has the potential to become an influential Queen but let's wait until she arrives at that stage. If she did already now what you are asking of her I can imagine all those posts and headlines accusing her of outshining QM or her own husband ... you can't please everybody!

I agrre it is still early days and the Queen is still alive, so it difficult to get a foot in the door But mary can start taking some small steps towards reforming her husband and the monarchy. Let me give an example: In May Freerik turned 40 and had two partiens in less than a week. One at the royal yacht and one at Fredensborg. Basically the same guests attended both events. Was it really necessary to have TWO parties, especially at a time when the Danes and the rest of the world are experiencing financial trouble. Such a show of opulence is very unwise, in MY opinion. Why was that birthday not used as an occasion to do some good? Why did our CP not give something back by turning his big day into a charity event? The royals lead by example and this was a very bad one. Surely Mary understands that, but why doesn't she do something? Why does she not prevent her husband from showing us all such a bad example?

 

[Villemann]

I think it is in people's nature to stick up for the underdog when they see him being picked on for no really good reason. I think it is a little small minded of people to make comments such as 'We should deal with these problems', when Fred is who he is. No amount of dealing with his 'problems' is going to change how he handles life. Perhaps the Danes (I say Danes as a whole, but wonder how many actually do agree with the comments) would be better off accepting him and the way he is going to rule as King rather than become someone he isn't.
Mary is accused of being a 'Barbie' style princess in one post and in the next she is being expected to step up to the plate after a very short time and make changes to a Monarchy (and her nearest and dearest) that holds the title of being the oldest in the world . Come on, that's a bit much to ask of anyone. None of us really knows what goes on behind closed doors, Mary married Fred for who he is not for who she could change him into. A very admirable quality I think.

When Frederik recently gave an interview to Danish tv2, everybody could see and hear for themselves how nervous and uncomfortable he still is. We adore Frederik because he grew up before our very eyes and we all saw his struggles. But he is a grown up now. 40 years old. He is going to be the head of the most important "firm" in the country. He has to get some help in figuring out how to run that "firm." I know it is a lot to ask a woman, not born and bred as a princess, but there is in MY opinion no one closer to Frederik so sort him out. Let me just add that Amalienborg do now have a few sensible people, who realise that our CP could do with a helping hand and they are trying to make that happen.

 

[marmi]

...But mary can start taking some small steps towards reforming her husband and the monarchy. ...

Why should Mary 'reform' her husband? She loves the man he is - he is her husband not a project. Support him, give advice when asked, yes, but I do wonder why you say its her job to 'reform' him???

 

[crisscross1]

We adore Frederik because he grew up before our very eyes and we all saw his struggles.

I'm sure glad that you aren't cheering for my team. As a country who adores Fred because they have watched him grow before their very eyes, you are all very unforgiving. (I am sure that most Danes don't feel the same way, so I use the terms all, country and their loosely.) Surely you all love the man he has become, a caring father and husband. A man who supports his country, although he may have said in the past that he would prefer not to be King, he still knows that he has a duty to Denmark and there is no law that states a shy CP can't take over that role. Showing him more confidence would surely have a more positive effect than keep telling him he isn't going to do the job well. Yay, Villemann, way to go.

 

[ricarda]

Today, the Danish papers are reporting that Prince Joachim has filled in for Queen Margrethe on more than 30 occasions this past year. In comparison, CP Frederik has only filed in on 7 occasions. Now where was it, the Danes for the first time read that Prince Joachim is a disciplined and industrious member of the DRF and never afraid to pull his weight?

Well, then it might have escaped the "Danish papers" - which do you mean? - that Frederik was Regent on 62 days in 2007. It might also have escaped their attention how - apart from his trip to Mozambique - relatively empty Joachim's calendar was since the announcement of his engagement. 30 occasions where he stepped in for the queen, I wonder which were those occasions?

Get me right, I don't criticize Joachim. I think he has been treated quite unfairly by the media in the past. But I think you are over-praising his workload and at the same time belittling the one of his brother, for reasons whatsoever. I am watching the calendar of the DRF and it is quite clear that - after the Queen - Mary and Frederik are the ones with the most official events nowadays. You make it sound as if Joachim works more than his brother, when he actually does not.

Why is this is such a sore issue? Why do people get so upset, when I mention these facts?

I can't speak for all but I personally get sore when facts are distorted. IMO in most cases you are distorting facts (see e.g. your comment about the poll in BB in another thread or your claim to be the first to report positively about Joachim - no, others have done that before you).

Why was that birthday not used as an occasion to do some good? Why did our CP not give something back by turning his big day into a charity event?

I would guess it was because it was a birthday, not a charity event.
And why wasn't the birthday of Willem Alexander turned into a charity event? And why wasn't the birthday of the king of Sweden turned into a charity event? And why wasn't the birthday of the king and queen of Norway turned into a charity event? ...