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  #21  
Old 12-11-2020, 07:03 AM
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Wonderful news for that handsome and likeable couple !
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  #22  
Old 12-11-2020, 07:32 AM
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More happy news. Congratulations.
Spring 2012 will certainly be a happy season.
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  #23  
Old 12-11-2020, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by principessa View Post
This baby is the first new arrival in the swedish royal family since the title-decision. I wonder which protocol will happen when the birth of the third child of Carl Philip and Sofia is born. Will there be still a Te Deum? How will the names be announced? Will the christening take place without live coverage?
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
The baby will likely get the same treatment as his siblings and cousins did. With covid maybe smaller christening of course. Just born with the current title unlike his or her siblings.

Any pairing down of ceremony and possibly duchy will likely wait for the next generation.

According to the law (or at least the traditional interpretation of the law), the King is legally not empowered to bestow royal coats of arms on anyone other than the members of the Royal House, or to bestow the state orders (the Seraphim or Polar Star) on anyone other than members of the Royal House and non-Swedes.

Will the King simply violate the law to bestow a (Royal) Coat of Arms and the Order of the Seraphim? Or will the King, Parliament, or the courts reinterpret the law, as occurred recently in Belgium? Or will the King declare Prince Carl Philip's third child to be a member of the Royal House at birth, bestow the coat of arms and order, and then demote them?


Lag (1982:268) om Sveriges riksvapen Svensk författningssamling 1982:1982:268 - Riksdagen
Statschefen kan ge andra medlemmar av det kungliga huset tillåtelse att som personligt vapen bruka stora riksvapnet med de ändringar och tillägg som statschefen bestämmer.
Ordenskungörelse (1974:768) Svensk författningssamling 1974:1974:768 t.o.m. SFS 1995:1025 - Riksdagen
1 § Inom Kungl. Serafimerorden kan utmärkelser tilldelas statschefer och därmed jämställda personer samt medlemmar av det svenska konungahuset. Förordning (1995:1025).

2 § Inom Kungl. Nordstjärneorden kan utmärkelser tilldelas medlemmar av det svenska konungahuset samt utländska medborgare som har gjort personliga insatser för Sverige eller för svenskt intresse.

Med utländsk medborgare likställs statslös som är bosatt utomlands.
Förordning (1995:1025).
  #24  
Old 12-11-2020, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by principessa View Post
This baby is the first new arrival in the swedish royal family since the title-decision. I wonder which protocol will happen when the birth of the third child of Carl Philip and Sofia is born. Will there be still a Te Deum? How will the names be announced? Will the christening take place without live coverage?
This child will never carry the title of ”H.R.H” (only XX Prince/Princess of Sweden, Duke/Duchess of XX), never recive anything from the apanage, and will not be allowed to represent Sweden officially except when specifically asked by the monarch to do so...

The names will likely be announced in a similar way to how it was handled when his/her siblings was born... Maybe not a council with the government and only a smaller Te Deum... But it’s still a birth within the royal family that will attract a lot of interest from the general public... Regarding the christening being televised or not, is likely up to the parents. It’s not a rule written in stone, though i guess many here will be dissapointed if it’s not

The only big difference is likely that this child won’t recive the Order of the Seraphim upon birth, as it’s clearly stated in the swedish constitution that the only swedish citizens available for the state orders are members of the royal house, wich this child will not be..... However there is an ongoing bipartisan constitutional review in the Swedish Parliament regarding the state orders, to make them available for swedish citizens again. Nothing that will take effect already in 2021, but most likely it means that this child will be able to wear the state orders as an adult, just like his/her siblings and cousins.
  #25  
Old 12-11-2020, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Hans-Rickard View Post
This child will never carry the title of ”H.R.H” (only XX Prince/Princess of Sweden, Duke/Duchess of XX)
I think it's very unlikely that the child will carry the title "of Sweden" after their brothers had it revoked from them in 2019. The king's sisters who lost it by making unequal marriages likewise have not had it restored to them.

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Originally Posted by Hans-Rickard View Post
The only big difference is likely that this child won’t recive the Order of the Seraphim upon birth, as it’s clearly stated in the swedish constitution that the only swedish citizens available for the state orders are members of the royal house, wich this child will not be.....
From my reading, the law on royal coats of arms is just as "clear" as the law on orders (I quoted both in my post above) in denying them to non-members of the royal house. Neither law forms part of the constitution, as far as I can tell.
  #26  
Old 12-11-2020, 12:47 PM
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Hey, wonderful news, some good news after all at the end of this crazy year
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  #27  
Old 12-11-2020, 02:28 PM
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We have something to look forward to. This horrible year is soon over, thank god and new life comes into this world. I am over the moon for them. Congratulations to the family.
  #28  
Old 12-11-2020, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
I think it's very unlikely that the child will carry the title "of Sweden" after their brothers had it revoked from them in 2019. The king's sisters who lost it by making unequal marriages likewise have not had it restored to them.



From my reading, the law on royal coats of arms is just as "clear" as the law on orders (I quoted both in my post above) in denying them to non-members of the royal house. Neither law forms part of the constitution, as far as I can tell.
It is a misunderstanding that they had their titles removed. The only thing removed was their ”H.R.H-prefix” and thus their status as a Member of the Swedish Royal House. Their titles are

Alexander, Prince of Sweden, Duke of Södermanland.

Gabriel, Prince of Sweden, Duke of Dalarna.

In Sweden there is a difference between being a member of the Royal House (everyone carrying the prefix of H.M and H.R.H) and members of the Royal Family (wich also includes everyone without a prefix).

Regarding Coat of arms, every Knight (or if female Member) of the Royal Order of the Seraphim have their own personal coat of arms.

As Princess Christina, Desirée and Margaretha was made members of the Order of the Seraphim in 1952, they still have their own Seraphim coat of arms, hanging in the ”Halls of the Royal Orders” at the Royal Palace, together with every other living Knight/Member. Just like Gabriel, Alexander, Leonor, Nicholas and Adrienne was born as ”H.R.H” and recived the Seraphim before they had their ”H.R.H-prefix” and status removed... This child will have nothing removed as he or she will never be an ”H.R.H”, and thus not be eligible for the Royal Orders until the change in the constitution has taken place.

The only swedish royals who has had the ”Order of the Seraphim” taken away from them were 2 of the uncles of the current King, Prince Sigvard and Prince Carl Johan, when they had morganatic marriages... They were restored to the Order of the Polar Star by their father King Gustaf VI Adolf after his accession but not to the Seraphim.
  #29  
Old 12-11-2020, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans-Rickard View Post
It is a misunderstanding that they had their titles removed. The only thing removed was their ”H.R.H-prefix” and thus their status as a Member of the Swedish Royal House. Their titles are

Alexander, Prince of Sweden, Duke of Södermanland.

Gabriel, Prince of Sweden, Duke of Dalarna.

I think the opposite.

The King's sisters who were taken out of the Royal House (by marriage) lost their title of Princess of Sweden. In the Court Calendar Princess Birgitta has the title "Princess of Sweden", whereas Princesses Margaretha, Désirée and Christina do not.

To be consistent, I don't see why it should be different for Prince Alexander and Prince Gabriel.

The "of Sweden" title was removed from their biographical entries at the court's website when the changes were announced, as mentioned in these posts:


Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyFinn View Post
According to the updated court website they are not prince/princess of Sweden:
Children - Sveriges Kungahus
Oscar's biography
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Exactly. The title of "Prinsessa av Sverige" as well as the style "HKH" have been removed now. Here is the new entry for Princess Leonore's bio at the Court's website

Quote:
Prinsessan Leonore

Prinsessan Leonore Lilian Maria föddes den 20 februari 2014. Prinsessan är Hertiginna av Gotland. Prinsessan Leonore döptes i Drottningholms slottskyrka den 8 juni 2014.


Compare that to Oscar's entry for example.

Quote:

H.K.H. Prins Oscar


Oscar Carl Olof, Prins av Sverige, Hertig av Skåne, föddes den 2 mars 2016 som andra barn till Kronprinsessan och Prins Daniel.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans-Rickard View Post
Regarding Coat of arms, every Knight (or if female Member) of the Royal Order of the Seraphim have their own personal coat of arms. [...]
Of course, but we were speaking about the royal coat of arms, not coats of arms generally. Ordinary members of the orders bear their personal coat of arms, not the Swedish royal coat of arms.

The law (post #23) only mentions members of the Royal House being eligible for the royal coat of arms, as far as I can see.
  #30  
Old 12-11-2020, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
I think the opposite.

The King's sisters who were taken out of the Royal House (by marriage) lost their title of Princess of Sweden. In the Court Calendar Princess Birgitta has the title "Princess of Sweden", whereas Princesses Margaretha, Désirée and Christina do not.

To be consistent, I don't see why it should be different for Prince Alexander and Prince Gabriel.

The "of Sweden" title was removed from their biographical entries at the court's website when the changes were announced, as mentioned in these posts:












Of course, but we were speaking about the royal coat of arms, not coats of arms generally. Ordinary members of the orders bear their personal coat of arms, not the Swedish royal coat of arms.

The law (post #23) only mentions members of the Royal House being eligible for the royal coat of arms, as far as I can see.
I will e-mail the people of the information department and ask about this.

I am not insisting that i am right - but i want to have it straight what’s right and what’s wrong. Otherwise we can speculate and debate this in all eternity.
  #31  
Old 12-11-2020, 11:18 PM
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Congratulations to Carl-Phillip, Sofia and their sons with this happy news!
  #32  
Old 12-12-2020, 02:54 AM
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Joyous news! The happiest days are when a baby is born.
  #33  
Old 12-12-2020, 04:10 AM
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Congratulations to Princess Sofia, Prince Carl Philip, and their families!
  #34  
Old 12-12-2020, 09:33 AM
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Congratulations to Prince Carl Philip and Princess Sofia. I hope it is a girl, a sister to Prince Alexander and Prince Gabriel.
  #35  
Old 12-12-2020, 10:11 AM
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Alexander looks like Carl Philip and Gabriel is a Sofia mini me. I wonder what this baby will look like maybe a mix of the two? How exciting!
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  #36  
Old 12-12-2020, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by carlota View Post
wow, i wasn't expecting it but it looks like CP&S are very doting parents and enjoy that role so not surprising. we saw them last in late october in their visit to their duchy and sofia wasn't showing back then. she may have been a 4/5 or so months pregnant given the dates.

it is a bit worrying that sofia caught COVID during the first trimester of pregnancy.



i believe you may mean november 26th, as on october 28th they visited Karlstad.

I just looked at the fashion of Sofia on that visit where she was wearing that nice coat, black top and light skirt. I hadn't seen the picture of her without the coat sitting down and she definitely looks 4 months pregnant!
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Old 12-12-2020, 05:53 PM
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The child will be the 1t grandchild of the king to be born after the change of titles in October 2019.
  #38  
Old 12-12-2020, 06:16 PM
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Congratulations to Princess Sofia and Prince Carl Philip! A lovely surprise.
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  #39  
Old 12-13-2020, 04:21 AM
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A third advent greeting from the Prince family. She barely looks pregnant. Seems like she's one those lucky ones who truly flourish during a pregnancy.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CIu24o8n...=121u5xas1jzew
  #40  
Old 12-13-2020, 05:13 AM
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Congratulations to Princess Sofia and Prince Carl Philip! A lovely surprise.
Yes it was indeed and some good news at the end of the year.
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